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Added non-proprietary product specifications per editor talk. More specs are in the process of review/approval for public dissemination. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.51.126.206 ( talk) 18:06, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
The company Web site is uninformative. A patent number would be very helpful. How many lumens/watt? How does it work? Cross section thorugh a lamp would be very interesting. It sounds like a variation on a vacuum fluorescent display, but they must do something special with the phosphors to get competitive efficiency at what must be fairly low operating voltage (say, around 300 V for a voltage doubler power supply operating off a 120 VAC line). Or they've got a flyback converter in the bulb base and are shooting out electrons at 15 kV. The biggest single loss in a modern fluorescent lamp is the conversion from short-wavelength UV to visible light, and nothing short of the legendary two-photon phosphor is going to change that. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 19:27, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Could we please get some Wikipedia:Reliable sources for information? This specifically excludes press releases handed out by the company. No, citing that press release on some McNews web site doesn't make it reliable. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 16:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure I would characterize Popular Science as a "McNews web site." Their coverage was purely editorial, not generated from a press release. Please understand that much of the primary-source scientific background you're requesting is proprietary to the company that developed the technology. Also, I thought secondary sources were preferred by Wikipedia as they are more credible than primary sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prguy72 ( talk • contribs) 18:02, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Still no released product data but the company's web site says [2] 600 lumens with 19.5 watts input; 31 lumens/watt. That wouldn't make the Energy Star limits for a CFL with comparable output. It's around half the efficacy of Energy Star CFLs. And it's been over a year and still no bulbs on shelves? What is the hold-up, that's the real story which the journaists aren't finding in the company press releases. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 18:38, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
As you probably know, the DoE's Energy Star program is fraught with political influence and general ignorance, and has been the subject of much disagreement among manufacturers from a variety of industries - not just lighting. I worked in the household appliance industry in the 2000s and our product developers were always complaining about the Energy Star certification process and its political overtones.
Over the years, the DoE has trumpeted solid-state lighting with LED technology as the "heir apparent" to the incandescent light bulb and has subsidized the development of LED lighting by U.S. manufacturers to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. ESL inventors don't claim the technology is more energy efficient than CFLs (the power factor issue notwithstanding), but the real differentiation comes with the quality of light output (which, of course, is subjective) and the fact that ESL lamps are mercury-free. As a long-term, sustainable, low-cost alternative to incandescent lamps, ESL technology has a place in the market even without Energy Star certification.
Regarding the long go-to-market timeline, I can't answer that definitively. While I do represent the company that makes these bulbs, I'm (obviously) not an electrical engineer, and I'm not paid to edit these articles. So I hope you agree there is no COI here. But I do think the technology is worthy of mention in relevant articles, simply because it's a unique solution to the ongoing CFL vs. incandescent debate and a great example of U.S. scientific ingenuity. Just when we thought CRT televisions were headed to the technology graveyard, we figure out a way to make it useful again. Prguy72 ( talk) 19:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
OK I am a little confused - WP:RS suggests that news reporting from a reliable news organization is usually considered a reliable source. Yet because it contains information from a press release (properly attributed by the author, I might add) it is suddenly unreliable? Since Wikipedia seems to frown on tertiary or primary sources for attribution, I feel like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't with this one. Prguy72 ( talk) 22:39, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
-- Wtshymanski ( talk) 22:53, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
I assure you this is for real - I have two bulbs (slated for retail - not prototypes) sitting on my desk right now, and one more (prototype) in a recessed can in my media room at home. And it's everything the company says it is - great light quality and much cheaper than LED. I completely understand the skepticism, and the need to be neutral. But this technology is for real. Will it be a game-changer? Who knows. Investors certainly hope so. But I have no dog in this fight. I just want Wiki users to know the tech is real and ready for market, and an alternative to energy-efficient bulbs available today. Prguy72 ( talk) 23:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Which acceleration voltage does the lamp use, and does it generate x-rays? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.108.248.89 ( talk) 15:51, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Added non-proprietary product specifications per editor talk. More specs are in the process of review/approval for public dissemination. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.51.126.206 ( talk) 18:06, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
