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Archive 1 |
I just added a couple more sources Deku-shrub ( talk) 13:16, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
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Hi all. I’m the Head of Content at Elysium. After reading through the Elysium entry and attempting to fully understand Wikipedia’s guidelines for editing, I want to offer some suggestions for edits to this entry. These are in the spirit of removing opinion/POV and creating an entry that’s objectively valuable to Wikipedia users. Thanks for taking the time to review them.
+ I edited the intro for clarity, moving the description of the product to a separate paragraph and explaining NAD in the first mention:
Elysium Health is a dietary supplement company founded by geneticist and molecular biologist Leonard Guarente. The company is headquartered in New York City. In February 2015, they announced a product called Basis, which they state will improve cellular health. The supplement is formulated based on chemicals shown to lengthen the lives of mice and worms in controlled laboratory environments. [1]
+ Here I’ve edited the sentence about FDA approval because the existing sentence expresses an opinion. As the footnotes demonstrate, there isn’t an approval process for dietary supplements, so it’s analogous to saying something like, “Jim’s bicycle riding on the street isn’t approved by local law enforcement.” There are rules that govern how he may operate the bicycle, but because there is no approval process it mischaracterizes Jim’s behavior (as illegal) when in fact it is extra-legal.
The pill, Basis, contains nicotinamide riboside (NR), a chemical precursor to nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD), which is used in metabolic reactions [2], and pterostilbene, a polyphenol found in blueberries. They are selling the product as a dietary supplement directly to consumers for $60 per month ($50 with a subscription). Because it is a dietary supplement, Basis does not require FDA approval. [3] [4]
+ Suggest adding the following sections.
+ History: Most company pages, from Tesla to Nootrobox, have a history section, so it seems reasonable to add one here. Also relevant here is notability: Elysium has been mentioned in high profile publications frequently in the past two months, including Time, The New Yorker, The Boston Globe, and The Atlantic. These mentions in the media are part of an ongoing, public dialogue about the science of aging and the company, specifically, and themselves seem to justify an expansion of this stub and the history section. I’ve included here the mentions of specific members of the advisory board because 1) they are very public and high profile figures in the scientific community, among them seven Nobel Prize winners, whose research and guidance are essential to the Elysium business, and 2) this association with the company has been discussed in the media on multiple occasions (cited below).
The company was founded in 2014 by Eric Marcotulli, a former partner at Sequoia Capital, Dan Alminana, a former vice president at JP Morgan Securities, and geneticist and molecular biologist Leonard Guarente, director of the Glenn Laboratory for the Science of Aging at MIT. [5] [6] The company structure includes a scientific advisory board of researchers and clinicians, including George Church, Dariush Mozaffarian, Sir Richard Roberts, Aaron Ciechanover, Eric Kandel, Martin Karplus, Thomas Südhof, Jack Szostak, and Paul Modrich. [7] [8] [9] [10] In 2015, Elysium began selling the dietary supplement Basis, a combination of nicotinamide riboside and pterostilbene. [11] In 2016, Elysium raised $22 million in series B financing led by venture capital firm General Catalyst. [12] The same year, the company also announced topline results from a clinical trial to evaluate the safety and health benefits of Basis among elderly subjects. [13] [14]
+ Academic partnerships: I’ve added three partnerships with Oxford, Harvard, and Cambridge. Given the high profile nature of these universities, frequently ranked among the best in the world, these partnerships seem like relevant information for an encyclopedia-style entry. There’s also precedent: If, for instance, you like at the Pfizer page there is a section on the company’s partnership with Bar-Ilan University.
In 2017, Elysium entered into a research partnership with Harvard University to study cellular function and aging. The first project, led by Wendy Garrett M.D., Ph.D., professor of Immunology and Infectious Diseases at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, will focus on the gut microbiome. [15] Also in 2017, Elysium partnered with the Milner Therapeutics Institute at the University of Cambridge, UK, to study aging, cognitive health, metabolic health, and general well-being. [16] Later the same year, the University of Oxford and Elysium established the Oxford-Elysium Prize Fellowship in Cellular Health, a three-year award to study the “understanding of fundamental physiological processes that underlie normal cellular health and ways in which these processes might be better measured and promoted.” [17]
Thanks again for taking the time to look at these edits. Jeremy Berger ( Talk)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Elysium Health is not an "anti-aging" company and their pill, BASIS, is not an "anti-aging" pill. Numerous PR stories took that spin but it is completely inaccurate based on what they promote on their website and social channels. Additionally, the page does not site the actual compounds which are in the product. Not siting them and discussing their implications is misleading. A helpful research source on the impact of NAD is: http://web.mit.edu/biology/guarente/references/15.pdf
Finally, the scientific advisory board is much larger than the five Nobel Prize Winners listed and should be presented as such. The scientific advisory board serves in an advisory capacity so directly linking their work to BASIS or Elysium Health is a bit misleading. Feel free to contact me with any questions Samantha Taube ( talk)
@ CorporateM: @ Doc James: and @ Deku-shrub: Thank you for reviewing my request. I understand you can only use the sources that are available. With that said, I still believe there are still some mistakes and updates that can be made in this post. Please find below my proposed updates along with relevant sources. Thank you for your time and consideration.
I hope you will consider updating the post so that it is a more comprehensive and accurate depiction of Elysium Health. Please feel free to reach out with any questions. Thanks!
References
-- Samantha Taube ( Talk) 13:56, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Just going to drop this here for review and potential inclusion. Currently, the article just has the POV of Chromadex.
Morphh (talk) 16:02, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I have a COI, but wanted to suggest some additions to the page to give it some more substance.
Could we add a section about educational partnerships?
Elysium has entered into partnerships with some institutions including Harvard University, University of Cambridge and University of Oxford to fund research projects.
Here are the sources:
2600:1017:B807:9F1B:891C:CE89:8588:948F ( talk) 21:06, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
I have no interest in your legs nor in wikilawyering. I do have an interest in giving WEIGHT where it is DUE per secondary sources per the NPOV policy. Please suggest what content you would like to see in the article about the dispute, based on independent, reliable <secondary sources. Jytdog ( talk) 02:35, 2 September 2017 (UTC) (guess i need to say this again Jytdog ( talk) 04:11, 2 September 2017 (UTC))
Would need a good ref for this "scientifically-sound natural health products" Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 18:59, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
"Along with other human trials into NR, [1] Elysium Health has conducted their own trial on if their product increases NAD+ levels in humans. [2] [1] [3]"
Does not really say anything?
References
-- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 21:32, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello! I work at Elysium Health. I am proposing that the text "; the two ingredients could be purchased separately for a total of $25." be removed.
According to the cited article, the total of the referenced products that can allegedly be used to get the same supplement dosages as Elysium's product, Basis, is $31 ($19 + $12), not $25. The reason the original editor wrote $25 is likely because the price on Amazon for the referenced nicotinamide riboside (NR) supplement went down since the TechCrunch article was published, so the editor is using the Amazon product page as a reference for the price. Even then, the referenced NR supplement provides 100mg of the supplement whereas Basis provides 250mg, which means you would have to buy $45 worth of the NR product to get _at least_ as much NR as Basis, bringing that total to $57 for a comparable supply. Alternatively, an editor could just change the text to read $57 and add the Amazon product pages as references, but I am not sure that Amazon product pages are considered a WP:SOURCE.
Thanks! ~ Rick305 t· c 20:37, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Deleted I removed all the information on prices, per WP:NOTCATALOG Regards, Spintendo ᔦᔭ 20:52, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Even better. Thanks! ~ Rick305 t· c 20:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
I've reworded it so it's just a statement of fact regarding their conducting a human clinical trial to study levels of NAD+, which can easily be sourced to the existing references. As for the FDA, I think it's important if we're going to chide them for avoiding the FDA, we include that it's not something the FDA would even review as aging is not a disease or condition. The only thing that can be done is already being done Chromadex, which is to test NR on a disease that has similar symptoms. I think it's fair to include that since it's the main ingredient of Basis and it's something the sources also cover. Morphh (talk) 14:09, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
if we're going to chide them for avoiding the FDA, we include that it's not something the FDA would even review as aging is not a disease or conditionand
If we want to include points on price, then we should follow up with the rebuttal pov regarding qualityand
I think it's fair to include...which have nothing to do with NPOV but are clear effort to try to "sell" and "balance" to benefit the company. Your edits do the same. Jytdog ( talk) 17:08, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Can we take this one step at a time for the benefit of uninvolved editors, please? As far as I can work out the dispute principally revolves around this text:
The FDA doesn't consider aging a disease, but the main ingredient in Basis, nicotinamide riboside, has been submitted for FDA approval by ChromoDex as a way to treat a rare, genetic disease in kids called Cockayne syndrome, which has symptoms similar to aging. Along with at least 12 other human trials, Elysium Health has conducted their own human clinical trial to study the efficacy of their product in increasing NAD+ levels.
sourced to:
Is that correct? I can see there may be further issues, but perhaps we can make progress on this one.
I have some concerns with the neutrality of that wording.
First, neither of those sources are high quality secondary medical sources, so are unsuitable for making any claim – or even an inference – about the efficacy of any drug in treating any condition.
Secondly, the FDA's opinion on ageing is immaterial; the majority of our readers live in countries where the FDA has no jurisdiction, and MEDRS is very clear about the quality of sourcing required when discussing the use of any intervention for treatment of any kind. It is not acceptable to lead readers to conclude that because a drug is being tested, that it may be effective – particularly when the assumption is made that any effect on an a condition with symptoms similar to ageing will then have the same effect on ageing. Thousand of trials take place that show no effect or are inconclusive. We require trials to have been completed and analysed by independent third-parties before we deem their conclusions worthy of inclusion in our articles. Jumping the gun in the way that this text does is unacceptable.
Thirdly, phrases such as "clinical trial to study the efficacy of their product" mislead the reader by making the assumption that there is an efficacy to study. If you were to write that trials have been made to investigate whether their product has any efficacy or not, that would be closer to what an unbiased observer could deduce from the sources. Even then, I'm doubtful about the WEIGHT being given to a few trials. This is an encyclopedia, not a news journal, and our articles wait for results and conclusions confirmed by secondary sources before reporting on them.
In summary, I wouldn't support the inclusion of any of that text, based on the current sources. When we have reviews and meta-analyses of completed trials, we might be in a better position to state something. -- RexxS ( talk) 19:21, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Along with other human trials into NR, Elysium Health has conducted their own trial on if their product increases NAD+ levels in humans.
there are no "sides" here. There is writing an encyclopedia and there is advocacy. These are different missions. Jytdog ( talk) 21:37, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Primary sources should generally not be used for medical content – as such sources often include unreliable or preliminary information..." and even says why. Consensus here supports this and it makes sense. This is not your regular run-of-the-mill topic. What is published in this article has implications for the general public:
Wikipedia's articles are not medical advice, but are widely used as a source for health information." Wikipedia cannot imply this has reverse-ageing effects based on the available sources --- Steve Quinn ( talk) 06:50, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello again. I work for Elysium Health. I am not being commissioned directly by them for these changes. I am simply interested in the article not having incorrect information.
There are a lot of statements in this article that are not really accurate based on the sources being references. Some of them are inaccurate because they are outdated and there is other information out there to show that it is out of date.
I have structured it as multiple request edits so each one can be tackled separately. Hopefully, this is a useful way of structuring the requests so that conversations about each point can be organized accordingly and not get lost if it turns into lengthy discussion. Feedback is appreciated! ~ Rick305 t· c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
I request that ", and is pursuing a similar "anti-aging" marketing path as did Sirtris Pharmaceuticals with resveratrol.
" be removed. The reference
[1] mentions Sirtris Pharmaceuticals only in that one of the founders of Elysium Health was previously involved with that organization. The company has never said, nor does the article say, that Sirtris's "marketing path" was being followed or that their history is of any influence to how Elysium Health markets its products or itself. ~
Rick305
t·
c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I request that "Like other companies in the supplement industry, Elysium marketed the product heavily on social media.
