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Great work so far, User:Nlu! Your biographies on China's emperors is one of the most impressive works on Wikipedia. Keep the expansion coming!-- Pericles of Athens Talk 04:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
The article Poetry of Tang Xuanzong is unreferenced and add little, if any information that is not available in this article already. Narthring ( talk • contribs) 03:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
![]() | The contents of the Source page name page were merged into Emperor Xuanzong of Tang. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Regarding the output of the above template: the source page was converted to a redirect page to "Poetry" section. Dcattell ( talk) 20:43, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
With all respect to the various contributors, this article is extremely difficult to follow for someone not intimately familiar with the material. Looking at other pages on Emperors, and indeed rulers of other places and times, the problem is easy to identify.
There seems to be an unusual emphasis here on listing scores and scores of other persons, their alternate names, titles, family relations, etc. even when their importance is minor at best. Now, A+ for completeness, but this approach makes it almost completely impossible to discern who is actually of importance, and worse, what is even going on. The vast majority of sentences are buried under a flow-breaking wall of names. For instance, this passage:
"By summer 713, it was said that Princess Taiping, Dou, Cen, Xiao, Cui; along with other officials Xue Ji, Li Jin (李晉) the Prince of Xinxing (a grandson of Li Deliang (李德良), a cousin of Tang's founder Emperor Gaozu), Li You (李猷), Jia Yingfu (賈膺福), Tang Jun (唐晙); the generals Chang Yuankai (常元楷), Li Ci (李慈), and Li Qin (李欽); and the monk Huifan, were plotting to overthrow Emperor Xuanzong. It was further said that they discussed, with the lady in waiting Lady Yuan to poison the gastrodia elata that Emperor Xuanzong routinely took as an aphrodisiac. When this alleged plot was reported to Emperor Xuanzong by Wei Zhigu, Emperor Xuanzong, who had already received advice from Wang Ju (王琚), Zhang Shuo, and Cui Riyong to act first, did so. He convened a meeting with his brothers Li Longfan the Prince of Qi and Li Longye the Prince of Xue (who had changed their names to Li Fan and Li Ye by this point to observe naming taboo for Emperor Xuanzong), Guo Yuanzhen, along with a number of his associates — the general Wang Maozhong (王毛仲), the officials Jiang Jiao (姜皎) and Li Lingwen (李令問), his brother-in-law Wang Shouyi (王守一), the eunuch Gao Lishi, and the military officer Li Shoude (李守德) — and decided to act first."
First of all, this passage names 34 people (not counting the Emperor, since this IS his article), and yes, I am counting the brothers twice each, since their name changes are hardly germane to the matter. Reading this, it is impossible to discern who is actually important, and very difficult to even follow. Furthermore, the fourth and final sentence here seems to be solely an excuse for name spam, the meaning being entirely contained in the previous sentence.
I really have no idea where to start. I'd love to clear some of the chaff, but there is SO MUCH of it that with my only moderate knowledge of the period, I have no idea who all is safe to cut. Is there a reason the above cannot be changed to:
"By summer 713, it was said that Princess Taiping, Dou, Cen, Xiao, Cui along with Xue Ji and other officials were plotting to overthrow Emperor Xuanzong. It was further said that they discussed poisoning the gastrodia elata that Emperor Xuanzong routinely took as an aphrodisiac. When this alleged plot was reported to Emperor Xuanzong by Wei Zhigu, Emperor Xuanzong convened a meeting with his brothers and close associates, and came to the decision to act first." ?
Is there a reason we can't do this with the whole article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.9.152.146 ( talk) 10:19, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Emperor Xuānzong of Tang which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 00:15, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Consensus not to move (All the IP votes are by the nominator, per this Sockpuppet report), therefore, not moved. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions 12:18, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Emperor Xuanzong of Tang →
Li Longji (Tang Ming Huang) – This article mainly talks about Li Longji, whose posthumous name is Tang Ming Huang. During his reign,
Tang dynasty flourished to its heyday firstly, but finally weakened by
An Lushan Rebellion seriously. However, there is an article which has a similar title "
Emperor Xuanzong of Tang (9th century)" and mainly talks about Li Chen, Emperor Xuānzong in latter
Tang dynasty, in English Wikipedia. In order to distinguish from each other, I think it is a good idea to change this article's title to "Li Longji (Tang Ming Huang)".
123.121.173.87 (
talk)
04:20, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
I don't know which one should be used, since they are both interchangeable kind of. I would like people to vote on this, since I just changed it and I'm not sure about what it should be called in this article. I have not yet reverted my edit. Friend505 ( talk) 12:36, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Friend505: While "Wu Longji" is a name, I can't find any source that uses this term to describe the emperor, even during the period when he supposedly changed his name. The episode is explained in the main text and I think that is sufficient – putting the name in bold in the first sentence may mislead readers to think that this was an import alias of his.
In addition, is there a source to prove that Xuanzong actually used this name in his childhood? I searched for both English and Chinese sources on topic but found nothing. Most references to the name are copied from Wikipedia and that's a bit suspicious. Esiymbro ( talk) 15:02, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Why is the name Minghuang not mentioned even a single time in the article's text (outside the infobox)? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 20:30, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
An omission: the Emperor Xuanzong is known to be one of several emperors who wrote a commentary on the Tao Te Ching, which Max Kaltenmark has described as "one of the most respected [commentaries] of all". (Lao Tzu and Taoism, trans. Roger Greaves (Stanford: University Press, 1969), p. 18). Apparently this emperor had a literary bent beyond writing poetry. -- llywrch ( talk) 07:36, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
![]() | Emperor Xuanzong of Tang was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on July 14, 2013, July 14, 2014, and July 14, 2016. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Emperor Xuanzong of Tang article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Great work so far, User:Nlu! Your biographies on China's emperors is one of the most impressive works on Wikipedia. Keep the expansion coming!-- Pericles of Athens Talk 04:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
The article Poetry of Tang Xuanzong is unreferenced and add little, if any information that is not available in this article already. Narthring ( talk • contribs) 03:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
![]() | The contents of the Source page name page were merged into Emperor Xuanzong of Tang. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Regarding the output of the above template: the source page was converted to a redirect page to "Poetry" section. Dcattell ( talk) 20:43, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
With all respect to the various contributors, this article is extremely difficult to follow for someone not intimately familiar with the material. Looking at other pages on Emperors, and indeed rulers of other places and times, the problem is easy to identify.
There seems to be an unusual emphasis here on listing scores and scores of other persons, their alternate names, titles, family relations, etc. even when their importance is minor at best. Now, A+ for completeness, but this approach makes it almost completely impossible to discern who is actually of importance, and worse, what is even going on. The vast majority of sentences are buried under a flow-breaking wall of names. For instance, this passage:
"By summer 713, it was said that Princess Taiping, Dou, Cen, Xiao, Cui; along with other officials Xue Ji, Li Jin (李晉) the Prince of Xinxing (a grandson of Li Deliang (李德良), a cousin of Tang's founder Emperor Gaozu), Li You (李猷), Jia Yingfu (賈膺福), Tang Jun (唐晙); the generals Chang Yuankai (常元楷), Li Ci (李慈), and Li Qin (李欽); and the monk Huifan, were plotting to overthrow Emperor Xuanzong. It was further said that they discussed, with the lady in waiting Lady Yuan to poison the gastrodia elata that Emperor Xuanzong routinely took as an aphrodisiac. When this alleged plot was reported to Emperor Xuanzong by Wei Zhigu, Emperor Xuanzong, who had already received advice from Wang Ju (王琚), Zhang Shuo, and Cui Riyong to act first, did so. He convened a meeting with his brothers Li Longfan the Prince of Qi and Li Longye the Prince of Xue (who had changed their names to Li Fan and Li Ye by this point to observe naming taboo for Emperor Xuanzong), Guo Yuanzhen, along with a number of his associates — the general Wang Maozhong (王毛仲), the officials Jiang Jiao (姜皎) and Li Lingwen (李令問), his brother-in-law Wang Shouyi (王守一), the eunuch Gao Lishi, and the military officer Li Shoude (李守德) — and decided to act first."
First of all, this passage names 34 people (not counting the Emperor, since this IS his article), and yes, I am counting the brothers twice each, since their name changes are hardly germane to the matter. Reading this, it is impossible to discern who is actually important, and very difficult to even follow. Furthermore, the fourth and final sentence here seems to be solely an excuse for name spam, the meaning being entirely contained in the previous sentence.
I really have no idea where to start. I'd love to clear some of the chaff, but there is SO MUCH of it that with my only moderate knowledge of the period, I have no idea who all is safe to cut. Is there a reason the above cannot be changed to:
"By summer 713, it was said that Princess Taiping, Dou, Cen, Xiao, Cui along with Xue Ji and other officials were plotting to overthrow Emperor Xuanzong. It was further said that they discussed poisoning the gastrodia elata that Emperor Xuanzong routinely took as an aphrodisiac. When this alleged plot was reported to Emperor Xuanzong by Wei Zhigu, Emperor Xuanzong convened a meeting with his brothers and close associates, and came to the decision to act first." ?
Is there a reason we can't do this with the whole article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.9.152.146 ( talk) 10:19, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Emperor Xuanzong of Tang. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:22, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Emperor Xuānzong of Tang which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 00:15, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Consensus not to move (All the IP votes are by the nominator, per this Sockpuppet report), therefore, not moved. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions 12:18, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Emperor Xuanzong of Tang →
Li Longji (Tang Ming Huang) – This article mainly talks about Li Longji, whose posthumous name is Tang Ming Huang. During his reign,
Tang dynasty flourished to its heyday firstly, but finally weakened by
An Lushan Rebellion seriously. However, there is an article which has a similar title "
Emperor Xuanzong of Tang (9th century)" and mainly talks about Li Chen, Emperor Xuānzong in latter
Tang dynasty, in English Wikipedia. In order to distinguish from each other, I think it is a good idea to change this article's title to "Li Longji (Tang Ming Huang)".
123.121.173.87 (
talk)
04:20, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
I don't know which one should be used, since they are both interchangeable kind of. I would like people to vote on this, since I just changed it and I'm not sure about what it should be called in this article. I have not yet reverted my edit. Friend505 ( talk) 12:36, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Friend505: While "Wu Longji" is a name, I can't find any source that uses this term to describe the emperor, even during the period when he supposedly changed his name. The episode is explained in the main text and I think that is sufficient – putting the name in bold in the first sentence may mislead readers to think that this was an import alias of his.
In addition, is there a source to prove that Xuanzong actually used this name in his childhood? I searched for both English and Chinese sources on topic but found nothing. Most references to the name are copied from Wikipedia and that's a bit suspicious. Esiymbro ( talk) 15:02, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Why is the name Minghuang not mentioned even a single time in the article's text (outside the infobox)? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 20:30, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
An omission: the Emperor Xuanzong is known to be one of several emperors who wrote a commentary on the Tao Te Ching, which Max Kaltenmark has described as "one of the most respected [commentaries] of all". (Lao Tzu and Taoism, trans. Roger Greaves (Stanford: University Press, 1969), p. 18). Apparently this emperor had a literary bent beyond writing poetry. -- llywrch ( talk) 07:36, 7 August 2021 (UTC)