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As a sideline observer to the ongoing struggle between the English Shepherd Club and the UKC, I would like to point out that the choice of linking to the UKC standard instead of the ESC standard will NOT go down well. Up until a few years ago they were the same. Then the UKC broke an agreement with the ESC and required that the English Shepherd be shown in conformation. Since the English Shepherd is strictly a working dog, this led to a split between the ESC and the UKC. Since then the two standards have evolved in different directions. The UKC standard has evolved toward much stricter physical appearance and the ESC stardard toward more emphasis on work.
Although I didn't make the change to link to the ESC standard, I do support their position. I would strongly argue that linking solely to the UKC standard defintely expresses a POV. This is every bit as contentious as the Jack Russell Terrier and Border Collie disputes. I just reviewed those pages and note that the only links are to the "big" registeries. I would argue that is incorrect as the breed clubs existed for years without the "support" of the big registeries. Failure to link to the original breed club is a pov asserting that the big registeries are more legitimate than the original breed club, even when the original breed club registers more dogs of that breed than the big registeries.
The ESC/UKC case is less clear cut since they worked together more or less in harmony for decades. It has only been within the past few years that the UKC has demanded that English Shepherds be shown in conformation, thus creating the split between the ESC and the UKC. Still, one can readily argue that the ESC standard is every bit as legitimate as the UKC standard. For this reason I am going to include links to both. Clearly to leave out the UKC standard, as I would prefer to do, expresses a POV. Dsurber 06:06, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
I do not understand how you can label the "only majour registries" rule as POV. Is not your plight to have the working registries included equally so? What you must understand is that working and show strains in breeds can be very different, even you the point of contradicting each other.
You have already been invited to add a NPOV statement or paragraph into the article, if you were to do that, would that not help people understand the ESC more than simply sticking the link in a little box in the corner? Tekana 10:17, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
I agree with the previous comments. The policy that *only* major registries may appear in the key breed box on the upper right side of breed pages is a POV that pet dog / show dog registries are more important than the working dog registries. This policy is harmful to the preservation of dog breeds for their original purpose... as working dogs. 24.4.150.21 05:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Despite its name, the English Shepherd breed originates in the USA. The ES breed was mainly developed from dogs imported to the USA out of the landrace of collie/shepherd dogs that was once common in the UK. But the ES breed also incorporates breeds from other parts of the world, for example it's documented that Beauercon were mixed into the ES breed. The English Shepherd was not developed into a breed in the UK. It was developed into a breed to meet the needs of farmers on small farms in the eastern and midwestern states of the USA.
Numerous references for the American origin of the English Shepherd breed can be found, for example:
- In an article published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences entitled "Breed distribution and history of canine mdr1-1delta, a pharmacogenetic mutation that marks the emergence of breeds from the collie lineage" by Neff, et.al., the authors state "Thus, the ancestral population that produced mdr1-1delta was probably an admixed population of working sheepdogs. The ancestors of the Australian Shepherd, English Shepherd, and McNab also trace back to this ancestral population, roughly defined. Although these latter breeds were developed in North America in the 1900s, they were most likely derived from nondescript farm collies imported from Great Britain and Australia in the 1800s and early 1900s." PNAS August 10, 2004 Vol. 101 no. 32 11729 http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0402374101v1.pdf
- Linda Rorem's authoritative "Herding on the Web" site references "English Shepherd - An American Breed" http://www.herdingontheweb.com/dogs.htm
- the website of the largest club for the breed, the English Shepherd Club, lists the ES breed as "America's Heritage Farmdog" http://www.englishshepherd.org/ Sardog1 ( talk) 07:26, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I made some grammatical and clarity changes to the working dog section. - Gunnanmon ( talk) 06:26, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
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Resolved This issue has been resolved, and I have therefore removed the tag, if not already done. No further action is necessary.—
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I rewrote the entry somewhat to be more historically accurate. I also added some links which are helpful to casual readers. I restored a deleted photo and tweaked the caption a little to be more correct. I probably know or have met many of the ESC people so I will not be offended if any of you do some changes. I just ask that they be edits and not dumb reverts by trolling rollbackers (Trollbackers) and such. We need to police against that mob. 172.56.2.133 ( talk) 09:29, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. -- Tavix ( talk) 01:37, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
English Shepherd dog → English Shepherd – Shorter and unoccupied. -- MA SHAUN IX 21:04, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
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As a sideline observer to the ongoing struggle between the English Shepherd Club and the UKC, I would like to point out that the choice of linking to the UKC standard instead of the ESC standard will NOT go down well. Up until a few years ago they were the same. Then the UKC broke an agreement with the ESC and required that the English Shepherd be shown in conformation. Since the English Shepherd is strictly a working dog, this led to a split between the ESC and the UKC. Since then the two standards have evolved in different directions. The UKC standard has evolved toward much stricter physical appearance and the ESC stardard toward more emphasis on work.
