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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 7, 2014 and November 7, 2022. |
I've again removed the photo. It is not Elijah Lovejoy.
For the last couple of years, I've been using the fact that I was able to delete Lovejoy's photo here immediately while the vetting process meant that Britannica had it on their online site for two or three months before correcting it (after I brought it to their attention), not to mention the fact that of course our 2003 print edition *still* has it, as an example of how Wikipedia can be better than Encyclopedia Britannica. I find it very discouraging to discover that had been re-linked without even an addition to the discussion page giving a reason for it.
THE PHOTO LABELED "ELIJAH LOVEJOY" IS NOT ELIJAH LOVEJOY. It is probably a photo of Owen Lovejoy. There are no photos of Elijah, and if one were discovered it would be a photo of tremendous importance to the history of photography, as he died several years before the first known photo of a living human being. Original discussion below under "Fake Photo" but I'm putting this up top to help keep it from happening again. Steve Bolhafner 19:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
---
I am uncertain about that picture. I have also seen it as a picture of Lovejoy's brother, Owen. And it looks like a photograph, which is effectively out of the question for someone who died in 1837.
I came across an interesting detail in an old Finnish anti-slavery book that I don't consider a source reputable enough to add straight away: His gravesite went unmarked for a long time, and when he got a monument it had the words "jam parce sepulto" (spare these remains), a fitting thing on the grave of someone who was mobbed to death. A Google search gives good-looking references, but a very small number of them. -- Kizor 18:43, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Louis-Jacques-Mandé Daguerre invented the first practical process for making photographs, from which all modern photography follows. He announced his invention to the world in 1839.
There cannot possibly be a photograph of Elijah P. Lovejoy, who died in 1837.
I'm a news librarian at a newspaper that ran a correction today because someone here pulled this photo off the article and ran it in the paper.
I'm removing the photo from the article so this doesn't happen to anyone else.
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:26, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
It links to some sketchy-looking sites and a "The article requested can not be found" page. The only Google results I can find on this "French-American General Girin" character are about his relationship with Lovejoy and are copied from this page. Can anyone prove this guy actually existed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.195.151.84 ( talk) 21:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
nevermind.. fixed itself
I see the article is under recent editing, so I won't jump in and make the changes. Not to pick nits, but: (1) perhaps a different word might be used to describe his killing, rather than "murdered", which is a legal term, and isn't accurate without a legal provenance ... using a legal term inaccurately (even if it's colloquially correct) degrades the quality of an encyclopedia article; and (2) regarding the phrase "lynching of a free black man", inclusion of the word "free" is irrelevant to the point and is (without intent) obnoxiously superfluous. Regards, Notuncurious ( talk) 02:27, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
You are nitpicking. 1. "Murder" is a perfectly accurate term to describe terminal violence executed without legal justification or authority. The mob doubtlessly embodied the town's majority sentiment when they murdered him, but they did not do so under any legal justification or civil authority. You could say the word "murder" is NPOV, as it has implies a moral value judgment. But I think most sensible people would be comfortable with that, since by all accounts he was murdered defending his own property. 2. The phrase "lynching of a free black man" is in fact a useful description. The word "free" describes him as not being a slave. If they had lynched a slave they could be held legally and/or financially liable for destruction of private property unless the owner consented. But a "free" black man lived soley on the surrounding community's good intentions, which were lost when he was accused of murder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.138.41.10 ( talk) 13:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
The lede is quite long and detailed considering the overall length of this article. It also contains content that is not in the body of the article - will edit to make it conform to Wiki standards. Parkwells ( talk) 20:58, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
You should put more information about Lovejoys marriage in the marriage column. I personally think that one or two sentences could NEVER be good for a section unless absolutely necessary. If not, please put it inside another section somewhere instead of making a separate section. BillySM64 ([[User talk:BillySM64[talk]]) 6:05, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
In the Wikipedia article on John Brown, there is this sentence: In 1837, in response to the murder of Elijah P. Lovejoy, Brown publicly vowed: “Here, before God, in the presence of these witnesses, from this time, I consecrate my life to the destruction of slavery!”
