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Why has it decreased in height by 25 feet since the 1950s? -- Mugsywwiii ( talk) 22:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Mugsywwiii The tree did not have enough water to support its full height so the top died and was cut off. Now it is being watered and no coal-fired steam engines run next to it. It is healthier, they say. The article seems to be a bit fuller since 2008. - - Prairieplant ( talk) 04:34, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
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For a while the article said that the tree originally had three trunks. None of the reliable sources agree. The cited source is this picture, which shows only two trunks. This bit of spurious information was added in Special:Diff/746242738. Just thought I should note this here. Ovinus ( talk) 02:54, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: David Eppstein ( talk · contribs) 08:52, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
Reviewing. Some preliminary notes, for the first part of the article:
Mission Santa Clara de Asís should be linked and properly accented.
"Most evidence suggests that El Palo Alto is an impostor, and not the actual tree" ... "The true El Palo Alto likely became widely known": confusing. If it's an imposter, is the "true El Palo Alto" the still-standing tree currently known as El Palo Alto? Alternatively, if the name "El Palo Alto" only ever referred to the current tree, is it accurate to call it an "imposter" for another tree that was misidentified as being the same tree? It is not the tree that is doing anything false; it is the local tradition that may well be mistaken.
"the tree may have been one further downstream": since there are at least two trees in question, this is somewhat ambiguous. The tree of Portola's camp? The tree in Father Palou's diary? The tree of Font's map?
"by the 1850s with the establishment of El Camino Real": ?? The road between Mission Santa Clara and Mission San Francisco presumably came into existence sometime around the late 1770s when the two missions were founded. The commemorative route of this road, under the El Camino Real name, was established in 1902 after efforts beginning in 1892. It appears that the intended meaning was that the tree became widely known by the 1850s because of its proximity to a road that was already well-used at the time, but this needs rewording because of the false implication that the 1850s were a significant date in the history of the road itself.
"passed somewhat close to El Palo Alto": why the past tense? The road with that name still runs close to the tree.
"The tree was originally known as the Palos Colorados": When and by whom? Does "palo" really mean tree in this context? (I have only ever seen "El Palo Alto" translated as "the big stick".) And does "colorado" really mean "red"? (My impression was that the literal translation is "colored" although it often has a connotation of the color being red.)
They first referred to it as Palos Colorados, which loosely translates to “red trees,” because of the redwood’s red bark, where "they" is the Spanish travelers, but seeing as the tree's history is convoluted I wasn't comfortable saying it was indeed the Spanish explorers themselves. Font's diary doesn't seem to use the term. But I have hedged the translation a bit per the source.
"Leland Stanford—who would co-found Stanford University" see WP:INTOTHEWOULDS.
"He named his estate ... a stable for training horses": is that what he named it? Or is that what he originally used it for? Also, this is the metonymous use of "stable" to mean a ranch for training horses, not the literal use of "stable" to mean a building for housing the horses that are being trained, right? Because an estate is not a building.
"planned to establish a university in his honor on farm land": why so indirect? They did establish the university. Also, "farm land" (where one produces crops or raises animals for food) or land for training horses? They are not the same thing.
"the nearby village": have we heard about the existence of a nearby village anywhere earlier in the article?
"centuries ago": maybe "centuries earlier"? The time at which the artist drew the seal is not the present day. Also, I imagine that not everyone reads Latin, so you might want to explain the meaning of "semper virens" and its connection to the scientific name of the tree. It might also make sense to mention that the motto has since been replaced, and that several depictions of the tree have been used; the official version appears to be the one at https://identity.stanford.edu/visual-identity/stanford-logos/university-seal/ The source you used for this says that the first artist was Arthur Bridgman Clark; that might also be worth mentioning.
"somewhere between 1875 and 1882": a little colloquial in wording. "Somewhere" is not really the best word for a time range, and I think just "between 1875 and 1882" would work as well. But this date is contradicted by the next paragraph's estimate of 1885, so maybe it shouldn't be stated so definitively.
