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While Yale may have been born in Boston, MA, his family moved to Wales when he was two and he spent the rest of his entire childhood and youth growing up in Wales. He spent most of his working life in India and then spent his retirement back in Wales. He never once went to America. I do not know what he claimed to be but most people would not call him an "American". 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 18:58, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
I propose editing the initial paragraph to "...was an English merchant..." And expanding the section about his early life: "Yale was born in Boston, MA, but his parents moved to England when he was two years old." To say he was an American would mean changing many other contemporary entries in Wikipedia - they were born in America (and some lived there for over 20 years) before living in England. They are called English. There was also no "American" country or concept of "American" citizenship at that time; but also - because of the important contribution they made to English society and English history; because they spent their adult lives in England; because they came from English families. He was certainly "a native of America". ( 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 23:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC))
Reasonable time has passed and no one has commented either way so I'll make the change. ( 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 14:05, 30 April 2016 (UTC))
Also - Britain didn't exist until way after his death so "British" is not applicable (we don't call Roman Emperors "Italian"). The "where he was born" and "his family background" can/should clearly be mentioned in the "Early Life / Life" section. Neither of the recent edits is warranted but the discussion is still open... 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 22:36, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Alexandra Robbins alleges that Yale's headstone was stolen years ago from its proper setting in Wrexham. She further alleges that the tombstone is now displayed in a glass case in a room with purple walls.
![]() | This
edit request to
Elihu Yale has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Elihu Yale’s fondness for slaves may be found in two oil paintings that used to hang at the Yale University: in each of them, a floridly accoutred Yale is flaunting his good fortune with a small dark-skinned boy, a Tamil it would seem, by their side. What makes the image even more distasteful is that the boy wears a collar like a domesticated wild animal, around his neck. (see https://scroll.in/magazine/829298/the-indian-history-of-the-racist-slave-trading-yale-university-founder)It is irresponsible to be whitewashing the history of this slave trader. 2601:584:301:5130:9CE1:952:22D1:F2C6 ( talk) 04:40, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
It currently has the phrase "very much against their will" as a qualification to the children being kidnapped. This is redundant since kidnapping is by definition against one's will. 2600:1700:7D0:97A0:EC72:CA58:675:C41F ( talk) 19:46, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Elihu Yale has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There is no mention of Eli being a SLAVE TRADER!! 2601:152:4501:BFF0:BD0C:F077:C376:226B ( talk) 22:10, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
On 09:17, 9 June 2020 I made these edits by just moving the sections around. I never changed the wording, just the order to make it read better.
I was interested in this article because the man had estates near where I live and it was a piss poor article as it stood because the sections were just facts in no discernible chronological order.
Anyway after just reordering the content and not really changing anything my edits were almost immediately reverted by MaterialScientist (probably one of the most egregious editors on this site). Remember I never changed anything except reorder the sections and the already written paragraphs. But apparently that was not acceptable to this individual. They would rather have a crap article that they protect than a well written one.
Now I see the page has been blocked to people with common sense and fresh perspective and the usual (I will ask somebody else to do the work for me) tags have also been added. It's quite pathetic really. In fact it's more than pathetic, when you take what is written and make it better but then it's reverted by people who have no vested in the content only control. The article is a chronological mess that jumps forward and back in time through just a random list of facts.
And you can thank MaterialScientist for that. Until more people complain about this person, the more crap article like this will continue. 81.159.166.232 ( talk) 13:20, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
The fact that Elihu Yale is a slave trader is sourced in the article and as well as in numerous additional source mentioned here. It is a notable aspect of the man and should not be removed. Additionally, text that people have argued he was an abolitionist have no supporting citations, save one article that describes Elihu Yale as a slave trader but references past versions of the Wikipedia article. This would be a particularly obvious example of citogenesis; the claim that some consider him an abolitionist should not be in the article unless an actual source illustrating this can be found. Editors should not engage in disruptive editing without citing sources. Ummonk ( talk) 03:29, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
The primary texts unambiguously document not only Elihu Yale's involvement in trading, punishing, and executing slaves, but also a specific incident with his slave named Cross (who Yale hanged for riding a horse without permission).
"...some of them have been so fond of that privilege that Mr. Yale hanged his groom (Cross) for riding two or three days' journey off to take the air..."
This incident was also mentioned in the most comprehensive, 20th Century history of Fort Saint George.
The hanging incident was mentioned in Indian press (in perhaps the most prestigious paper in India, _The Hindu_) upon former President Levin's visit in 2005:
The primary texts such as the Records of Fort Saint George do not make a distinction between terms like groom and manservant, and these social positions were synonymous with the word "slave" (which they used in property, trade, and criminal records). The curators note for one of the three portraits of Elihu Yale with a male slave refers exactly to this:
"Nothing is known about the boy on the right, who has just finished pouring Madeira (a sweet, fortified wine) into the glasses on the table. His fine red and grey livery (or uniform) identifies him as a servant, and the silver collar and padlock around his neck indicate that he is enslaved."
It's possible the slave in this painting is Cross, but of course we have no way of knowing.
For more tertiary evidence, it is clear from the primary sources and more modern histories that each representative of the British East India Company had slaves assigned to their manors in "White Town", where the rulers were segregated from "Black Town". I see no reason to give Elihu Yale the benefit of the doubt, especially when his cruelty was notable to even his 18th Century contemporaries.
24.63.168.193 ( talk) 16:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Elihu Yale has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove references to Elihu Yale as a "slave trader."
Elihu Yale was not a slave trader in the way the term is used by the vast majority of people. Footnotes 1 and 7 which purportedly supports the term, calls him a slave trader "[a]lthough he probably did not own any of these people – the majority were held as the property of the East India Company – he certainly profited both directly and indirectly from their sale." I.e., Elihu Yale did not own slaves or personally trade them.
There may be activist or academic reasons to call someone a slave trader who "profited" from the slave trade. But that's not the way it's commonly used in English. It's highly misleading to retain it. Nycbusiness86 ( talk) 17:41, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
RexAntica is insisting - with no discussion or even the courtesy of edit summaries - that the section about Yale's involvement in the slave trade and the naming of Yale University (a) have the unhelpfully vague title of "Controversy" and (b) state that Yale "was never a slave trader, never owned slaves, opposed the slave trade, and imposed several restrictions on it during his tenure." The only source that RexAntica cites for this statement is an article in a student newspaper, an article that also includes the blunt statement that "disagreement over Elihu Yale’s involvement in the slave trade persists."
@ RexAntica: Why are you insisting on this vague title and why are you misrepresenting this issue by pulling out only part of (very weak) source? ElKevbo ( talk) 05:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Why is this not discussed? I’m literally shaking RN!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:587:100:97:AD55:260C:D011:8929 ( talk) 00:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Sounds like you should get some help if you're that upset about something that has no evidence of being true. M4570D0N ( talk) 18:25, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
A quick search for reliable sources proves otherwise.
