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In the Aftermath section, the reasons for Matha Mwambwa leaving the project are described, but no mention is made of the two cats. Were the cats ever interviewed? OakMiner ( talk) 02:39, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
THIS... IS... HILARIOUS!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.149.107.253 ( talk) 05:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Above comment might provide basis of a serious treatment of the Zambian Space Project: ridicule by the west. A quick check, https://www.google.com/search?q=Edward+Makuka+Nkoloso&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs , makes clear that the project is seen as a joke. The articles on the project are jokes. This incident could be turned into an examination of attitudes toward African industrialization and western views and attitudes. Will ( talk) 17:14, 21 February 2013 (UTC)woodpainter
In regards to the above two comments, while the events may have been used to get media attention, by way of satire, all evidence suggests his actions were in earnest. He is not just an anonymous figure in Zambian history. Although it would not surprise me if many Zambians feel embarrassment about the "space program", there are also many who are inspired by his audacity. Indeed, there is a certain degree of flamboyance and over-the-top attitudes common in Africa. Roguetech ( talk) 09:48, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
The letter from the Minster of Power stating the government was not involved is marked as needing verification. This is independently verified by another source. Verifying Mr. Kamuyuw was minister of Power [correction: assistant secretary] in 1988 would go a long way, but the information contained is extremely credible, with no reason to doubt its accuracy. Leaving unreliable warning for further discussion. Op-ed by Mr. Nkoloso was also marked as unreliable. However, it is visually consistent with a 1960's newspaper, all facts are consistent with other sources, and it contains a photo of Nkoloso holding a spear that is independently verified he had in 1965. In addition, source is only used to establish Nkoloso's personal intentions, which are described consistently in other sources. Further, his son has tacitly confirmed the contents. Ergo, the source is verifiable beyond any reasonable doubt, despite not knowing the exact publish date or the newspaper it was published in. For these reasons, removed its unreliable warning. With 11 separate largely independent sources, this article is well sourced, and all sources have reasonable verification, and therefore removed of additional citations needed notice. Mr. Nkoloso is an important figure in Zambian history, and the space program garnered wide-spread media attention and clearly not a common occurrence. In addition, it is still relevant to the people of Zambia, and continuing to receive media attention, including an art show and two documentaries. Therefore I removed the notability warning. Roguetech ( talk) 09:48, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Placing this here as summary of arguments, to make it easier for 3rd Party editors to see what's relevant (so you won't have to read through pages of us bickering). There are more involved statements of position below. Inanygivenhole, you may add to this, to properly frame your argument. If I misrepresent your position in any way, my representation is biased in any way, or you feel this edit is inappropriate in general, let me know and I will reedit or remove it. I grant permission for you to remove this post, or add text to it. It is intended to be - with your input - a joint statement of the bare facts. If there are other issues still in dispute, please add them. Roguetech ( talk) 19:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Unknown parameter |laydate=
ignored (
help); Unknown parameter |layurl=
ignored (
help)
Roguetech (
talk)
19:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC)Removed orphan status again. Article is linked from two other article. Removed self-published status. There is no indication that the Wiki article has had any contributions made by the deceased Nkoloso! There are 11 separate sources, only two of which are self-published; neither are used for self-promotion of Nkoloso, but rather to establish intent of otherwise established actions. Removed unreliable source status. The source in question is an article published by Nkoloso in a newspaper. It is been verified by: 1) visual consistency with a 1960's newspaper with no evidence it has been altered or faked (it's a photograph/photocopy); 2) All facts stated within have been independently verified by other sources, so would have required knowledge of events and great skill to fake (some sources used for verification have only recently been published); 3) The article contains a photo verified as being Nkoloso from c.1965, so anyone faking it would have required access to said photo, and indicates likelihood it was published in his lifetime (with no refutation being made available to Western journalism); 4) It is only used to source his personal intentions, and these are consistent with statements made in other sources; 5) His son did not refute the validity in a documentary in which he participated, despite the source having been used and mentioned (CCTV); 6) Only used to source intention to go to mars, to convert martians to Christianity, and belief of vandalism - these beliefs are in no way extraordinary. Therefore, there is no reasonably doubt Nkoloso is the author. Since we can conclude he was the author, exact publication date or the name of the publisher is not relevant to either the information sourced or to the veracity of his statements. The other argument presented is that due to this being a Biography of a Living Person article, higher standards are required. Not only does this article meet those higher standards, but Nkoloso is deceased, so it's not a BLP. Removed stub status due to this article containing all facts available through Western media sources - while more information may be available through African sources, and hopefully these will be added in time, the article does not meet stub standards. In addition, article has been published for several years. Finally, no reason in Talk has been provided for these statuses having been added, and the burden of evidence lies on the one making the allegations. Editor inanygivenhole has been in personal discussion with myself regarding Nkoloso's editorial, and was aware that I oppose considering it unverified. It is my belief inanygivenhole is retaliating for not being able to counter the above list of validation methods, and made no prior mention or argument in support of article being designated stub, orphan or self-published. Roguetech ( talk) 21:58, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Removing BLP from staus of Talk. It's been established he's dead. Correct me if there is still any confusion and/or dispute over this. NOTE: Leaving stub status, though it is not on article page, but I am not going to assume that it's under dispute (e.g. leaving it to 3O discussion). If you have no issues with it, feel free to remove it. Why is the article listed as orphan again?? There are two articles linking to it. Is this still in dispute? Also just noticed the citation under dispute (We're going to Mars! With a spacegirl, two cats and a missionary) should be citing vandalism to the space craft. I mention it as both a note to 3O reviewers that too is relevant, and as "note to self" to re-cite it, depending on 3O outcome. I also suggest a redirect from "Afronauts", but I am making no changes until resolution.
Roguetech (
talk)
20:56, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
Fine, for now, we can work on confirm information, collect better sources. Remembering that this subject is neither controversial nor it's heavily viewed, so no hurries. Bladesmulti ( talk) 17:49, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. Any of those are fine by me. New Scientist implies the document is published in Time. Discovery News article leads back to a travel blog by Mr. Tanguy, who sources it to the museum in Lusaka. Southern Times and Daily Mail source to De Middel's book Afronauts. Interesting to note, that book sold out immediately, and now (less than a year later) copies sell for several thousand dollars. Roguetech ( talk) 19:43, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
You guys might be missing the point of Nkoloso's endeavor. The converting Martians to Christianity thing was a kind of live-action satire. He is quoted (somewhere. Sorry. Source lost.) as saying he planned to try and convert the Martians but would not force his values upon the Martians -- just like the Colonialists told the Zambians. The whole Zambia space program was a cover for training freedom fighters. How else would the British permit Zambians to be taught to make chemical combustion etc. Several of Nkoloso's afronauts were involved in bombings of bridges etc. Nkoloso was educated. He knew his rockets could never fly and he wanted to appear like a fool because only then would the authorities ignore his true intent--to overthrow the British government. ... I cover this in a short historical fiction called "Of Halves and Afronauts" [Kaz Morran: fivefiftyau@gmail.com] — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
240F:57:E86F:1:3C58:6600:6DB0:E064 (
talk)
23:26, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Also: Is it Edward Makuka Nkoloso or Edward Mukuka Nkoloso? because the wiki title spells the name differently than the body does. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
240F:57:E86F:1:3C58:6600:6DB0:E064 (
talk)
23:29, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Some sources refer to him as "Edward Makuka Nkoloso". Do you think that the article should be renamed? NotAGenious ( talk) 14:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
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What exactly is this movement? All my Google results from searching the term lead to this specific person Fasscass ( talk) 21:19, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
The redirect
Zambian Space Programme has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 15 § Zambian Space Programme until a consensus is reached.
Tollens (
talk)
09:24, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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In the Aftermath section, the reasons for Matha Mwambwa leaving the project are described, but no mention is made of the two cats. Were the cats ever interviewed? OakMiner ( talk) 02:39, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
THIS... IS... HILARIOUS!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.149.107.253 ( talk) 05:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Above comment might provide basis of a serious treatment of the Zambian Space Project: ridicule by the west. A quick check, https://www.google.com/search?q=Edward+Makuka+Nkoloso&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs , makes clear that the project is seen as a joke. The articles on the project are jokes. This incident could be turned into an examination of attitudes toward African industrialization and western views and attitudes. Will ( talk) 17:14, 21 February 2013 (UTC)woodpainter
In regards to the above two comments, while the events may have been used to get media attention, by way of satire, all evidence suggests his actions were in earnest. He is not just an anonymous figure in Zambian history. Although it would not surprise me if many Zambians feel embarrassment about the "space program", there are also many who are inspired by his audacity. Indeed, there is a certain degree of flamboyance and over-the-top attitudes common in Africa. Roguetech ( talk) 09:48, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
The letter from the Minster of Power stating the government was not involved is marked as needing verification. This is independently verified by another source. Verifying Mr. Kamuyuw was minister of Power [correction: assistant secretary] in 1988 would go a long way, but the information contained is extremely credible, with no reason to doubt its accuracy. Leaving unreliable warning for further discussion. Op-ed by Mr. Nkoloso was also marked as unreliable. However, it is visually consistent with a 1960's newspaper, all facts are consistent with other sources, and it contains a photo of Nkoloso holding a spear that is independently verified he had in 1965. In addition, source is only used to establish Nkoloso's personal intentions, which are described consistently in other sources. Further, his son has tacitly confirmed the contents. Ergo, the source is verifiable beyond any reasonable doubt, despite not knowing the exact publish date or the newspaper it was published in. For these reasons, removed its unreliable warning. With 11 separate largely independent sources, this article is well sourced, and all sources have reasonable verification, and therefore removed of additional citations needed notice. Mr. Nkoloso is an important figure in Zambian history, and the space program garnered wide-spread media attention and clearly not a common occurrence. In addition, it is still relevant to the people of Zambia, and continuing to receive media attention, including an art show and two documentaries. Therefore I removed the notability warning. Roguetech ( talk) 09:48, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Placing this here as summary of arguments, to make it easier for 3rd Party editors to see what's relevant (so you won't have to read through pages of us bickering). There are more involved statements of position below. Inanygivenhole, you may add to this, to properly frame your argument. If I misrepresent your position in any way, my representation is biased in any way, or you feel this edit is inappropriate in general, let me know and I will reedit or remove it. I grant permission for you to remove this post, or add text to it. It is intended to be - with your input - a joint statement of the bare facts. If there are other issues still in dispute, please add them. Roguetech ( talk) 19:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Unknown parameter |laydate=
ignored (
help); Unknown parameter |layurl=
ignored (
help)
Roguetech (
talk)
19:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC)Removed orphan status again. Article is linked from two other article. Removed self-published status. There is no indication that the Wiki article has had any contributions made by the deceased Nkoloso! There are 11 separate sources, only two of which are self-published; neither are used for self-promotion of Nkoloso, but rather to establish intent of otherwise established actions. Removed unreliable source status. The source in question is an article published by Nkoloso in a newspaper. It is been verified by: 1) visual consistency with a 1960's newspaper with no evidence it has been altered or faked (it's a photograph/photocopy); 2) All facts stated within have been independently verified by other sources, so would have required knowledge of events and great skill to fake (some sources used for verification have only recently been published); 3) The article contains a photo verified as being Nkoloso from c.1965, so anyone faking it would have required access to said photo, and indicates likelihood it was published in his lifetime (with no refutation being made available to Western journalism); 4) It is only used to source his personal intentions, and these are consistent with statements made in other sources; 5) His son did not refute the validity in a documentary in which he participated, despite the source having been used and mentioned (CCTV); 6) Only used to source intention to go to mars, to convert martians to Christianity, and belief of vandalism - these beliefs are in no way extraordinary. Therefore, there is no reasonably doubt Nkoloso is the author. Since we can conclude he was the author, exact publication date or the name of the publisher is not relevant to either the information sourced or to the veracity of his statements. The other argument presented is that due to this being a Biography of a Living Person article, higher standards are required. Not only does this article meet those higher standards, but Nkoloso is deceased, so it's not a BLP. Removed stub status due to this article containing all facts available through Western media sources - while more information may be available through African sources, and hopefully these will be added in time, the article does not meet stub standards. In addition, article has been published for several years. Finally, no reason in Talk has been provided for these statuses having been added, and the burden of evidence lies on the one making the allegations. Editor inanygivenhole has been in personal discussion with myself regarding Nkoloso's editorial, and was aware that I oppose considering it unverified. It is my belief inanygivenhole is retaliating for not being able to counter the above list of validation methods, and made no prior mention or argument in support of article being designated stub, orphan or self-published. Roguetech ( talk) 21:58, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Removing BLP from staus of Talk. It's been established he's dead. Correct me if there is still any confusion and/or dispute over this. NOTE: Leaving stub status, though it is not on article page, but I am not going to assume that it's under dispute (e.g. leaving it to 3O discussion). If you have no issues with it, feel free to remove it. Why is the article listed as orphan again?? There are two articles linking to it. Is this still in dispute? Also just noticed the citation under dispute (We're going to Mars! With a spacegirl, two cats and a missionary) should be citing vandalism to the space craft. I mention it as both a note to 3O reviewers that too is relevant, and as "note to self" to re-cite it, depending on 3O outcome. I also suggest a redirect from "Afronauts", but I am making no changes until resolution.
Roguetech (
talk)
20:56, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
Fine, for now, we can work on confirm information, collect better sources. Remembering that this subject is neither controversial nor it's heavily viewed, so no hurries. Bladesmulti ( talk) 17:49, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. Any of those are fine by me. New Scientist implies the document is published in Time. Discovery News article leads back to a travel blog by Mr. Tanguy, who sources it to the museum in Lusaka. Southern Times and Daily Mail source to De Middel's book Afronauts. Interesting to note, that book sold out immediately, and now (less than a year later) copies sell for several thousand dollars. Roguetech ( talk) 19:43, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
You guys might be missing the point of Nkoloso's endeavor. The converting Martians to Christianity thing was a kind of live-action satire. He is quoted (somewhere. Sorry. Source lost.) as saying he planned to try and convert the Martians but would not force his values upon the Martians -- just like the Colonialists told the Zambians. The whole Zambia space program was a cover for training freedom fighters. How else would the British permit Zambians to be taught to make chemical combustion etc. Several of Nkoloso's afronauts were involved in bombings of bridges etc. Nkoloso was educated. He knew his rockets could never fly and he wanted to appear like a fool because only then would the authorities ignore his true intent--to overthrow the British government. ... I cover this in a short historical fiction called "Of Halves and Afronauts" [Kaz Morran: fivefiftyau@gmail.com] — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
240F:57:E86F:1:3C58:6600:6DB0:E064 (
talk)
23:26, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Also: Is it Edward Makuka Nkoloso or Edward Mukuka Nkoloso? because the wiki title spells the name differently than the body does. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
240F:57:E86F:1:3C58:6600:6DB0:E064 (
talk)
23:29, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Some sources refer to him as "Edward Makuka Nkoloso". Do you think that the article should be renamed? NotAGenious ( talk) 14:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Edward Makuka Nkoloso. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:51, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:34, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
What exactly is this movement? All my Google results from searching the term lead to this specific person Fasscass ( talk) 21:19, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
The redirect
Zambian Space Programme has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 15 § Zambian Space Programme until a consensus is reached.
Tollens (
talk)
09:24, 15 April 2023 (UTC)