"It is designated California Historical Landmark No. 2": the photos I can find online for the landmark plaque show it as being for "Portola Journey's End", not for the tree itself. And the official state site for the landmark [1] has the same title, and lists it as being in Menlo Park, not Palo Alto (although the tree itself is certainly in Palo Alto). (Same goes for the coverage of this material in the "Legacy" section.)
"Peirce planted": Pierce.
Now El Palo Alto Park: maybe say how large the park is and what its amenities are (I think a footpath and footbridge over the creek).
"In 1876 the plot containing El Palo Alto was purchased by Leland Stanford": Now I am wondering: what was the provenance of the plot? Who owned it before the Stanfords? Shouldn't we say something here about the history of Rancho San Francisquito?
Leland Stanford ... purchased the land where the tree stood in 1876 for his family home and his Palo Alto stock farm). Its remaining uses seem either sufficiently modern or backed up by other sources, so that's good. Ovinus ( talk) 05:40, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
The article talks about construction aimed at saving the tree being directed by Jane Stanford in 1904 and by Southern Pacific in 1909. Does that suggest that there was a transfer of land ownership between those dates? If not when did Southern Pacific come to take over the land?
"The Native Sons of the Golden West, an organization dedicated to the preservation of California landmarks, took stewardship of the tree in 1920.[44] The city leased the surrounding land from Southern Pacific": In contrast, [3] this official source claims that the Sons of the Golden West came to own the land, and deeded it to the City of Palo Alto in the 1960s.
— David Eppstein ( talk) 20:57, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
"15 miles to the southeast", "about a half-mile south", "about 8,000 acres", "25-foot-high", "10 feet above the tree": use {{ convert}} per MOS:CONVERSIONS. I think that's more or less it for WP:GACR #1.
Earwig found no significant copying (it showed 30% similarity to http://www.calhsr.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/The-El-Palo-Alto-Redwood-Heritage-Tree-1.pdf but none of the hits looked like inappropriately copied text). All text is footnoted (except for the summary of later material in the lead).
Reference formatting:
|hdl=2027/mdp.39015006075587
Offline and paywalled sources taken AGF. Checking the rest:
Stopping for now, more later. — David Eppstein ( talk) 03:02, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
More source analysis, numbering now based on updated version of article:
On to the other GA criteria next... — David Eppstein ( talk) 01:18, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
That leaves only criterion 6, on the relevance, captioning, and licensing of the images.
— David Eppstein ( talk) 01:01, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
All issues have been addressed, so I will pass the article. — David Eppstein ( talk) 06:56, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
97198 (
talk)
03:04, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Ovinus ( talk). Self-nominated at 08:47, 31 December 2022 (UTC).
The entry states "The section from San Francisco to "Big Tree Station" (now Palo Alto Station), about a half-mile (0.8 km) south of El Palo Alto, was inaugurated on October 7 that year [1863]." Is Big Tree Station actually located where the Palo Alto Station is now? The reference "A bit of History" (1900) has "To Big Tree Station on the San Francisquito Creek" However the Palo Alto Centennial history (page 63) talks about a proposed new station for University Park (now downtown Palo Alto) that Leland Stanford and Hopkins are discussing https://paloaltocitylibrary.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16815coll3/id/135/rec/1 (page 20 of the same work which is cited as supporting that part of this entry mentions Mayfield station not Big Tree Station). The stations at least then were Menlo Park then Mayfield (the current California Avenue station in Palo Alto). This is also the sequence in the Daily Alta California, Volume 15, Number 4981, 18 October 1863 ( https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=DAC18631018.2.3&e=-------en--20--1--txt-txIN--------) Erp ( talk) 00:56, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
BTW the 1890 map shows Rancho Rinconada del Arroyo de San Francisquito and Rancho San Francisquito and the corner where El Palo Alto is (though the tree is not shown explicitly). I annotated with a red arrow though that isn't ideal. Erp ( talk) 01:33, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | El Palo Alto has been listed as one of the
Geography and places good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: December 31, 2022. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from El Palo Alto appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 16 January 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
Why has it decreased in height by 25 feet since the 1950s? -- Mugsywwiii ( talk) 22:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Mugsywwiii The tree did not have enough water to support its full height so the top died and was cut off. Now it is being watered and no coal-fired steam engines run next to it. It is healthier, they say. The article seems to be a bit fuller since 2008. - - Prairieplant ( talk) 04:34, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on El Palo Alto. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:46, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
For a while the article said that the tree originally had three trunks. None of the reliable sources agree. The cited source is this picture, which shows only two trunks. This bit of spurious information was added in Special:Diff/746242738. Just thought I should note this here. Ovinus ( talk) 02:54, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: David Eppstein ( talk · contribs) 08:52, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
Reviewing. Some preliminary notes, for the first part of the article:
Mission Santa Clara de Asís should be linked and properly accented.
