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As I read it, Collaborations is a subsection of the Discography section. If this is so, then I take it the collaborations listed should be limited to those albums (e.g., Trio, Western Wall, Roadrunning) on which Emmylou appears throughout and receives credit not just in the liner notes but on the front or back cover. A mere appearance, whether it's on one song or several, on someone else's album shouldn't be enough to warrant inclusion here. Otherwise, this section will become enormous again. Someone earlier suggested a separate discography entry, but until then. . . . Comments? Rivertorch 07:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Would you like to start it? :) I'll contribute what I can to it if someone else will do the initial setup. I do want to clean up the Collaborations section soon. Rivertorch 18:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Rioblanca. I share your view that the songs deserve to be listed comprehensively. The question at this point, I think, is simply where to put them. The preceding two sections list entire albums, not songs. If you look back through the history of the article, you'll see that there was a fairly all-inclusive list once upon a time. Some felt it got out of hand and lengthened the article too much, but instead of its migrating to its own article it somehow got deleted. I can start a separate Discography article but probably can't get around to it for a few days. In the meantime, I'm going to pare the Collaborations section down to the bare bones—i.e., the albums, not individual songs. Don't worry about your entries disappearing; we can always retrieve them for the new separate page. Rivertorch 05:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
In the same vein, I'm cleaning up the Compilations section. What I remove there should reappear on the new Discography page by and by. Rivertorch 05:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
How about this for a collaboration format? Rubioblanca 03:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Title | Collaborator(s) | Contribution | Songwriter | Length | Producer | Source | Date | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
"Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain" | Roy Acuff | vocals | Fred Rose | 2:05 | That's Country" by Roy Acuff and Grammy's Greatest Country, Vol. 2 by various artists | 1975 | [1] | |
"Oh My Sweet Carolina" | Ryan Adams | vocals | Ryan Adams | 4:55 | Ethan Jones | Heartbreaker by Ryan Adams | 2000 | [2] |
"The Waltz You Saved for Me" | John Anderson | vocals | Flindt, Kahn, King | 2:45 | Wild & Blue by John Anderson | 1982 | [3] | |
"The Wayward Wind" | Lynn Anderson | harmony vocals | Lebowsky, Newman | 3:26 | Cowboy's Sweetheart by Lynn Anderson | 1992 | [4] | |
"The Last Time" | Tom Astor | vocals | Meilenstein by Tom Astor | 1998 | ||||
"Dreaming My Dreams" | Mike Auldridge | vocals | Reynolds | 3:01 | Mike Auldridge by Mike Auldridge | 1976 | [5] | |
"Appalachian Rain" | Matraca Berg | vocals | Matraca Berg, Samoset | 3:43 | Lying to the Moon by Matraca Berg | 1990 | [6] | |
"Only a Woman's Heart" | Mary Black | vocals | Eleanor McEvoy | 3:47 | Looking Back by Mary Black | 1995 | [7] | |
"Grey Funnel Line" | Mary Black, Dolores Keane | vocals | 6:53 | Donal Lunny | Bringing It All Back Home, Vol. 2 by various artists | 1999 | [8] | |
"Sonny" | Mary Black, Dolores Keane | vocals | 4:14 | Donal Lunny | Bringing It All Back Home, Vol. 1 by various artists | 1998 | [9] | |
"Nobody's" | David Bromberg | vocals | White | 4:58 | Brian Ahern, Bernie Leadon | Midnight on the Water by David Bromberg | 1975 | [10] |
"Send Me an Angel" | Cindy Bullens | vocals | Cindy Bullens | 4:35 | Cindy Bullens | Neverland by Cindy Bullens | 2001 | [11] |
Looks great! It will fit perfecty on the new Discography page, which I might actually get around to creating this week if no one beats me to it (hint hint, please beat me to it!), and I think a similar format would work well for the rest of the new page, as well. Rivertorch 04:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
It occurs to me that the Contribution column may prove problematic. In almost every case, her contribution is a vocal (should be a handful out of hundreds that are vocal + acoustic guitar) , and there may be endless debate over what constitutes duet vocals vs. harmony vocals. We could probably live without this column, but it doesn't bother me. I like the Producer column; that's cool. Rivertorch 04:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
What about separate lists for harmony vs lead vs unverified contribution? My thought is that there are a number of Emmylou appearances where the only way you know she's there is because the liner notes say so. I'd like a way to distinguish between substantial and other appearances. Ditching the contribution column is probably a good idea. Thoughts? Rubioblanca 14:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Created the Emmylou Harris discography article (someone was begging and I had a moment of weakness). Marked with template:underconstruction. I haven't deleted anything from this article yet. Modeled on the Bob Dylan discography. Help! Rubioblanca 15:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
References
What should the threshold be for listing as a collaboration? These two Guy Clark albums are full of Emmylou:
If they are placed in the Other Appearances table they will use 12 rows vs 2 rows in the Collaborations table/list. Rubioblanca 17:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I just finished adding collaborative other appearances from the July 5 2007 version of the Emmylou Harris article. Now they need to have the rest of the data filled in. Still pending are the half dozen or so solo appearances from that list. Should they go in the same list? Perhaps at the top? Rubioblanca 17:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to make a seperate footnote section at the bottom of the Other Appearances that would just contain extended notes. I can't use the "ref" tag because those are collected in the references section and don't know how to collect from the note_label template. Anyone have an example of multiple notes sections that we can crib. (I rejected the superscript hack from the charted singles table because the note - text link is maintained by hand). The Allison Krauss entry is the testbed.
