This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Entheogen article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() Archives ( Index) |
This page is archived by
ClueBot III.
|
I added alcohol (but it was actually already listed), then @ Skyerise: removed it (actually removed much more than alcohol] 94.255.152.53 ( talk) 18:46, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
@ Skyerise: "Other well-known entheogens used by Mexican cultures include the alcoholic Aztec sacrament pulque" was added in March 2015 by @ Rjwilmsi:. Back then the section was called Controversial entheogens. Should we restore that section? -- 94.255.152.53 ( talk) 18:57, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
...the Indo-Europeans encountered wine, the entheogen of Dionysus... The Indo-European proto-Greeks "recognized it as the entheogen of Zeus... [and preferred it because] ... the entheogen was now cultivable."Another section specifically links mead as an entheogen as well:
Fermented honey, known in Northern Europe as mead, was an early entheogen. Trying to draw a distinction between the altered state produced through alcohol and those achieved through non-fermented substances is not supported by the sources. Unless someone can provide an equally strong RS that refutes Staples & Ruck by stating that alcohol is not an entheogen, I feel that the above statements are WP:OR and that anon-IP's edit should be restored. Cheers, Last1in ( talk) 13:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Noticed some lede changes flipping back and forth, with recommendation to discuss here. Please note, I did not make the changes or revert them, but would like to be involved with the discussion...
It should be duly noted that the term psychedelic was chosen as a more specific replacement term for hallucinogen (somewhat excluding deliriants and dissociatives). It should also be noted that the term entheogen was chosen as an alternative to psychedelic for the following specific purposes:
Thus, the term "entheogenic" is more weighted towards the intention, purpose, and method of use of a substance, than to its pharmacology. It is, however, typically limited to substances which have an established, historical ceremonial use, as well as those which tend to induce visionary state, especially one which could be classified as a state of Samadhi, Nirvana, or Moksha. Because of this, it is not correct to assume that all psychedelic drugs are entheogens, and it is also not correct to assume that all entheogens are psychedelic drugs. Most plant hallucinogens are considered to be entheogens, but certain psychoactive plants, such as Nicotiana rustica are also considered to be entheogens. Synthetic psychedelic drugs such as 2C-B are not typically considered to be entheogens. Thoric ( talk) 20:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Entheogen article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() Archives ( Index) |
This page is archived by
ClueBot III.
|
I added alcohol (but it was actually already listed), then @ Skyerise: removed it (actually removed much more than alcohol] 94.255.152.53 ( talk) 18:46, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
@ Skyerise: "Other well-known entheogens used by Mexican cultures include the alcoholic Aztec sacrament pulque" was added in March 2015 by @ Rjwilmsi:. Back then the section was called Controversial entheogens. Should we restore that section? -- 94.255.152.53 ( talk) 18:57, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
...the Indo-Europeans encountered wine, the entheogen of Dionysus... The Indo-European proto-Greeks "recognized it as the entheogen of Zeus... [and preferred it because] ... the entheogen was now cultivable."Another section specifically links mead as an entheogen as well:
Fermented honey, known in Northern Europe as mead, was an early entheogen. Trying to draw a distinction between the altered state produced through alcohol and those achieved through non-fermented substances is not supported by the sources. Unless someone can provide an equally strong RS that refutes Staples & Ruck by stating that alcohol is not an entheogen, I feel that the above statements are WP:OR and that anon-IP's edit should be restored. Cheers, Last1in ( talk) 13:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Noticed some lede changes flipping back and forth, with recommendation to discuss here. Please note, I did not make the changes or revert them, but would like to be involved with the discussion...
It should be duly noted that the term psychedelic was chosen as a more specific replacement term for hallucinogen (somewhat excluding deliriants and dissociatives). It should also be noted that the term entheogen was chosen as an alternative to psychedelic for the following specific purposes:
Thus, the term "entheogenic" is more weighted towards the intention, purpose, and method of use of a substance, than to its pharmacology. It is, however, typically limited to substances which have an established, historical ceremonial use, as well as those which tend to induce visionary state, especially one which could be classified as a state of Samadhi, Nirvana, or Moksha. Because of this, it is not correct to assume that all psychedelic drugs are entheogens, and it is also not correct to assume that all entheogens are psychedelic drugs. Most plant hallucinogens are considered to be entheogens, but certain psychoactive plants, such as Nicotiana rustica are also considered to be entheogens. Synthetic psychedelic drugs such as 2C-B are not typically considered to be entheogens. Thoric ( talk) 20:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC)