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The article should mention how Elvis was sexually abusing Priscilla from the time she was 14. He is listed as a pedophile at www.amiannoying.com and many other sites.
Yes, this is well known. Presley could not marry Priscilla until she was 21 because he didn't want to get caught like Jerry Lee Lewis. What a pedophile.
Also understand what pedophilia is before you make a comment about it, pedophilia is not sexual abuse, it can be a state of sexual preference, or you might be called a pedophile for having feelings for someone under 18, even if it is not a sexual desire in nature but a true love. Elvis obviously did have a preference for Priscilla at a young age, but is this obvious enough reason to make him a pedophile? What did Elvis really want? The person or the age of the person? A person may be called a pedophile because they have feelings for someone under 18 while they are them self over 18, but if the feelings of love are feelings of true love then no harm is done. It is the sexual predators like the ones you see at pervertedjustice which give pedophilia a bad name, and make it seem evil. It is my belief that there is nothing wrong with a person who is a pedophile who truly loves their partner, so long as they respect them and obey the laws which prohibit any type of sexual relationship untill they are of legal age, and in my own personal preference, married. 71.112.224.112
We read:
For anybody who's desperately interested in the "Elvis-was-gay!" angle, note how the third sentence makes Presley sound like a queen!
Um, back to the subject. Yes, this somewhat gushing description is unsourced. And at the end there's a seemingly pointless plug for a book. Or is mention of this book meant to imply that it's the source of the material on his military service? (I really don't know as I'm not a Presley fan.) -- Hoary 08:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Nick Adams fondly recalled his encounters with Presley. ... added at 19:23, 23 April 2006 by 195.93.21.65
I'm removing the following chunk from "Mama's boy":
Even by Wikipedia fancruft standards of prolixity, listing reactions to the "shocking truth" of what may have happened seems tertiary barrel-scraping. (Yes, yes, Greil Marcus is a reputed author. I infer that the reputation was made earlier.) -- Hoary 14:01, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
A Wikipedia article is indeed not a fansite. It's also not a bottomless pit into which one shovels as much "information" as possible, especially when that "information" is the reactions of people to stories of what "may have happened" (dressed up as the "shocking truth"). An encyclopedia article needs to be moderately concise, or so I'd thought.
I'm interested by the claim that an article on someone like Presley "should give a balanced view of the star, his life, his personal relationships and his music": I'd have put music first (though I realize that more dollars were made off the movies), and his "personal relationships" last (if anywhere), but I notice that 141 puts music last.
I can't speak of the motivation of "Elvis fans" as I know next to nothing about them and certainly am not one of them: I've never seen any of Presley's movies and don't much want to, and while I enjoy some of his earliest music I'm bored or repelled by the rest. (Actually my favorite Presley song is the Bonzos' "Canyons of Your Mind".) I have no positive view of Presley and no negative one: I have fairly clear views about his music and a general idea (quite possibly mistaken) about his movies, and I derive considerable and presumably unintended amusement from photos of him in some of his stage outfits.
Calling Onefortyone "dread 141" is a direct expression of my PoV: I dread the way 141 shovels quantities of sensationalist tittle-tattle into the articles on celebs of the past, as clearing up the result takes so much time. I appreciate the way 141 is now clarifying sources, so the dread is abating very slightly; for it to abate more, all 141 has to do is share my notion that such matters as what Presley did or didn't do (and did and didn't want to do) with his dick are of negligible importance; their full, lip-smacking descriptions better left for Playboy (on occasion a good magazine, of course), National Enquirer, etc. -- Hoary 00:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the section alleging that Presley had an incestous relationship with his mother. User Onefortyone sources are utterly uncredible and include an unpublished manuscript by Presley's step-mother who bare knew Presley. Furhter, Goldman is considerd, at best, a hack and while it's important to note his book it is not appropriate to give it such credence as User Onefortyone would have us give it. Again, the man's life has been utterly serialized and this article should not include every crackport theory as "fact". Lochdale
I recently picked up Greil Marcus' book, Double Trouble: Bill Clinton and Elvis Presley in a Land of No Alternatives (2001), and it simply does not support what User OnefortyOne has added to the text regarding Presley's relationship with his mother. Marcus dismisses any notion that Presley had incestual relations with his mother and makes it quite clear in Dead Elvis: A Chronicle of a Cultural Obsession (1991), that Goldman's research is third-rate and fundamentally unreliable. As such, I have removed the section added by User Onefortyone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.51.62 ( talk • contribs)
My fellow-editor Onefortyone is keen to inform the world of various accounts (by "reputed" writers!) of Presley's "relationships". I thought the guy was a singer. Didn't he do "Heartbreak Hotel", "Hound Dog", and "Blue Suede Shoes"? Maybe I mistyped one or more of "heartbreak", "hound" and "suede", or maybe the find function in my browser isn't working, but I don't see any of these mentioned in the article. Am I wrong -- is Presley primarily significant for such matters as his "relationships"? -- Hoary 03:54, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Presley is famous for stealing black music. ... added at 15:42, 24 April 2006 by 195.93.21.65
Thank you Mr/Ms IP number. "Stole"? I dunno about that. But certainly his version of "Hound Dog" isn't up to that by Big Mama Thornton.
