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please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: August 8, 2023. ( Reviewed version). |
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![]() | A fact from Eliza Stephens appeared on Wikipedia's
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Did you know column on 9 July 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
While researching this article, User:SusunW and myself found a few additional leads and resources that may be on the wrong side of WP:OR to include, but I would like to list them here for future reference. — Kusma ( talk) 08:45, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
Baptismal records:
— Kusma ( talk) 08:45, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
From the Hampshire Records office (search for "Henry Stephens" in the catalogue we have the following information about a Henry Stephens that fits with ours, but there is no proof that they are the same. Records are DC/B3/5/35 and DC/B3/6/2.
We believe that Henry Stephens was from Winchester, and there is an entire Stephens family that looks likely to be ours. — Kusma ( talk) 14:42, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
97198 (
talk)
11:12, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
Moved to mainspace by Kusma ( talk) and SusunW ( talk). Nominated by Kusma ( talk) at 09:14, 7 May 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Eliza Stephens; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: UndercoverClassicist ( talk · contribs) 11:23, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
I can have a look at this one. The research really shines off the page: no small feat given the huge and multilingual list of sources. Always good to see biographies outside the usual cohort of posh white men with military medals! UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 11:23, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Resolved matters
|
---|
|
It is possible she had an affair with Stoney and carried his child when: are both of these things only "possibles"? This seems to come from Moore: does she give any sense of why this might have been the case (was it a rumour going around at the time?) This echoes in the body text.
his friend, Captain Perkins Magra, the brother of James Matra, who had taken part in the first voyage of James Cook.: grammatically, this says that Perkins had sailed with Cook, though I think we mean that James had. Suggest "whose brother, James Matra, had taken part...".
Marianne Marg[are]tmean?
hush moneyas possibly a little obscure (I'm thinking here especially of non-native speakers). UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 21:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
using a "black inky kind of medicine": sounds nasty. Who is being quoted here?
Captain Perkins Magra: per MOS:HONORIFIC, we don't normally use people's titles, ranks etc in apposition with their names: suggest "Perkins Magra, a captain in the Royal Navy" (which is more informative anyway). He went on to have a diplomatic career but I suspect hadn't embarked on that yet?
£2000: we're inconsistent about whether to use a comma here. Personally, I would, especially if we've got larger amounts in the article. Can we give any sense of how much money this was: is it "generous" like a big Christmas bonus, or inordinately extravagant (my sense is towards the latter)?
{{
Inflation}}
gives £2,000 (equivalent to £340,231 in 2023); other points of comparison are Frederica's annual salary of £100 (described by Elizabeth as "mediocre") or the £6,000 John Hawkesworth received in 1773 for
An Account of the Voyages in "one of the most lucrative literary contracts of the eighteenth century."or her first husband's family: whose first husband? I'd suggest replacing with the name.
Stoney's life story was later adapted by William Makepeace Thackeray as that of the anti-hero in The Luck of Barry Lyndon. He was later described as a "schemer" who had come to London with the purpose to seduce and marry the wealthy Bowes: grammatically ambiguous even though there's no real chance of confusion: He really ought to be Barry Lyndon or Thackery, but we mean Stoney. UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 21:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Described by Bowes's biographer Wendy Moore as "wily, flighty, and promiscuous", she quickly became an important and trusted companion to her mistress: two quibbles here. Firstly, this seems a bit of a non sequitur: being flighty, wily and promiscuous would seem a reason not to take someone as your trusted companion. Secondly, that description smells rather strongly of sexism: I certainly can't imagine those last two adjectives being applied to a man in the same way. Are we absolutely certain that this description is both justified and helpful?
the Irish lieutenant: I'd suggest clarifying exactly what we mean by lieutenant: in particular, army or navy (the former, but do we know, for instance, his regiment?) His article has a bit of a side-plot where he pretended to be a captain, which might be worth noting if that pretence was significant to his relationship with Bowes.
When Bowes and Gray became formally engaged in St Paul's Cathedral in August or September 1776,: presumably she divorced the former Lyon beforehand?
Andrew Robinson Stoney arrived in London, scheming to seduce and marry the wealthy Bowes: introduce Stoney briefly. Scheming is a little non-NPOV and reads a little like a Jane Austen novel.
It is likely that the response to Bowes' query (Bowes was pretending to be a grocer's widow) whether she should marry "a brewer or a sugar-boiler" indicated the advantages of Stoney over Gray.: I'm doubly in suspense here: what was the response, and how did brewers and sugar-boilers relate to these two men?
...when asking whether to marry a brewer or a sugar-boiler (an oblique means of asking for advice on her romantic situation), the fortune-teller answered with a double-entendre intended to indicate the advantages of Stoney. Perhaps "double-entendre" will give the wrong idea, though... UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 21:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
He was a widower and had some debts: had some debts reads as slightly casting aspersions: don't (and didn't) most people have some debts? It sounds as though we're meant to take away that he's a bit of a wrong 'un, but I worry that that implication is really only coming from the editorialising at this point.
It is unclear whether Henry Stephens was aware of his wife's pregnancy; Eliza herself later denied claims that advertisements had been placed to find a husband for her: the semicolon implies that these two sentences fit together, but it isn't immediately clear how (presumably, if he had been aware, he would have placed the advertisements?)
In her Confessions: we tease at quite an interesting origin for this document, but it's still a bit mysterious at this stage. Quite a long quotation from a primary source: generally, the MOS advises against those unless there's a really compelling reason. Can it be cut to just the juiciest phrasing and the remainder paraphrased?
ostensibly on his death bed after a staged duel: there's clearly some level of fakery going on here, but I'm not clear whether he was actually injured (but didn't die, despite predictions) or even whether the duel was real. If he faked one or the other... why?
Stoney-Bowes: this is the former Stoney: is it worth clarifying when we mention his marriage, as we did for Lyon, that he (unusually) changed his name?
A witness later claimed seeing Stoney leave Eliza's bedroom at 5 a.m. one morning after the election: claimed to have seen is grammatical here. Suggest also five o'clock one morning to avoid the tautology of a.m. one morning.
when they left the employment: not quite grammatical: left the family's employment?
It is not quite known what happened to cause Bowes to write in such terms about her previous intimate friends: better as
It is not quite known what caused Bowes to write in such terms about her previously intimate friends.
In 1785, Bowes escaped from her abusive husband Stoney: another buried lede, I fear: back up a bit and explain how (and when) Stoney had been/become abusive.
Afterwards, Eliza attempted to reconcile with Bowes and informed her about her daughter Mary's location and helping to remove her from Stoney's power: should be helped.
prepared to graduate in the middle of February 1824implies that she didn't graduate: what happened here?
Imberg was granted the Order of St. Stanislav in the 2nd degree: wikilink? Certainly good to explain what this was: was it a big deal?
I still need to do plagiarism, CLOP and TSI checks, which will follow after the main text of the article is more-or-less resolved. UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 19:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
As promised. Could I please have the quotation from the original source which supports:
After the death of George Bowes in 1760, Mary Eleanor became heiress of a vast fortune.(Moore 2009: 29–30)
It is not quite known what caused Bowes to write in such terms about her previously intimate friends(Parker 2006: 65)
Speransky was a graduate of the Alexander Nevsky Seminary [ru] and had that year entered the civil service(Raeff 1957: 9, 15).
For what it's worth, Earwig is happy and I have no concerns about plagiarism.
All good here. UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 19:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
(a) the prose is clear, concise, and
understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct:
(b) it complies with the
Manual of Style guidelines for
lead sections,
layout,
words to watch,
fiction, and
list incorporation:
(a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline:
(b)
reliable sources are
cited inline. All content that could
reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
(c) it contains
no original research:
(d) it contains no
copyright violations or
plagiarism:
(a) it addresses the
main aspects of the topic:
(b) it stays
focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see
summary style):
(a) media are
tagged with their
copyright statuses, and
valid non-free use rationales are provided for
non-free content:
(b) media are
relevant to the topic, and have
suitable captions:
Pass: this really stands out for the depth and quality of research by its two main authors, whose level of scholarship is an example to all of us on this site. In commending them for their work and congratulating them on the GA, I must also thank them for a stimulating and enjoyable review process, and for their timely, thoughtful and often extremely erudite responses to comments. Do please let me know if you decide to take it to FAC. UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 11:02, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | Eliza Stephens has been listed as one of the
History good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: August 8, 2023. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from Eliza Stephens appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 9 July 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
While researching this article, User:SusunW and myself found a few additional leads and resources that may be on the wrong side of WP:OR to include, but I would like to list them here for future reference. — Kusma ( talk) 08:45, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
Baptismal records:
— Kusma ( talk) 08:45, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
From the Hampshire Records office (search for "Henry Stephens" in the catalogue we have the following information about a Henry Stephens that fits with ours, but there is no proof that they are the same. Records are DC/B3/5/35 and DC/B3/6/2.
