This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Enver Hoxha article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Enver Hoxha was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on January 11, 2012, January 11, 2015, January 11, 2016, January 11, 2018, and January 11, 2021. |
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|
I got rid of "He is criticised for a series of political repressions which included the establishment and use of forced labour camps, extrajudicial killings and executions that targeted and eliminated dissidents, a large number of which were carried out by the Sigurimi secret police." because there has been no citation dince September of 2020
As noted, this article has nothing about his personal life.
More than half is hagiography of his achievements and would more appropriately appear in an article about the communist period history of Albania.
That said a lot (most) of 'information' in the article is laughable and quite obvious propaganda.
I think any source published before the fall of communism has to be treated with incredible scepticism. Is the Kim Il Sung wiki article based on current North Korean propaganga? I don't think so. Is the Hitler article based on 1944 Nazi propaganda? Nope. This article is however half sourced from communist era tosh and soaked with ideology.
Communist era statistics are basically completely useless, such as the ludicrous claim that syphilis was completely eliminated. Mortality 37% lower than in the rest of Europe? Yes, very believable.
Oh and Albania is responsible for China's UN seat? Rubbish.
Another piece of fantastic information sourced from something called 'Pollo and Puto, The History of Albania, p. 280.' - Albania was the world's first completely electrified country, achieving this 15 years before planned (wonderful turn of propaganda there). I guess the UK , USA and Western Europe were using gas lights in 1970.
-- 93.182.154.61 ( talk) 11:52, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
First off, not much is known about his personal life. You need to go through all sorts of sources (including his own memoirs, of which relevant parts in regards to this subject aren't in English) if you want to get a comprehensive look at his early life. Thus Bernd J. Fischer points out in Balkan Strongmen (p. 241), "Not much is known of his early life, expect what he himself tells us." Secondly, whatever you may think of those statistics, you're free to provide alternative statistics for comparison or sources which dispute their legitimacy. Thirdly, the electricity claim is sourced in various works. The point was that it was complete electrification, that even the most remote villages had access to it and, as Elez Biberaj notes (in a 1990 book, and Biberaj is far from being an apologist, much less a communist), Albania actually began exporting electricity to neighboring countries. I am also aware that the footnotes are rather clumsily assembled. Fourthly, Albania was the country that continuously agitated for the PRC to have a seat in the UN and was, in fact, the country which proposed the resolution to make it possible. I do plan on day to substantially expand the article. -- Mrdie ( talk) 15:41, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
The article hasn't nothing about the family of this communist. He had wife and sons. Agre22 ( talk) 22:06, 20 September 2009 (UTC)agre22
What was Enver Hoxha's Sex life like? I heard a rumor he had multiple partners along with his wife.-- 172.129.211.92 ( talk) 02:49, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article talkpage is for discussing the article, not answering questions or engaging in debates. In any case, there were rumors that Hoxha was either bisexual or homosexual, backed up with rather spurious-sounding allegations set forth by Ilir Bulka, Hoxha's private secretary from 1973-1980 in Il Messaggero as noted in Owen Pearson's Albania in the Twentieth Century, A History: Volume III: Albania as Dictatorship and Democracy, 1945-99, p. 649. There are also other books that allege Hoxha had homosexual encounters while studying in Paris. Arshi Pipa apparently backed the rumors, and supposedly Kadare "knows" about them too (though Kadare denies ever making such claims and rebuked Pipa). Since this article lacks a "private life" section, and since such things remain rumors not really substantiated by anything, I doubt it'd be encyclopedic to include them. -- Mrdie ( talk) 07:16, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
As a result of autarchy, Albania had a minimal foreign debt. This makes no sense to me. It would require equating a communist system of government, with autarchy (which I doubt holds water). Furthermore, I don't see how autarchy or communism of themselves would guarantee any particular level of foreign debt. Rob Burbidge ( talk) 15:29, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
It's meant to say that because of autarchy the Albanians (who were almost universally seen as requiring heavy foreign aid to survive) had very little debt. You may reword it if you wish. -- Mrdie ( talk) 14:47, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for clarification. I think that it depends on the interpretation of Autarchy. If the "self rule" applies to the state, it makes sense. I had interpreted "self rule" in the article to apply to individuals, which is closer to the current wikipedia definition of the term. I'll change to this to "economic self-sufficiency" which seems clearer. Rob Burbidge ( talk) 10:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I know this is a sort of old discussion, but I can't help thinking that the intended word was autarky rather than autarchy, as autarky is "the quality of being self-sufficient". I'm not sure if it would be better to change the way it is now, but it would certainly be informative. ChristopherGregory ( talk) 03:23, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi. The sound file containing a smaple of the pronounciation of the name is corrupt. However the link just below works just fine. -- Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 22:22, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Xtzou ( Talk) 22:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I am reviewing this article and will be adding comments. In general, the article is very well written. However, there are some problems.