" be removed.
The referenced article [2] mentions the word "social" only once and in a completely different context than "social media." Also, you can say about a lot of companies that they heavily market on social media as it is now a normal channel of advertisement. That is not unique to Elysium Health and seems to be irrelevant. ~ Rick305 t· c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I request that "It buys the ingredients in Basis from a company called ChromaDex, that as of December 2016 sold the two ingredients to other supplement companies that also marketed products containing them.
" be removed or updated for relevance and
WP:RELTIME.
Elysium Health no longer purchases its ingredients from ChromaDex. You can see that in one of the TechCrunch articles referenced: "Elysium stopped ordering from the company thereafter.
".
[3] ~
Rick305
t·
c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I request that "By selling the product as a dietary supplement, Elysium is able to avoid the lengthy process of FDA drug approval, but is restricted from marketing it as treating any disease or condition.
" be removed.
It is already mentioned in the referenced " dietary supplement" article and I don't see how the fact that a dietary supplement company doesn't need to go through the separate FDA drug approval processes is relevant or unique to Elysium Health. It is true of any dietary supplement company that sells in the United States. Elysium Health does not currently sell any product that is intended to diagnose, treat, or prevent any disease, just like any other company whose only products are dietary supplements. ~ Rick305 t· c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I request that "Elysium recruited the head of manufacturing
" be updated. According to the article referenced, Elysium did not hire their head of manufacturing but hired their "VP of business development
." ~
Rick305
t·
c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
References
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I work for Elysium Health.
The firm "Morningside Partners" referenced in a recent edit, but it is incorrectly referenced as "Morningside Ventures"
Thanks. ~ Rick305 t· c 00:54, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
References
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I work for Elysium Health.
I'm hoping to make the article read a little bit better with more logical grouping. Here is what I propose to replace the first paragraph. It also removes the second last paragraph as it merges that paragraph with the content here:
Elysium Health is a dietary supplement company founded in 2014 by biologist Leonard Guarente, Dan Alminana, and Eric Marcotulli. [1] It is one of several companies founded at around the same time by people with backgrounds in the tech industry and Silicon Valley who saw opportunities in the health and biomedical industries. [1] [2] [3] The company is widely described as being in the anti-aging field and similar to Sirtris Pharmaceuticals, which was developing resveratrol. [1] [4] [5]
In 2015, the company started selling a dietary supplement called Basis that packages two supplements, nicotinamide riboside (NR), a form of B vitamin found in yeast, and pterostilbene, a polyphenol found in blueberries, into one capsule. [4] The company says that these two ingredients help cells make nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) and that they stimulate sirtuins. [1]References
Wallace
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Thanks. ~ Rick305 t· c 00:54, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I work for Elysium Health.
According to a reference in the Elysium Health article, the company has seven, not six, Nobel Prize winners on its advisory board. [1]
Thanks! ~ Rick305 t· c 01:05, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
References
I would shorten the article to:
Elysium Health is a dietary supplement company founded in 2014 by biologist Leonard Guarente, Dan Alminana, and Eric Marcotulli.[1] As of December 2016, Elysium had raised $26.2 million from investors including General Catalyst and Robert Nelson from ARCH Venture Partners.[8] - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) 19:30, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Do we know anything about the efficacy of their "basis" product? Thanks! -- Lbeaumont ( talk) 13:53, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Info grossly incomplete! Full disclosure of ingredients as appear on label is needed here!!!!! 76.81.251.163 ( talk) 23:59, 28 November 2018 (UTC)A-user
Press releases are not sources. Depositions are not sources. See WP:NOTRELIABLE. Please stop adding information that is not coming from a third party. ThetaFree ( talk) 00:52, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
Obviously, deposition is a source for what Elysium Health's argument is in the infringement suit Jytdoggiedog ( talk)Jytdoggiedog
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I just added a couple more sources Deku-shrub ( talk) 13:16, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. Some or all of the changes may be promotional in tone. |
The
Wikimedia Foundation's
Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see
WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see
WP:COIRESPONSE.
|
Hi all. I’m the Head of Content at Elysium. After reading through the Elysium entry and attempting to fully understand Wikipedia’s guidelines for editing, I want to offer some suggestions for edits to this entry. These are in the spirit of removing opinion/POV and creating an entry that’s objectively valuable to Wikipedia users. Thanks for taking the time to review them.
