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What happened to him during the war? What did he do from 1945 to 1972? Lestrade ( talk) 16:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)Lestrade
Wikipedia editors often have trouble with the truth. If he was declared honorary aryan, then he was Jewish. Just as Field Marshall Erhard Milch was jewish. Its not that difficult to find out if someone like Maurice was jewish, but it poses uncomfortable questions, so wikipedia prefers just to speculate, indicating they don't know. They don't want to know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.55.222.110 ( talk) 23:35, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
In fact maurice grandfather was jewish and maurice himself declared ehrenarier honorary aryan.-- 85.180.42.103 07:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Every source on Emil Maurice states clearly he was a General in the SS. His rank of Oberfuhrer was in the Allgemeine-SS where, even during World War II, Oberfuhrers were permitted to wear the heavy silver cords and great coats of general officers. This was different from the Waffen-SS where, yes, it was considered a senior colonel position. The key point here is that the Allgemeine and the Waffen-SS were almost too completely separate and distinct service branches with different promotion criteria and different senority systems. - OberRanks ( talk) 22:43, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
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help)Kierzek ( talk) 15:36, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
What is the correct German pronunciation of Emil Maurice? 82.36.88.163 ( talk) 22:17, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Maurice was by no means considered to be a Mischling according to the Nuremberg Laws. It was his great-grandfather who was Jewish so according to the Nuremberg Laws he would have been considered an "Aryan" and was eligible to be a Reich citizen. His Jewish ancestry was not far back enough though for him to be considered to be an "Aryan" according to the standards of the SS. According to Raul Hilberg's The Destruction of the European Jews he was a Mischling of 'second degree'.--
Sein und Zeit (
talk) 16:18, 25 July 2017 (UTC) Banned editor English Patriot Man.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 11:41, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
What is the source that Emil Maurice asked Hitler's niece to marry him? Most every text on the subject states they were at the level of casual flirting and simply dating. Hitler's outrage stemmed from an incident at the Berghof where he saw Maurice kiss his niece. The marriage proposal info appears also to be unsourced in the article. Thoughts? - O.R. Comms 17:19, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
A very reliable source (Becoming Hitler: The Making of a Nazi by history professor Thomas Weber) states that Maurice was only 1/8 Jewish (via his great-grandfather). So the statement about him being a "Mischling" should be removed since the term "Mischling" only referred to people with at least one Jewish grandparent. It is also undue to have that in the lede; his small amount of Jewish ancestry is covered sufficiently in the body of the article. Jrheller1 ( talk) 07:29, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
OK, here's what I meant by Weber being problematic: his entire section on Maurice (pp.178-180) is cited to a single source, multiple pages of the book Des Führers bester Freund by Anna Marie Sigmund, published in 2003. I know nothing about this book, but for an historian to base all this information – Maurice's Jewish heritage, Himmler trying to drum him out of the SS, Hitler standing up for Maurice, and then, once the war started, freezing him out – on a single source, with no other supporting citations seems highly unusual to me. I've checked Kershaw, Bullock, Fest and Shirer, all of them have multiple mentions of Maurice – his job as Hitler's chauffeur and secretary (relieved of the latter by Hess), his early command of the SS, his possible love affair with Geri Rabaul, his role in the Night of the Long Knives – but none of them mention his Jewish background, Himmler trying to drive him out, or anything else Weber reports via Sigmund. Padfield's biography of Himmler (612 pages of text) doesn't even mention Maurice, nor does Reitlinger's The SS: Alibi of a Nation or Evans' The Third Reich in Power.