"Most evidence suggests that El Palo Alto is an impostor, and not the actual tree" ... "The true El Palo Alto likely became widely known": confusing. If it's an imposter, is the "true El Palo Alto" the still-standing tree currently known as El Palo Alto? Alternatively, if the name "El Palo Alto" only ever referred to the current tree, is it accurate to call it an "imposter" for another tree that was misidentified as being the same tree? It is not the tree that is doing anything false; it is the local tradition that may well be mistaken.
"the tree may have been one further downstream": since there are at least two trees in question, this is somewhat ambiguous. The tree of Portola's camp? The tree in Father Palou's diary? The tree of Font's map?
"by the 1850s with the establishment of El Camino Real": ?? The road between Mission Santa Clara and Mission San Francisco presumably came into existence sometime around the late 1770s when the two missions were founded. The commemorative route of this road, under the El Camino Real name, was established in 1902 after efforts beginning in 1892. It appears that the intended meaning was that the tree became widely known by the 1850s because of its proximity to a road that was already well-used at the time, but this needs rewording because of the false implication that the 1850s were a significant date in the history of the road itself.
"passed somewhat close to El Palo Alto": why the past tense? The road with that name still runs close to the tree.
"The tree was originally known as the Palos Colorados": When and by whom? Does "palo" really mean tree in this context? (I have only ever seen "El Palo Alto" translated as "the big stick".) And does "colorado" really mean "red"? (My impression was that the literal translation is "colored" although it often has a connotation of the color being red.)
They first referred to it as Palos Colorados, which loosely translates to “red trees,” because of the redwood’s red bark, where "they" is the Spanish travelers, but seeing as the tree's history is convoluted I wasn't comfortable saying it was indeed the Spanish explorers themselves. Font's diary doesn't seem to use the term. But I have hedged the translation a bit per the source.
"Leland Stanford—who would co-found Stanford University" see WP:INTOTHEWOULDS.
"He named his estate ... a stable for training horses": is that what he named it? Or is that what he originally used it for? Also, this is the metonymous use of "stable" to mean a ranch for training horses, not the literal use of "stable" to mean a building for housing the horses that are being trained, right? Because an estate is not a building.
"planned to establish a university in his honor on farm land": why so indirect? They did establish the university. Also, "farm land" (where one produces crops or raises animals for food) or land for training horses? They are not the same thing.
"the nearby village": have we heard about the existence of a nearby village anywhere earlier in the article?
"centuries ago": maybe "centuries earlier"? The time at which the artist drew the seal is not the present day. Also, I imagine that not everyone reads Latin, so you might want to explain the meaning of "semper virens" and its connection to the scientific name of the tree. It might also make sense to mention that the motto has since been replaced, and that several depictions of the tree have been used; the official version appears to be the one at https://identity.stanford.edu/visual-identity/stanford-logos/university-seal/ The source you used for this says that the first artist was Arthur Bridgman Clark; that might also be worth mentioning.
"somewhere between 1875 and 1882": a little colloquial in wording. "Somewhere" is not really the best word for a time range, and I think just "between 1875 and 1882" would work as well. But this date is contradicted by the next paragraph's estimate of 1885, so maybe it shouldn't be stated so definitively.
