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What is an "AV- word order in coordinated clauses with deleted subjects"? I only associate AV with agent-verb, which doesn't seem to make much sense in this context. Pittmirg 09:40, 18 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pittmirg ( talk • contribs)
Has ti anything to do with elven mythology in the Scandinavian lands? I guess it does, better give an etymology... Undead Herle King ( talk) 05:38, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
I think claiming the Dalecarlian is a separate language from Swedish is not NPOV. I can find no professional linguist asserting this. -- Gabbe 17:42, Jun 19, 2004 (UTC)
"New" diphtongs? Aren't the diphtongs old diphtongs, if they were present in Old Norse?
As far as I know, all diphtongs in Älvdalsmål are secondary. But in the dialects spoken just west of Älvdalen parish (Transtrand and Lima dialects), the Old Norse diphtongs are indeed preserved.
Jens Persson jepe2503 AT hotmail DOT com (13 Jan 2006)
Is this statement really correct?
When I read information from Nordic language institute in Uppsala I found out that they are quite different. // Rogper 07:22, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I have looked at learning Dalecarlian and it is very different from Norwegian (which I can speak OK), Swedish and Danish. It retains alot of features that I know none of them do and only Jamska, Faroese and Icelandic still have (I think might Gotish too?). I suspect to Swedish-only speakers it probably sounds rather archaic.-- 172.208.177.147 05:29, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Obviously, it seems like several people have no idea about what Älvdalsmål is. Claiming that it is as close to Standard Swedish as British English is to American English and claiming that it is spoken in Värmland (see below) is simply just a proof that some people should not "contribute" to Wiki. Please, if one does not have even the most basic knowledge about the subject, then do not add to the article in question! personally I have studied Älvdalsmål for five years or so quite thoroughly (on non-scholar level), and it is clear that most contributors here have not. Just to mention one name which is spreading his own biased personal views, often close to being disparaging and insulting to people in question, on the topics of several (dialect related) articles, I mention Peter Isotalo.
Jens Persson jepe2503 AT hotmail DOT com (13 Jan 2006)
Exactly where in Värmland is Älvdalsmål spoken? This information puzzles me since the distance between the Älvdalen parish and the border to Värmland is considerable. Did a group of Älvdalen people some time in history migrate to Värmland to form an Älvdalsmål speaking community? Until someone will confirm that Älvdalsmål is spoken in Värmland, I'll remove the claim. (I didn't think I could avoid the word moron describing the one who has claim the statement, but I could.)
Jens Persson jepe2503 AT hotmail DOT com (13 Jan 2006)
Mr Isotalo, you did the following edit:
where you e.g. changed the statement
into
i.e., the original (implicitly) stated fact that Östen Dahl is a member of Råðdjärum is changed into a (implicit) statement that Östen Dahl is not a member of the mentioned group. If you check the reference http://www.alvdalen.se/alvdalska/ (given in the article) you'll see the following statement:
i.e., Östen Dahl is a member of Råðdjärum! This was the reference I used when originally stating that he's a member of the group. Now, if you condiser your given information to be more reliable than mine, please cite your sources. Your statements need to be verifiable or we can't possible know if you're being neutral or not.
Jens Persson ( 130.242.128.119 21:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC))
Please note that contributions to this article on 31 December 2006 and 1 January 2007 (notably the move from Älvdalsmål to Elfdalian) were made by a friend who is interested in Elfdalian. Since I was logged in he happened to write under my username. I can't claim any responsability for changes made nor should I be credited for all his fine work. Likewise, I won't enter into any discussion about these specific changes. -- Sasper 16:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Currently, the separate classification of "Dalecarlian" redirects here and I can't for the live of me understand exactly what other dialects are supposed to be included in this group. It seems that they both are just pretty different terms for the same thing.
I'm also a tad skeptical to the claim that the dialect is the "best preserved". My experience is that linguists tend to consider these kinds of statements to be over-simplification as all languages experience change one way or the other. The ever-present tendency for younger speakers to differ their speech from their elders, for example, can hardly be absent in Dalarna. So which of the sources actually makes this claim? Could we have a citation either here or in the article?
Peter Isotalo 13:48, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
You are absolutely right, Jens. I am trying to make a little bit order in the confusion between Dalecarlian and Elfdalian. I hope it is somewhat clearer by now.