Although I didn't make the change to link to the ESC standard, I do support their position. I would strongly argue that linking solely to the UKC standard defintely expresses a POV. This is every bit as contentious as the Jack Russell Terrier and Border Collie disputes. I just reviewed those pages and note that the only links are to the "big" registeries. I would argue that is incorrect as the breed clubs existed for years without the "support" of the big registeries. Failure to link to the original breed club is a pov asserting that the big registeries are more legitimate than the original breed club, even when the original breed club registers more dogs of that breed than the big registeries.
The ESC/UKC case is less clear cut since they worked together more or less in harmony for decades. It has only been within the past few years that the UKC has demanded that English Shepherds be shown in conformation, thus creating the split between the ESC and the UKC. Still, one can readily argue that the ESC standard is every bit as legitimate as the UKC standard. For this reason I am going to include links to both. Clearly to leave out the UKC standard, as I would prefer to do, expresses a POV. Dsurber 06:06, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
I do not understand how you can label the "only majour registries" rule as POV. Is not your plight to have the working registries included equally so? What you must understand is that working and show strains in breeds can be very different, even you the point of contradicting each other.
You have already been invited to add a NPOV statement or paragraph into the article, if you were to do that, would that not help people understand the ESC more than simply sticking the link in a little box in the corner? Tekana 10:17, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
I agree with the previous comments. The policy that *only* major registries may appear in the key breed box on the upper right side of breed pages is a POV that pet dog / show dog registries are more important than the working dog registries. This policy is harmful to the preservation of dog breeds for their original purpose... as working dogs. 24.4.150.21 05:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Despite its name, the English Shepherd breed originates in the USA. The ES breed was mainly developed from dogs imported to the USA out of the landrace of collie/shepherd dogs that was once common in the UK. But the ES breed also incorporates breeds from other parts of the world, for example it's documented that Beauercon were mixed into the ES breed. The English Shepherd was not developed into a breed in the UK. It was developed into a breed to meet the needs of farmers on small farms in the eastern and midwestern states of the USA.
Numerous references for the American origin of the English Shepherd breed can be found, for example:
- In an article published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences entitled "Breed distribution and history of canine mdr1-1delta, a pharmacogenetic mutation that marks the emergence of breeds from the collie lineage" by Neff, et.al., the authors state "Thus, the ancestral population that produced mdr1-1delta was probably an admixed population of working sheepdogs. The ancestors of the Australian Shepherd, English Shepherd, and McNab also trace back to this ancestral population, roughly defined. Although these latter breeds were developed in North America in the 1900s, they were most likely derived from nondescript farm collies imported from Great Britain and Australia in the 1800s and early 1900s." PNAS August 10, 2004 Vol. 101 no. 32 11729 http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0402374101v1.pdf
- Linda Rorem's authoritative "Herding on the Web" site references "English Shepherd - An American Breed" http://www.herdingontheweb.com/dogs.htm
- the website of the largest club for the breed, the English Shepherd Club, lists the ES breed as "America's Heritage Farmdog" http://www.englishshepherd.org/ Sardog1 ( talk) 07:26, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I made some grammatical and clarity changes to the working dog section. - Gunnanmon ( talk) 06:26, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\bthetrendystyle\.com\b
on the local blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 15:47, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Resolved This issue has been resolved, and I have therefore removed the tag, if not already done. No further action is necessary.—
cyberbot II
NotifyOffline
15:34, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
I rewrote the entry somewhat to be more historically accurate. I also added some links which are helpful to casual readers. I restored a deleted photo and tweaked the caption a little to be more correct. I probably know or have met many of the ESC people so I will not be offended if any of you do some changes. I just ask that they be edits and not dumb reverts by trolling rollbackers (Trollbackers) and such. We need to police against that mob. 172.56.2.133 ( talk) 09:29, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. -- Tavix ( talk) 01:37, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
English Shepherd dog → English Shepherd – Shorter and unoccupied. -- MA SHAUN IX 21:04, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on English Shepherd. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:02, 24 December 2016 (UTC)