"It is designated California Historical Landmark No. 2": the photos I can find online for the landmark plaque show it as being for "Portola Journey's End", not for the tree itself. And the official state site for the landmark [1] has the same title, and lists it as being in Menlo Park, not Palo Alto (although the tree itself is certainly in Palo Alto). (Same goes for the coverage of this material in the "Legacy" section.)
"Peirce planted": Pierce.
Now El Palo Alto Park: maybe say how large the park is and what its amenities are (I think a footpath and footbridge over the creek).
"In 1876 the plot containing El Palo Alto was purchased by Leland Stanford": Now I am wondering: what was the provenance of the plot? Who owned it before the Stanfords? Shouldn't we say something here about the history of Rancho San Francisquito?
Leland Stanford ... purchased the land where the tree stood in 1876 for his family home and his Palo Alto stock farm). Its remaining uses seem either sufficiently modern or backed up by other sources, so that's good. Ovinus ( talk) 05:40, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
The article talks about construction aimed at saving the tree being directed by Jane Stanford in 1904 and by Southern Pacific in 1909. Does that suggest that there was a transfer of land ownership between those dates? If not when did Southern Pacific come to take over the land?
"The Native Sons of the Golden West, an organization dedicated to the preservation of California landmarks, took stewardship of the tree in 1920.[44] The city leased the surrounding land from Southern Pacific": In contrast, [3] this official source claims that the Sons of the Golden West came to own the land, and deeded it to the City of Palo Alto in the 1960s.
— David Eppstein ( talk) 20:57, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
"15 miles to the southeast", "about a half-mile south", "about 8,000 acres", "25-foot-high", "10 feet above the tree": use {{ convert}} per MOS:CONVERSIONS. I think that's more or less it for WP:GACR #1.
Earwig found no significant copying (it showed 30% similarity to http://www.calhsr.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/The-El-Palo-Alto-Redwood-Heritage-Tree-1.pdf but none of the hits looked like inappropriately copied text). All text is footnoted (except for the summary of later material in the lead).
Reference formatting:
|hdl=2027/mdp.39015006075587
Offline and paywalled sources taken AGF. Checking the rest:
Stopping for now, more later. — David Eppstein ( talk) 03:02, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
More source analysis, numbering now based on updated version of article:
On to the other GA criteria next... — David Eppstein ( talk) 01:18, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
That leaves only criterion 6, on the relevance, captioning, and licensing of the images.
— David Eppstein ( talk) 01:01, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
All issues have been addressed, so I will pass the article. — David Eppstein ( talk) 06:56, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
97198 (
talk)
03:04, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Ovinus ( talk). Self-nominated at 08:47, 31 December 2022 (UTC).
The entry states "The section from San Francisco to "Big Tree Station" (now Palo Alto Station), about a half-mile (0.8 km) south of El Palo Alto, was inaugurated on October 7 that year [1863]." Is Big Tree Station actually located where the Palo Alto Station is now? The reference "A bit of History" (1900) has "To Big Tree Station on the San Francisquito Creek" However the Palo Alto Centennial history (page 63) talks about a proposed new station for University Park (now downtown Palo Alto) that Leland Stanford and Hopkins are discussing https://paloaltocitylibrary.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16815coll3/id/135/rec/1 (page 20 of the same work which is cited as supporting that part of this entry mentions Mayfield station not Big Tree Station). The stations at least then were Menlo Park then Mayfield (the current California Avenue station in Palo Alto). This is also the sequence in the Daily Alta California, Volume 15, Number 4981, 18 October 1863 ( https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=DAC18631018.2.3&e=-------en--20--1--txt-txIN--------) Erp ( talk) 00:56, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
BTW the 1890 map shows Rancho Rinconada del Arroyo de San Francisquito and Rancho San Francisquito and the corner where El Palo Alto is (though the tree is not shown explicitly). I annotated with a red arrow though that isn't ideal. Erp ( talk) 01:33, 6 January 2023 (UTC)