Also, I noticed there is a liner notes template and style requested for using such references. Sigh! How soon do we need to comply? Rubioblanca 18:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Tom Astor is a German country singer (not a typo) and has an article in the German wikipedia. I am not sure of the cross wiki (transwiki) linking policy and whether or not to create a soft redirect. Anyone with more knowldege of how to do this? Rubioblanca 05:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I think I finished grabbing all of the formerly deleted other appearances from the Emmylou Harris article. I used content from the archived articles dated July 5 and September 21 2007. Did I get them all?
If I did, I think the next stage is to walk through all of the entries and validate them against All Music Guide. I'm also check cmt.com and two online music stores (amazon and cd universe) to validate data. If I actually have one of the discs I also check the liner notes. This takes 5-15 minutes per song depending on obscurity. With around 200 entries (about 30 validated so far) there's a lot of work left. I'll commit to at least 2/day (hopefully more). Anyone else want to jump on this? Rubioblanca 05:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to add the three relevant songs from this album but am not sure where to put them since we're alphabetizing by collaborator(s). It is not strictly a Kate and Anna McGarrigle album. How about "various artists"? Which leads to another question: how inclusive do you think we should be on video and film appearances? The video release of The McGarrigle Hour features Emmylou on exactly one song. (P.S. You all are doing a fantastic job on this page. Thanks for all the hard work.) Rivertorch 06:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser. You're probably familiar with The McGarrigle Hour: on two of the three songs featuring Emmylou, she sings with Kate and Anna, while the third features lead vocals from several people besides Emmylou. Oh, well . . . I'll figure it out. Rivertorch 17:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Not sure about "All I Left Behind." Emmylou has had some dealings with the McGarrigles for a long time, recently and notably on Stumble Into Grace. (Sorry about the curiouser; I'm channeling Lewis Carroll today. I only meant there seems to be an endless array of twists and turns in the discography project.) Rivertorch 03:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Emmylou appears on Jonathan Edwards Rockin' Chair album (1976). She's credited at the album level with Acoustic guitar and Supporting vocals. She could be on all tracks, since it's an Ahern produced album, but listening to the album I could not positively identify her voice (I think she's part of the chorus that backs all of the songs). How should we treat albums like this? There are around 50 appearances not yet in the listing and many of them do not list participation by specific song. The discography appears to be making decent progress. Thanks for cleaning up after me (specifically Rivertorch and Wisekwai); if I don't have the album, I'm relying on All Music for information and that means an extra level for mistakes to creep in. Rubioblanca 22:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Currently the entry for Willie Nelson's "'Til I Gain Control Again" lists another album containing the song. This presents a small quandry. Many of the other songs in the list can be found on multiple albums. There are at least 3 copies of "Evangeline" with The Band available on greatest hits compilations, as well as the 3 or so different versions of The Last Waltz itself. I've been using (as best I can) the first instance of a performance. So, the question is: Should we include other pressings of the same performance in the listing? And, if so, how should they be formatted? Rubioblanca 00:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Emmylou has a CD called Artist's Choice: Emmylou Harris It's a set of songs selected by Emmylou as important to her, but without her as part of the performance. She writes about each of the 16 cuts and what is means to her. What do we do with it? She's also written liner notes a few times on albums she otherwise had no participation with. Should these authorships be listed? Rubioblanca 01:10, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm baffled by this one and can find no reference for it. The allmusic page doesn't help. I'm assuming the Be Here to Love Me CD is based on the film, which I don't recall hearing Emmylou sing in (although she is mentioned a couple times). TVZ may have re-recorded the song with Emmylou or duetted with her at a concert that was taped, but he usually sang that one solo. Anybody have liner notes or otherwise know? Rivertorch 04:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Added info but didn't put Notes link(s) in. Allmusic just says "Carter" for songwriter. I believe it's Maybelle, not A.P. or any other Carter. Do you think this is an acceptable citation: [1] ? Rivertorch 04:53, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Oh. I missed that link. I'm on dial-up, and sometimes All Music pages don't load completely for me. Rivertorch 16:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
The following list of albums credit Emmylou as a performer at All Music Guide, but may not specify tracks (I haven't checked many of these). So we know she's on the album (barring All Music errors) but need to check other resources to find more data. There are another 30 or so songs that I can check (have to dig into those stored boxes) that I haven't included here, which I intend to tackle first. On at least one of these (Jonathan Edwards: Rockin' Chair) the liner notes don't help. For the others, I suggest that if you can successfully add the entry to the Other Appeareances tables, or verify that what is on the album has already been listed from a previous pressing, then please delete the line from this list. If your {non-original} research turns up no further information, please note that fact (I bracketted 'liner notes' for Edwards' Rockin' Chair). How do we list albums that we can only credit at the album level? (Suggestion: separate table section) At onset, there are 60 single artist albums and 14 various artists albums. While I tried to weed out obvious compilations, some have surely crept in (both of the Buck Owens' albums look like compilations but maybe they list the original source). Please help if you can. Rubioblanca 16:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
The initial format is year : album artist Emmylou credits [comments]
1992 : Beyond the Season Garth Brooks Choir, Chorus1982 : Walk On Karen Brooks Guitar, VocalsAdded without track information2006 : Nashville Solomon Burke VocalsOne track, "We're Gonna Hold On", added to list 1998 : Howlin' at the Moon Sam Bush2002 : Johnny Cash & Friends Johnny Cash Performerredundant compilation 1979 : Right or Wrong Rosanne Cash Vocals, Harmony Vocals 1977 : Two Sides to Every Story Gene Clark Vocals 1993 : Traditional The Desert Rose Band Performer1995 : George Ducas George Ducas ProducerHarris did not produce this album 1999 : Mountain Steve Earle/The Del McCoury Band Harmony Vocals1976 : Rockin' Chair Jonathan Edwards Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar, VocalsAdded (no songs known) 1977 : Sail Boat Jonathan Edwards Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar, Vocals1999 : See What You Want to See Radney Foster Vocals, Vocals (bckgr), PerformerAdded 1995 : Makin' a Mess: Bob Gibson Sings Shel Silverstein Bob Gibson Vocals (bckgr)1983 : Turn Me Loose Vince Gill Vocals (bckgr)already in discography 1987 : Way Back Home Vince Gill Vocals (bckgr)1989 : When I Call Your Name Vince Gill Vocals (bckgr)added1994 : Vince Gill & Friends Vince Gill Vocals (bckgr)compilation 2000 : One Endless Night Jimmie Dale Gilmore Vocals 1977 : Till the End Vern Gosdin Vocals (bckgr) 2004 : Impossible Dream Patty Griffin Vocals (bckgr)2002 : Winter Marquee Nanci Griffith Harmony Vocalsadded "Goodnight New York" 1987 : Spring Training Carl Jackson Vocals, Harmony Vocals 1983 : It's Only Rock'n'roll Waylon Jennings Vocals 1993 : Talk About Love The Judds Vocals (bckgr), Performer 1996 : Sling Blade Daniel Lanois/Various Artists Guitar, Vocals, Performer2000 : Hotcakes & Outtakes: 30 Years of Little Feat Little Feat VocalsNothing new2002 : Bluegrass and White Snow: A Mountain Christmas Patty Loveless Vocals (bckgr)added 1994 : Let Them Talk Kate MacKenzie Vocals 2005 : McGarrigle Christmas Hour Kate & Anna McGarrigle Vocals, Choir, Chorus 1995 : Womanly Arts Liz Meyer Vocals 1995 : Your Love and Other Lies Buddy Miller Vocals 1997 : Poison Love Buddy Miller Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals2004 : Love Snuck Up Buddy & Julie Miller Vocalscompilation 2004 : Universal United House of Prayer Buddy Miller Vocals 1993 : Orphans and Angels Julie Miller Performer2007 : My Last Days on Earth 1981-1994 Bill Monroe Vocals, Tenor (Vocal)compilation1992 : Buck Owens Collection (1959-1990) Buck Owens Guitar, Harmony Vocals, Performercompilation1996 : Half a Buck: Buck Owens' Greatest Duets Buck Owens Performercompilation2006 : Complete Reprise Sessions Gram Parsons Vocals, Liner Notes, Author, Mixing, Compilation ProducerAdded many alternate versions of GP/Grievous Angel 1993 : Slow Dancing with the Moon Dolly Parton Harmony Vocals, Performer 2007 : Dolly Parton and Friends Dolly Parton Guest Appearance1996 : Secret of Life Gretchen Peters Vocalsadded1977 : Aimin' to Please Mary Kay Place Guitar, VocalsAdded (no songs)1976 : Peter Pringle Peter Pringle Vocals (bckgr)Added without track information1999 : Willin' Jon Randall Harmony VocalsAdded1994 : Cowboys in Love Riders In The SkyAdded "One Has My Name (The Other Has My Heart)" 1982 : Get Closer Linda Ronstadt Vocals 2004 : Incessant Spinning [Bonus Track] Luthea Salom Author 2006 : Made of Sand Gove Scrivenor Vocals, Guest Appearance 1974 : Tarzana Kid John Sebastian Vocals 2007 : Different Roads The Seldom Scene Author 1979 : Sweet Temptation Ricky Skaggs Vocals1992 : Saturday Night & Sunday Morning Ralph Stanley PerformerAdded "Great High Mountain" w/ Judy Marshall2007 : Slidin' Home John Starling and Carolina Star Harmony VocalsAdded "In My Hour of Darkness" 1999 : Pilgrim Marty Stuart Vocals 2000 : Teddy Thompson Teddy Thompson Vocals (bckgr) 1998 : Popular Demons Greg Trooper Vocals2000 : Real Live Woman Trisha Yearwood Harmony VocalsAdded1992 : Chrome Dreams Neil Young VocalsThis is a bootleg
1990 : Lennon & McCartney Songbook Various Artists PerformerElite Hotel cut1992 : Stained Glass Hour: Bluegrass and Old-Timey Gospel Mu Various Artists Baritone (Vocal)Added "Crying Holy"1995 : Amazing Grace [Sparrow] Various Artists Arranger, Producer, PerformerAngel Band Cut1996 : Bruce Springsteen Songbook Various Artists PerformerAt the Ryman cut1997 : Inner Flame: Rainer Ptacek Tribute Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals, PerformerOne-off contribution, added to list1998 : Chuck B. Covered: A Tribute to Chuck Berry Various Artists PerformerC'est La Vie from Luxury Liner1998 : Tammy Wynette...Remembered Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Percussion, Producer, PerformerAdded "Golden Ring"1998 : Treasures Left Behind: Remembering Kate Wolf Various Artists Guitar (Electric), Vocals, Liner NotesOne song listed1999 : White Mansions/Legend of Jesse James Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals, SingerAdded 2 songs2001 : Poet: A Tribute to Townes Van Zandt Various Artists PerformerOne song, already listed.2003 : Just Because I'm a Woman: The Songs of Dolly Parton Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Liner Notesfrom Quarter Moon2005 : Telluride Bluegrass Festival: Thirty Years [DVD] Various Artists Guitar, VocalsAdded 2006 : Prairie Home Companion Duets Various Artists Performer2006 : Tribute to Nicolette Larson: Lotta Lova Concert Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals, Vocals (bckgr), AuthorStill some background vocal credits that can't be sussed out
There are some famous bootlegs referenced on Emmylou's musical friends page, specifically Neil Young's Chrome Dreams with outtakes from American Stars and Bars (not to be confused with the new official Chrome Dreams II) and an album titled Emmylou Harris and James Burton. There is also a version of libelous version of Dylan's "Hurricane" (Desire sessions) with Emmylou's vocals. Additionally, there are at least a dozen Emmylou Harris and the Hot Band bootlegs from 1975-6 alone. My thought is: bootlegs do not belong in the discography, but I would like to check for consensus. Rubioblanca 16:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
There are a number of albums which include Emmylou Harris, but that do not on either the liner notes, AMG page, emmylou.net or as yet discovered other available resource list her specific contribution. I would like to add these album level credits to the other appearances section with '?' for the title, composer and length columns. Any thoughts or (even better) better suggestions? Rubioblanca 16:28, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
WP:CHARTS was referenced in a recent change to the album charts. I do not believe it applies (or should apply) to this article as that guideline appears directed at chart tables included with a single album article and not a discography. I think the removal of peak position information is unwarranted and eliminates information not available easily unless it is included in the tables. The relevant line from the driective is: "Weeks spent at peak position should be mentioned within the article text and not inserted into the table." Including any such text in the context of a discography would mean replicating prose that belongs in album articles and lead to (I believe) unreadable text. Ergo, if it is included here it should be in the tables. Inclusion of the data serves as an additional means to compare album popularity making it useful and thus deserving of reinstatement. Comments? Rubioblanca 13:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I've read WP:CHARTS a half dozen times (as well as the talk page). Mention is made of barring "weeks at peak position" from tables. NO mention is made of overall weeks on chart. Discographies are only mentioned in passing on the CHARTS talk page (as a place to potentially place information forbidden from album and song articles). The guideline takes no position on the deleted data. The rationale used to delete the weeks on chart data from the article DOES NOT EXIST, so I will revert the changes. By the way, I am mostly irked that data I spent time gathering was removed without discussion and that the reason cited didn't actually exist. I also don't choose my music based on chart position (although I did just buy Springsteen's Magic which is quite popular at the moment). I added the information because, in my judgement, it has some use in interpreting Ms. Harris' career. Rubioblanca 04:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
A Recent change shrunk the table widths in the album section (rationale was for neatness). The original widths were set for consistency (another type of neatness) as per Wisekwai's work with the other appearances tables. So, which is neater:
Tables all the same width (approximately).
Tables as narrow as possible (use width="auto")
Comments? Rubioblanca 13:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
A "too long" tag has been placed. I suppose the next step would be to split out the "other appearances" tables? — Wise Kwai 14:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Is it time to remove the 'Under Construction' tag? Rubioblanca ( talk) 17:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed the tag. There are still 50-60 albums to add to collaborations. I'll keep at it as I am able to locate liner notes or other viable data resources. For some of them, I already know what the song is, but the resource is not appropriate (e.g. Amazon product page). Oh, well. Rubioblanca ( talk) 18:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
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For example - Emmylou Harris is not credited on the label of "Love Hurts" single. She is a session player there. You cant call it her guest single (as we cant call it James Burton guest single for example only because he played guitar on this one). Same for "Hangin' On", "Yesterday's Gone", "Thing About You" - she's not credited there as an artist, she just session vocalist. See 45cat.com or discogs.com
On the other hand, "That Lovin' You Feeling Again" single label says "Roy Orbison & Emmylou Harris". So this single is equal partnership (collaboration), not guest appearance (guests usually credited as "feat" or "with" like in "Play Together Again, Again" or "We Believe In Happy Endings" singles for example). Same thing for "Wild Montana Skies" (John Denver and Emmylou Harris), "The Sweetest Gift" (Linda Ronstadt and Emmylou Harris), "All Fall Down" (George Jones and Emmylou Harris), "Love Don't Care" (Charlie Louvin and Emmylou Harris). She is not a "guest" there.
In the same logic "If I Needed You" is a collaboration single, not her own, because it labeled as "Emmylou Harris and Don Williams" (unlike "Gulf Coast Highway" which labeled "Emmylou Harris with Willie Nelson").
And the one last thing: She did't sell 5.5 millions in the US. There is no such info in the RIAA source. You can't just summarize 9 gold albums + one platinum as exactly 5.5. millions. Gold album means at least 500 thousands. She could sell 600 thousands, 700 thousands and more. Same logic for platinum records. So the only correct way is to state that she sold 8 gold solo albums and 1 gold and one platinum collaboration albums. Additionally there are plenty of reliable sources say she sold 15 millions worldwide - it could be used too-- Kursebi ( talk) 12:35, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
UPD. I see two possible resonable ways to categorisze her singles. The fist by album type:
The second by type of credit/role she got on the particular single:
Right now I do not see a clear criteria in the Singles section-- Kursebi ( talk) 16:54, 30 June 2019 (UTC).
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As I read it, Collaborations is a subsection of the Discography section. If this is so, then I take it the collaborations listed should be limited to those albums (e.g., Trio, Western Wall, Roadrunning) on which Emmylou appears throughout and receives credit not just in the liner notes but on the front or back cover. A mere appearance, whether it's on one song or several, on someone else's album shouldn't be enough to warrant inclusion here. Otherwise, this section will become enormous again. Someone earlier suggested a separate discography entry, but until then. . . . Comments? Rivertorch 07:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Would you like to start it? :) I'll contribute what I can to it if someone else will do the initial setup. I do want to clean up the Collaborations section soon. Rivertorch 18:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Rioblanca. I share your view that the songs deserve to be listed comprehensively. The question at this point, I think, is simply where to put them. The preceding two sections list entire albums, not songs. If you look back through the history of the article, you'll see that there was a fairly all-inclusive list once upon a time. Some felt it got out of hand and lengthened the article too much, but instead of its migrating to its own article it somehow got deleted. I can start a separate Discography article but probably can't get around to it for a few days. In the meantime, I'm going to pare the Collaborations section down to the bare bones—i.e., the albums, not individual songs. Don't worry about your entries disappearing; we can always retrieve them for the new separate page. Rivertorch 05:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
In the same vein, I'm cleaning up the Compilations section. What I remove there should reappear on the new Discography page by and by. Rivertorch 05:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
How about this for a collaboration format? Rubioblanca 03:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Title | Collaborator(s) | Contribution | Songwriter | Length | Producer | Source | Date | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
"Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain" | Roy Acuff | vocals | Fred Rose | 2:05 | That's Country" by Roy Acuff and Grammy's Greatest Country, Vol. 2 by various artists | 1975 | [1] | |
"Oh My Sweet Carolina" | Ryan Adams | vocals | Ryan Adams | 4:55 | Ethan Jones | Heartbreaker by Ryan Adams | 2000 | [2] |
"The Waltz You Saved for Me" | John Anderson | vocals | Flindt, Kahn, King | 2:45 | Wild & Blue by John Anderson | 1982 | [3] | |
"The Wayward Wind" | Lynn Anderson | harmony vocals | Lebowsky, Newman | 3:26 | Cowboy's Sweetheart by Lynn Anderson | 1992 | [4] | |
"The Last Time" | Tom Astor | vocals | Meilenstein by Tom Astor | 1998 | ||||
"Dreaming My Dreams" | Mike Auldridge | vocals | Reynolds | 3:01 | Mike Auldridge by Mike Auldridge | 1976 | [5] | |
"Appalachian Rain" | Matraca Berg | vocals | Matraca Berg, Samoset | 3:43 | Lying to the Moon by Matraca Berg | 1990 | [6] | |
"Only a Woman's Heart" | Mary Black | vocals | Eleanor McEvoy | 3:47 | Looking Back by Mary Black | 1995 | [7] | |
"Grey Funnel Line" | Mary Black, Dolores Keane | vocals | 6:53 | Donal Lunny | Bringing It All Back Home, Vol. 2 by various artists | 1999 | [8] | |
"Sonny" | Mary Black, Dolores Keane | vocals | 4:14 | Donal Lunny | Bringing It All Back Home, Vol. 1 by various artists | 1998 | [9] | |
"Nobody's" | David Bromberg | vocals | White | 4:58 | Brian Ahern, Bernie Leadon | Midnight on the Water by David Bromberg | 1975 | [10] |
"Send Me an Angel" | Cindy Bullens | vocals | Cindy Bullens | 4:35 | Cindy Bullens | Neverland by Cindy Bullens | 2001 | [11] |
Looks great! It will fit perfecty on the new Discography page, which I might actually get around to creating this week if no one beats me to it (hint hint, please beat me to it!), and I think a similar format would work well for the rest of the new page, as well. Rivertorch 04:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
It occurs to me that the Contribution column may prove problematic. In almost every case, her contribution is a vocal (should be a handful out of hundreds that are vocal + acoustic guitar) , and there may be endless debate over what constitutes duet vocals vs. harmony vocals. We could probably live without this column, but it doesn't bother me. I like the Producer column; that's cool. Rivertorch 04:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
What about separate lists for harmony vs lead vs unverified contribution? My thought is that there are a number of Emmylou appearances where the only way you know she's there is because the liner notes say so. I'd like a way to distinguish between substantial and other appearances. Ditching the contribution column is probably a good idea. Thoughts? Rubioblanca 14:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Created the Emmylou Harris discography article (someone was begging and I had a moment of weakness). Marked with template:underconstruction. I haven't deleted anything from this article yet. Modeled on the Bob Dylan discography. Help! Rubioblanca 15:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
References
What should the threshold be for listing as a collaboration? These two Guy Clark albums are full of Emmylou:
If they are placed in the Other Appearances table they will use 12 rows vs 2 rows in the Collaborations table/list. Rubioblanca 17:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I just finished adding collaborative other appearances from the July 5 2007 version of the Emmylou Harris article. Now they need to have the rest of the data filled in. Still pending are the half dozen or so solo appearances from that list. Should they go in the same list? Perhaps at the top? Rubioblanca 17:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to make a seperate footnote section at the bottom of the Other Appearances that would just contain extended notes. I can't use the "ref" tag because those are collected in the references section and don't know how to collect from the note_label template. Anyone have an example of multiple notes sections that we can crib. (I rejected the superscript hack from the charted singles table because the note - text link is maintained by hand). The Allison Krauss entry is the testbed.
Also, I noticed there is a liner notes template and style requested for using such references. Sigh! How soon do we need to comply? Rubioblanca 18:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Tom Astor is a German country singer (not a typo) and has an article in the German wikipedia. I am not sure of the cross wiki (transwiki) linking policy and whether or not to create a soft redirect. Anyone with more knowldege of how to do this? Rubioblanca 05:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I think I finished grabbing all of the formerly deleted other appearances from the Emmylou Harris article. I used content from the archived articles dated July 5 and September 21 2007. Did I get them all?
If I did, I think the next stage is to walk through all of the entries and validate them against All Music Guide. I'm also check cmt.com and two online music stores (amazon and cd universe) to validate data. If I actually have one of the discs I also check the liner notes. This takes 5-15 minutes per song depending on obscurity. With around 200 entries (about 30 validated so far) there's a lot of work left. I'll commit to at least 2/day (hopefully more). Anyone else want to jump on this? Rubioblanca 05:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to add the three relevant songs from this album but am not sure where to put them since we're alphabetizing by collaborator(s). It is not strictly a Kate and Anna McGarrigle album. How about "various artists"? Which leads to another question: how inclusive do you think we should be on video and film appearances? The video release of The McGarrigle Hour features Emmylou on exactly one song. (P.S. You all are doing a fantastic job on this page. Thanks for all the hard work.) Rivertorch 06:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser. You're probably familiar with The McGarrigle Hour: on two of the three songs featuring Emmylou, she sings with Kate and Anna, while the third features lead vocals from several people besides Emmylou. Oh, well . . . I'll figure it out. Rivertorch 17:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Not sure about "All I Left Behind." Emmylou has had some dealings with the McGarrigles for a long time, recently and notably on Stumble Into Grace. (Sorry about the curiouser; I'm channeling Lewis Carroll today. I only meant there seems to be an endless array of twists and turns in the discography project.) Rivertorch 03:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Emmylou appears on Jonathan Edwards Rockin' Chair album (1976). She's credited at the album level with Acoustic guitar and Supporting vocals. She could be on all tracks, since it's an Ahern produced album, but listening to the album I could not positively identify her voice (I think she's part of the chorus that backs all of the songs). How should we treat albums like this? There are around 50 appearances not yet in the listing and many of them do not list participation by specific song. The discography appears to be making decent progress. Thanks for cleaning up after me (specifically Rivertorch and Wisekwai); if I don't have the album, I'm relying on All Music for information and that means an extra level for mistakes to creep in. Rubioblanca 22:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Currently the entry for Willie Nelson's "'Til I Gain Control Again" lists another album containing the song. This presents a small quandry. Many of the other songs in the list can be found on multiple albums. There are at least 3 copies of "Evangeline" with The Band available on greatest hits compilations, as well as the 3 or so different versions of The Last Waltz itself. I've been using (as best I can) the first instance of a performance. So, the question is: Should we include other pressings of the same performance in the listing? And, if so, how should they be formatted? Rubioblanca 00:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Emmylou has a CD called Artist's Choice: Emmylou Harris It's a set of songs selected by Emmylou as important to her, but without her as part of the performance. She writes about each of the 16 cuts and what is means to her. What do we do with it? She's also written liner notes a few times on albums she otherwise had no participation with. Should these authorships be listed? Rubioblanca 01:10, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm baffled by this one and can find no reference for it. The allmusic page doesn't help. I'm assuming the Be Here to Love Me CD is based on the film, which I don't recall hearing Emmylou sing in (although she is mentioned a couple times). TVZ may have re-recorded the song with Emmylou or duetted with her at a concert that was taped, but he usually sang that one solo. Anybody have liner notes or otherwise know? Rivertorch 04:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Added info but didn't put Notes link(s) in. Allmusic just says "Carter" for songwriter. I believe it's Maybelle, not A.P. or any other Carter. Do you think this is an acceptable citation: [1] ? Rivertorch 04:53, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Oh. I missed that link. I'm on dial-up, and sometimes All Music pages don't load completely for me. Rivertorch 16:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
The following list of albums credit Emmylou as a performer at All Music Guide, but may not specify tracks (I haven't checked many of these). So we know she's on the album (barring All Music errors) but need to check other resources to find more data. There are another 30 or so songs that I can check (have to dig into those stored boxes) that I haven't included here, which I intend to tackle first. On at least one of these (Jonathan Edwards: Rockin' Chair) the liner notes don't help. For the others, I suggest that if you can successfully add the entry to the Other Appeareances tables, or verify that what is on the album has already been listed from a previous pressing, then please delete the line from this list. If your {non-original} research turns up no further information, please note that fact (I bracketted 'liner notes' for Edwards' Rockin' Chair). How do we list albums that we can only credit at the album level? (Suggestion: separate table section) At onset, there are 60 single artist albums and 14 various artists albums. While I tried to weed out obvious compilations, some have surely crept in (both of the Buck Owens' albums look like compilations but maybe they list the original source). Please help if you can. Rubioblanca 16:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
The initial format is year : album artist Emmylou credits [comments]
1992 : Beyond the Season Garth Brooks Choir, Chorus1982 : Walk On Karen Brooks Guitar, VocalsAdded without track information2006 : Nashville Solomon Burke VocalsOne track, "We're Gonna Hold On", added to list 1998 : Howlin' at the Moon Sam Bush2002 : Johnny Cash & Friends Johnny Cash Performerredundant compilation 1979 : Right or Wrong Rosanne Cash Vocals, Harmony Vocals 1977 : Two Sides to Every Story Gene Clark Vocals 1993 : Traditional The Desert Rose Band Performer1995 : George Ducas George Ducas ProducerHarris did not produce this album 1999 : Mountain Steve Earle/The Del McCoury Band Harmony Vocals1976 : Rockin' Chair Jonathan Edwards Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar, VocalsAdded (no songs known) 1977 : Sail Boat Jonathan Edwards Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar, Vocals1999 : See What You Want to See Radney Foster Vocals, Vocals (bckgr), PerformerAdded 1995 : Makin' a Mess: Bob Gibson Sings Shel Silverstein Bob Gibson Vocals (bckgr)1983 : Turn Me Loose Vince Gill Vocals (bckgr)already in discography 1987 : Way Back Home Vince Gill Vocals (bckgr)1989 : When I Call Your Name Vince Gill Vocals (bckgr)added1994 : Vince Gill & Friends Vince Gill Vocals (bckgr)compilation 2000 : One Endless Night Jimmie Dale Gilmore Vocals 1977 : Till the End Vern Gosdin Vocals (bckgr) 2004 : Impossible Dream Patty Griffin Vocals (bckgr)2002 : Winter Marquee Nanci Griffith Harmony Vocalsadded "Goodnight New York" 1987 : Spring Training Carl Jackson Vocals, Harmony Vocals 1983 : It's Only Rock'n'roll Waylon Jennings Vocals 1993 : Talk About Love The Judds Vocals (bckgr), Performer 1996 : Sling Blade Daniel Lanois/Various Artists Guitar, Vocals, Performer2000 : Hotcakes & Outtakes: 30 Years of Little Feat Little Feat VocalsNothing new2002 : Bluegrass and White Snow: A Mountain Christmas Patty Loveless Vocals (bckgr)added 1994 : Let Them Talk Kate MacKenzie Vocals 2005 : McGarrigle Christmas Hour Kate & Anna McGarrigle Vocals, Choir, Chorus 1995 : Womanly Arts Liz Meyer Vocals 1995 : Your Love and Other Lies Buddy Miller Vocals 1997 : Poison Love Buddy Miller Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals2004 : Love Snuck Up Buddy & Julie Miller Vocalscompilation 2004 : Universal United House of Prayer Buddy Miller Vocals 1993 : Orphans and Angels Julie Miller Performer2007 : My Last Days on Earth 1981-1994 Bill Monroe Vocals, Tenor (Vocal)compilation1992 : Buck Owens Collection (1959-1990) Buck Owens Guitar, Harmony Vocals, Performercompilation1996 : Half a Buck: Buck Owens' Greatest Duets Buck Owens Performercompilation2006 : Complete Reprise Sessions Gram Parsons Vocals, Liner Notes, Author, Mixing, Compilation ProducerAdded many alternate versions of GP/Grievous Angel 1993 : Slow Dancing with the Moon Dolly Parton Harmony Vocals, Performer 2007 : Dolly Parton and Friends Dolly Parton Guest Appearance1996 : Secret of Life Gretchen Peters Vocalsadded1977 : Aimin' to Please Mary Kay Place Guitar, VocalsAdded (no songs)1976 : Peter Pringle Peter Pringle Vocals (bckgr)Added without track information1999 : Willin' Jon Randall Harmony VocalsAdded1994 : Cowboys in Love Riders In The SkyAdded "One Has My Name (The Other Has My Heart)" 1982 : Get Closer Linda Ronstadt Vocals 2004 : Incessant Spinning [Bonus Track] Luthea Salom Author 2006 : Made of Sand Gove Scrivenor Vocals, Guest Appearance 1974 : Tarzana Kid John Sebastian Vocals 2007 : Different Roads The Seldom Scene Author 1979 : Sweet Temptation Ricky Skaggs Vocals1992 : Saturday Night & Sunday Morning Ralph Stanley PerformerAdded "Great High Mountain" w/ Judy Marshall2007 : Slidin' Home John Starling and Carolina Star Harmony VocalsAdded "In My Hour of Darkness" 1999 : Pilgrim Marty Stuart Vocals 2000 : Teddy Thompson Teddy Thompson Vocals (bckgr) 1998 : Popular Demons Greg Trooper Vocals2000 : Real Live Woman Trisha Yearwood Harmony VocalsAdded1992 : Chrome Dreams Neil Young VocalsThis is a bootleg
1990 : Lennon & McCartney Songbook Various Artists PerformerElite Hotel cut1992 : Stained Glass Hour: Bluegrass and Old-Timey Gospel Mu Various Artists Baritone (Vocal)Added "Crying Holy"1995 : Amazing Grace [Sparrow] Various Artists Arranger, Producer, PerformerAngel Band Cut1996 : Bruce Springsteen Songbook Various Artists PerformerAt the Ryman cut1997 : Inner Flame: Rainer Ptacek Tribute Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals, PerformerOne-off contribution, added to list1998 : Chuck B. Covered: A Tribute to Chuck Berry Various Artists PerformerC'est La Vie from Luxury Liner1998 : Tammy Wynette...Remembered Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Percussion, Producer, PerformerAdded "Golden Ring"1998 : Treasures Left Behind: Remembering Kate Wolf Various Artists Guitar (Electric), Vocals, Liner NotesOne song listed1999 : White Mansions/Legend of Jesse James Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals, SingerAdded 2 songs2001 : Poet: A Tribute to Townes Van Zandt Various Artists PerformerOne song, already listed.2003 : Just Because I'm a Woman: The Songs of Dolly Parton Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Liner Notesfrom Quarter Moon2005 : Telluride Bluegrass Festival: Thirty Years [DVD] Various Artists Guitar, VocalsAdded 2006 : Prairie Home Companion Duets Various Artists Performer2006 : Tribute to Nicolette Larson: Lotta Lova Concert Various Artists Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals, Vocals (bckgr), AuthorStill some background vocal credits that can't be sussed out
There are some famous bootlegs referenced on Emmylou's musical friends page, specifically Neil Young's Chrome Dreams with outtakes from American Stars and Bars (not to be confused with the new official Chrome Dreams II) and an album titled Emmylou Harris and James Burton. There is also a version of libelous version of Dylan's "Hurricane" (Desire sessions) with Emmylou's vocals. Additionally, there are at least a dozen Emmylou Harris and the Hot Band bootlegs from 1975-6 alone. My thought is: bootlegs do not belong in the discography, but I would like to check for consensus. Rubioblanca 16:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
There are a number of albums which include Emmylou Harris, but that do not on either the liner notes, AMG page, emmylou.net or as yet discovered other available resource list her specific contribution. I would like to add these album level credits to the other appearances section with '?' for the title, composer and length columns. Any thoughts or (even better) better suggestions? Rubioblanca 16:28, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
WP:CHARTS was referenced in a recent change to the album charts. I do not believe it applies (or should apply) to this article as that guideline appears directed at chart tables included with a single album article and not a discography. I think the removal of peak position information is unwarranted and eliminates information not available easily unless it is included in the tables. The relevant line from the driective is: "Weeks spent at peak position should be mentioned within the article text and not inserted into the table." Including any such text in the context of a discography would mean replicating prose that belongs in album articles and lead to (I believe) unreadable text. Ergo, if it is included here it should be in the tables. Inclusion of the data serves as an additional means to compare album popularity making it useful and thus deserving of reinstatement. Comments? Rubioblanca 13:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I've read WP:CHARTS a half dozen times (as well as the talk page). Mention is made of barring "weeks at peak position" from tables. NO mention is made of overall weeks on chart. Discographies are only mentioned in passing on the CHARTS talk page (as a place to potentially place information forbidden from album and song articles). The guideline takes no position on the deleted data. The rationale used to delete the weeks on chart data from the article DOES NOT EXIST, so I will revert the changes. By the way, I am mostly irked that data I spent time gathering was removed without discussion and that the reason cited didn't actually exist. I also don't choose my music based on chart position (although I did just buy Springsteen's Magic which is quite popular at the moment). I added the information because, in my judgement, it has some use in interpreting Ms. Harris' career. Rubioblanca 04:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
A Recent change shrunk the table widths in the album section (rationale was for neatness). The original widths were set for consistency (another type of neatness) as per Wisekwai's work with the other appearances tables. So, which is neater:
Tables all the same width (approximately).
Tables as narrow as possible (use width="auto")
Comments? Rubioblanca 13:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
A "too long" tag has been placed. I suppose the next step would be to split out the "other appearances" tables? — Wise Kwai 14:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Is it time to remove the 'Under Construction' tag? Rubioblanca ( talk) 17:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed the tag. There are still 50-60 albums to add to collaborations. I'll keep at it as I am able to locate liner notes or other viable data resources. For some of them, I already know what the song is, but the resource is not appropriate (e.g. Amazon product page). Oh, well. Rubioblanca ( talk) 18:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
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For example - Emmylou Harris is not credited on the label of "Love Hurts" single. She is a session player there. You cant call it her guest single (as we cant call it James Burton guest single for example only because he played guitar on this one). Same for "Hangin' On", "Yesterday's Gone", "Thing About You" - she's not credited there as an artist, she just session vocalist. See 45cat.com or discogs.com
On the other hand, "That Lovin' You Feeling Again" single label says "Roy Orbison & Emmylou Harris". So this single is equal partnership (collaboration), not guest appearance (guests usually credited as "feat" or "with" like in "Play Together Again, Again" or "We Believe In Happy Endings" singles for example). Same thing for "Wild Montana Skies" (John Denver and Emmylou Harris), "The Sweetest Gift" (Linda Ronstadt and Emmylou Harris), "All Fall Down" (George Jones and Emmylou Harris), "Love Don't Care" (Charlie Louvin and Emmylou Harris). She is not a "guest" there.
In the same logic "If I Needed You" is a collaboration single, not her own, because it labeled as "Emmylou Harris and Don Williams" (unlike "Gulf Coast Highway" which labeled "Emmylou Harris with Willie Nelson").
And the one last thing: She did't sell 5.5 millions in the US. There is no such info in the RIAA source. You can't just summarize 9 gold albums + one platinum as exactly 5.5. millions. Gold album means at least 500 thousands. She could sell 600 thousands, 700 thousands and more. Same logic for platinum records. So the only correct way is to state that she sold 8 gold solo albums and 1 gold and one platinum collaboration albums. Additionally there are plenty of reliable sources say she sold 15 millions worldwide - it could be used too-- Kursebi ( talk) 12:35, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
UPD. I see two possible resonable ways to categorisze her singles. The fist by album type:
The second by type of credit/role she got on the particular single:
Right now I do not see a clear criteria in the Singles section-- Kursebi ( talk) 16:54, 30 June 2019 (UTC).