There's no reason to deny the claim or hint that it's a rumor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vivian James ( talk • contribs) 04:50, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Elihu Yale was indeed a slave trader. Naturally, this will never be mentioned on Wikipedia. We've got to protect Yale's reputation. The admins will ban anyone who tries to add this well documented fact to the article. And in a few months, this section of the talk page will be purged as well, under the guise of "maintenance". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceran ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
In his address to the Yale Class of 2019, Yale Dean Jonathan Holloway stated, referring to Elihu Yale: "there’s no doubting the fact that he participated in the slave trade, profiting from the sale of humans" https://yalealumnimagazine.com/articles/4171-yales-narrative-andyours — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.243.187 ( talk) 16:16, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
I find it interesting and typical that his slaver history has been muted by no more than a self serving article by a student at Yale. It seems that woke only goes so far if it threatens a progressives employment prospects. No point in editing here given the partisanship. 174.89.237.182 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:05, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
I made an attempt to make a longer lead section and summarize the important points of the article. Feedback welcome. 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:11, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
The Family, Ancestry, and "Marriage and Children" sections seem too detailed and not salient. I propose moving this content to a new article "Genealogy of Elihu Yale". 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
While Yale may have been born in Boston, MA, his family moved to Wales when he was two and he spent the rest of his entire childhood and youth growing up in Wales. He spent most of his working life in India and then spent his retirement back in Wales. He never once went to America. I do not know what he claimed to be but most people would not call him an "American". 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 18:58, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
I propose editing the initial paragraph to "...was an English merchant..." And expanding the section about his early life: "Yale was born in Boston, MA, but his parents moved to England when he was two years old." To say he was an American would mean changing many other contemporary entries in Wikipedia - they were born in America (and some lived there for over 20 years) before living in England. They are called English. There was also no "American" country or concept of "American" citizenship at that time; but also - because of the important contribution they made to English society and English history; because they spent their adult lives in England; because they came from English families. He was certainly "a native of America". ( 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 23:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC))
Reasonable time has passed and no one has commented either way so I'll make the change. ( 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 14:05, 30 April 2016 (UTC))
Also - Britain didn't exist until way after his death so "British" is not applicable (we don't call Roman Emperors "Italian"). The "where he was born" and "his family background" can/should clearly be mentioned in the "Early Life / Life" section. Neither of the recent edits is warranted but the discussion is still open... 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 22:36, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Alexandra Robbins alleges that Yale's headstone was stolen years ago from its proper setting in Wrexham. She further alleges that the tombstone is now displayed in a glass case in a room with purple walls.
![]() | This
edit request to
Elihu Yale has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Elihu Yale’s fondness for slaves may be found in two oil paintings that used to hang at the Yale University: in each of them, a floridly accoutred Yale is flaunting his good fortune with a small dark-skinned boy, a Tamil it would seem, by their side. What makes the image even more distasteful is that the boy wears a collar like a domesticated wild animal, around his neck. (see https://scroll.in/magazine/829298/the-indian-history-of-the-racist-slave-trading-yale-university-founder)It is irresponsible to be whitewashing the history of this slave trader. 2601:584:301:5130:9CE1:952:22D1:F2C6 ( talk) 04:40, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
It currently has the phrase "very much against their will" as a qualification to the children being kidnapped. This is redundant since kidnapping is by definition against one's will. 2600:1700:7D0:97A0:EC72:CA58:675:C41F ( talk) 19:46, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Elihu Yale has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There is no mention of Eli being a SLAVE TRADER!! 2601:152:4501:BFF0:BD0C:F077:C376:226B ( talk) 22:10, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
On 09:17, 9 June 2020 I made these edits by just moving the sections around. I never changed the wording, just the order to make it read better.
I was interested in this article because the man had estates near where I live and it was a piss poor article as it stood because the sections were just facts in no discernible chronological order.
Anyway after just reordering the content and not really changing anything my edits were almost immediately reverted by MaterialScientist (probably one of the most egregious editors on this site). Remember I never changed anything except reorder the sections and the already written paragraphs. But apparently that was not acceptable to this individual. They would rather have a crap article that they protect than a well written one.
Now I see the page has been blocked to people with common sense and fresh perspective and the usual (I will ask somebody else to do the work for me) tags have also been added. It's quite pathetic really. In fact it's more than pathetic, when you take what is written and make it better but then it's reverted by people who have no vested in the content only control. The article is a chronological mess that jumps forward and back in time through just a random list of facts.
And you can thank MaterialScientist for that. Until more people complain about this person, the more crap article like this will continue. 81.159.166.232 ( talk) 13:20, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
The primary texts unambiguously document not only Elihu Yale's involvement in trading, punishing, and executing slaves, but also a specific incident with his slave named Cross (who Yale hanged for riding a horse without permission).
"...some of them have been so fond of that privilege that Mr. Yale hanged his groom (Cross) for riding two or three days' journey off to take the air..."
This incident was also mentioned in the most comprehensive, 20th Century history of Fort Saint George.
The hanging incident was mentioned in Indian press (in perhaps the most prestigious paper in India, _The Hindu_) upon former President Levin's visit in 2005:
The primary texts such as the Records of Fort Saint George do not make a distinction between terms like groom and manservant, and these social positions were synonymous with the word "slave" (which they used in property, trade, and criminal records). The curators note for one of the three portraits of Elihu Yale with a male slave refers exactly to this:
"Nothing is known about the boy on the right, who has just finished pouring Madeira (a sweet, fortified wine) into the glasses on the table. His fine red and grey livery (or uniform) identifies him as a servant, and the silver collar and padlock around his neck indicate that he is enslaved."
It's possible the slave in this painting is Cross, but of course we have no way of knowing.
For more tertiary evidence, it is clear from the primary sources and more modern histories that each representative of the British East India Company had slaves assigned to their manors in "White Town", where the rulers were segregated from "Black Town". I see no reason to give Elihu Yale the benefit of the doubt, especially when his cruelty was notable to even his 18th Century contemporaries.
24.63.168.193 ( talk) 16:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Elihu Yale has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove references to Elihu Yale as a "slave trader."
Elihu Yale was not a slave trader in the way the term is used by the vast majority of people. Footnotes 1 and 7 which purportedly supports the term, calls him a slave trader "[a]lthough he probably did not own any of these people – the majority were held as the property of the East India Company – he certainly profited both directly and indirectly from their sale." I.e., Elihu Yale did not own slaves or personally trade them.
There may be activist or academic reasons to call someone a slave trader who "profited" from the slave trade. But that's not the way it's commonly used in English. It's highly misleading to retain it. Nycbusiness86 ( talk) 17:41, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
RexAntica is insisting - with no discussion or even the courtesy of edit summaries - that the section about Yale's involvement in the slave trade and the naming of Yale University (a) have the unhelpfully vague title of "Controversy" and (b) state that Yale "was never a slave trader, never owned slaves, opposed the slave trade, and imposed several restrictions on it during his tenure." The only source that RexAntica cites for this statement is an article in a student newspaper, an article that also includes the blunt statement that "disagreement over Elihu Yale’s involvement in the slave trade persists."
@ RexAntica: Why are you insisting on this vague title and why are you misrepresenting this issue by pulling out only part of (very weak) source? ElKevbo ( talk) 05:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Why is this not discussed? I’m literally shaking RN!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:587:100:97:AD55:260C:D011:8929 ( talk) 00:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Sounds like you should get some help if you're that upset about something that has no evidence of being true. M4570D0N ( talk) 18:25, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
A quick search for reliable sources proves otherwise.
