I thought I would create a running list of Saturday leagues that we know exist, but don't know where to place in the pyramid. --
Balerion17:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)reply
This is getting unwieldy, especially because I have a bunch to add, so I am going to sort them by region, i.e. probable Step 5 that it ultimately leads to.
I think the WRL and WYL should be included. The Surrey County Intermediate League (West), currently listed, is another example of a level 11 league that does not have Step 7 status. Long-term the FA may be looking to merge the WRL and WYL, which is why neither currently have Step 7 status at the moment. But I think we should list them at level 11. As I said before, they do send clubs to higher levels. --
Balerion13:09, 1 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I'm going to be bold and add them in - there are a number of other examples of leagues which do appear in the table which don't actually have a formal promotion agreement but send teams up to a specific league occasionally. Talking to someone on the
Bristol Downs League's message board it appears that that league has only sent two teams up in about the last ten years, and one of them hadn't even won the league, they just applied to a higher league because they thought they were good enough for it. And we have the Downs League listed as being in the pyramid.... -
ChrisTheDude19:46, 2 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I Zingari Combination[8] - still seems to be going this season even though some sources say it merged with the Liverpool Combination to form the new Liverpool Premier League - not listed on thepyramid.info
The I Zingari Combination is still going, it was the I Zingari LEAGUE that merged with the Liverpool County Combination. The Combination was mainly for reserve sides - three of the four "first teams" in the Combination have transferred to the new league - Leyfields, Liobians and SacreCouer FP. Mexoc are still in the IZ Combination. I haven't checked properly if any of the other IZ Combination teams are now "first teams" - it looks like Chatsworth may be. I assume the IZ League and the IZ Combination were linked in some way, if not indeed two parts of the same whole. -
fchd18:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Far North
Carlisle & District League - probably doesn't exist "Northbank joined the Westmorland League in 2003 following the demise of the Carlisle & District League."
[9]
I believe the correct name is the Eskdale & Cleveland League (although I found Google results for both spellings), in which case
this article would appear to indicate that it's a Saturday league.....
ChrisTheDude10:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Wensleydale, Stokesley and Teesside would all undoubtedly fit under the larger umbrella of the Northern League and below that, possibly the Wearside League. I suspect the first two feed the Teesside, although I have nothing to back that up. --
Balerion01:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)reply
Another data point, Richmond Mavericks of the Teeside League have an 'A' team in the Wensleydale League. Note that unlike the south, in the north an 'A' team often means 2nd team rather than 3rd. --
Balerion01:06, 28 November 2006 (UTC)reply
I found this on
this team's site: "We joined the league (the
I Zingari League) this season (2002-3) after successfully navigating the Southport and District League - acheiving promotion but opting for the more challenging Liverpool set-up." This would suggest that the Southport League is indeed a Saturday league
ChrisTheDude09:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)reply
One team changing league does not imply a feeder relationship. That word should be kept for arrangements where a formal process exists. To imply anything else is
Original Research -
fchd11:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Hope Valley Amateur League[25] - Three Divisions, Premier, A and B. Contains reserve sides of Dronfield Town (Midland Regional Alliance) and also is current home of ex-Manchester League club Tintwistle Villa.
Lichfield City moved up from this league to the Midland Combination last summer, so it would presumably sit theoretically below that league..... --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
21:40, 17 January 2009 (UTC)reply
I've had a quick look through the tables for the London Commercial League since 1999 and the Hounslow League since 2001 and neither league seems to have sent anybody up to a higher league in all that time, so do they qualify to be in the pyramid? Or are they new feeder leagues to the Middx League with effect from this season.....?
ChrisTheDude07:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Bromley & District League[53] - has some KCL reserve sides, also has a reserve side of a South London Football Alliance Div 2 club...however that club also has an 'A' side in the SLFA Div 4
Of the above, the Bromley & District, Canterbury & District, Maidstone & District and Rochester & District Leagues and the South London Alliance all promoted teams to the KCL in 2008 --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
11:29, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Note, with the admission of Bideford reserves and Merton from the Kingsley League to the N Devon League, the N Devon statement regards the Kingsley League as the same standard as their Division One. -
fchd (
talk)
10:52, 15 June 2008 (UTC)reply
I have had an e-mail from the secretary of this league who states:
"Unfortunately no, we are not part of the pyramid. We are a "stand alone" League or Association run by the member clubs. Our clubs can independently if they wish (and some have) apply if they think they are good enough to join the Comb or West Mids League etc but there is not set "right" even if they win our Premier."