There are two letters - one with A plus ogonek and one with Y - that have boxes next to them. What are these letters supposed to be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.201.179 ( talk) 01:12, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
The map provided displays an area where elfdalian is not spoken. The map displays an area where a mixed Swedish-Norwegian dialect is spoken, the so called Särna-Idre dialect. Instead the link to Östen Dahl provides a map where three groups of Dalecarlian are spoken (the difference between Elfdalian and Dalecarlian not clear to me), which is south east of the Särna-Idre area. Said: Rursus ☻ 07:52, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
What about the language code? Ethnologue gives dlc as the iso 639-3 code ( here) and links to SIL, but SIL does not recognize that code. Is it newly introduced by Ethnologue, or has it been removed from ISO 639-3? Mike ( talk) 16:46, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
On Jan 20, 2013 the user Kwamikagami "moved page Elfdalian language to Elfdalian dialect", but I see no recent discussion about the subject, and I cannot use "undo" on the History page. Is it "fair use" to make such a major page-move like this? 130.235.133.172 ( talk) 21:04, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
-The grammar section needs some wikilinks. In Writing systems, the relation between Germanic runes, Dalecarlian alphabet, and Elfdalian runes is not clear. "Råðdjärum's Orthography" is unclearly written, and its relation to the aforementioned systems is not spelled out. I have no doubt that a lot of the External links are helpful--but they need to be brought in as references.
Hafspajen (
talk)
09:22, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
I tried to bring some order to the "context" section:
- I changed the title of the section from "Context" into "Classification".
- I try to clarify the distinctions between Elfdalian and Dalecarlian, moving larger passages about Dalecarlian to the Dalecarlian dialects article.
- I added a date to the age of Dalecarlian according to Levander 1925, adding a reference.
The result of the proposal was moved. No prejudice against a new RM for Elfdalian language. -- BDD ( talk) 22:00, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Elfdalian dialect → Elfdalian – There is currently no consensus on whether Elfdalian should be classified as a language or a dialect of Swedish. I suggest that this page is changed back to the title "Elfdalian", since the question of classification is discussed (with references) in the text. Felix ahlner ( talk) 21:19, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
What is an "AV- word order in coordinated clauses with deleted subjects"? I only associate AV with agent-verb, which doesn't seem to make much sense in this context. Pittmirg 09:40, 18 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pittmirg ( talk • contribs)
Has ti anything to do with elven mythology in the Scandinavian lands? I guess it does, better give an etymology... Undead Herle King ( talk) 05:38, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
I think claiming the Dalecarlian is a separate language from Swedish is not NPOV. I can find no professional linguist asserting this. -- Gabbe 17:42, Jun 19, 2004 (UTC)
"New" diphtongs? Aren't the diphtongs old diphtongs, if they were present in Old Norse?
As far as I know, all diphtongs in Älvdalsmål are secondary. But in the dialects spoken just west of Älvdalen parish (Transtrand and Lima dialects), the Old Norse diphtongs are indeed preserved.
Jens Persson jepe2503 AT hotmail DOT com (13 Jan 2006)
Is this statement really correct?
When I read information from Nordic language institute in Uppsala I found out that they are quite different. // Rogper 07:22, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I have looked at learning Dalecarlian and it is very different from Norwegian (which I can speak OK), Swedish and Danish. It retains alot of features that I know none of them do and only Jamska, Faroese and Icelandic still have (I think might Gotish too?). I suspect to Swedish-only speakers it probably sounds rather archaic.-- 172.208.177.147 05:29, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Obviously, it seems like several people have no idea about what Älvdalsmål is. Claiming that it is as close to Standard Swedish as British English is to American English and claiming that it is spoken in Värmland (see below) is simply just a proof that some people should not "contribute" to Wiki. Please, if one does not have even the most basic knowledge about the subject, then do not add to the article in question! personally I have studied Älvdalsmål for five years or so quite thoroughly (on non-scholar level), and it is clear that most contributors here have not. Just to mention one name which is spreading his own biased personal views, often close to being disparaging and insulting to people in question, on the topics of several (dialect related) articles, I mention Peter Isotalo.