There's no reason to deny the claim or hint that it's a rumor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vivian James ( talk • contribs) 04:50, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Elihu Yale was indeed a slave trader. Naturally, this will never be mentioned on Wikipedia. We've got to protect Yale's reputation. The admins will ban anyone who tries to add this well documented fact to the article. And in a few months, this section of the talk page will be purged as well, under the guise of "maintenance". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceran ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
In his address to the Yale Class of 2019, Yale Dean Jonathan Holloway stated, referring to Elihu Yale: "there’s no doubting the fact that he participated in the slave trade, profiting from the sale of humans" https://yalealumnimagazine.com/articles/4171-yales-narrative-andyours — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.243.187 ( talk) 16:16, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
I find it interesting and typical that his slaver history has been muted by no more than a self serving article by a student at Yale. It seems that woke only goes so far if it threatens a progressives employment prospects. No point in editing here given the partisanship. 174.89.237.182 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:05, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
I made an attempt to make a longer lead section and summarize the important points of the article. Feedback welcome. 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:11, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
The Family, Ancestry, and "Marriage and Children" sections seem too detailed and not salient. I propose moving this content to a new article "Genealogy of Elihu Yale". 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Elihu Yale. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:58, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
While Yale may have been born in Boston, MA, his family moved to Wales when he was two and he spent the rest of his entire childhood and youth growing up in Wales. He spent most of his working life in India and then spent his retirement back in Wales. He never once went to America. I do not know what he claimed to be but most people would not call him an "American". 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 18:58, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
I propose editing the initial paragraph to "...was an English merchant..." And expanding the section about his early life: "Yale was born in Boston, MA, but his parents moved to England when he was two years old." To say he was an American would mean changing many other contemporary entries in Wikipedia - they were born in America (and some lived there for over 20 years) before living in England. They are called English. There was also no "American" country or concept of "American" citizenship at that time; but also - because of the important contribution they made to English society and English history; because they spent their adult lives in England; because they came from English families. He was certainly "a native of America". ( 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 23:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC))
Reasonable time has passed and no one has commented either way so I'll make the change. ( 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 14:05, 30 April 2016 (UTC))
Also - Britain didn't exist until way after his death so "British" is not applicable (we don't call Roman Emperors "Italian"). The "where he was born" and "his family background" can/should clearly be mentioned in the "Early Life / Life" section. Neither of the recent edits is warranted but the discussion is still open... 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 22:36, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Alexandra Robbins alleges that Yale's headstone was stolen years ago from its proper setting in Wrexham. She further alleges that the tombstone is now displayed in a glass case in a room with purple walls.
![]() | This
edit request to
Elihu Yale has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Elihu Yale’s fondness for slaves may be found in two oil paintings that used to hang at the Yale University: in each of them, a floridly accoutred Yale is flaunting his good fortune with a small dark-skinned boy, a Tamil it would seem, by their side. What makes the image even more distasteful is that the boy wears a collar like a domesticated wild animal, around his neck. (see https://scroll.in/magazine/829298/the-indian-history-of-the-racist-slave-trading-yale-university-founder)It is irresponsible to be whitewashing the history of this slave trader. 2601:584:301:5130:9CE1:952:22D1:F2C6 ( talk) 04:40, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
It currently has the phrase "very much against their will" as a qualification to the children being kidnapped. This is redundant since kidnapping is by definition against one's will. 2600:1700:7D0:97A0:EC72:CA58:675:C41F ( talk) 19:46, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Elihu Yale has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There is no mention of Eli being a SLAVE TRADER!! 2601:152:4501:BFF0:BD0C:F077:C376:226B ( talk) 22:10, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
On 09:17, 9 June 2020 I made these edits by just moving the sections around. I never changed the wording, just the order to make it read better.
I was interested in this article because the man had estates near where I live and it was a piss poor article as it stood because the sections were just facts in no discernible chronological order.
Anyway after just reordering the content and not really changing anything my edits were almost immediately reverted by MaterialScientist (probably one of the most egregious editors on this site). Remember I never changed anything except reorder the sections and the already written paragraphs. But apparently that was not acceptable to this individual. They would rather have a crap article that they protect than a well written one.
Now I see the page has been blocked to people with common sense and fresh perspective and the usual (I will ask somebody else to do the work for me) tags have also been added. It's quite pathetic really. In fact it's more than pathetic, when you take what is written and make it better but then it's reverted by people who have no vested in the content only control. The article is a chronological mess that jumps forward and back in time through just a random list of facts.
And you can thank MaterialScientist for that. Until more people complain about this person, the more crap article like this will continue. 81.159.166.232 ( talk) 13:20, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
The fact that Elihu Yale is a slave trader is sourced in the article and as well as in numerous additional source mentioned here. It is a notable aspect of the man and should not be removed. Additionally, text that people have argued he was an abolitionist have no supporting citations, save one article that describes Elihu Yale as a slave trader but references past versions of the Wikipedia article. This would be a particularly obvious example of citogenesis; the claim that some consider him an abolitionist should not be in the article unless an actual source illustrating this can be found. Editors should not engage in disruptive editing without citing sources. Ummonk ( talk) 03:29, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
The primary texts unambiguously document not only Elihu Yale's involvement in trading, punishing, and executing slaves, but also a specific incident with his slave named Cross (who Yale hanged for riding a horse without permission).
