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Reviewer: asilvering ( talk · contribs) 02:11, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Reviewer 2: LEvalyn ( talk · contribs) 07:36, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
First half of review
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Result
DiscussionHello ! I am glad to see that my work onn the French version has been used here to update the article. I have received a question on commons and am searching for the place where I photographed Elizabeth's letter. It was also tweeted by Michele Audin who is a French expert on the Paris Commune here https://twitter.com/Commune2021/status/1385887633684025345/photo/2 and is in the public domain as Elizabeth is dead since more than 70 years. The reason for the 3 photos of the "Tenple Unique" in Geneva, is to show that the building is still standing in the 2020s although close to nobody remembers it was a massonic temple, and no one in Geneva remembers the AIT and Dmitriefff hold their meetings here. It was renamed "Eglise du sacré coeur" even before the French Thiers government decided to build the Sacré Coeur in Montmartre, so I think it has an informative and historical value. I am looking at your comments as I will of course update the French article if I see any mistakes and inaccuracies. Centre I am still looking for historical clues in Geneva : Dmitrieff lived at Nicolas Outine's place but I have not found wheer in Geneva yet, and am planning a trip to Lausanne to the CIRA (Centre International de Recherche sur l'Anarchisme) https://www.cira.ch/. You might want also to work on Union des femmes. The only thing I could not do for this article is to get hold of the russian litterature on the subject : apparently there has been quite a lot published (from Ivan Knijnik-Vetrov, Nata Efremova, and Lev Kokin) , but unfortunately my russian is not good enoough. So if someone is able to grab hold of the russian litterture it would be really an improvement. Also, the role of the Jacks of Hearts is nebulous, I did not find much on them and a lot seems to be heavily stereotyped and not very factual. I am so glad that it was translated ! I got a little tired of the subject after working months on it to translate it in English so I am so thankful to see it has been done ! PLease feel free to ask your questions :) Nattes à chat ( talk) 20:16, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
PS I am now working on Madame de Warens and the French version is much better than the English one :)
"Un des enjeux pour Carolyn Eichner est de réévaluer le rôle politique de ces militantes qu’elle considère comme marginalisées, non seulement dans l’historiographie de la Commune, mais aussi dans l’historiographie du féminisme" => translation «One of the challenges for Carolyn Eichner is to reassess the political role of these activists, whom she considers to be marginalized, not only in the historiography of the Commune, but also in the historiography of feminism» This article quotes Carolyn Eichner's words in https://www.lhistoire.fr/la-commune-pas-de-r%C3%A9volution-sans-les-femmes
Dmitrieff by police reports, newspaper at the time of the commune and her counterparts. I own the book in electronic form and it is written in French. It probably is more complete than any other source (even Eichner) and it goes into detail about what people wrote and said about her (Benoit Malon, Lissaragy, the possible reason of André Léo's silence about Elisabeth and the fact she did not join the Union des femmes, the rivality with the other women, the idealisation by the russian biographers of the communist era). One thing is sure : until recently all sources say Louise Michelle was at the center of the focus as a woman in the Commune de Paris, and historians are now trying to pull out the other profiles into the light. Dmitrieff might have been ignored in France as Frankel because they were not French. I dont know how to share the book given the electronic format, but I could probably send the chapter in a print screen version provided the person understands French and I have an email adress. Nattes à chat ( talk) 00:44, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm sorry that I haven't addressed the concerns in a timely manner. I've gotten pretty busy lately, but I did fix some issues:
You can see here that the Internationale was very linked to these strikes https://books.google.ch/books?id=zMnaIg3x6ZIC&pg=PA11&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false, and Elisabeth was a an active member of the Internationale. Geneva is where she learned to be an activist, knowledge that she later made use of in Paris when she organized the women in L'Union des femmes. I have in French detailed the role of the russian section in Geneva here https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_internationale_des_travailleursBasically (even found a flag that was done by the women's section of the international.). So even if we know that Elisabeth in 1868 from Braibant's book was then in 1868 learning and discrete, we know she opposed Bakounine frontly at one point and came to Geneva just when the strikes were going on. We also know she was sent to London to represent the situation of the International in 1870 to Marx. We cannot draw conclusions but I think these elements and historical facts have to be mentionned to understand how she became what she was in the Commune. She inherited from her husband when he died later after the Commune (there was a big age difference). It was a marriage she arranged so that she could travel freely, all the sources agree on that. Nattes à chat ( talk) 16:59, 18 January 2022 (UTC) |
Hello all, I see a lot of excellent work is taking place to improve this article. I thought I may as well start my review now, so any concerns I find can be addressed while the article is still being polished. I will update the list below as I work. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
---|---|---|
1. Well-written: | ||
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. | ||
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. | the guidelines are all followed | |
2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. | ||
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). | a lot of cites here but the sources are all reliable and suitable | |
2c. it contains no original research. | very thoroughly grounded in sources | |
2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. | earwig looks good-- all the (low) hits are for names of organizations or direct quotes. | |
3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. | ||
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). | ||
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. | admirably neutral for a figure whose political work could clearly inspire strong partisanship | |
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. | ||
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. | problematic images have been removed | |
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | ||
7. Overall assessment. | looking good! |
As you go through these, maybe reply with a quick checkmark to each bullet.
~ L 🌸 (
talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC) -- Actually, just reply, and I'll add a checkmark when I've confirmed that the issue is addressed.
~ L 🌸 (
talk)
22:51, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Kushelev eventually married Troskevich in 1856, his first wife having died of cholera, after she intervened to save him when his serfs revolted.-- the events appear to be related in reverse-chronological order. Is the detail about serf revolt relevant in this sentence? ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
In spring 1868, Dmitrieff passed by Geneva-- I'm not sure what "passed by" means..? And now I am noticing how confusing it is that she decided to go to Geneva, but then actually goes to Switzerland and London. (Also confusing that there is a structural break in the middle of her 1868 travels.) ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
had all the confidence of the latter-- is "the latter" Utin? maybe "shared his confidence" would be clearer. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
They procured aid to the wounded.seems out of place when the article has not indicated who would be wounded or how/why. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
The goal of the Union of Women was the formation of a trade union chamber of female workers-- can it be integrated into a paragraph? ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Dmitrieff shared with Louise Michel the wish not to differentiate women from men.~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
In the days that followed, revolutionary institutions were put in place.-- maybe draw on a source from Paris Commune to state the obvious like "soldiers of the National Guard seized control of the city" and "for two months, the communards worked to establish an independent revolutionary government." And second, per the note I make below, spell out as suggested that it is the French National Army retaking the city on behalf of the Third Republic. I think those two sentences, in conjunction with the other details already present, would be enough to signal the full context. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:53, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
they retook control of Pariswho took it from whom (I can basically guess, but since there is no transition from the previous section to here, more context is useful) ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
group of feminist Trotskyists participating in the Women's Liberation Movement and the Revolutionary Marxist Alliance, obviously. Kidding. Looking at this again, I think it's disconnected trivia in this state, but would be an interesting mention if further expanded. I'm not inclined to do that myself right now, so I'll move it and the sources to the talk page for now. -- asilvering ( talk) 22:59, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
The Union of Women assembled more than 1,000 members.It's not clear if the cite for the next sentence covers this figure too. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Some of the images like File:Commune de Paris barricade Place Blanche.jpg must be in the public domain for one reason or another, but I'm not sure if {{ PD-1923}} or {{ PD-1996}} applies. That should not be an obstacle for passing the article as GA. ( t · c) buidhe 21:02, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
history) ·
Article talk (
|
history) ·
Watch
Reviewer: asilvering ( talk · contribs) 02:11, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Reviewer 2: LEvalyn ( talk · contribs) 07:36, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
First half of review
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Result
DiscussionHello ! I am glad to see that my work onn the French version has been used here to update the article. I have received a question on commons and am searching for the place where I photographed Elizabeth's letter. It was also tweeted by Michele Audin who is a French expert on the Paris Commune here https://twitter.com/Commune2021/status/1385887633684025345/photo/2 and is in the public domain as Elizabeth is dead since more than 70 years. The reason for the 3 photos of the "Tenple Unique" in Geneva, is to show that the building is still standing in the 2020s although close to nobody remembers it was a massonic temple, and no one in Geneva remembers the AIT and Dmitriefff hold their meetings here. It was renamed "Eglise du sacré coeur" even before the French Thiers government decided to build the Sacré Coeur in Montmartre, so I think it has an informative and historical value. I am looking at your comments as I will of course update the French article if I see any mistakes and inaccuracies. Centre I am still looking for historical clues in Geneva : Dmitrieff lived at Nicolas Outine's place but I have not found wheer in Geneva yet, and am planning a trip to Lausanne to the CIRA (Centre International de Recherche sur l'Anarchisme) https://www.cira.ch/. You might want also to work on Union des femmes. The only thing I could not do for this article is to get hold of the russian litterature on the subject : apparently there has been quite a lot published (from Ivan Knijnik-Vetrov, Nata Efremova, and Lev Kokin) , but unfortunately my russian is not good enoough. So if someone is able to grab hold of the russian litterture it would be really an improvement. Also, the role of the Jacks of Hearts is nebulous, I did not find much on them and a lot seems to be heavily stereotyped and not very factual. I am so glad that it was translated ! I got a little tired of the subject after working months on it to translate it in English so I am so thankful to see it has been done ! PLease feel free to ask your questions :) Nattes à chat ( talk) 20:16, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
PS I am now working on Madame de Warens and the French version is much better than the English one :)
"Un des enjeux pour Carolyn Eichner est de réévaluer le rôle politique de ces militantes qu’elle considère comme marginalisées, non seulement dans l’historiographie de la Commune, mais aussi dans l’historiographie du féminisme" => translation «One of the challenges for Carolyn Eichner is to reassess the political role of these activists, whom she considers to be marginalized, not only in the historiography of the Commune, but also in the historiography of feminism» This article quotes Carolyn Eichner's words in https://www.lhistoire.fr/la-commune-pas-de-r%C3%A9volution-sans-les-femmes
Dmitrieff by police reports, newspaper at the time of the commune and her counterparts. I own the book in electronic form and it is written in French. It probably is more complete than any other source (even Eichner) and it goes into detail about what people wrote and said about her (Benoit Malon, Lissaragy, the possible reason of André Léo's silence about Elisabeth and the fact she did not join the Union des femmes, the rivality with the other women, the idealisation by the russian biographers of the communist era). One thing is sure : until recently all sources say Louise Michelle was at the center of the focus as a woman in the Commune de Paris, and historians are now trying to pull out the other profiles into the light. Dmitrieff might have been ignored in France as Frankel because they were not French. I dont know how to share the book given the electronic format, but I could probably send the chapter in a print screen version provided the person understands French and I have an email adress. Nattes à chat ( talk) 00:44, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm sorry that I haven't addressed the concerns in a timely manner. I've gotten pretty busy lately, but I did fix some issues:
You can see here that the Internationale was very linked to these strikes https://books.google.ch/books?id=zMnaIg3x6ZIC&pg=PA11&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false, and Elisabeth was a an active member of the Internationale. Geneva is where she learned to be an activist, knowledge that she later made use of in Paris when she organized the women in L'Union des femmes. I have in French detailed the role of the russian section in Geneva here https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_internationale_des_travailleursBasically (even found a flag that was done by the women's section of the international.). So even if we know that Elisabeth in 1868 from Braibant's book was then in 1868 learning and discrete, we know she opposed Bakounine frontly at one point and came to Geneva just when the strikes were going on. We also know she was sent to London to represent the situation of the International in 1870 to Marx. We cannot draw conclusions but I think these elements and historical facts have to be mentionned to understand how she became what she was in the Commune. She inherited from her husband when he died later after the Commune (there was a big age difference). It was a marriage she arranged so that she could travel freely, all the sources agree on that. Nattes à chat ( talk) 16:59, 18 January 2022 (UTC) |
Hello all, I see a lot of excellent work is taking place to improve this article. I thought I may as well start my review now, so any concerns I find can be addressed while the article is still being polished. I will update the list below as I work. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
---|---|---|
1. Well-written: | ||
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. | ||
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. | the guidelines are all followed | |
2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. | ||
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). | a lot of cites here but the sources are all reliable and suitable | |
2c. it contains no original research. | very thoroughly grounded in sources | |
2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. | earwig looks good-- all the (low) hits are for names of organizations or direct quotes. | |
3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. | ||
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). | ||
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. | admirably neutral for a figure whose political work could clearly inspire strong partisanship | |
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. | ||
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. | problematic images have been removed | |
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | ||
7. Overall assessment. | looking good! |
As you go through these, maybe reply with a quick checkmark to each bullet.
~ L 🌸 (
talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC) -- Actually, just reply, and I'll add a checkmark when I've confirmed that the issue is addressed.
~ L 🌸 (
talk)
22:51, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Kushelev eventually married Troskevich in 1856, his first wife having died of cholera, after she intervened to save him when his serfs revolted.-- the events appear to be related in reverse-chronological order. Is the detail about serf revolt relevant in this sentence? ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
In spring 1868, Dmitrieff passed by Geneva-- I'm not sure what "passed by" means..? And now I am noticing how confusing it is that she decided to go to Geneva, but then actually goes to Switzerland and London. (Also confusing that there is a structural break in the middle of her 1868 travels.) ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
had all the confidence of the latter-- is "the latter" Utin? maybe "shared his confidence" would be clearer. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
They procured aid to the wounded.seems out of place when the article has not indicated who would be wounded or how/why. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
The goal of the Union of Women was the formation of a trade union chamber of female workers-- can it be integrated into a paragraph? ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Dmitrieff shared with Louise Michel the wish not to differentiate women from men.~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
In the days that followed, revolutionary institutions were put in place.-- maybe draw on a source from Paris Commune to state the obvious like "soldiers of the National Guard seized control of the city" and "for two months, the communards worked to establish an independent revolutionary government." And second, per the note I make below, spell out as suggested that it is the French National Army retaking the city on behalf of the Third Republic. I think those two sentences, in conjunction with the other details already present, would be enough to signal the full context. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:53, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
they retook control of Pariswho took it from whom (I can basically guess, but since there is no transition from the previous section to here, more context is useful) ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
group of feminist Trotskyists participating in the Women's Liberation Movement and the Revolutionary Marxist Alliance, obviously. Kidding. Looking at this again, I think it's disconnected trivia in this state, but would be an interesting mention if further expanded. I'm not inclined to do that myself right now, so I'll move it and the sources to the talk page for now. -- asilvering ( talk) 22:59, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
The Union of Women assembled more than 1,000 members.It's not clear if the cite for the next sentence covers this figure too. ~ L 🌸 ( talk) 22:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Some of the images like File:Commune de Paris barricade Place Blanche.jpg must be in the public domain for one reason or another, but I'm not sure if {{ PD-1923}} or {{ PD-1996}} applies. That should not be an obstacle for passing the article as GA. ( t · c) buidhe 21:02, 19 January 2022 (UTC)