This is significant. I do not know if Brown knew Lovejoy, or if he simply found this to be the straw that broke the camel's back. Since many historians seem to think that Brown's radical acts and Harper's Ferry, in particular, had much to do with the Civil War, given the fear by Southerners that his raid was merely the first of many insurrections to come, I think this stimulus of Lovejoy's death is worth noting in the article.
Jeffrey M. Fischer Fisje01 ( talk) 15:13, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
The lede seems to me to summarise the article very adequately. I assume that other people have edited the lede since the request was posted. Valetude ( talk) 16:30, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
"The family continues to be active in social justice issues, especially modern abolition: Martha Lovejoy is a supervisor in the U.S. State Department's Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons, which coordinates the United States Government's efforts to combat modern forms of slavery."
What are we selling here? 194.230.214.119 ( talk) 06:18, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
To track and hopefully get sources for uncited / possibly original research content:
From the first paragraph of the St. Louis section:
References
From the Mob attack and death section:
Parkwells, Thanks very much for the recent copy edits, the article looks really good now.
There is one sentence without a citation: "Gilman and some other supporters were prosecuted for riot, but charges were dismissed."
Is there a source for this?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 22:56, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
The Alton Telegraph article (cite added today) had a list of defenders of the warehouse, including the owner W.S. Gilman, and also a list of people being prosecuted as attackers. The former included at least one other minister than Lovejoy, and Henry Tanner, noted as an abolitionist. Do you think it is useful to include these two lists? May suggest something about the communities there. (Or may be TMI - it is available if people want to read sources.) Parkwells ( talk) 00:46, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
There was an edit that removed the wikilink from the St. Louis Times - with the edit summary of "This link goes to a different newspaper than the one described in the sentence, so I deleted it."
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 6 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gmtz81902 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Gmtz81902.
— Assignment last updated by Gmtz81902 ( talk) 19:22, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
@ Ark2 and Devonian Wombat: I see that the following information was added and deleted:
with the comment "Removed badly worded information with malformed sources"
What do you think?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 21:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 7, 2014 and November 7, 2022. |
I've again removed the photo. It is not Elijah Lovejoy.
For the last couple of years, I've been using the fact that I was able to delete Lovejoy's photo here immediately while the vetting process meant that Britannica had it on their online site for two or three months before correcting it (after I brought it to their attention), not to mention the fact that of course our 2003 print edition *still* has it, as an example of how Wikipedia can be better than Encyclopedia Britannica. I find it very discouraging to discover that had been re-linked without even an addition to the discussion page giving a reason for it.
THE PHOTO LABELED "ELIJAH LOVEJOY" IS NOT ELIJAH LOVEJOY. It is probably a photo of Owen Lovejoy. There are no photos of Elijah, and if one were discovered it would be a photo of tremendous importance to the history of photography, as he died several years before the first known photo of a living human being. Original discussion below under "Fake Photo" but I'm putting this up top to help keep it from happening again. Steve Bolhafner 19:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
---
I am uncertain about that picture. I have also seen it as a picture of Lovejoy's brother, Owen. And it looks like a photograph, which is effectively out of the question for someone who died in 1837.
I came across an interesting detail in an old Finnish anti-slavery book that I don't consider a source reputable enough to add straight away: His gravesite went unmarked for a long time, and when he got a monument it had the words "jam parce sepulto" (spare these remains), a fitting thing on the grave of someone who was mobbed to death. A Google search gives good-looking references, but a very small number of them. -- Kizor 18:43, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Louis-Jacques-Mandé Daguerre invented the first practical process for making photographs, from which all modern photography follows. He announced his invention to the world in 1839.
There cannot possibly be a photograph of Elijah P. Lovejoy, who died in 1837.
I'm a news librarian at a newspaper that ran a correction today because someone here pulled this photo off the article and ran it in the paper.
I'm removing the photo from the article so this doesn't happen to anyone else.
