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![]() | A fact from Ems Ukaz appeared on Wikipedia's
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Do we know how significant was Shevchenko's association with СM? There were lots of legends created later that Shevchenko was a leading member and even a "close friend" of Kostomarov.
The fact is that Shevchenko was rather young at the time and definetely not the most significant member or thinker of the society at that early stage of his life. For example in the book "The Lands of Partitioned Poland, 1795-1918", by Wandycz at al, University of Washington Press, ISBN 0295953586 (p. 250) it says that Kostomarov was the CM chief ideologist and Shevchenko is called the "main artist", not much of a political role. "The Ukrainians", by Andrew Wilson Yale University Press, 2002, ISBN 0300093098, (p. 99), says that CM society "included Kostomarov, Kulish and indirectly Shevchenko). Of course Shevchenko has later become the best known of them all, therefore some sources tend to overemphasize his role, but even our article on him ( Taras Shevchenko) says correctly that he was probably "not an official member of the Brotherhood".
There were plenty of other significant for that time figures that got into trouble when the CM was shut down, such as Panteleimon Kulish and Vasily Belozersky. No need to overemphasize Shevchenko in this context, I think. We can mention him in other places of the article since his career was certainly affected by the Ukaze. -- Irpen 16:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. -- Irpen 21:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
The landmark date for the reversal of Ukrainization was the Stalin/Molotov telegram to the Central Committee of the CP(b)U dated December, 1932. From Олександр ТЕРЕЩЕНКО, УКРАЇНСЬКЕ ВІДРОДЖЕННЯ НА ПІВДНІ РОСІЇ :
Але успіхи українізації в Україні та Російській Федерації, в кінцевому підсумку, викликали негативне ставлення з боку вищого партійного керівництва в Москві. В грудні 1932 року на адресу ЦК КП(б) України і в деякі регіональні партійні органи Росії була направлена телеграма за підписами Сталіна і Молотова, в якій українізація безапеляційно засуджувалася як непродумана і шкідлива кампанія. Місцевим органам наказувалося "немедленно прекратить украинизацию в районах, перевести все укринизированные газеты, книги и издания на русский язык и до осени 1933 года подготовить переход школ и преподавание на русский язык" -- Irpen 23:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
I want to compliment the authors. The article is informative and even-handed. Thanks, Ghirla -трёп- 15:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
These sentences lack sufficient contexts to be understood:
Circeus 15:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the publications: the Russian Empire had neglected education for decades, and a lot of religious, cultural, and nationalist organizations ran their own schools and educational programs. I'd have to do a bit of reading to be able to present it correctly in the article, though. — Michael Z. 2006-11-20 17:54 Z
Did anyone read this interpretation of the Ems decree? What do you think? ( Igny 16:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC))
If this is going to be used, here is the link to the original source of the article rather than a mirror at some internet Blog:
-- Irpen 21:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, could you point out where exactly this site is calling for absorption of Ukraine? From what I can see, the site is: Украинские Страницы, История национального движения Украины 1800-1920ые годы (translation: Ukrainian pages, the history opf the national movement in Ukraine in 1800s-1920s). In any case, for any author, be it Leonid Solokolov or even much more acclaimed Orest Subtelny we are able to separate facts from the author's opinions. The linked article cites a welth of facts and references them to specific documents. We are free to use the facts unless they are referred to the falcified documents. -- Irpen 23:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Irpen, look at the style Leonid Sokolov writes. He simply radicules Ukrainians and their language. I just started to read his article that you suggested and it stinks as the pro-Russian propoganda which I already have an idea how it ends. Why does he write that way? Is that really funny? Certaintly not to me and it itches me to punch him to pulp. Who is that guy anyway? I couldn't find any description about the author. Aleksandr Grigoryev ( talk) 12:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | A fact from Ems Ukaz appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 20 November 2006. The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
Do we know how significant was Shevchenko's association with СM? There were lots of legends created later that Shevchenko was a leading member and even a "close friend" of Kostomarov.
The fact is that Shevchenko was rather young at the time and definetely not the most significant member or thinker of the society at that early stage of his life. For example in the book "The Lands of Partitioned Poland, 1795-1918", by Wandycz at al, University of Washington Press, ISBN 0295953586 (p. 250) it says that Kostomarov was the CM chief ideologist and Shevchenko is called the "main artist", not much of a political role. "The Ukrainians", by Andrew Wilson Yale University Press, 2002, ISBN 0300093098, (p. 99), says that CM society "included Kostomarov, Kulish and indirectly Shevchenko). Of course Shevchenko has later become the best known of them all, therefore some sources tend to overemphasize his role, but even our article on him ( Taras Shevchenko) says correctly that he was probably "not an official member of the Brotherhood".
There were plenty of other significant for that time figures that got into trouble when the CM was shut down, such as Panteleimon Kulish and Vasily Belozersky. No need to overemphasize Shevchenko in this context, I think. We can mention him in other places of the article since his career was certainly affected by the Ukaze. -- Irpen 16:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. -- Irpen 21:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
The landmark date for the reversal of Ukrainization was the Stalin/Molotov telegram to the Central Committee of the CP(b)U dated December, 1932. From Олександр ТЕРЕЩЕНКО, УКРАЇНСЬКЕ ВІДРОДЖЕННЯ НА ПІВДНІ РОСІЇ :
Але успіхи українізації в Україні та Російській Федерації, в кінцевому підсумку, викликали негативне ставлення з боку вищого партійного керівництва в Москві. В грудні 1932 року на адресу ЦК КП(б) України і в деякі регіональні партійні органи Росії була направлена телеграма за підписами Сталіна і Молотова, в якій українізація безапеляційно засуджувалася як непродумана і шкідлива кампанія. Місцевим органам наказувалося "немедленно прекратить украинизацию в районах, перевести все укринизированные газеты, книги и издания на русский язык и до осени 1933 года подготовить переход школ и преподавание на русский язык" -- Irpen 23:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
I want to compliment the authors. The article is informative and even-handed. Thanks, Ghirla -трёп- 15:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
These sentences lack sufficient contexts to be understood:
Circeus 15:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the publications: the Russian Empire had neglected education for decades, and a lot of religious, cultural, and nationalist organizations ran their own schools and educational programs. I'd have to do a bit of reading to be able to present it correctly in the article, though. — Michael Z. 2006-11-20 17:54 Z
Did anyone read this interpretation of the Ems decree? What do you think? ( Igny 16:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC))
If this is going to be used, here is the link to the original source of the article rather than a mirror at some internet Blog:
-- Irpen 21:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, could you point out where exactly this site is calling for absorption of Ukraine? From what I can see, the site is: Украинские Страницы, История национального движения Украины 1800-1920ые годы (translation: Ukrainian pages, the history opf the national movement in Ukraine in 1800s-1920s). In any case, for any author, be it Leonid Solokolov or even much more acclaimed Orest Subtelny we are able to separate facts from the author's opinions. The linked article cites a welth of facts and references them to specific documents. We are free to use the facts unless they are referred to the falcified documents. -- Irpen 23:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Irpen, look at the style Leonid Sokolov writes. He simply radicules Ukrainians and their language. I just started to read his article that you suggested and it stinks as the pro-Russian propoganda which I already have an idea how it ends. Why does he write that way? Is that really funny? Certaintly not to me and it itches me to punch him to pulp. Who is that guy anyway? I couldn't find any description about the author. Aleksandr Grigoryev ( talk) 12:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ems Ukaz. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.zerkalo-nedeli.com/ie/show/609/54147/When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:01, 14 December 2017 (UTC)