I think that makes all this material suspect, so I'm going to go through the article and see what needs to be done in terms of cleaning it up until we have sources that confirm what Sigmund/Weber are claiming. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 22:57, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
I added a lot of date specific content to the article and it was deleted with the backhanded explanation "article already states he was a member; don't need everything and the kitchen sink". Is there a rule as to exactly how much information is allowed in an encyclopaedia? If someone is happy to spend their own time adding content, what's the point if it's going to be deleted because someone thinks it's not worthy/helpful/acceptable? Do I have to run it past someone before it's added? If so, how would I go about that please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Troy von Tempest ( talk • contribs) 04:53, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
I believe that the aspect ratio of the infobox image in this article is such that presented at the infobox's default value it is too large, the visual equivalent of SHOUTING. I suggest that the current size is more appropriate. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 02:05, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
The name 'Emil' (many speakers of German are familiar with Kästner's children's book "Emil und die Detektive") is stressed on the first syllable in German. Both vowels are long. Wathiik ( talk) 14:09, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Emil Maurice article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
What happened to him during the war? What did he do from 1945 to 1972? Lestrade ( talk) 16:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)Lestrade
Wikipedia editors often have trouble with the truth. If he was declared honorary aryan, then he was Jewish. Just as Field Marshall Erhard Milch was jewish. Its not that difficult to find out if someone like Maurice was jewish, but it poses uncomfortable questions, so wikipedia prefers just to speculate, indicating they don't know. They don't want to know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.55.222.110 ( talk) 23:35, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
In fact maurice grandfather was jewish and maurice himself declared ehrenarier honorary aryan.-- 85.180.42.103 07:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Every source on Emil Maurice states clearly he was a General in the SS. His rank of Oberfuhrer was in the Allgemeine-SS where, even during World War II, Oberfuhrers were permitted to wear the heavy silver cords and great coats of general officers. This was different from the Waffen-SS where, yes, it was considered a senior colonel position. The key point here is that the Allgemeine and the Waffen-SS were almost too completely separate and distinct service branches with different promotion criteria and different senority systems. - OberRanks ( talk) 22:43, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
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cite book}}
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cite book}}
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help){{
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help)Kierzek ( talk) 15:36, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
What is the correct German pronunciation of Emil Maurice? 82.36.88.163 ( talk) 22:17, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Maurice was by no means considered to be a Mischling according to the Nuremberg Laws. It was his great-grandfather who was Jewish so according to the Nuremberg Laws he would have been considered an "Aryan" and was eligible to be a Reich citizen. His Jewish ancestry was not far back enough though for him to be considered to be an "Aryan" according to the standards of the SS. According to Raul Hilberg's The Destruction of the European Jews he was a Mischling of 'second degree'.--
Sein und Zeit (
talk) 16:18, 25 July 2017 (UTC) Banned editor English Patriot Man.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 11:41, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
What is the source that Emil Maurice asked Hitler's niece to marry him? Most every text on the subject states they were at the level of casual flirting and simply dating. Hitler's outrage stemmed from an incident at the Berghof where he saw Maurice kiss his niece. The marriage proposal info appears also to be unsourced in the article. Thoughts? - O.R. Comms 17:19, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
A very reliable source (Becoming Hitler: The Making of a Nazi by history professor Thomas Weber) states that Maurice was only 1/8 Jewish (via his great-grandfather). So the statement about him being a "Mischling" should be removed since the term "Mischling" only referred to people with at least one Jewish grandparent. It is also undue to have that in the lede; his small amount of Jewish ancestry is covered sufficiently in the body of the article. Jrheller1 ( talk) 07:29, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
OK, here's what I meant by Weber being problematic: his entire section on Maurice (pp.178-180) is cited to a single source, multiple pages of the book Des Führers bester Freund by Anna Marie Sigmund, published in 2003. I know nothing about this book, but for an historian to base all this information – Maurice's Jewish heritage, Himmler trying to drum him out of the SS, Hitler standing up for Maurice, and then, once the war started, freezing him out – on a single source, with no other supporting citations seems highly unusual to me. I've checked Kershaw, Bullock, Fest and Shirer, all of them have multiple mentions of Maurice – his job as Hitler's chauffeur and secretary (relieved of the latter by Hess), his early command of the SS, his possible love affair with Geri Rabaul, his role in the Night of the Long Knives – but none of them mention his Jewish background, Himmler trying to drive him out, or anything else Weber reports via Sigmund. Padfield's biography of Himmler (612 pages of text) doesn't even mention Maurice, nor does Reitlinger's The SS: Alibi of a Nation or Evans' The Third Reich in Power.
I think that makes all this material suspect, so I'm going to go through the article and see what needs to be done in terms of cleaning it up until we have sources that confirm what Sigmund/Weber are claiming. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 22:57, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
I added a lot of date specific content to the article and it was deleted with the backhanded explanation "article already states he was a member; don't need everything and the kitchen sink". Is there a rule as to exactly how much information is allowed in an encyclopaedia? If someone is happy to spend their own time adding content, what's the point if it's going to be deleted because someone thinks it's not worthy/helpful/acceptable? Do I have to run it past someone before it's added? If so, how would I go about that please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Troy von Tempest ( talk • contribs) 04:53, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
I believe that the aspect ratio of the infobox image in this article is such that presented at the infobox's default value it is too large, the visual equivalent of SHOUTING. I suggest that the current size is more appropriate. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 02:05, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
The name 'Emil' (many speakers of German are familiar with Kästner's children's book "Emil und die Detektive") is stressed on the first syllable in German. Both vowels are long. Wathiik ( talk) 14:09, 12 November 2023 (UTC)