Hmm, hours have passed, but nobody beside Jkelly has agreed with me yet. Jkelly, perhaps you and me are in a minority. OK, let's put aside such, uh, trivia as "Hound Dog" and concentrate on what seems to fascinate Onefortyone, the Really Big Question: Was Elvis a Good Lay? I read the section of the article that's about Patricia Presley and her rivals with mounting excitement (Not!), and at the end concluded that the tell-all books disagree over the monumentally important (to some of us, though not me) questions of: (i) Did Elvis fuck Patricia before they got married? and (ii) Did he fuck all those other girls too? So as long as the tittle-tattlers disagree (and until Mouton De Gruyter or similar brings out a definitive, peer-reviewed, scholarly monograph on the subject), I suggest that all of this he-said she-said merits a footnote at best. And indeed I chucked most of this crap (aka "information") into footnotes.
And now a sanity check, please. Didn't Presley record something called "Heartbreak Hotel", and if so, isn't it worth a mention in this article? -- Hoary 15:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
It's with a touch of regret that I've rewritten what was previously:
(Emphasis added.) I'm used to the mealy-mouthed use of the linguistic term "gender" to stand for sex. OK. But for humans (as opposed to, say, bees), how many "genders" are there? For the record, yes, I would agree that being "all at once a bass, a baritone and a tenor" would be "a most unique attribute" amongst singers of the female "gender". -- Hoary 09:08, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Presley died. That meant that he couldn't make any more records (or continue to be "an American phenomenon"). Why or how he died seems of little importance to me, but clearly it's of huge importance to the simple souls who consume tabloids, etc.
An autopsy did its best to determine how he died. The results won't be available for more than a decade.
In the meantime, journalists and others are welcome to speculate, and to recycle stories. Is this encyclopedic? I think it isn't, which is why I chucked it into a footnote. (It was that, or a move into "Trivia", or deletion.) Without any edit summary, let alone any explanation here, some person has pulled it all back.
What should be done? -- Hoary 04:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
He committed suicide because his career was over, he was mentally ill, feared he had bone cancer, and was going blind from glaucoma. ... added at 19:27, 26 April 2006 by 195.93.21.65
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
This is an Archive. Do not edit it. Use the main article talk page. Thank you.
The article should mention how Elvis was sexually abusing Priscilla from the time she was 14. He is listed as a pedophile at www.amiannoying.com and many other sites.
Yes, this is well known. Presley could not marry Priscilla until she was 21 because he didn't want to get caught like Jerry Lee Lewis. What a pedophile.
Also understand what pedophilia is before you make a comment about it, pedophilia is not sexual abuse, it can be a state of sexual preference, or you might be called a pedophile for having feelings for someone under 18, even if it is not a sexual desire in nature but a true love. Elvis obviously did have a preference for Priscilla at a young age, but is this obvious enough reason to make him a pedophile? What did Elvis really want? The person or the age of the person? A person may be called a pedophile because they have feelings for someone under 18 while they are them self over 18, but if the feelings of love are feelings of true love then no harm is done. It is the sexual predators like the ones you see at pervertedjustice which give pedophilia a bad name, and make it seem evil. It is my belief that there is nothing wrong with a person who is a pedophile who truly loves their partner, so long as they respect them and obey the laws which prohibit any type of sexual relationship untill they are of legal age, and in my own personal preference, married. 71.112.224.112
We read:
For anybody who's desperately interested in the "Elvis-was-gay!" angle, note how the third sentence makes Presley sound like a queen!
Um, back to the subject. Yes, this somewhat gushing description is unsourced. And at the end there's a seemingly pointless plug for a book. Or is mention of this book meant to imply that it's the source of the material on his military service? (I really don't know as I'm not a Presley fan.) -- Hoary 08:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Nick Adams fondly recalled his encounters with Presley. ... added at 19:23, 23 April 2006 by 195.93.21.65
I'm removing the following chunk from "Mama's boy":
Even by Wikipedia fancruft standards of prolixity, listing reactions to the "shocking truth" of what may have happened seems tertiary barrel-scraping. (Yes, yes, Greil Marcus is a reputed author. I infer that the reputation was made earlier.) -- Hoary 14:01, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
A Wikipedia article is indeed not a fansite. It's also not a bottomless pit into which one shovels as much "information" as possible, especially when that "information" is the reactions of people to stories of what "may have happened" (dressed up as the "shocking truth"). An encyclopedia article needs to be moderately concise, or so I'd thought.
I'm interested by the claim that an article on someone like Presley "should give a balanced view of the star, his life, his personal relationships and his music": I'd have put music first (though I realize that more dollars were made off the movies), and his "personal relationships" last (if anywhere), but I notice that 141 puts music last.