"...some of them have been so fond of that privilege that Mr. Yale hanged his groom (Cross) for riding two or three days' journey off to take the air..."
This incident was also mentioned in the most comprehensive, 20th Century history of Fort Saint George.
The hanging incident was mentioned in Indian press (in perhaps the most prestigious paper in India, _The Hindu_) upon former President Levin's visit in 2005:
The primary texts such as the Records of Fort Saint George do not make a distinction between terms like groom and manservant, and these social positions were synonymous with the word "slave" (which they used in property, trade, and criminal records). The curators note for one of the three portraits of Elihu Yale with a male slave refers exactly to this:
"Nothing is known about the boy on the right, who has just finished pouring Madeira (a sweet, fortified wine) into the glasses on the table. His fine red and grey livery (or uniform) identifies him as a servant, and the silver collar and padlock around his neck indicate that he is enslaved."
It's possible the slave in this painting is Cross, but of course we have no way of knowing.
For more tertiary evidence, it is clear from the primary sources and more modern histories that each representative of the British East India Company had slaves assigned to their manors in "White Town", where the rulers were segregated from "Black Town". I see no reason to give Elihu Yale the benefit of the doubt, especially when his cruelty was notable to even his 18th Century contemporaries.
24.63.168.193 ( talk) 16:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Elihu Yale has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove references to Elihu Yale as a "slave trader."
Elihu Yale was not a slave trader in the way the term is used by the vast majority of people. Footnotes 1 and 7 which purportedly supports the term, calls him a slave trader "[a]lthough he probably did not own any of these people – the majority were held as the property of the East India Company – he certainly profited both directly and indirectly from their sale." I.e., Elihu Yale did not own slaves or personally trade them.
There may be activist or academic reasons to call someone a slave trader who "profited" from the slave trade. But that's not the way it's commonly used in English. It's highly misleading to retain it. Nycbusiness86 ( talk) 17:41, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
RexAntica is insisting - with no discussion or even the courtesy of edit summaries - that the section about Yale's involvement in the slave trade and the naming of Yale University (a) have the unhelpfully vague title of "Controversy" and (b) state that Yale "was never a slave trader, never owned slaves, opposed the slave trade, and imposed several restrictions on it during his tenure." The only source that RexAntica cites for this statement is an article in a student newspaper, an article that also includes the blunt statement that "disagreement over Elihu Yale’s involvement in the slave trade persists."
@ RexAntica: Why are you insisting on this vague title and why are you misrepresenting this issue by pulling out only part of (very weak) source? ElKevbo ( talk) 05:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Why is this not discussed? I’m literally shaking RN!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:587:100:97:AD55:260C:D011:8929 ( talk) 00:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Sounds like you should get some help if you're that upset about something that has no evidence of being true. M4570D0N ( talk) 18:25, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
A quick search for reliable sources proves otherwise.