Jens Persson jepe2503 AT hotmail DOT com (13 Jan 2006)
Exactly where in Värmland is Älvdalsmål spoken? This information puzzles me since the distance between the Älvdalen parish and the border to Värmland is considerable. Did a group of Älvdalen people some time in history migrate to Värmland to form an Älvdalsmål speaking community? Until someone will confirm that Älvdalsmål is spoken in Värmland, I'll remove the claim. (I didn't think I could avoid the word moron describing the one who has claim the statement, but I could.)
Jens Persson jepe2503 AT hotmail DOT com (13 Jan 2006)
Mr Isotalo, you did the following edit:
where you e.g. changed the statement
into
i.e., the original (implicitly) stated fact that Östen Dahl is a member of Råðdjärum is changed into a (implicit) statement that Östen Dahl is not a member of the mentioned group. If you check the reference http://www.alvdalen.se/alvdalska/ (given in the article) you'll see the following statement:
i.e., Östen Dahl is a member of Råðdjärum! This was the reference I used when originally stating that he's a member of the group. Now, if you condiser your given information to be more reliable than mine, please cite your sources. Your statements need to be verifiable or we can't possible know if you're being neutral or not.
Jens Persson ( 130.242.128.119 21:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC))
Please note that contributions to this article on 31 December 2006 and 1 January 2007 (notably the move from Älvdalsmål to Elfdalian) were made by a friend who is interested in Elfdalian. Since I was logged in he happened to write under my username. I can't claim any responsability for changes made nor should I be credited for all his fine work. Likewise, I won't enter into any discussion about these specific changes. -- Sasper 16:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Currently, the separate classification of "Dalecarlian" redirects here and I can't for the live of me understand exactly what other dialects are supposed to be included in this group. It seems that they both are just pretty different terms for the same thing.
I'm also a tad skeptical to the claim that the dialect is the "best preserved". My experience is that linguists tend to consider these kinds of statements to be over-simplification as all languages experience change one way or the other. The ever-present tendency for younger speakers to differ their speech from their elders, for example, can hardly be absent in Dalarna. So which of the sources actually makes this claim? Could we have a citation either here or in the article?
Peter Isotalo 13:48, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
You are absolutely right, Jens. I am trying to make a little bit order in the confusion between Dalecarlian and Elfdalian. I hope it is somewhat clearer by now.
There are two letters - one with A plus ogonek and one with Y - that have boxes next to them. What are these letters supposed to be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.201.179 ( talk) 01:12, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
The map provided displays an area where elfdalian is not spoken. The map displays an area where a mixed Swedish-Norwegian dialect is spoken, the so called Särna-Idre dialect. Instead the link to Östen Dahl provides a map where three groups of Dalecarlian are spoken (the difference between Elfdalian and Dalecarlian not clear to me), which is south east of the Särna-Idre area. Said: Rursus ☻ 07:52, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
What about the language code? Ethnologue gives dlc as the iso 639-3 code ( here) and links to SIL, but SIL does not recognize that code. Is it newly introduced by Ethnologue, or has it been removed from ISO 639-3? Mike ( talk) 16:46, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
On Jan 20, 2013 the user Kwamikagami "moved page Elfdalian language to Elfdalian dialect", but I see no recent discussion about the subject, and I cannot use "undo" on the History page. Is it "fair use" to make such a major page-move like this? 130.235.133.172 ( talk) 21:04, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
-The grammar section needs some wikilinks. In Writing systems, the relation between Germanic runes, Dalecarlian alphabet, and Elfdalian runes is not clear. "Råðdjärum's Orthography" is unclearly written, and its relation to the aforementioned systems is not spelled out. I have no doubt that a lot of the External links are helpful--but they need to be brought in as references.
Hafspajen (
talk)
09:22, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
I tried to bring some order to the "context" section:
- I changed the title of the section from "Context" into "Classification".
- I try to clarify the distinctions between Elfdalian and Dalecarlian, moving larger passages about Dalecarlian to the Dalecarlian dialects article.
- I added a date to the age of Dalecarlian according to Levander 1925, adding a reference.
The result of the proposal was moved. No prejudice against a new RM for Elfdalian language. -- BDD ( talk) 22:00, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Elfdalian dialect → Elfdalian – There is currently no consensus on whether Elfdalian should be classified as a language or a dialect of Swedish. I suggest that this page is changed back to the title "Elfdalian", since the question of classification is discussed (with references) in the text. Felix ahlner ( talk) 21:19, 24 April 2013 (UTC)