+ I edited the intro for clarity, moving the description of the product to a separate paragraph and explaining NAD in the first mention:
Elysium Health is a dietary supplement company founded by geneticist and molecular biologist Leonard Guarente. The company is headquartered in New York City. In February 2015, they announced a product called Basis, which they state will improve cellular health. The supplement is formulated based on chemicals shown to lengthen the lives of mice and worms in controlled laboratory environments. [1]
+ Here I’ve edited the sentence about FDA approval because the existing sentence expresses an opinion. As the footnotes demonstrate, there isn’t an approval process for dietary supplements, so it’s analogous to saying something like, “Jim’s bicycle riding on the street isn’t approved by local law enforcement.” There are rules that govern how he may operate the bicycle, but because there is no approval process it mischaracterizes Jim’s behavior (as illegal) when in fact it is extra-legal.
The pill, Basis, contains nicotinamide riboside (NR), a chemical precursor to nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD), which is used in metabolic reactions [2], and pterostilbene, a polyphenol found in blueberries. They are selling the product as a dietary supplement directly to consumers for $60 per month ($50 with a subscription). Because it is a dietary supplement, Basis does not require FDA approval. [3] [4]
+ Suggest adding the following sections.
+ History: Most company pages, from Tesla to Nootrobox, have a history section, so it seems reasonable to add one here. Also relevant here is notability: Elysium has been mentioned in high profile publications frequently in the past two months, including Time, The New Yorker, The Boston Globe, and The Atlantic. These mentions in the media are part of an ongoing, public dialogue about the science of aging and the company, specifically, and themselves seem to justify an expansion of this stub and the history section. I’ve included here the mentions of specific members of the advisory board because 1) they are very public and high profile figures in the scientific community, among them seven Nobel Prize winners, whose research and guidance are essential to the Elysium business, and 2) this association with the company has been discussed in the media on multiple occasions (cited below).
The company was founded in 2014 by Eric Marcotulli, a former partner at Sequoia Capital, Dan Alminana, a former vice president at JP Morgan Securities, and geneticist and molecular biologist Leonard Guarente, director of the Glenn Laboratory for the Science of Aging at MIT. [5] [6] The company structure includes a scientific advisory board of researchers and clinicians, including George Church, Dariush Mozaffarian, Sir Richard Roberts, Aaron Ciechanover, Eric Kandel, Martin Karplus, Thomas Südhof, Jack Szostak, and Paul Modrich. [7] [8] [9] [10] In 2015, Elysium began selling the dietary supplement Basis, a combination of nicotinamide riboside and pterostilbene. [11] In 2016, Elysium raised $22 million in series B financing led by venture capital firm General Catalyst. [12] The same year, the company also announced topline results from a clinical trial to evaluate the safety and health benefits of Basis among elderly subjects. [13] [14]
+ Academic partnerships: I’ve added three partnerships with Oxford, Harvard, and Cambridge. Given the high profile nature of these universities, frequently ranked among the best in the world, these partnerships seem like relevant information for an encyclopedia-style entry. There’s also precedent: If, for instance, you like at the Pfizer page there is a section on the company’s partnership with Bar-Ilan University.
In 2017, Elysium entered into a research partnership with Harvard University to study cellular function and aging. The first project, led by Wendy Garrett M.D., Ph.D., professor of Immunology and Infectious Diseases at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, will focus on the gut microbiome. [15] Also in 2017, Elysium partnered with the Milner Therapeutics Institute at the University of Cambridge, UK, to study aging, cognitive health, metabolic health, and general well-being. [16] Later the same year, the University of Oxford and Elysium established the Oxford-Elysium Prize Fellowship in Cellular Health, a three-year award to study the “understanding of fundamental physiological processes that underlie normal cellular health and ways in which these processes might be better measured and promoted.” [17]
Thanks again for taking the time to look at these edits. Jeremy Berger ( Talk)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Elysium Health is not an "anti-aging" company and their pill, BASIS, is not an "anti-aging" pill. Numerous PR stories took that spin but it is completely inaccurate based on what they promote on their website and social channels. Additionally, the page does not site the actual compounds which are in the product. Not siting them and discussing their implications is misleading. A helpful research source on the impact of NAD is: http://web.mit.edu/biology/guarente/references/15.pdf
Finally, the scientific advisory board is much larger than the five Nobel Prize Winners listed and should be presented as such. The scientific advisory board serves in an advisory capacity so directly linking their work to BASIS or Elysium Health is a bit misleading. Feel free to contact me with any questions Samantha Taube ( talk)
@ CorporateM: @ Doc James: and @ Deku-shrub: Thank you for reviewing my request. I understand you can only use the sources that are available. With that said, I still believe there are still some mistakes and updates that can be made in this post. Please find below my proposed updates along with relevant sources. Thank you for your time and consideration.
I hope you will consider updating the post so that it is a more comprehensive and accurate depiction of Elysium Health. Please feel free to reach out with any questions. Thanks!
References
-- Samantha Taube ( Talk) 13:56, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Just going to drop this here for review and potential inclusion. Currently, the article just has the POV of Chromadex.
Morphh (talk) 16:02, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I have a COI, but wanted to suggest some additions to the page to give it some more substance.
Could we add a section about educational partnerships?
Elysium has entered into partnerships with some institutions including Harvard University, University of Cambridge and University of Oxford to fund research projects.
Here are the sources:
2600:1017:B807:9F1B:891C:CE89:8588:948F ( talk) 21:06, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
I have no interest in your legs nor in wikilawyering. I do have an interest in giving WEIGHT where it is DUE per secondary sources per the NPOV policy. Please suggest what content you would like to see in the article about the dispute, based on independent, reliable <secondary sources. Jytdog ( talk) 02:35, 2 September 2017 (UTC) (guess i need to say this again Jytdog ( talk) 04:11, 2 September 2017 (UTC))
Would need a good ref for this "scientifically-sound natural health products" Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 18:59, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
"Along with other human trials into NR, [1] Elysium Health has conducted their own trial on if their product increases NAD+ levels in humans. [2] [1] [3]"
Does not really say anything?
References
-- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 21:32, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello! I work at Elysium Health. I am proposing that the text "; the two ingredients could be purchased separately for a total of $25." be removed.
According to the cited article, the total of the referenced products that can allegedly be used to get the same supplement dosages as Elysium's product, Basis, is $31 ($19 + $12), not $25. The reason the original editor wrote $25 is likely because the price on Amazon for the referenced nicotinamide riboside (NR) supplement went down since the TechCrunch article was published, so the editor is using the Amazon product page as a reference for the price. Even then, the referenced NR supplement provides 100mg of the supplement whereas Basis provides 250mg, which means you would have to buy $45 worth of the NR product to get _at least_ as much NR as Basis, bringing that total to $57 for a comparable supply. Alternatively, an editor could just change the text to read $57 and add the Amazon product pages as references, but I am not sure that Amazon product pages are considered a WP:SOURCE.