There's no reason to deny the claim or hint that it's a rumor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vivian James ( talk • contribs) 04:50, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Elihu Yale was indeed a slave trader. Naturally, this will never be mentioned on Wikipedia. We've got to protect Yale's reputation. The admins will ban anyone who tries to add this well documented fact to the article. And in a few months, this section of the talk page will be purged as well, under the guise of "maintenance". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceran ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
In his address to the Yale Class of 2019, Yale Dean Jonathan Holloway stated, referring to Elihu Yale: "there’s no doubting the fact that he participated in the slave trade, profiting from the sale of humans" https://yalealumnimagazine.com/articles/4171-yales-narrative-andyours — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.243.187 ( talk) 16:16, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
I find it interesting and typical that his slaver history has been muted by no more than a self serving article by a student at Yale. It seems that woke only goes so far if it threatens a progressives employment prospects. No point in editing here given the partisanship. 174.89.237.182 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:05, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
I made an attempt to make a longer lead section and summarize the important points of the article. Feedback welcome. 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:11, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
The Family, Ancestry, and "Marriage and Children" sections seem too detailed and not salient. I propose moving this content to a new article "Genealogy of Elihu Yale". 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
While Yale may have been born in Boston, MA, his family moved to Wales when he was two and he spent the rest of his entire childhood and youth growing up in Wales. He spent most of his working life in India and then spent his retirement back in Wales. He never once went to America. I do not know what he claimed to be but most people would not call him an "American". 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 18:58, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
I propose editing the initial paragraph to "...was an English merchant..." And expanding the section about his early life: "Yale was born in Boston, MA, but his parents moved to England when he was two years old." To say he was an American would mean changing many other contemporary entries in Wikipedia - they were born in America (and some lived there for over 20 years) before living in England. They are called English. There was also no "American" country or concept of "American" citizenship at that time; but also - because of the important contribution they made to English society and English history; because they spent their adult lives in England; because they came from English families. He was certainly "a native of America". ( 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 23:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC))
Reasonable time has passed and no one has commented either way so I'll make the change. ( 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 14:05, 30 April 2016 (UTC))
Also - Britain didn't exist until way after his death so "British" is not applicable (we don't call Roman Emperors "Italian"). The "where he was born" and "his family background" can/should clearly be mentioned in the "Early Life / Life" section. Neither of the recent edits is warranted but the discussion is still open... 99.4.120.135 ( talk) 22:36, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Alexandra Robbins alleges that Yale's headstone was stolen years ago from its proper setting in Wrexham. She further alleges that the tombstone is now displayed in a glass case in a room with purple walls.
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Elihu Yale’s fondness for slaves may be found in two oil paintings that used to hang at the Yale University: in each of them, a floridly accoutred Yale is flaunting his good fortune with a small dark-skinned boy, a Tamil it would seem, by their side. What makes the image even more distasteful is that the boy wears a collar like a domesticated wild animal, around his neck. (see https://scroll.in/magazine/829298/the-indian-history-of-the-racist-slave-trading-yale-university-founder)It is irresponsible to be whitewashing the history of this slave trader. 2601:584:301:5130:9CE1:952:22D1:F2C6 ( talk) 04:40, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
It currently has the phrase "very much against their will" as a qualification to the children being kidnapped. This is redundant since kidnapping is by definition against one's will. 2600:1700:7D0:97A0:EC72:CA58:675:C41F ( talk) 19:46, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
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There is no mention of Eli being a SLAVE TRADER!! 2601:152:4501:BFF0:BD0C:F077:C376:226B ( talk) 22:10, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
On 09:17, 9 June 2020 I made these edits by just moving the sections around. I never changed the wording, just the order to make it read better.
I was interested in this article because the man had estates near where I live and it was a piss poor article as it stood because the sections were just facts in no discernible chronological order.
Anyway after just reordering the content and not really changing anything my edits were almost immediately reverted by MaterialScientist (probably one of the most egregious editors on this site). Remember I never changed anything except reorder the sections and the already written paragraphs. But apparently that was not acceptable to this individual. They would rather have a crap article that they protect than a well written one.
Now I see the page has been blocked to people with common sense and fresh perspective and the usual (I will ask somebody else to do the work for me) tags have also been added. It's quite pathetic really. In fact it's more than pathetic, when you take what is written and make it better but then it's reverted by people who have no vested in the content only control. The article is a chronological mess that jumps forward and back in time through just a random list of facts.
And you can thank MaterialScientist for that. Until more people complain about this person, the more crap article like this will continue. 81.159.166.232 ( talk) 13:20, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
The primary texts unambiguously document not only Elihu Yale's involvement in trading, punishing, and executing slaves, but also a specific incident with his slave named Cross (who Yale hanged for riding a horse without permission).
"...some of them have been so fond of that privilege that Mr. Yale hanged his groom (Cross) for riding two or three days' journey off to take the air..."
