This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Do we really need this? This is more of a trivial detail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.112.56.22 ( talk) 15:40, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Since reciprocating steam engines were largely responsible for the industrial revolution and energy conversion efficiency studies it would be worthwhile to provide accurate values.
In the examples section, it would be nice to add columns from and to in order to understand exactly, where the energy is lost, e.g. from visible light to electric energy (Solar panel) or from electric energy to mechanical energy (Motor). This might also clear up the misunderstanding about the heat pump which has an efficiency (CoP) of up to a few hundred percent, one may say. I might insert that the next days, if nobody objects. Zeptomoon ( talk) 16:09, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Please do not change electric heater efficiency to something below 100% All electrical devices convert electric power into heat with absolutely 100% efficiency —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.118.69.71 ( talk) 16:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
The source PDF for solar cell efficiency mentions 85% in the context "can absorb up to 85% of above-band gap sunlight". There are two additional sources of loss here - lower frequencies of light are lost as heat, and higher frequencies of light are absorbed but only the band-gap potential of the light is converted - the extra energy of the higher frequency photon is also lost as heat. This number should be changed to the highest efficiency that a solar cell has actually achieved from normal sunlight, or it should note that such efficiency requires a monochromatic source. 206.124.146.40 ( talk) 02:29, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
The table gives a combustion engine efficiency of 10-50%, based on a broken link. However, the
Internal combustion engine article says it's about 18-20% efficient, with a theoretical limit of 37% and one of the sources states that experimental models reach only 28% efficiency. So what is the 10-50% efficiency based on?
Note that the abovementioned source is about cars, but the efficiency is for fuel-to-crankshaft, so that should not matter. Or are car enignes inherently less efficient? However, this is about actual efficiency. If the engine works constantly at the ideal speed, that should improve, but still not come close to 37%, I assume.
DirkvdM (
talk) 12:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
The values for different light sources in the table are either wrong or extremely misleading. For example: The energy conversion efficiency of any incandescent lamp should be near 100 per cent. Most of it is in the infrared region and thus no benefit to human vision; however, in terms of radiated energy from the filament light bulbs are extremely efficient. The lighting efficiency has nothing to do with energy conversion, but with the physiology of human vision. The details are described in Luminous efficacy. Mixing both up is extremely misleading and very bad style.
Please correct these values so that they give the true energy conversion efficiency (i.e. without mixing up with photometric terms!). For incans, as said above, it should be >90% (the rest is used to heat up bulb and socket, and eventuelly given off as far IR and convective heat), for LEDs and CFLs I would guess something between 20% and 50% (the rest is waste heat inside the electronic components or absorbed by the phosphor and never been radiated off as light/IR/UV). Does anyone more accurate values for this? If not, I suggest to remove the data for light sources, since they are entirely useless in this form.-- SiriusB ( talk) 12:11, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
The table should be split in categories for each type of conversion. For example:
etc.
"Muscle is 8 to 21% more efficient at natural process energy conversion than photosynthesis" is a very bad kind of sentence and it is what that table is sending as a message 188.254.239.106 ( talk)
and what about nuclear energy plants? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
194.88.152.186 (
talk) 06:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Energy conversion efficiency. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:26, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
While the term "conversion efficiency" can be applied to any type of conversion of one form of energy into another, when I encounter this term it usually has a more specific meaning, which in the field of lasers is often described as "wall-plug efficiency" or "outlet-to-aperture" efficiency. The reason being is that, with many energy-conversion devices, there are multiple stages of conversion in between. For instance, in lasers, there is often electronic efficiency (the efficiency of electrical components and things like flashlamps), followed by transfer efficiency (the efficiency of transmitting light from, say, a flashlamp to a laser rod), quantum efficiency (the efficiency of the laser medium to absorb photons and then reemit them as photons), fluorescence efficiency (losses due to the Stokes shift), and so on. The same is true with many forms of lighting, with fluorescent lamps being a great example, as well as any number of other various things. The conversion efficiency, on the other hand, always tends to be the overall efficiency of the device. I'll see if I can find some sources which detail this better, but if anyone else has some, please feel free to let me know. Thanks. Zaereth ( talk) 21:48, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Energy conversion efficiency. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:22, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
I removed the numbers someone added for heat pumps because it had no source. I'm only vaguely familiar with them, so I did look into it, and the calculations are far more complex. First, what is apparently described as efficiency is not really energy conversion efficiency. It's more like describing the efficiency of a conveyor belt (electric motor) and counting the product it moves as energy converted, when in reality it was just relocated. The conversion efficiency is apparently the amount of input energy per the amount of heat produced by the compression process. When used for cooling, this heat is waste, and the inverse percentage represents the cooling efficiency. When used for heating, though, the waste becomes the important number, which is used for heating the house. Since all waste is basically used for this purpose, the conversion efficiency then can become close to or equaling 100%. (More accurately, this is referred to as conservation of entropy. As a wise person once told me, "It's hard to waste any energy living in a cold climate.")
This heat is then added to the heat being moved by the system, which gives a coefficient of performance (COP), which for heating will be 3 to 5 times greater than 100% (often written in decimal form, ie: 3.0--5.0), but this is not the same as conversion efficiency. It's more like conversion efficiency + moved product. Then there is EER (energy efficiency ratio, a unit only used for cooling, in BTUh/wh), SEER (seasonal energy efficiency ratio), and HSPF (heating seasonal performance factor). But none of them describes the conversion efficiency, although they do "imply" efficiencies greater than 100%. Still, I may be misinterpreting things a bit, so someone more familiar with this should add info about it. Zaereth ( talk) 23:23, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Do we really need this? This is more of a trivial detail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.112.56.22 ( talk) 15:40, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Since reciprocating steam engines were largely responsible for the industrial revolution and energy conversion efficiency studies it would be worthwhile to provide accurate values.