So does that make them a "theoretical" level 13 (or thereabouts) league.....?
(He does go on to note that they were formed in 1908 and are one of the longest running amateur leagues in the UK, so they might be worth an article anyway if I get some spare time....)
ChrisTheDude07:32, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, the Midland Football Combination extends a level further than the West Mids, so it would be a theoretical level 13 or 14, depending on which league. Sadly I think these theoretical ties are the norm for most leagues below step 7, with the exception of a few counties who have formed fairly ship-shape county pyramids. The Midlands region is a bit untidy at the moment - the Leics Senior League is Step 7, but effectively level 10. So does that make its feeders (Leics City League, Leicester & Dist, North Leics, Leics Comb) level 12 or level 13? We probably won't have a definitive answer until the FA finishes their reorganization of Step 7, which won't happen until they reorganize Step 5/6, which won't happen until they finish working on Step 4. Yikes. --
Balerion07:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
(cross-posted from the article's own talk page)
What league does this league feed into and what evidence is there that it sits at level 14? It's nowhere to be found on thepyramid.info.....
ChrisTheDude12:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
According to an email sent to me on November 3, 2005 by Bob Brunt, secretary of said league: "1. The League does not promote into the Somerset County League 2. There are no feed between any leagues in to the Perry Street League". So, the league isn't at level 14 0- it's a standalone league. Presumabnly the level 14 was based on an old information.
Tompw14:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
Cheers for the update, Tom, I figured if anyone knew it would be you :-) I'll take it off the table on the article then, and add it to the list above of "non-pyramid" leagues
ChrisTheDude14:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
I thought I would create a running list of Saturday leagues that we know exist, but don't know where to place in the pyramid. --
Balerion17:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)reply
This is getting unwieldy, especially because I have a bunch to add, so I am going to sort them by region, i.e. probable Step 5 that it ultimately leads to.
I think the WRL and WYL should be included. The Surrey County Intermediate League (West), currently listed, is another example of a level 11 league that does not have Step 7 status. Long-term the FA may be looking to merge the WRL and WYL, which is why neither currently have Step 7 status at the moment. But I think we should list them at level 11. As I said before, they do send clubs to higher levels. --
Balerion13:09, 1 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I'm going to be bold and add them in - there are a number of other examples of leagues which do appear in the table which don't actually have a formal promotion agreement but send teams up to a specific league occasionally. Talking to someone on the
Bristol Downs League's message board it appears that that league has only sent two teams up in about the last ten years, and one of them hadn't even won the league, they just applied to a higher league because they thought they were good enough for it. And we have the Downs League listed as being in the pyramid.... -
ChrisTheDude19:46, 2 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I Zingari Combination[8] - still seems to be going this season even though some sources say it merged with the Liverpool Combination to form the new Liverpool Premier League - not listed on thepyramid.info
The I Zingari Combination is still going, it was the I Zingari LEAGUE that merged with the Liverpool County Combination. The Combination was mainly for reserve sides - three of the four "first teams" in the Combination have transferred to the new league - Leyfields, Liobians and SacreCouer FP. Mexoc are still in the IZ Combination. I haven't checked properly if any of the other IZ Combination teams are now "first teams" - it looks like Chatsworth may be. I assume the IZ League and the IZ Combination were linked in some way, if not indeed two parts of the same whole. -
fchd18:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Far North
Carlisle & District League - probably doesn't exist "Northbank joined the Westmorland League in 2003 following the demise of the Carlisle & District League."
[9]
I believe the correct name is the Eskdale & Cleveland League (although I found Google results for both spellings), in which case
this article would appear to indicate that it's a Saturday league.....