I can't speak of the motivation of "Elvis fans" as I know next to nothing about them and certainly am not one of them: I've never seen any of Presley's movies and don't much want to, and while I enjoy some of his earliest music I'm bored or repelled by the rest. (Actually my favorite Presley song is the Bonzos' "Canyons of Your Mind".) I have no positive view of Presley and no negative one: I have fairly clear views about his music and a general idea (quite possibly mistaken) about his movies, and I derive considerable and presumably unintended amusement from photos of him in some of his stage outfits.
Calling Onefortyone "dread 141" is a direct expression of my PoV: I dread the way 141 shovels quantities of sensationalist tittle-tattle into the articles on celebs of the past, as clearing up the result takes so much time. I appreciate the way 141 is now clarifying sources, so the dread is abating very slightly; for it to abate more, all 141 has to do is share my notion that such matters as what Presley did or didn't do (and did and didn't want to do) with his dick are of negligible importance; their full, lip-smacking descriptions better left for Playboy (on occasion a good magazine, of course), National Enquirer, etc. -- Hoary 00:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the section alleging that Presley had an incestous relationship with his mother. User Onefortyone sources are utterly uncredible and include an unpublished manuscript by Presley's step-mother who bare knew Presley. Furhter, Goldman is considerd, at best, a hack and while it's important to note his book it is not appropriate to give it such credence as User Onefortyone would have us give it. Again, the man's life has been utterly serialized and this article should not include every crackport theory as "fact". Lochdale
I recently picked up Greil Marcus' book, Double Trouble: Bill Clinton and Elvis Presley in a Land of No Alternatives (2001), and it simply does not support what User OnefortyOne has added to the text regarding Presley's relationship with his mother. Marcus dismisses any notion that Presley had incestual relations with his mother and makes it quite clear in Dead Elvis: A Chronicle of a Cultural Obsession (1991), that Goldman's research is third-rate and fundamentally unreliable. As such, I have removed the section added by User Onefortyone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.51.62 ( talk • contribs)
My fellow-editor Onefortyone is keen to inform the world of various accounts (by "reputed" writers!) of Presley's "relationships". I thought the guy was a singer. Didn't he do "Heartbreak Hotel", "Hound Dog", and "Blue Suede Shoes"? Maybe I mistyped one or more of "heartbreak", "hound" and "suede", or maybe the find function in my browser isn't working, but I don't see any of these mentioned in the article. Am I wrong -- is Presley primarily significant for such matters as his "relationships"? -- Hoary 03:54, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Presley is famous for stealing black music. ... added at 15:42, 24 April 2006 by 195.93.21.65
Thank you Mr/Ms IP number. "Stole"? I dunno about that. But certainly his version of "Hound Dog" isn't up to that by Big Mama Thornton.
Hmm, hours have passed, but nobody beside Jkelly has agreed with me yet. Jkelly, perhaps you and me are in a minority. OK, let's put aside such, uh, trivia as "Hound Dog" and concentrate on what seems to fascinate Onefortyone, the Really Big Question: Was Elvis a Good Lay? I read the section of the article that's about Patricia Presley and her rivals with mounting excitement (Not!), and at the end concluded that the tell-all books disagree over the monumentally important (to some of us, though not me) questions of: (i) Did Elvis fuck Patricia before they got married? and (ii) Did he fuck all those other girls too? So as long as the tittle-tattlers disagree (and until Mouton De Gruyter or similar brings out a definitive, peer-reviewed, scholarly monograph on the subject), I suggest that all of this he-said she-said merits a footnote at best. And indeed I chucked most of this crap (aka "information") into footnotes.
And now a sanity check, please. Didn't Presley record something called "Heartbreak Hotel", and if so, isn't it worth a mention in this article? -- Hoary 15:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
It's with a touch of regret that I've rewritten what was previously:
(Emphasis added.) I'm used to the mealy-mouthed use of the linguistic term "gender" to stand for sex. OK. But for humans (as opposed to, say, bees), how many "genders" are there? For the record, yes, I would agree that being "all at once a bass, a baritone and a tenor" would be "a most unique attribute" amongst singers of the female "gender". -- Hoary 09:08, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Presley died. That meant that he couldn't make any more records (or continue to be "an American phenomenon"). Why or how he died seems of little importance to me, but clearly it's of huge importance to the simple souls who consume tabloids, etc.
An autopsy did its best to determine how he died. The results won't be available for more than a decade.
In the meantime, journalists and others are welcome to speculate, and to recycle stories. Is this encyclopedic? I think it isn't, which is why I chucked it into a footnote. (It was that, or a move into "Trivia", or deletion.) Without any edit summary, let alone any explanation here, some person has pulled it all back.
What should be done? -- Hoary 04:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
He committed suicide because his career was over, he was mentally ill, feared he had bone cancer, and was going blind from glaucoma. ... added at 19:27, 26 April 2006 by 195.93.21.65