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:26, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
It links to some sketchy-looking sites and a "The article requested can not be found" page. The only Google results I can find on this "French-American General Girin" character are about his relationship with Lovejoy and are copied from this page. Can anyone prove this guy actually existed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.195.151.84 ( talk) 21:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
nevermind.. fixed itself
I see the article is under recent editing, so I won't jump in and make the changes. Not to pick nits, but: (1) perhaps a different word might be used to describe his killing, rather than "murdered", which is a legal term, and isn't accurate without a legal provenance ... using a legal term inaccurately (even if it's colloquially correct) degrades the quality of an encyclopedia article; and (2) regarding the phrase "lynching of a free black man", inclusion of the word "free" is irrelevant to the point and is (without intent) obnoxiously superfluous. Regards, Notuncurious ( talk) 02:27, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
You are nitpicking. 1. "Murder" is a perfectly accurate term to describe terminal violence executed without legal justification or authority. The mob doubtlessly embodied the town's majority sentiment when they murdered him, but they did not do so under any legal justification or civil authority. You could say the word "murder" is NPOV, as it has implies a moral value judgment. But I think most sensible people would be comfortable with that, since by all accounts he was murdered defending his own property. 2. The phrase "lynching of a free black man" is in fact a useful description. The word "free" describes him as not being a slave. If they had lynched a slave they could be held legally and/or financially liable for destruction of private property unless the owner consented. But a "free" black man lived soley on the surrounding community's good intentions, which were lost when he was accused of murder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.138.41.10 ( talk) 13:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
The lede is quite long and detailed considering the overall length of this article. It also contains content that is not in the body of the article - will edit to make it conform to Wiki standards. Parkwells ( talk) 20:58, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
You should put more information about Lovejoys marriage in the marriage column. I personally think that one or two sentences could NEVER be good for a section unless absolutely necessary. If not, please put it inside another section somewhere instead of making a separate section. BillySM64 ([[User talk:BillySM64[talk]]) 6:05, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
In the Wikipedia article on John Brown, there is this sentence: In 1837, in response to the murder of Elijah P. Lovejoy, Brown publicly vowed: “Here, before God, in the presence of these witnesses, from this time, I consecrate my life to the destruction of slavery!”
This is significant. I do not know if Brown knew Lovejoy, or if he simply found this to be the straw that broke the camel's back. Since many historians seem to think that Brown's radical acts and Harper's Ferry, in particular, had much to do with the Civil War, given the fear by Southerners that his raid was merely the first of many insurrections to come, I think this stimulus of Lovejoy's death is worth noting in the article.
Jeffrey M. Fischer Fisje01 ( talk) 15:13, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
The lede seems to me to summarise the article very adequately. I assume that other people have edited the lede since the request was posted. Valetude ( talk) 16:30, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
"The family continues to be active in social justice issues, especially modern abolition: Martha Lovejoy is a supervisor in the U.S. State Department's Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons, which coordinates the United States Government's efforts to combat modern forms of slavery."
What are we selling here? 194.230.214.119 ( talk) 06:18, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
To track and hopefully get sources for uncited / possibly original research content:
From the first paragraph of the St. Louis section:
References
From the Mob attack and death section:
Parkwells, Thanks very much for the recent copy edits, the article looks really good now.
There is one sentence without a citation: "Gilman and some other supporters were prosecuted for riot, but charges were dismissed."
Is there a source for this?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 22:56, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
The Alton Telegraph article (cite added today) had a list of defenders of the warehouse, including the owner W.S. Gilman, and also a list of people being prosecuted as attackers. The former included at least one other minister than Lovejoy, and Henry Tanner, noted as an abolitionist. Do you think it is useful to include these two lists? May suggest something about the communities there. (Or may be TMI - it is available if people want to read sources.) Parkwells ( talk) 00:46, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
There was an edit that removed the wikilink from the St. Louis Times - with the edit summary of "This link goes to a different newspaper than the one described in the sentence, so I deleted it."
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 6 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gmtz81902 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Gmtz81902.
— Assignment last updated by Gmtz81902 ( talk) 19:22, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
@ Ark2 and Devonian Wombat: I see that the following information was added and deleted:
with the comment "Removed badly worded information with malformed sources"
What do you think?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 21:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)