ChrisTheDude10:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Wensleydale, Stokesley and Teesside would all undoubtedly fit under the larger umbrella of the Northern League and below that, possibly the Wearside League. I suspect the first two feed the Teesside, although I have nothing to back that up. --
Balerion01:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)reply
Another data point, Richmond Mavericks of the Teeside League have an 'A' team in the Wensleydale League. Note that unlike the south, in the north an 'A' team often means 2nd team rather than 3rd. --
Balerion01:06, 28 November 2006 (UTC)reply
I found this on
this team's site: "We joined the league (the
I Zingari League) this season (2002-3) after successfully navigating the Southport and District League - acheiving promotion but opting for the more challenging Liverpool set-up." This would suggest that the Southport League is indeed a Saturday league
ChrisTheDude09:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)reply
One team changing league does not imply a feeder relationship. That word should be kept for arrangements where a formal process exists. To imply anything else is
Original Research -
fchd11:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Hope Valley Amateur League[25] - Three Divisions, Premier, A and B. Contains reserve sides of Dronfield Town (Midland Regional Alliance) and also is current home of ex-Manchester League club Tintwistle Villa.
Lichfield City moved up from this league to the Midland Combination last summer, so it would presumably sit theoretically below that league..... --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
21:40, 17 January 2009 (UTC)reply
I've had a quick look through the tables for the London Commercial League since 1999 and the Hounslow League since 2001 and neither league seems to have sent anybody up to a higher league in all that time, so do they qualify to be in the pyramid? Or are they new feeder leagues to the Middx League with effect from this season.....?
ChrisTheDude07:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Bromley & District League[53] - has some KCL reserve sides, also has a reserve side of a South London Football Alliance Div 2 club...however that club also has an 'A' side in the SLFA Div 4
Of the above, the Bromley & District, Canterbury & District, Maidstone & District and Rochester & District Leagues and the South London Alliance all promoted teams to the KCL in 2008 --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
11:29, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Note, with the admission of Bideford reserves and Merton from the Kingsley League to the N Devon League, the N Devon statement regards the Kingsley League as the same standard as their Division One. -
fchd (
talk)
10:52, 15 June 2008 (UTC)reply
I have had an e-mail from the secretary of this league who states:
"Unfortunately no, we are not part of the pyramid. We are a "stand alone" League or Association run by the member clubs. Our clubs can independently if they wish (and some have) apply if they think they are good enough to join the Comb or West Mids League etc but there is not set "right" even if they win our Premier."
So does that make them a "theoretical" level 13 (or thereabouts) league.....?
(He does go on to note that they were formed in 1908 and are one of the longest running amateur leagues in the UK, so they might be worth an article anyway if I get some spare time....)
ChrisTheDude07:32, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, the Midland Football Combination extends a level further than the West Mids, so it would be a theoretical level 13 or 14, depending on which league. Sadly I think these theoretical ties are the norm for most leagues below step 7, with the exception of a few counties who have formed fairly ship-shape county pyramids. The Midlands region is a bit untidy at the moment - the Leics Senior League is Step 7, but effectively level 10. So does that make its feeders (Leics City League, Leicester & Dist, North Leics, Leics Comb) level 12 or level 13? We probably won't have a definitive answer until the FA finishes their reorganization of Step 7, which won't happen until they reorganize Step 5/6, which won't happen until they finish working on Step 4. Yikes. --
Balerion07:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
(cross-posted from the article's own talk page)
What league does this league feed into and what evidence is there that it sits at level 14? It's nowhere to be found on thepyramid.info.....
ChrisTheDude12:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
According to an email sent to me on November 3, 2005 by Bob Brunt, secretary of said league: "1. The League does not promote into the Somerset County League 2. There are no feed between any leagues in to the Perry Street League". So, the league isn't at level 14 0- it's a standalone league. Presumabnly the level 14 was based on an old information.
Tompw14:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
Cheers for the update, Tom, I figured if anyone knew it would be you :-) I'll take it off the table on the article then, and add it to the list above of "non-pyramid" leagues
ChrisTheDude14:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply