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"he refuted Vitruvius' attachment to archaeological remains ..."
States the current article. No he did not, he may have criticised it. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 02:35, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
I can't find a single trustworthy source that explains how the nickname "El Greco" is Italian... I raised this complaint in the Spanish version of the article and no one payed much attention... The word Greco is Spanish, and seeing how it is preceded by the definite article "el", and seeing how El Greco's success was centered in Spain, it is most likely that the origins of the alias is Spanish...
"But the Spanish word for Greek is 'griego', not 'greco'..." The two words are synonyms (like the Netherlands and Holland). What happens is that most people who haven't read Siglo de Oro literature, even if their native language is Spanish, tend to have very wrong notions about the history of the language. Namely, they don't really get just how much the language has changed... So, while it is true that in an illiterate setting no Spanish speaker today uses the word "greco" meaning Greek, the word is in the DRAE. You may look it up. Latest edition.
And seeing how this word still exists even today, I think anyone who has read literature from El Greco's time (like, say, Don Quixote) won't have any trouble picturing the crazy, cool kids of the time preferring the demonym 'greco' instead of 'griego'. Then again what I'm pointing out is a matter of linguistic imagination. It is up to a historian to tell us where, as a matter of fact, did he get the nickname.
-- Fdezcaminero ( talk) 01:53, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
Well, I do use Wikipedia because I think old-fashioned encyclopedias make mistakes too. And notes a and b are from Encyclopedia Britannica. But EB never says the Spanish name for the painter would be "el griego" and not "el greco". This is factually incorrect. And I still think EB is wrong in general, but who am I to prove it?
-- Fdezcaminero ( talk) 02:16, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
It has been hypothesised that El Greco’s pictures include a child with Cornelia de Lange syndrome. It is only a hypothesis. JDAWiseman ( talk) 22:24, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
There is a minor amount of uncited text, but considerable layout issues and MOS:SANDWICHing which should be addressed. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 17:30, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Marking satisfactory, SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 10:01, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
The [a] note from the very opening of the article gives the IPA pronunciation of [el gre'ko] which I very much doubt is correct. The accent falls on the first syllable of Greco. I have changed it for now, even though the G may be pronounced as ɣ, so that's definitely worth taking a further look at. Splićanin ( talk) 10:57, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
The article currently contains a photo of the 11th century church of the Panagia in Fodele, captioned
and with a footnote https://www.meetcrete.com/fodele-birthplace-of-the-painter-el-greco/ glossed as "Fodele-birthplace of El Greco".
However, there is nothing in the article or in the cited source showing any connection at all between El Greco and this chapel; this is a way of smuggling in the speculation (i.e. original research) that El Greco was familiar with the frescoes in this church. Now, it may well be that some reliable source does make this connection; if so, let's add it. But there isn't one today.
What's more, as the article clearly says, his birthplace is disputed, so presenting it in the caption as Fodele is inappropriate, and it is silly support that claim with a reference to a low-quality commercial web travel guide to Crete when we have far better sources (on both sides of the dispute) in the body of the article.
I made these points clearly in my edit summary, and User:Modernist reverted with no substantive explanation. -- Macrakis ( talk) 17:01, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
El Greco article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | El Greco is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 19, 2007. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"he refuted Vitruvius' attachment to archaeological remains ..."
States the current article. No he did not, he may have criticised it. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 02:35, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
I can't find a single trustworthy source that explains how the nickname "El Greco" is Italian... I raised this complaint in the Spanish version of the article and no one payed much attention... The word Greco is Spanish, and seeing how it is preceded by the definite article "el", and seeing how El Greco's success was centered in Spain, it is most likely that the origins of the alias is Spanish...
"But the Spanish word for Greek is 'griego', not 'greco'..." The two words are synonyms (like the Netherlands and Holland). What happens is that most people who haven't read Siglo de Oro literature, even if their native language is Spanish, tend to have very wrong notions about the history of the language. Namely, they don't really get just how much the language has changed... So, while it is true that in an illiterate setting no Spanish speaker today uses the word "greco" meaning Greek, the word is in the DRAE. You may look it up. Latest edition.
And seeing how this word still exists even today, I think anyone who has read literature from El Greco's time (like, say, Don Quixote) won't have any trouble picturing the crazy, cool kids of the time preferring the demonym 'greco' instead of 'griego'. Then again what I'm pointing out is a matter of linguistic imagination. It is up to a historian to tell us where, as a matter of fact, did he get the nickname.
-- Fdezcaminero ( talk) 01:53, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
Well, I do use Wikipedia because I think old-fashioned encyclopedias make mistakes too. And notes a and b are from Encyclopedia Britannica. But EB never says the Spanish name for the painter would be "el griego" and not "el greco". This is factually incorrect. And I still think EB is wrong in general, but who am I to prove it?
-- Fdezcaminero ( talk) 02:16, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
It has been hypothesised that El Greco’s pictures include a child with Cornelia de Lange syndrome. It is only a hypothesis. JDAWiseman ( talk) 22:24, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
There is a minor amount of uncited text, but considerable layout issues and MOS:SANDWICHing which should be addressed. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 17:30, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Marking satisfactory, SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 10:01, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
The [a] note from the very opening of the article gives the IPA pronunciation of [el gre'ko] which I very much doubt is correct. The accent falls on the first syllable of Greco. I have changed it for now, even though the G may be pronounced as ɣ, so that's definitely worth taking a further look at. Splićanin ( talk) 10:57, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
The article currently contains a photo of the 11th century church of the Panagia in Fodele, captioned
and with a footnote https://www.meetcrete.com/fodele-birthplace-of-the-painter-el-greco/ glossed as "Fodele-birthplace of El Greco".
However, there is nothing in the article or in the cited source showing any connection at all between El Greco and this chapel; this is a way of smuggling in the speculation (i.e. original research) that El Greco was familiar with the frescoes in this church. Now, it may well be that some reliable source does make this connection; if so, let's add it. But there isn't one today.
What's more, as the article clearly says, his birthplace is disputed, so presenting it in the caption as Fodele is inappropriate, and it is silly support that claim with a reference to a low-quality commercial web travel guide to Crete when we have far better sources (on both sides of the dispute) in the body of the article.
I made these points clearly in my edit summary, and User:Modernist reverted with no substantive explanation. -- Macrakis ( talk) 17:01, 7 August 2021 (UTC)