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Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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It's really inexcusable and shoddy that this page has no Oxfordian sources for the content related to the Shakespeare authorship question. The reference to the Oxfordian theory of Shakespeare's authorship in the opening paragraph lacks support in the notes. Why not cite Charlton Ogburn or J. Thomas Looney? Similarly, note 188 is a mere popular article from the New York Time when there are a host of substantive and recent Oxfordian books which would be far more appropriate, such as Mark Anderson's Shakespeare By Another Name (2005) or Richard Malim's The Earl of Oxford and the Making of "Shakespeare": The Literary Life of Edward de Vere in Context (2011).
References to this issue should include useful and substantive sources, whether the editors agree with them or not; the present documentation is wholly inadequate and disingenuous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dudleymq ( talk • contribs) 17:06, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
I must agree with these comments. The long-term damage done to this page by listing hundreds of citations to one book, when literally dozens of books have been written about this man,is very evident; the bibliography itself screams a priori prejudice. This is unfortunate and should be changed to protect the reputation of Wikipedia. 73.132.250.25 ( talk) 19:14, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
This is just to congratulate all the industrious scrubbers who have put in so many hours on the references to this article. This article, in this purified form, is destined to become a textbook case of the perversion of scholarship for purely doctrinaire ends, the exclusion of contrary opinion, and the sanitization of a historical record to conform to the intellectual rigidities of a corp of morons. Truly, a remarkable bibliography in every regard, one that students of critical thinking may learn from for a long time. Good work.
Dr. Stritmatter
This article is an utter disgrace. There is no mention of "Shakespeare by Another Name" by Mark Anderson, which links Edward de Vere to Shakespeare. There are no citations of other articles and books about Edward de Vere, most of which show de Vere to be a strong candidate for "Shakespeare." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Susanfalconer2017 ( talk • contribs) 01:29, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
You think? The selection of references is absurd, and gives the utterly false impression that Professor Nelson's hit job bio is reliable or respected among researchers in this field. On the contrary, the absurdity of Nelson's method and arguments have been extensively exposed by informed reviewers, here and elsewhere: https://shakespeareoxfordfellowship.org/tag/alan-nelson/ 73.132.250.25 ( talk) 19:21, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
MaineJill, hello, and welcome to a WP:TALKPAGE. WP has plenty of SAQ articles, this is not one of them. The WP:LEAD in this article summarize the SAQ-section in this article (afaict, "Eighty-seven "alternative" authors" is just something WP says in the list article, it's not actually from a WP:RS). The proper amount of SAQ in this article is next to none. The lead here is not the place to go into details about SAQ. The current version is proper WP:WEIGHT for this article. "alternative candidates proposed" is not misleading, just short and inclomplete, which is fine in this context. Refs like [1] are not very helpful, it's like saying "It's in that library somewhere, go find it". You may find the referencing "tool" found here Help:Introduction to referencing with Wiki Markup/3 helpful, there are others.
References
I'm also unsure about some of your other WP:LEAD changes. The current version,
playwright, but "his violent and perverse temper" and "reckless waste"[1] precluded him from attaining any courtly or governmental responsibility and resulted in the total loss of his extensive inheritance.[2] In the 1888-1900 Dictionary of National Biography,
makes me ask why these "nameless" quotes are in the WP:LEAD and what is so stellar about the 1888-1900 Dictionary of National Biography that it must be mentioned in-text in this part of the article?
That's my view, we'll see if others have any. I'm not a lit PhD who's taught Shakespeare for decades, I've just been editing WP for awhile.
One more thing. SAQ is one of several... let's say conflict areas on WP, and the topic (wherever it appears) is under something called Discretionary sanctions. And, like I said at your talkpage, I still hope you like it here and decide to stay! Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 09:54, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Yet another thing, about references in the WP:LEAD, see WP:LEADREF. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 10:00, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Hello all- Dositheus has changed apparently every instance of "Oxford", where used as de Vere's name, to "De Vere". While some may find this preferable, I think such a change would merit discussion here before implementation. Eric talk 14:56, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on June 24, 2017. |
It's really inexcusable and shoddy that this page has no Oxfordian sources for the content related to the Shakespeare authorship question. The reference to the Oxfordian theory of Shakespeare's authorship in the opening paragraph lacks support in the notes. Why not cite Charlton Ogburn or J. Thomas Looney? Similarly, note 188 is a mere popular article from the New York Time when there are a host of substantive and recent Oxfordian books which would be far more appropriate, such as Mark Anderson's Shakespeare By Another Name (2005) or Richard Malim's The Earl of Oxford and the Making of "Shakespeare": The Literary Life of Edward de Vere in Context (2011).
References to this issue should include useful and substantive sources, whether the editors agree with them or not; the present documentation is wholly inadequate and disingenuous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dudleymq ( talk • contribs) 17:06, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
I must agree with these comments. The long-term damage done to this page by listing hundreds of citations to one book, when literally dozens of books have been written about this man,is very evident; the bibliography itself screams a priori prejudice. This is unfortunate and should be changed to protect the reputation of Wikipedia. 73.132.250.25 ( talk) 19:14, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
This is just to congratulate all the industrious scrubbers who have put in so many hours on the references to this article. This article, in this purified form, is destined to become a textbook case of the perversion of scholarship for purely doctrinaire ends, the exclusion of contrary opinion, and the sanitization of a historical record to conform to the intellectual rigidities of a corp of morons. Truly, a remarkable bibliography in every regard, one that students of critical thinking may learn from for a long time. Good work.
Dr. Stritmatter
This article is an utter disgrace. There is no mention of "Shakespeare by Another Name" by Mark Anderson, which links Edward de Vere to Shakespeare. There are no citations of other articles and books about Edward de Vere, most of which show de Vere to be a strong candidate for "Shakespeare." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Susanfalconer2017 ( talk • contribs) 01:29, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
You think? The selection of references is absurd, and gives the utterly false impression that Professor Nelson's hit job bio is reliable or respected among researchers in this field. On the contrary, the absurdity of Nelson's method and arguments have been extensively exposed by informed reviewers, here and elsewhere: https://shakespeareoxfordfellowship.org/tag/alan-nelson/ 73.132.250.25 ( talk) 19:21, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
MaineJill, hello, and welcome to a WP:TALKPAGE. WP has plenty of SAQ articles, this is not one of them. The WP:LEAD in this article summarize the SAQ-section in this article (afaict, "Eighty-seven "alternative" authors" is just something WP says in the list article, it's not actually from a WP:RS). The proper amount of SAQ in this article is next to none. The lead here is not the place to go into details about SAQ. The current version is proper WP:WEIGHT for this article. "alternative candidates proposed" is not misleading, just short and inclomplete, which is fine in this context. Refs like [1] are not very helpful, it's like saying "It's in that library somewhere, go find it". You may find the referencing "tool" found here Help:Introduction to referencing with Wiki Markup/3 helpful, there are others.
References
I'm also unsure about some of your other WP:LEAD changes. The current version,
playwright, but "his violent and perverse temper" and "reckless waste"[1] precluded him from attaining any courtly or governmental responsibility and resulted in the total loss of his extensive inheritance.[2] In the 1888-1900 Dictionary of National Biography,
makes me ask why these "nameless" quotes are in the WP:LEAD and what is so stellar about the 1888-1900 Dictionary of National Biography that it must be mentioned in-text in this part of the article?
That's my view, we'll see if others have any. I'm not a lit PhD who's taught Shakespeare for decades, I've just been editing WP for awhile.
One more thing. SAQ is one of several... let's say conflict areas on WP, and the topic (wherever it appears) is under something called Discretionary sanctions. And, like I said at your talkpage, I still hope you like it here and decide to stay! Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 09:54, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Yet another thing, about references in the WP:LEAD, see WP:LEADREF. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 10:00, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Hello all- Dositheus has changed apparently every instance of "Oxford", where used as de Vere's name, to "De Vere". While some may find this preferable, I think such a change would merit discussion here before implementation. Eric talk 14:56, 19 April 2023 (UTC)