We believe that Henry Stephens was from Winchester, and there is an entire Stephens family that looks likely to be ours. — Kusma ( talk) 14:42, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
97198 (
talk)
11:12, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
Moved to mainspace by Kusma ( talk) and SusunW ( talk). Nominated by Kusma ( talk) at 09:14, 7 May 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Eliza Stephens; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: UndercoverClassicist ( talk · contribs) 11:23, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
I can have a look at this one. The research really shines off the page: no small feat given the huge and multilingual list of sources. Always good to see biographies outside the usual cohort of posh white men with military medals! UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 11:23, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Resolved matters
|
---|
|
It is possible she had an affair with Stoney and carried his child when: are both of these things only "possibles"? This seems to come from Moore: does she give any sense of why this might have been the case (was it a rumour going around at the time?) This echoes in the body text.
his friend, Captain Perkins Magra, the brother of James Matra, who had taken part in the first voyage of James Cook.: grammatically, this says that Perkins had sailed with Cook, though I think we mean that James had. Suggest "whose brother, James Matra, had taken part...".
Marianne Marg[are]tmean?
hush moneyas possibly a little obscure (I'm thinking here especially of non-native speakers). UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 21:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
using a "black inky kind of medicine": sounds nasty. Who is being quoted here?
Captain Perkins Magra: per MOS:HONORIFIC, we don't normally use people's titles, ranks etc in apposition with their names: suggest "Perkins Magra, a captain in the Royal Navy" (which is more informative anyway). He went on to have a diplomatic career but I suspect hadn't embarked on that yet?
£2000: we're inconsistent about whether to use a comma here. Personally, I would, especially if we've got larger amounts in the article. Can we give any sense of how much money this was: is it "generous" like a big Christmas bonus, or inordinately extravagant (my sense is towards the latter)?
{{
Inflation}}
gives £2,000 (equivalent to £340,231 in 2023); other points of comparison are Frederica's annual salary of £100 (described by Elizabeth as "mediocre") or the £6,000 John Hawkesworth received in 1773 for
An Account of the Voyages in "one of the most lucrative literary contracts of the eighteenth century."or her first husband's family: whose first husband? I'd suggest replacing with the name.
Stoney's life story was later adapted by William Makepeace Thackeray as that of the anti-hero in The Luck of Barry Lyndon. He was later described as a "schemer" who had come to London with the purpose to seduce and marry the wealthy Bowes: grammatically ambiguous even though there's no real chance of confusion: He really ought to be Barry Lyndon or Thackery, but we mean Stoney. UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 21:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Described by Bowes's biographer Wendy Moore as "wily, flighty, and promiscuous", she quickly became an important and trusted companion to her mistress: two quibbles here. Firstly, this seems a bit of a non sequitur: being flighty, wily and promiscuous would seem a reason not to take someone as your trusted companion. Secondly, that description smells rather strongly of sexism: I certainly can't imagine those last two adjectives being applied to a man in the same way. Are we absolutely certain that this description is both justified and helpful?
the Irish lieutenant: I'd suggest clarifying exactly what we mean by lieutenant: in particular, army or navy (the former, but do we know, for instance, his regiment?) His article has a bit of a side-plot where he pretended to be a captain, which might be worth noting if that pretence was significant to his relationship with Bowes.
When Bowes and Gray became formally engaged in St Paul's Cathedral in August or September 1776,: presumably she divorced the former Lyon beforehand?
Andrew Robinson Stoney arrived in London, scheming to seduce and marry the wealthy Bowes: introduce Stoney briefly. Scheming is a little non-NPOV and reads a little like a Jane Austen novel.
It is likely that the response to Bowes' query (Bowes was pretending to be a grocer's widow) whether she should marry "a brewer or a sugar-boiler" indicated the advantages of Stoney over Gray.: I'm doubly in suspense here: what was the response, and how did brewers and sugar-boilers relate to these two men?
...when asking whether to marry a brewer or a sugar-boiler (an oblique means of asking for advice on her romantic situation), the fortune-teller answered with a double-entendre intended to indicate the advantages of Stoney. Perhaps "double-entendre" will give the wrong idea, though... UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 21:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
He was a widower and had some debts: had some debts reads as slightly casting aspersions: don't (and didn't) most people have some debts? It sounds as though we're meant to take away that he's a bit of a wrong 'un, but I worry that that implication is really only coming from the editorialising at this point.
It is unclear whether Henry Stephens was aware of his wife's pregnancy; Eliza herself later denied claims that advertisements had been placed to find a husband for her: the semicolon implies that these two sentences fit together, but it isn't immediately clear how (presumably, if he had been aware, he would have placed the advertisements?)
In her Confessions: we tease at quite an interesting origin for this document, but it's still a bit mysterious at this stage. Quite a long quotation from a primary source: generally, the MOS advises against those unless there's a really compelling reason. Can it be cut to just the juiciest phrasing and the remainder paraphrased?
ostensibly on his death bed after a staged duel: there's clearly some level of fakery going on here, but I'm not clear whether he was actually injured (but didn't die, despite predictions) or even whether the duel was real. If he faked one or the other... why?
Stoney-Bowes: this is the former Stoney: is it worth clarifying when we mention his marriage, as we did for Lyon, that he (unusually) changed his name?
A witness later claimed seeing Stoney leave Eliza's bedroom at 5 a.m. one morning after the election: claimed to have seen is grammatical here. Suggest also five o'clock one morning to avoid the tautology of a.m. one morning.
when they left the employment: not quite grammatical: left the family's employment?
It is not quite known what happened to cause Bowes to write in such terms about her previous intimate friends: better as
It is not quite known what caused Bowes to write in such terms about her previously intimate friends.
In 1785, Bowes escaped from her abusive husband Stoney: another buried lede, I fear: back up a bit and explain how (and when) Stoney had been/become abusive.
Afterwards, Eliza attempted to reconcile with Bowes and informed her about her daughter Mary's location and helping to remove her from Stoney's power: should be helped.
prepared to graduate in the middle of February 1824implies that she didn't graduate: what happened here?
Imberg was granted the Order of St. Stanislav in the 2nd degree: wikilink? Certainly good to explain what this was: was it a big deal?
I still need to do plagiarism, CLOP and TSI checks, which will follow after the main text of the article is more-or-less resolved. UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 19:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
As promised. Could I please have the quotation from the original source which supports:
After the death of George Bowes in 1760, Mary Eleanor became heiress of a vast fortune.(Moore 2009: 29–30)
It is not quite known what caused Bowes to write in such terms about her previously intimate friends(Parker 2006: 65)
Speransky was a graduate of the Alexander Nevsky Seminary [ru] and had that year entered the civil service(Raeff 1957: 9, 15).
For what it's worth, Earwig is happy and I have no concerns about plagiarism.
All good here. UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 19:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
(a) the prose is clear, concise, and
understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct:
(b) it complies with the
Manual of Style guidelines for
lead sections,
layout,
words to watch,
fiction, and
list incorporation:
(a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline:
(b)
reliable sources are
cited inline. All content that could
reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
(c) it contains
no original research:
(d) it contains no
copyright violations or
plagiarism:
(a) it addresses the
main aspects of the topic:
(b) it stays
focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see
summary style):
(a) media are
tagged with their
copyright statuses, and
valid non-free use rationales are provided for
non-free content:
(b) media are
relevant to the topic, and have
suitable captions:
Pass: this really stands out for the depth and quality of research by its two main authors, whose level of scholarship is an example to all of us on this site. In commending them for their work and congratulating them on the GA, I must also thank them for a stimulating and enjoyable review process, and for their timely, thoughtful and often extremely erudite responses to comments. Do please let me know if you decide to take it to FAC. UndercoverClassicist ( talk) 11:02, 8 August 2023 (UTC)