The company Web site is uninformative. A patent number would be very helpful. How many lumens/watt? How does it work? Cross section thorugh a lamp would be very interesting. It sounds like a variation on a vacuum fluorescent display, but they must do something special with the phosphors to get competitive efficiency at what must be fairly low operating voltage (say, around 300 V for a voltage doubler power supply operating off a 120 VAC line). Or they've got a flyback converter in the bulb base and are shooting out electrons at 15 kV. The biggest single loss in a modern fluorescent lamp is the conversion from short-wavelength UV to visible light, and nothing short of the legendary two-photon phosphor is going to change that. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 19:27, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Could we please get some Wikipedia:Reliable sources for information? This specifically excludes press releases handed out by the company. No, citing that press release on some McNews web site doesn't make it reliable. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 16:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure I would characterize Popular Science as a "McNews web site." Their coverage was purely editorial, not generated from a press release. Please understand that much of the primary-source scientific background you're requesting is proprietary to the company that developed the technology. Also, I thought secondary sources were preferred by Wikipedia as they are more credible than primary sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prguy72 ( talk • contribs) 18:02, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Still no released product data but the company's web site says [2] 600 lumens with 19.5 watts input; 31 lumens/watt. That wouldn't make the Energy Star limits for a CFL with comparable output. It's around half the efficacy of Energy Star CFLs. And it's been over a year and still no bulbs on shelves? What is the hold-up, that's the real story which the journaists aren't finding in the company press releases. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 18:38, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
As you probably know, the DoE's Energy Star program is fraught with political influence and general ignorance, and has been the subject of much disagreement among manufacturers from a variety of industries - not just lighting. I worked in the household appliance industry in the 2000s and our product developers were always complaining about the Energy Star certification process and its political overtones.
Over the years, the DoE has trumpeted solid-state lighting with LED technology as the "heir apparent" to the incandescent light bulb and has subsidized the development of LED lighting by U.S. manufacturers to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. ESL inventors don't claim the technology is more energy efficient than CFLs (the power factor issue notwithstanding), but the real differentiation comes with the quality of light output (which, of course, is subjective) and the fact that ESL lamps are mercury-free. As a long-term, sustainable, low-cost alternative to incandescent lamps, ESL technology has a place in the market even without Energy Star certification.
Regarding the long go-to-market timeline, I can't answer that definitively. While I do represent the company that makes these bulbs, I'm (obviously) not an electrical engineer, and I'm not paid to edit these articles. So I hope you agree there is no COI here. But I do think the technology is worthy of mention in relevant articles, simply because it's a unique solution to the ongoing CFL vs. incandescent debate and a great example of U.S. scientific ingenuity. Just when we thought CRT televisions were headed to the technology graveyard, we figure out a way to make it useful again. Prguy72 ( talk) 19:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
OK I am a little confused - WP:RS suggests that news reporting from a reliable news organization is usually considered a reliable source. Yet because it contains information from a press release (properly attributed by the author, I might add) it is suddenly unreliable? Since Wikipedia seems to frown on tertiary or primary sources for attribution, I feel like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't with this one. Prguy72 ( talk) 22:39, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
-- Wtshymanski ( talk) 22:53, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
I assure you this is for real - I have two bulbs (slated for retail - not prototypes) sitting on my desk right now, and one more (prototype) in a recessed can in my media room at home. And it's everything the company says it is - great light quality and much cheaper than LED. I completely understand the skepticism, and the need to be neutral. But this technology is for real. Will it be a game-changer? Who knows. Investors certainly hope so. But I have no dog in this fight. I just want Wiki users to know the tech is real and ready for market, and an alternative to energy-efficient bulbs available today. Prguy72 ( talk) 23:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Which acceleration voltage does the lamp use, and does it generate x-rays? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.108.248.89 ( talk) 15:51, 1 February 2011 (UTC)