Thanks!
Xtzou ( Talk) 22:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Note which sections lack references, please. I will address current "citation needed" ones soon. -- Mrdie ( talk) 01:49, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Xtzou ( Talk) 13:54, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
I am currently too busy to do anything more than add references, for now. I will, however, address the issues you've pointed out. -- Mrdie ( talk) 07:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
I have done quite a bit of copy editing on this article. The editor has said that he does not have time to address the remaining issues, so I must fail the article. I urge that the issues be addressed and the article be renominated. Xtzou ( Talk) 17:34, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Speaks volumes that the tone and content of this entire article appears to have been dictated via the talk page by a Polish anti-communist subsequently banned for sockpuppetry. Perhaps when Wikipedia reflects anything other than the establishment, pro-market version of history it may be considered a genuine educational resource.
DublinDilettante ( talk) 20:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Really? Besides the "Human Rights" section I'd say he had next to no impact. I wrote about 90% of the article. I actually one day plan to significantly expand the article as well, and I'm not exactly a "pro-market" person. -- Mrdie ( talk) 04:54, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
The sentence "All Albanians were required to obtain permits for the ownership of cars (which did not fall under private property[73]), refrigerators and typewriters among other things." doesn't seem to belong here. The implication being that owning a car is a human right. Perhaps it might be of worth (with some more explanation) at Socialist People's Republic of Albania or Fundamentals of Marxism–Leninism, but it doesn't seem to belong in this article at all, so I am removing it. -- Thehalfone ( talk) 09:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 22:57, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Enver Hoxha. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
How come this article doesn't have a section dedicated to his legacy or contemporary assessments of his rule? Don't we always have something like that for articles about important historical figures? Charles Essie ( talk) 02:48, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
I've removed the recent problematic addition of the "Category:Persecution by atheists" from this article as inappropriate and unsupported by reliable sources. The category misleads our readers by implying that persecution was inflicted because the persecutors were atheists (people who do not believe in gods), which is nonsensical. Atheism has no goal, creed or mission; it is merely the absence of belief in deities. While reliable sources say there has been persecution by totalitarian dictators and regimes, and communist regimes, and anti-clerical movements, and some of these even maintained a stance of " state atheism", there is no causal relationship between atheism and persecution of religious individuals. We already have more appropriate and accurate categories for this kind of persecution: Category:Anti-religious campaign in the Soviet Union, Category:Anti-clericalism, Category:Persecution by communists, etc. Articles asserting causal persecution by a lack of belief have been deleted in the past. Is there a reliable source conveying that persecution was a result of atheism, rather than the result of a dictator or communist regime trying to suppress religion? Xenophrenic ( talk) 16:41, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia has many categories, combining two or more attributes, that aren't correlated. For example Category:LGBT musicians from Canada . Clearly readers aren't likely to be misled into thinking that any one of those things is the cause and any other the effect. Given that the persecuted are being targeted for religious reasons, rather than political, it seems logical to focus on the atheism, rather than the communism. Either way, all that is necessary is that reliable sources confirm that there was persecution by an atheist. Steve Lowther ( talk) 13:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
This article is strongly bias against the subject, including a lot of Cold War-era propaganda. Most problematically, it takes the subjective stance that Hoxha's religious policy was a bad thing. He managed to stamp out anachronistic religious sectarianism and to the best of his ability removed the Abrahamic cults from public life. To say that was a bad thing, citing "human rights", is to actively favour reaction. Claíomh Solais ( talk) 23:03, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Enver Hoxha. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:58, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
'The entire population' were assembled (in Tirana's largest square) - of the city, the country or what? Jackiespeel ( talk) 09:08, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
Seems legit. The reference to this staged spontaneous grief outpouring is from a book called “The Last Days of Stalin” by Yale University Press. Berehinia ( talk) 00:34, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:22, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:22, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:23, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
At more than 10,000 words in its present, partially edited form, this article remains grossly bloated – much more detailed than its relatively minor historical subject merits.
I attempted to copy-edit the text, but got only about halfway through (4,000 words as edited).
I hope that some other disinterested (not uninterested) editor versed in Eastern European and Soviet history, and a native speaker of English, will take on a total rewrite of the article, holding its entire length to 2,000 to 3,000 words, as would be appropriate for English Wikipedia.
Barring that, the article should be nominated for deletion.
I've had enough! – Sca ( talk) 19:17, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
The long standing version of the lead sentence of this article described Hoxha as "an Albanian communist revolutionary and statesman who served as the First Secretary of the Party of Labour of Albania, from 1941 until his death in 1985." Recently some have been swapping "revolutionary" for "dictator", such as with this edit. I believe labeling him both a dictator and statesman is redundant and POV.
It should be noted that the lead sentences of the Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong articles are similar to the long standing version of this article, with Stalin being described as "a Georgian revolutionary and Soviet political leader who governed the Soviet Union from 1924 until his death in 1953," and Mao "a Chinese communist revolutionary who was the founding father of the People's Republic of China, which he ruled as the chairman of the Chinese Communist Party from the establishment of the PRC in 1949 until his death in 1976." Note the absense of highly POV terms like "dictator or "totalitarian". While some historians and commentators have described them as such, the apparent consensus is to omit such language from the lead, ostensibly in order to adhere to WP:NPOV.
Using both of these articles as examples, I think the long standing version of this article should be restored, and POV language removed.-- C.J. Griffin ( talk) 15:55, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:08, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Some sentences say 1941 others say 1943. Which is it? Erinius ( talk) 10:10, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 11:07, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
I've reverted this removal of content from the first sentence in the lead section. This material (1) is very well cited (Cambridge Univ. Press-published book) and (2) seems to accurately describe the content that follows at a high level (which is the function of a lead section). What's the problem with this? Pinging FierakuiVërtet and Thenightaway. Neutrality talk 04:34, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
The claim that Enver Pasha is the namesake of Enver Hoxha is only supported by a source that imitates the popular Vox_(website). It does not cite sources, it does not claim to dissipate academic knowledge. The expertise and reliability of the author of that piece, Ibrahim Resid, are dubious at best because no information other than his name is provided. It might as well be an alias.
The source, tr:Albayrak_Medya_Grubu, Albayrak_Group is known to have close ties with the current ruling party, AKP. Their editorial independence is questionable.
Until a better source is presented, I will remove that piece of information.
Cheers! 78c1HGxb6d ( talk) 19:28, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
In the article lead, it states that Hoxha became First Secretary of the Party of Labour in 1943, but in the infobox it says he became First Secretary in 1941 at it's creation. Which one is correct? 1bcdbackup ( talk) 19:33, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Enver Hoxha’s ideology has always been Marxism above nationalism. Nationalism was more of a tool utilized to repress the populace by giving them a veneer of perceived sense of identity, but in actuality Hoxha’s regime was firstly a Marxist one, not a nationalist one. He fought the nationalists during world war 2 and won over them after the Germans left Albania in 1944. Also if Hoxha were truly a nationalist he wouldn’t have discriminated against people’s personal religious choices or the religious clergy.
In addition, Enver Hoxha wasn’t a nationalist in the traditional sense because he also gave back Kosovo to Yugoslavia which contained an ethnic Albanian majority and largely ignored their plight for several decades. He also wrote books and articles rejecting ethnic chauvinism. Saturnalia04 ( talk) 14:42, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
Enver Hoxha was a nationalist, communist Albanian politician...However this may not be clear to the reader. I believe this is why the Italian encyclopedia Treccani refers to Hoxha and Ceaușescu just as
uomo politico (politician man)in the very first word of their respective pages. Moreover, his adherence to Marxism-Leninism is already mentioned later in the lead section. So what are you trying to do besides giving him a etiquette? FierakuiVërtet ( talk) 13:07, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
uomo politicofor many politicians of that time. However, this is still proof that labels given in the very first line of the article may not be adequate to describe these politicians. FierakuiVërtet ( talk) 13:13, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
This seems to be a reasonable sourced description of him. Cherry picked examples of other leaders are not a good reason to remove it here, especially when at least one of those articles, Stalin, does in fact use the description dictator in the lead 37.245.244.108 ( talk) 19:16, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Enver Hoxha article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Enver Hoxha was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on January 11, 2012, January 11, 2015, January 11, 2016, January 11, 2018, and January 11, 2021. |
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|
I got rid of "He is criticised for a series of political repressions which included the establishment and use of forced labour camps, extrajudicial killings and executions that targeted and eliminated dissidents, a large number of which were carried out by the Sigurimi secret police." because there has been no citation dince September of 2020
As noted, this article has nothing about his personal life.
More than half is hagiography of his achievements and would more appropriately appear in an article about the communist period history of Albania.
That said a lot (most) of 'information' in the article is laughable and quite obvious propaganda.
I think any source published before the fall of communism has to be treated with incredible scepticism. Is the Kim Il Sung wiki article based on current North Korean propaganga? I don't think so. Is the Hitler article based on 1944 Nazi propaganda? Nope. This article is however half sourced from communist era tosh and soaked with ideology.
Communist era statistics are basically completely useless, such as the ludicrous claim that syphilis was completely eliminated. Mortality 37% lower than in the rest of Europe? Yes, very believable.
Oh and Albania is responsible for China's UN seat? Rubbish.
Another piece of fantastic information sourced from something called 'Pollo and Puto, The History of Albania, p. 280.' - Albania was the world's first completely electrified country, achieving this 15 years before planned (wonderful turn of propaganda there). I guess the UK , USA and Western Europe were using gas lights in 1970.
-- 93.182.154.61 ( talk) 11:52, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
First off, not much is known about his personal life. You need to go through all sorts of sources (including his own memoirs, of which relevant parts in regards to this subject aren't in English) if you want to get a comprehensive look at his early life. Thus Bernd J. Fischer points out in Balkan Strongmen (p. 241), "Not much is known of his early life, expect what he himself tells us." Secondly, whatever you may think of those statistics, you're free to provide alternative statistics for comparison or sources which dispute their legitimacy. Thirdly, the electricity claim is sourced in various works. The point was that it was complete electrification, that even the most remote villages had access to it and, as Elez Biberaj notes (in a 1990 book, and Biberaj is far from being an apologist, much less a communist), Albania actually began exporting electricity to neighboring countries. I am also aware that the footnotes are rather clumsily assembled. Fourthly, Albania was the country that continuously agitated for the PRC to have a seat in the UN and was, in fact, the country which proposed the resolution to make it possible. I do plan on day to substantially expand the article. -- Mrdie ( talk) 15:41, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
The article hasn't nothing about the family of this communist. He had wife and sons. Agre22 ( talk) 22:06, 20 September 2009 (UTC)agre22
What was Enver Hoxha's Sex life like? I heard a rumor he had multiple partners along with his wife.-- 172.129.211.92 ( talk) 02:49, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article talkpage is for discussing the article, not answering questions or engaging in debates. In any case, there were rumors that Hoxha was either bisexual or homosexual, backed up with rather spurious-sounding allegations set forth by Ilir Bulka, Hoxha's private secretary from 1973-1980 in Il Messaggero as noted in Owen Pearson's Albania in the Twentieth Century, A History: Volume III: Albania as Dictatorship and Democracy, 1945-99, p. 649. There are also other books that allege Hoxha had homosexual encounters while studying in Paris. Arshi Pipa apparently backed the rumors, and supposedly Kadare "knows" about them too (though Kadare denies ever making such claims and rebuked Pipa). Since this article lacks a "private life" section, and since such things remain rumors not really substantiated by anything, I doubt it'd be encyclopedic to include them. -- Mrdie ( talk) 07:16, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
As a result of autarchy, Albania had a minimal foreign debt. This makes no sense to me. It would require equating a communist system of government, with autarchy (which I doubt holds water). Furthermore, I don't see how autarchy or communism of themselves would guarantee any particular level of foreign debt. Rob Burbidge ( talk) 15:29, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
It's meant to say that because of autarchy the Albanians (who were almost universally seen as requiring heavy foreign aid to survive) had very little debt. You may reword it if you wish. -- Mrdie ( talk) 14:47, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for clarification. I think that it depends on the interpretation of Autarchy. If the "self rule" applies to the state, it makes sense. I had interpreted "self rule" in the article to apply to individuals, which is closer to the current wikipedia definition of the term. I'll change to this to "economic self-sufficiency" which seems clearer. Rob Burbidge ( talk) 10:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I know this is a sort of old discussion, but I can't help thinking that the intended word was autarky rather than autarchy, as autarky is "the quality of being self-sufficient". I'm not sure if it would be better to change the way it is now, but it would certainly be informative. ChristopherGregory ( talk) 03:23, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi. The sound file containing a smaple of the pronounciation of the name is corrupt. However the link just below works just fine. -- Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 22:22, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Xtzou ( Talk) 22:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I am reviewing this article and will be adding comments. In general, the article is very well written. However, there are some problems.
Thanks!
Xtzou ( Talk) 22:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Note which sections lack references, please. I will address current "citation needed" ones soon. -- Mrdie ( talk) 01:49, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Xtzou ( Talk) 13:54, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
I am currently too busy to do anything more than add references, for now. I will, however, address the issues you've pointed out. -- Mrdie ( talk) 07:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
I have done quite a bit of copy editing on this article. The editor has said that he does not have time to address the remaining issues, so I must fail the article. I urge that the issues be addressed and the article be renominated. Xtzou ( Talk) 17:34, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Speaks volumes that the tone and content of this entire article appears to have been dictated via the talk page by a Polish anti-communist subsequently banned for sockpuppetry. Perhaps when Wikipedia reflects anything other than the establishment, pro-market version of history it may be considered a genuine educational resource.
DublinDilettante ( talk) 20:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Really? Besides the "Human Rights" section I'd say he had next to no impact. I wrote about 90% of the article. I actually one day plan to significantly expand the article as well, and I'm not exactly a "pro-market" person. -- Mrdie ( talk) 04:54, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
The sentence "All Albanians were required to obtain permits for the ownership of cars (which did not fall under private property[73]), refrigerators and typewriters among other things." doesn't seem to belong here. The implication being that owning a car is a human right. Perhaps it might be of worth (with some more explanation) at Socialist People's Republic of Albania or Fundamentals of Marxism–Leninism, but it doesn't seem to belong in this article at all, so I am removing it. -- Thehalfone ( talk) 09:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 22:57, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Enver Hoxha. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
How come this article doesn't have a section dedicated to his legacy or contemporary assessments of his rule? Don't we always have something like that for articles about important historical figures? Charles Essie ( talk) 02:48, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
I've removed the recent problematic addition of the "Category:Persecution by atheists" from this article as inappropriate and unsupported by reliable sources. The category misleads our readers by implying that persecution was inflicted because the persecutors were atheists (people who do not believe in gods), which is nonsensical. Atheism has no goal, creed or mission; it is merely the absence of belief in deities. While reliable sources say there has been persecution by totalitarian dictators and regimes, and communist regimes, and anti-clerical movements, and some of these even maintained a stance of " state atheism", there is no causal relationship between atheism and persecution of religious individuals. We already have more appropriate and accurate categories for this kind of persecution: Category:Anti-religious campaign in the Soviet Union, Category:Anti-clericalism, Category:Persecution by communists, etc. Articles asserting causal persecution by a lack of belief have been deleted in the past. Is there a reliable source conveying that persecution was a result of atheism, rather than the result of a dictator or communist regime trying to suppress religion? Xenophrenic ( talk) 16:41, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia has many categories, combining two or more attributes, that aren't correlated. For example Category:LGBT musicians from Canada . Clearly readers aren't likely to be misled into thinking that any one of those things is the cause and any other the effect. Given that the persecuted are being targeted for religious reasons, rather than political, it seems logical to focus on the atheism, rather than the communism. Either way, all that is necessary is that reliable sources confirm that there was persecution by an atheist. Steve Lowther ( talk) 13:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
This article is strongly bias against the subject, including a lot of Cold War-era propaganda. Most problematically, it takes the subjective stance that Hoxha's religious policy was a bad thing. He managed to stamp out anachronistic religious sectarianism and to the best of his ability removed the Abrahamic cults from public life. To say that was a bad thing, citing "human rights", is to actively favour reaction. Claíomh Solais ( talk) 23:03, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Enver Hoxha. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:58, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
'The entire population' were assembled (in Tirana's largest square) - of the city, the country or what? Jackiespeel ( talk) 09:08, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
Seems legit. The reference to this staged spontaneous grief outpouring is from a book called “The Last Days of Stalin” by Yale University Press. Berehinia ( talk) 00:34, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:22, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:22, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:23, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
At more than 10,000 words in its present, partially edited form, this article remains grossly bloated – much more detailed than its relatively minor historical subject merits.
I attempted to copy-edit the text, but got only about halfway through (4,000 words as edited).
I hope that some other disinterested (not uninterested) editor versed in Eastern European and Soviet history, and a native speaker of English, will take on a total rewrite of the article, holding its entire length to 2,000 to 3,000 words, as would be appropriate for English Wikipedia.
Barring that, the article should be nominated for deletion.
I've had enough! – Sca ( talk) 19:17, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
The long standing version of the lead sentence of this article described Hoxha as "an Albanian communist revolutionary and statesman who served as the First Secretary of the Party of Labour of Albania, from 1941 until his death in 1985." Recently some have been swapping "revolutionary" for "dictator", such as with this edit. I believe labeling him both a dictator and statesman is redundant and POV.
It should be noted that the lead sentences of the Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong articles are similar to the long standing version of this article, with Stalin being described as "a Georgian revolutionary and Soviet political leader who governed the Soviet Union from 1924 until his death in 1953," and Mao "a Chinese communist revolutionary who was the founding father of the People's Republic of China, which he ruled as the chairman of the Chinese Communist Party from the establishment of the PRC in 1949 until his death in 1976." Note the absense of highly POV terms like "dictator or "totalitarian". While some historians and commentators have described them as such, the apparent consensus is to omit such language from the lead, ostensibly in order to adhere to WP:NPOV.
Using both of these articles as examples, I think the long standing version of this article should be restored, and POV language removed.-- C.J. Griffin ( talk) 15:55, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:08, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Some sentences say 1941 others say 1943. Which is it? Erinius ( talk) 10:10, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 11:07, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
I've reverted this removal of content from the first sentence in the lead section. This material (1) is very well cited (Cambridge Univ. Press-published book) and (2) seems to accurately describe the content that follows at a high level (which is the function of a lead section). What's the problem with this? Pinging FierakuiVërtet and Thenightaway. Neutrality talk 04:34, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
The claim that Enver Pasha is the namesake of Enver Hoxha is only supported by a source that imitates the popular Vox_(website). It does not cite sources, it does not claim to dissipate academic knowledge. The expertise and reliability of the author of that piece, Ibrahim Resid, are dubious at best because no information other than his name is provided. It might as well be an alias.
The source, tr:Albayrak_Medya_Grubu, Albayrak_Group is known to have close ties with the current ruling party, AKP. Their editorial independence is questionable.
Until a better source is presented, I will remove that piece of information.
Cheers! 78c1HGxb6d ( talk) 19:28, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
In the article lead, it states that Hoxha became First Secretary of the Party of Labour in 1943, but in the infobox it says he became First Secretary in 1941 at it's creation. Which one is correct? 1bcdbackup ( talk) 19:33, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Enver Hoxha’s ideology has always been Marxism above nationalism. Nationalism was more of a tool utilized to repress the populace by giving them a veneer of perceived sense of identity, but in actuality Hoxha’s regime was firstly a Marxist one, not a nationalist one. He fought the nationalists during world war 2 and won over them after the Germans left Albania in 1944. Also if Hoxha were truly a nationalist he wouldn’t have discriminated against people’s personal religious choices or the religious clergy.
In addition, Enver Hoxha wasn’t a nationalist in the traditional sense because he also gave back Kosovo to Yugoslavia which contained an ethnic Albanian majority and largely ignored their plight for several decades. He also wrote books and articles rejecting ethnic chauvinism. Saturnalia04 ( talk) 14:42, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
Enver Hoxha was a nationalist, communist Albanian politician...However this may not be clear to the reader. I believe this is why the Italian encyclopedia Treccani refers to Hoxha and Ceaușescu just as
uomo politico (politician man)in the very first word of their respective pages. Moreover, his adherence to Marxism-Leninism is already mentioned later in the lead section. So what are you trying to do besides giving him a etiquette? FierakuiVërtet ( talk) 13:07, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
uomo politicofor many politicians of that time. However, this is still proof that labels given in the very first line of the article may not be adequate to describe these politicians. FierakuiVërtet ( talk) 13:13, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
This seems to be a reasonable sourced description of him. Cherry picked examples of other leaders are not a good reason to remove it here, especially when at least one of those articles, Stalin, does in fact use the description dictator in the lead 37.245.244.108 ( talk) 19:16, 27 February 2024 (UTC)