This incident was also mentioned in the most comprehensive, 20th Century history of Fort Saint George.
The hanging incident was mentioned in Indian press (in perhaps the most prestigious paper in India, _The Hindu_) upon former President Levin's visit in 2005:
The primary texts such as the Records of Fort Saint George do not make a distinction between terms like groom and manservant, and these social positions were synonymous with the word "slave" (which they used in property, trade, and criminal records). The curators note for one of the three portraits of Elihu Yale with a male slave refers exactly to this:
"Nothing is known about the boy on the right, who has just finished pouring Madeira (a sweet, fortified wine) into the glasses on the table. His fine red and grey livery (or uniform) identifies him as a servant, and the silver collar and padlock around his neck indicate that he is enslaved."
It's possible the slave in this painting is Cross, but of course we have no way of knowing.
For more tertiary evidence, it is clear from the primary sources and more modern histories that each representative of the British East India Company had slaves assigned to their manors in "White Town", where the rulers were segregated from "Black Town". I see no reason to give Elihu Yale the benefit of the doubt, especially when his cruelty was notable to even his 18th Century contemporaries.
24.63.168.193 ( talk) 16:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
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Remove references to Elihu Yale as a "slave trader."
Elihu Yale was not a slave trader in the way the term is used by the vast majority of people. Footnotes 1 and 7 which purportedly supports the term, calls him a slave trader "[a]lthough he probably did not own any of these people – the majority were held as the property of the East India Company – he certainly profited both directly and indirectly from their sale." I.e., Elihu Yale did not own slaves or personally trade them.
There may be activist or academic reasons to call someone a slave trader who "profited" from the slave trade. But that's not the way it's commonly used in English. It's highly misleading to retain it. Nycbusiness86 ( talk) 17:41, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
RexAntica is insisting - with no discussion or even the courtesy of edit summaries - that the section about Yale's involvement in the slave trade and the naming of Yale University (a) have the unhelpfully vague title of "Controversy" and (b) state that Yale "was never a slave trader, never owned slaves, opposed the slave trade, and imposed several restrictions on it during his tenure." The only source that RexAntica cites for this statement is an article in a student newspaper, an article that also includes the blunt statement that "disagreement over Elihu Yale’s involvement in the slave trade persists."
@ RexAntica: Why are you insisting on this vague title and why are you misrepresenting this issue by pulling out only part of (very weak) source? ElKevbo ( talk) 05:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Why is this not discussed? I’m literally shaking RN!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:587:100:97:AD55:260C:D011:8929 ( talk) 00:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Sounds like you should get some help if you're that upset about something that has no evidence of being true. M4570D0N ( talk) 18:25, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
A quick search for reliable sources proves otherwise.
There's no reason to deny the claim or hint that it's a rumor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vivian James ( talk • contribs) 04:50, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Elihu Yale was indeed a slave trader. Naturally, this will never be mentioned on Wikipedia. We've got to protect Yale's reputation. The admins will ban anyone who tries to add this well documented fact to the article. And in a few months, this section of the talk page will be purged as well, under the guise of "maintenance". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceran ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
In his address to the Yale Class of 2019, Yale Dean Jonathan Holloway stated, referring to Elihu Yale: "there’s no doubting the fact that he participated in the slave trade, profiting from the sale of humans" https://yalealumnimagazine.com/articles/4171-yales-narrative-andyours — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.243.187 ( talk) 16:16, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
I find it interesting and typical that his slaver history has been muted by no more than a self serving article by a student at Yale. It seems that woke only goes so far if it threatens a progressives employment prospects. No point in editing here given the partisanship. 174.89.237.182 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:05, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
I made an attempt to make a longer lead section and summarize the important points of the article. Feedback welcome. 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:11, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
The Family, Ancestry, and "Marriage and Children" sections seem too detailed and not salient. I propose moving this content to a new article "Genealogy of Elihu Yale". 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC)