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I happen to have several back issues of the now out of print "star Trek: The Magazine". Now, to the best of my knowledge these magazines use official canon, and I was curious if anyone had any objections to using these as sources in the article.
I don't understand why the title of this article is only "Garak"? Elim is his first name. It should be the title of the article, not a redirect.-- Fallout boy 08:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I wonder if Garak was named after special effects guy Gary Monak, who's listed in the end credits of some DS9 episodes. ShutterBugTrekker 17:57, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
One of the absolute best Garak lines ever...
"You know what the worst part is? ... I'm a very good tailor."
-Yeah, Garak was my favorite character on the show. I always liked the expat dynamic, the exile's love of country, all the intrigue of his past, of which we've only seen a little...Garak rocks.
Could I recommend this for a future update? I have looked around, but have not found a complete episode list for Garak. So, I just added a link to StarTrek.com's 10 greatest Garak episodes. I think a complete list would be a nice addition to this marvelous entry. MetaChimp
The controversy section about Garak possibly being bisexual or gay is complete conjecture and the justifications for this belief are quite juvenile.
How for instance, having a mysterious past would lead one to believe that you might be gay, is beyond me. And the idea of his profession as a tailor being "more gay" than others is just playing on the current stereotype of gays having a good sense of style, which somehow is supposed to tell you something about an alien, living on an alien space station, 400 years in the future? And "effeminate mannerisms"? Some examples would be nice because I do not remember any of Garak’s mannerisms that scream gay.
Just because some "gay friendly" Star Trek fans go out of their way to see hints of gayness does not mean that their intuition has any basis in fact. The only piece of information that could be possibly worthwhile in this whole section is about Robinson mentioning that he played the character as if he were bi-sexual. But the quote is paraphrased and not sourced.
It is also brought into doubt by the fact that Garak had a female love interest in a book about Garak’s past written by Robinson himself.
And I'm still not sure what playing a character as if he were bi-sexual means. Far as I remember, Garak did not make any moves on anybody, male or female. I guess he tended to stand a little too close to people, and stare them down with an insincere smile, but that was just to unnerve them.
Basically I think that the section should be removed, unless someone can come up with some decent sources for this information.
That being said, i removed a line at the end of the "Exile" paragraph where it states that Garak and Ziyal fell in love with eachother. Anyone who watched the series would/should know that, while Ziyal was in love with Garak, he never returned those feelings. Sure, he never told her to stop, but he never did anything back either. When Ziyal died, he said that he did not understand what she had seen in him.
Frankly, I think that since the actor playing Garak (not "Garek" as noted by The Matrix Prime) considered him bisexual, this concept is worth a mention here ( 151.152.101.44 ( talk) 20:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)).
There is something about Garak though. Anyone with a whit of imagination will consider the gay possibility either as fact or metaphor. There's something else though - he's CLEVER. Clever characters in telly programmes are often seen passing. Anyone seen passing is going to invite speculation about why. Seven of Nine is the same.
I don't know enough about the subject to correct it, but I can't make sense of it:
Anyone know enough to fix it?-- Anchoress 22:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
This article is mostly written well, but it has a major problem: it mixes canon and non-canon material haphazardly. The non-canon material is a book written by Andrew Robinson, which makes it worth mentioning, but the way the article is written, it's impossible to tell what information is from the series, and thus canon, and what information is from the book, and thus not. That's a big problem. The book should be included, but it should have its own section instead of being mixed in throughout, with nothing to distinguish it from the series. I've never read the book (and it's been a while since I've seen much of the series), so I'm not qualified to do this rewrite, but in my opinion, it needs to be done. Jcb9 02:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed this section. "Memorable" is subjective/non-NPOV -- strictly speaking, everything he says (and more Garak than most other Trek characters) is to some degree "[re]memorable", and we're not going to put all his dialog there. "Notable" quotes would be more significant, but lacking a citation about what makes them memorable, that doesn't work either -- and, unfortunately, WP:ILIKEIT isn't a reason to keep this, either. Lastly, straight-up quotes should be over in Wikiquote. If someone wants to move them over there, by all means... -- EEMeltonIV 11:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I revamped Garak's "bio". Garak is a fictional character and being a fictional character, should not have an actual bio like (example) Ghandi. His story needs to be told as being relevent to the rest of the series, not side stories like his stationing on Romulus and stuff like that. -- VorangorTheDemon 18:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not the one to add this information, not having yet seen any Garak and Ziyal episodes, but I've read enough on the Net to know they exist! If nothing is added by the time Netflix catches me up on these episodes, I'll add them. ( 151.152.101.44 ( talk) 19:36, 28 March 2008 (UTC))
Here is a quote from the Star Trek company site which in turn quotes from their official book, Deep Space Nine Companion:
"Of the death of Ziyal itself, Hans Beimler says, "We understood the ramifications on all the characters. We'd built up her relationship with Garak. The girl who always told the truth had fallen in love with the guy who never tells the truth - or all of the truth. It made for a nice tragic love story, and her death served to motivate Garak in his future actions." (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)."
I think removing her wholesale from past versions of this page represents personal interpretations (or even wishful thinking about) the character of Elim Garak rather than canon and what the creators of canon said they had in mind. 151.152.101.44 ( talk) 19:00, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
1) Within the series he killed a Romulan official but this would be considered "assassination". 2) During the Dominion War he was part of the resistance but this would not be considered murder. 3) He killed during the defense of DS9 at the beginning of season 4, but once again, not murder. 4) During the occupation he most likely killed Bajorans. However, this was part of his duties as an intelligence officer. So once again, this would not count as murder.
For these reasons, I suggest removing Garak's listing under "fictional murderers". —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Slaw0710 (
talk •
contribs) 23:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
That picture looks like Dukat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.188.126.180 ( talk) 03:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
151.152.101.44 ( talk) 00:25, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
I do not recognize Garak in this picture Safaribar ( talk) 22:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I did not recognize the picture either at first, but it is indeed Elim Garak from 'In the Pale Moonlight'. A different picture might be better given the angle of this particular one makes it difficult to recognize immediately.
Garak addressed Cardassia at the end, but no mention is made in the article? Hackwrench ( talk) 03:37, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
First of- Garak is my favorite character in the series- if not in all of Star Trek. He exudes the look of someone who is so traumatized from his work as a spy that he cannot switch it off. He's always aware of his surroundings to the point of obvious. His rapport with Bashir, the way he kept Odo entertained with tales of spy stories when he was sick, how he and Ducat could drive each other nuts, and how he and Ziyal found each other- all great moments.
After reading the article and reading the talk, it looks like the description of his character is based on someone asking the actor if he played the character as a gay person. That's just dumb. I see it more as he played someone who was once a real spy and was tortured by the covert and sometimes lethal things he had to do in the name of protecting his world and not having any emotional support or coping mechanisms. He's just always on the lookout.
Someone who feels like they're constantly struggling with keeping something a secret (or enjoying the attention) might behave similarly. Stressed, neck and shoulders tensed, eyes darting, speaking in innuendo... might relate. But homosexuals can't take credit for those traits. Jawz101 ( talk) 16:12, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
I happen to have several back issues of the now out of print "star Trek: The Magazine". Now, to the best of my knowledge these magazines use official canon, and I was curious if anyone had any objections to using these as sources in the article.
I don't understand why the title of this article is only "Garak"? Elim is his first name. It should be the title of the article, not a redirect.-- Fallout boy 08:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I wonder if Garak was named after special effects guy Gary Monak, who's listed in the end credits of some DS9 episodes. ShutterBugTrekker 17:57, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
One of the absolute best Garak lines ever...
"You know what the worst part is? ... I'm a very good tailor."
-Yeah, Garak was my favorite character on the show. I always liked the expat dynamic, the exile's love of country, all the intrigue of his past, of which we've only seen a little...Garak rocks.
Could I recommend this for a future update? I have looked around, but have not found a complete episode list for Garak. So, I just added a link to StarTrek.com's 10 greatest Garak episodes. I think a complete list would be a nice addition to this marvelous entry. MetaChimp
The controversy section about Garak possibly being bisexual or gay is complete conjecture and the justifications for this belief are quite juvenile.
How for instance, having a mysterious past would lead one to believe that you might be gay, is beyond me. And the idea of his profession as a tailor being "more gay" than others is just playing on the current stereotype of gays having a good sense of style, which somehow is supposed to tell you something about an alien, living on an alien space station, 400 years in the future? And "effeminate mannerisms"? Some examples would be nice because I do not remember any of Garak’s mannerisms that scream gay.
Just because some "gay friendly" Star Trek fans go out of their way to see hints of gayness does not mean that their intuition has any basis in fact. The only piece of information that could be possibly worthwhile in this whole section is about Robinson mentioning that he played the character as if he were bi-sexual. But the quote is paraphrased and not sourced.
It is also brought into doubt by the fact that Garak had a female love interest in a book about Garak’s past written by Robinson himself.
And I'm still not sure what playing a character as if he were bi-sexual means. Far as I remember, Garak did not make any moves on anybody, male or female. I guess he tended to stand a little too close to people, and stare them down with an insincere smile, but that was just to unnerve them.
Basically I think that the section should be removed, unless someone can come up with some decent sources for this information.
That being said, i removed a line at the end of the "Exile" paragraph where it states that Garak and Ziyal fell in love with eachother. Anyone who watched the series would/should know that, while Ziyal was in love with Garak, he never returned those feelings. Sure, he never told her to stop, but he never did anything back either. When Ziyal died, he said that he did not understand what she had seen in him.
Frankly, I think that since the actor playing Garak (not "Garek" as noted by The Matrix Prime) considered him bisexual, this concept is worth a mention here ( 151.152.101.44 ( talk) 20:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)).
There is something about Garak though. Anyone with a whit of imagination will consider the gay possibility either as fact or metaphor. There's something else though - he's CLEVER. Clever characters in telly programmes are often seen passing. Anyone seen passing is going to invite speculation about why. Seven of Nine is the same.
I don't know enough about the subject to correct it, but I can't make sense of it:
Anyone know enough to fix it?-- Anchoress 22:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
This article is mostly written well, but it has a major problem: it mixes canon and non-canon material haphazardly. The non-canon material is a book written by Andrew Robinson, which makes it worth mentioning, but the way the article is written, it's impossible to tell what information is from the series, and thus canon, and what information is from the book, and thus not. That's a big problem. The book should be included, but it should have its own section instead of being mixed in throughout, with nothing to distinguish it from the series. I've never read the book (and it's been a while since I've seen much of the series), so I'm not qualified to do this rewrite, but in my opinion, it needs to be done. Jcb9 02:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed this section. "Memorable" is subjective/non-NPOV -- strictly speaking, everything he says (and more Garak than most other Trek characters) is to some degree "[re]memorable", and we're not going to put all his dialog there. "Notable" quotes would be more significant, but lacking a citation about what makes them memorable, that doesn't work either -- and, unfortunately, WP:ILIKEIT isn't a reason to keep this, either. Lastly, straight-up quotes should be over in Wikiquote. If someone wants to move them over there, by all means... -- EEMeltonIV 11:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I revamped Garak's "bio". Garak is a fictional character and being a fictional character, should not have an actual bio like (example) Ghandi. His story needs to be told as being relevent to the rest of the series, not side stories like his stationing on Romulus and stuff like that. -- VorangorTheDemon 18:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not the one to add this information, not having yet seen any Garak and Ziyal episodes, but I've read enough on the Net to know they exist! If nothing is added by the time Netflix catches me up on these episodes, I'll add them. ( 151.152.101.44 ( talk) 19:36, 28 March 2008 (UTC))
Here is a quote from the Star Trek company site which in turn quotes from their official book, Deep Space Nine Companion:
"Of the death of Ziyal itself, Hans Beimler says, "We understood the ramifications on all the characters. We'd built up her relationship with Garak. The girl who always told the truth had fallen in love with the guy who never tells the truth - or all of the truth. It made for a nice tragic love story, and her death served to motivate Garak in his future actions." (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)."
I think removing her wholesale from past versions of this page represents personal interpretations (or even wishful thinking about) the character of Elim Garak rather than canon and what the creators of canon said they had in mind. 151.152.101.44 ( talk) 19:00, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
1) Within the series he killed a Romulan official but this would be considered "assassination". 2) During the Dominion War he was part of the resistance but this would not be considered murder. 3) He killed during the defense of DS9 at the beginning of season 4, but once again, not murder. 4) During the occupation he most likely killed Bajorans. However, this was part of his duties as an intelligence officer. So once again, this would not count as murder.
For these reasons, I suggest removing Garak's listing under "fictional murderers". —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Slaw0710 (
talk •
contribs) 23:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
That picture looks like Dukat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.188.126.180 ( talk) 03:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
151.152.101.44 ( talk) 00:25, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
I do not recognize Garak in this picture Safaribar ( talk) 22:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I did not recognize the picture either at first, but it is indeed Elim Garak from 'In the Pale Moonlight'. A different picture might be better given the angle of this particular one makes it difficult to recognize immediately.
Garak addressed Cardassia at the end, but no mention is made in the article? Hackwrench ( talk) 03:37, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
First of- Garak is my favorite character in the series- if not in all of Star Trek. He exudes the look of someone who is so traumatized from his work as a spy that he cannot switch it off. He's always aware of his surroundings to the point of obvious. His rapport with Bashir, the way he kept Odo entertained with tales of spy stories when he was sick, how he and Ducat could drive each other nuts, and how he and Ziyal found each other- all great moments.
After reading the article and reading the talk, it looks like the description of his character is based on someone asking the actor if he played the character as a gay person. That's just dumb. I see it more as he played someone who was once a real spy and was tortured by the covert and sometimes lethal things he had to do in the name of protecting his world and not having any emotional support or coping mechanisms. He's just always on the lookout.
Someone who feels like they're constantly struggling with keeping something a secret (or enjoying the attention) might behave similarly. Stressed, neck and shoulders tensed, eyes darting, speaking in innuendo... might relate. But homosexuals can't take credit for those traits. Jawz101 ( talk) 16:12, 28 April 2019 (UTC)