In the examples section, it would be nice to add columns from and to in order to understand exactly, where the energy is lost, e.g. from visible light to electric energy (Solar panel) or from electric energy to mechanical energy (Motor). This might also clear up the misunderstanding about the heat pump which has an efficiency (CoP) of up to a few hundred percent, one may say. I might insert that the next days, if nobody objects. Zeptomoon ( talk) 16:09, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Please do not change electric heater efficiency to something below 100% All electrical devices convert electric power into heat with absolutely 100% efficiency —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.118.69.71 ( talk) 16:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
The source PDF for solar cell efficiency mentions 85% in the context "can absorb up to 85% of above-band gap sunlight". There are two additional sources of loss here - lower frequencies of light are lost as heat, and higher frequencies of light are absorbed but only the band-gap potential of the light is converted - the extra energy of the higher frequency photon is also lost as heat. This number should be changed to the highest efficiency that a solar cell has actually achieved from normal sunlight, or it should note that such efficiency requires a monochromatic source. 206.124.146.40 ( talk) 02:29, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
The table gives a combustion engine efficiency of 10-50%, based on a broken link. However, the
Internal combustion engine article says it's about 18-20% efficient, with a theoretical limit of 37% and one of the sources states that experimental models reach only 28% efficiency. So what is the 10-50% efficiency based on?
Note that the abovementioned source is about cars, but the efficiency is for fuel-to-crankshaft, so that should not matter. Or are car enignes inherently less efficient? However, this is about actual efficiency. If the engine works constantly at the ideal speed, that should improve, but still not come close to 37%, I assume.
DirkvdM (
talk) 12:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
The values for different light sources in the table are either wrong or extremely misleading. For example: The energy conversion efficiency of any incandescent lamp should be near 100 per cent. Most of it is in the infrared region and thus no benefit to human vision; however, in terms of radiated energy from the filament light bulbs are extremely efficient. The lighting efficiency has nothing to do with energy conversion, but with the physiology of human vision. The details are described in Luminous efficacy. Mixing both up is extremely misleading and very bad style.
Please correct these values so that they give the true energy conversion efficiency (i.e. without mixing up with photometric terms!). For incans, as said above, it should be >90% (the rest is used to heat up bulb and socket, and eventuelly given off as far IR and convective heat), for LEDs and CFLs I would guess something between 20% and 50% (the rest is waste heat inside the electronic components or absorbed by the phosphor and never been radiated off as light/IR/UV). Does anyone more accurate values for this? If not, I suggest to remove the data for light sources, since they are entirely useless in this form.-- SiriusB ( talk) 12:11, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
The table should be split in categories for each type of conversion. For example:
etc.
"Muscle is 8 to 21% more efficient at natural process energy conversion than photosynthesis" is a very bad kind of sentence and it is what that table is sending as a message 188.254.239.106 ( talk)
and what about nuclear energy plants? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
194.88.152.186 (
talk) 06:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Energy conversion efficiency. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:26, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
While the term "conversion efficiency" can be applied to any type of conversion of one form of energy into another, when I encounter this term it usually has a more specific meaning, which in the field of lasers is often described as "wall-plug efficiency" or "outlet-to-aperture" efficiency. The reason being is that, with many energy-conversion devices, there are multiple stages of conversion in between. For instance, in lasers, there is often electronic efficiency (the efficiency of electrical components and things like flashlamps), followed by transfer efficiency (the efficiency of transmitting light from, say, a flashlamp to a laser rod), quantum efficiency (the efficiency of the laser medium to absorb photons and then reemit them as photons), fluorescence efficiency (losses due to the Stokes shift), and so on. The same is true with many forms of lighting, with fluorescent lamps being a great example, as well as any number of other various things. The conversion efficiency, on the other hand, always tends to be the overall efficiency of the device. I'll see if I can find some sources which detail this better, but if anyone else has some, please feel free to let me know. Thanks. Zaereth ( talk) 21:48, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Energy conversion efficiency. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:22, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
I removed the numbers someone added for heat pumps because it had no source. I'm only vaguely familiar with them, so I did look into it, and the calculations are far more complex. First, what is apparently described as efficiency is not really energy conversion efficiency. It's more like describing the efficiency of a conveyor belt (electric motor) and counting the product it moves as energy converted, when in reality it was just relocated. The conversion efficiency is apparently the amount of input energy per the amount of heat produced by the compression process. When used for cooling, this heat is waste, and the inverse percentage represents the cooling efficiency. When used for heating, though, the waste becomes the important number, which is used for heating the house. Since all waste is basically used for this purpose, the conversion efficiency then can become close to or equaling 100%. (More accurately, this is referred to as conservation of entropy. As a wise person once told me, "It's hard to waste any energy living in a cold climate.")
This heat is then added to the heat being moved by the system, which gives a coefficient of performance (COP), which for heating will be 3 to 5 times greater than 100% (often written in decimal form, ie: 3.0--5.0), but this is not the same as conversion efficiency. It's more like conversion efficiency + moved product. Then there is EER (energy efficiency ratio, a unit only used for cooling, in BTUh/wh), SEER (seasonal energy efficiency ratio), and HSPF (heating seasonal performance factor). But none of them describes the conversion efficiency, although they do "imply" efficiencies greater than 100%. Still, I may be misinterpreting things a bit, so someone more familiar with this should add info about it. Zaereth ( talk) 23:23, 2 April 2018 (UTC)