Thanks! ~ Rick305 t· c 20:37, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Deleted I removed all the information on prices, per WP:NOTCATALOG Regards, Spintendo ᔦᔭ 20:52, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Even better. Thanks! ~ Rick305 t· c 20:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
I've reworded it so it's just a statement of fact regarding their conducting a human clinical trial to study levels of NAD+, which can easily be sourced to the existing references. As for the FDA, I think it's important if we're going to chide them for avoiding the FDA, we include that it's not something the FDA would even review as aging is not a disease or condition. The only thing that can be done is already being done Chromadex, which is to test NR on a disease that has similar symptoms. I think it's fair to include that since it's the main ingredient of Basis and it's something the sources also cover. Morphh (talk) 14:09, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
if we're going to chide them for avoiding the FDA, we include that it's not something the FDA would even review as aging is not a disease or conditionand
If we want to include points on price, then we should follow up with the rebuttal pov regarding qualityand
I think it's fair to include...which have nothing to do with NPOV but are clear effort to try to "sell" and "balance" to benefit the company. Your edits do the same. Jytdog ( talk) 17:08, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Can we take this one step at a time for the benefit of uninvolved editors, please? As far as I can work out the dispute principally revolves around this text:
The FDA doesn't consider aging a disease, but the main ingredient in Basis, nicotinamide riboside, has been submitted for FDA approval by ChromoDex as a way to treat a rare, genetic disease in kids called Cockayne syndrome, which has symptoms similar to aging. Along with at least 12 other human trials, Elysium Health has conducted their own human clinical trial to study the efficacy of their product in increasing NAD+ levels.
sourced to:
Is that correct? I can see there may be further issues, but perhaps we can make progress on this one.
I have some concerns with the neutrality of that wording.
First, neither of those sources are high quality secondary medical sources, so are unsuitable for making any claim – or even an inference – about the efficacy of any drug in treating any condition.
Secondly, the FDA's opinion on ageing is immaterial; the majority of our readers live in countries where the FDA has no jurisdiction, and MEDRS is very clear about the quality of sourcing required when discussing the use of any intervention for treatment of any kind. It is not acceptable to lead readers to conclude that because a drug is being tested, that it may be effective – particularly when the assumption is made that any effect on an a condition with symptoms similar to ageing will then have the same effect on ageing. Thousand of trials take place that show no effect or are inconclusive. We require trials to have been completed and analysed by independent third-parties before we deem their conclusions worthy of inclusion in our articles. Jumping the gun in the way that this text does is unacceptable.
Thirdly, phrases such as "clinical trial to study the efficacy of their product" mislead the reader by making the assumption that there is an efficacy to study. If you were to write that trials have been made to investigate whether their product has any efficacy or not, that would be closer to what an unbiased observer could deduce from the sources. Even then, I'm doubtful about the WEIGHT being given to a few trials. This is an encyclopedia, not a news journal, and our articles wait for results and conclusions confirmed by secondary sources before reporting on them.
In summary, I wouldn't support the inclusion of any of that text, based on the current sources. When we have reviews and meta-analyses of completed trials, we might be in a better position to state something. -- RexxS ( talk) 19:21, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Along with other human trials into NR, Elysium Health has conducted their own trial on if their product increases NAD+ levels in humans.
there are no "sides" here. There is writing an encyclopedia and there is advocacy. These are different missions. Jytdog ( talk) 21:37, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Primary sources should generally not be used for medical content – as such sources often include unreliable or preliminary information..." and even says why. Consensus here supports this and it makes sense. This is not your regular run-of-the-mill topic. What is published in this article has implications for the general public:
Wikipedia's articles are not medical advice, but are widely used as a source for health information." Wikipedia cannot imply this has reverse-ageing effects based on the available sources --- Steve Quinn ( talk) 06:50, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello again. I work for Elysium Health. I am not being commissioned directly by them for these changes. I am simply interested in the article not having incorrect information.
There are a lot of statements in this article that are not really accurate based on the sources being references. Some of them are inaccurate because they are outdated and there is other information out there to show that it is out of date.
I have structured it as multiple request edits so each one can be tackled separately. Hopefully, this is a useful way of structuring the requests so that conversations about each point can be organized accordingly and not get lost if it turns into lengthy discussion. Feedback is appreciated! ~ Rick305 t· c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
I request that ", and is pursuing a similar "anti-aging" marketing path as did Sirtris Pharmaceuticals with resveratrol.
" be removed. The reference
[1] mentions Sirtris Pharmaceuticals only in that one of the founders of Elysium Health was previously involved with that organization. The company has never said, nor does the article say, that Sirtris's "marketing path" was being followed or that their history is of any influence to how Elysium Health markets its products or itself. ~
Rick305
t·
c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I request that "Like other companies in the supplement industry, Elysium marketed the product heavily on social media.
" be removed.
The referenced article [2] mentions the word "social" only once and in a completely different context than "social media." Also, you can say about a lot of companies that they heavily market on social media as it is now a normal channel of advertisement. That is not unique to Elysium Health and seems to be irrelevant. ~ Rick305 t· c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I request that "It buys the ingredients in Basis from a company called ChromaDex, that as of December 2016 sold the two ingredients to other supplement companies that also marketed products containing them.
" be removed or updated for relevance and
WP:RELTIME.
Elysium Health no longer purchases its ingredients from ChromaDex. You can see that in one of the TechCrunch articles referenced: "Elysium stopped ordering from the company thereafter.
".
[3] ~
Rick305
t·
c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I request that "By selling the product as a dietary supplement, Elysium is able to avoid the lengthy process of FDA drug approval, but is restricted from marketing it as treating any disease or condition.
" be removed.
It is already mentioned in the referenced " dietary supplement" article and I don't see how the fact that a dietary supplement company doesn't need to go through the separate FDA drug approval processes is relevant or unique to Elysium Health. It is true of any dietary supplement company that sells in the United States. Elysium Health does not currently sell any product that is intended to diagnose, treat, or prevent any disease, just like any other company whose only products are dietary supplements. ~ Rick305 t· c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I request that "Elysium recruited the head of manufacturing
" be updated. According to the article referenced, Elysium did not hire their head of manufacturing but hired their "VP of business development
." ~
Rick305
t·
c 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
References
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I work for Elysium Health.
The firm "Morningside Partners" referenced in a recent edit, but it is incorrectly referenced as "Morningside Ventures"
Thanks. ~ Rick305 t· c 00:54, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
References
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I work for Elysium Health.
I'm hoping to make the article read a little bit better with more logical grouping. Here is what I propose to replace the first paragraph. It also removes the second last paragraph as it merges that paragraph with the content here:
Elysium Health is a dietary supplement company founded in 2014 by biologist Leonard Guarente, Dan Alminana, and Eric Marcotulli. [1] It is one of several companies founded at around the same time by people with backgrounds in the tech industry and Silicon Valley who saw opportunities in the health and biomedical industries. [1] [2] [3] The company is widely described as being in the anti-aging field and similar to Sirtris Pharmaceuticals, which was developing resveratrol. [1] [4] [5]
In 2015, the company started selling a dietary supplement called Basis that packages two supplements, nicotinamide riboside (NR), a form of B vitamin found in yeast, and pterostilbene, a polyphenol found in blueberries, into one capsule. [4] The company says that these two ingredients help cells make nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) and that they stimulate sirtuins. [1]References
Wallace
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Thanks. ~ Rick305 t· c 00:54, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I work for Elysium Health.
According to a reference in the Elysium Health article, the company has seven, not six, Nobel Prize winners on its advisory board. [1]
Thanks! ~ Rick305 t· c 01:05, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
References
I would shorten the article to:
Elysium Health is a dietary supplement company founded in 2014 by biologist Leonard Guarente, Dan Alminana, and Eric Marcotulli.[1] As of December 2016, Elysium had raised $26.2 million from investors including General Catalyst and Robert Nelson from ARCH Venture Partners.[8] - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) 19:30, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Do we know anything about the efficacy of their "basis" product? Thanks! -- Lbeaumont ( talk) 13:53, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Info grossly incomplete! Full disclosure of ingredients as appear on label is needed here!!!!! 76.81.251.163 ( talk) 23:59, 28 November 2018 (UTC)A-user
Press releases are not sources. Depositions are not sources. See WP:NOTRELIABLE. Please stop adding information that is not coming from a third party. ThetaFree ( talk) 00:52, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
Obviously, deposition is a source for what Elysium Health's argument is in the infringement suit Jytdoggiedog ( talk)Jytdoggiedog