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The appearance of in this page's ToC of sec'ns that are not visible on the page is a side-effect of a bad design decision in one of the relevant WikiProjects. This talk page needs the ToC to do its job, and i think we can assume that it the project will find a better way of accomplishing its design goals, and eventually give us an accurate ToC.
--
Jerzy•
t 01:25 &
01:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Carson was actually born in Portarlington, think about it , Portarlington has a huge Protestant population up until the mid 50's so really he wasn't a "true blue" at all.
I tell you I've just found something interesting, he was born in Dublin alright but he spent the "formative years" of his life in Portarlington where he went to primary school. I could've put any amount of money on him being a Laois man, but like most people he only moved there when he was young, i.e. a child after being born. He may have been born in Dublin but he definately wouldn't be classed as a true blue.
There seems to be some confusion as to whether Carson was elected MP for Dublin University in 1892 as a Conservative or Liberal Unionist. I have come across a number of sources which conflict on this point. In one respect it's not important as the Conservatives and Liberal Unionists were in coalition (and merged in 1911) and for many years Conservatives in England as well as Ireland were simply known as "Unionists". But it should be noted that Carson's political views on most issues other than Irish Home Rule placed him in the tradition on 19th century liberalism rather than conservatism. For this reason, I have replaced the term "Conservative" with "Unionist" in respect of his 1892 election to parliament as MP for Dublin University.
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
{{persondata|PLEASE SEE [[WP:PDATA]]!}}
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[?]You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Mal 09:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
This and other articles say that Carson was opposed to partition. When? He certainly supported it in 1920-22, and he seems to have supported it in 1914 by ensuring an exemption for Ulster from the Third Home Rule Bill. I assume that his first desire was to avoid any Home Rule in Ireland, and failing that then to ensure Ulster (or most of it) remained in the UK. That cannot fairly be described as opposing partition: it was an opposition to Home Rule at all, but with a fall-back position. -- Henrygb 21:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
The opening sentence in the section Unionism that reads, "In 1910, the House of Lords' opposition to the Third Irish Home Rule Bill was about to be overridden through the Parliament Act." This needs to be cleared up. The Third Home Rule Bill was not introduced to the Commons until 1912 and the Lords was "about to be overridden" until 1914. -- sony-youth pléigh 08:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The article refers to Carson being made a life peer in 1921. Yet to the best of my knowledge, there were no life peers then. But I can't find any record of anyone succeeeding to the peerage on Carson's death. Can someone please explain? Millbanks 23:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
In the newly available index of wills for England & Wales, we see that Carson left £150,295 18s. 5d. - a huge sum of money for the time. Probate granted to his widow the right honourable Ruby baroness Carson in 1935. PeterClarke 18:08, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm not convinced he did play. Marjoribanks' biography states that he continually suffered from ill health in youth and was unfit for games. -- Counter-revolutionary ( talk) 10:08, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
He played 'Hurley' which was more akin to hockey than to hurling: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/local/questions_raised_over_carson_link_to_hurling_1_1866941 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.18.126 ( talk) 15:22, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
This is a minor point but ought to be cleared up. "The fictional barrister, Morton, is a somewhat different character from Carson, younger and more lively." I suspect this statement is based on Robert Donat's performance in the 1948 film, I doubt if the script mentions his age. In the 1990 TV version he is played as a late middle aged stern and not very likeable character, which I suspect may be closer both to Rattigan's original conception and Carson in real life. PatGallacher ( talk) 01:32, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
He also self-identified as an Irish man but also as a unionist, he was not just considered British. Sheodred ( talk) 16:51, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
To the person who decided to bring this old bag of bones up again, it was settled at Irish years ago. Carson was indeed a British citizen but so was every Irish person back then. And still today, this applies to English people, Scottish people, Welsh people and (Northern) Irish people. However British is just too non-descriptive so people in the UK are often identified by what they are regionally. That's why Andy Murray is referred to as Scottish regardless of the fact he represents "Great Britain" and is the "British No.1". Carson may have been a British politician but he's Irish. As for calling Carson "Anglo-Irish", Carson has always been proud of his "Irish" origins not his "Anglo-Irish" origins and identified as "Irish" not "Anglo-Irish". This is why W.B. Yeats is referred to as Irish regardless of the fact his ancestry is in fact Anglo-Irish. Carson played hurling, had an interest in the Irish language and was an Irish patriot. He's Irish, end of discussion. So I hope this old bag of bones is finally put to rest. Stevenbfg ( talk) 07:46, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Anglo-Irish is an ethnicity, not a nationality. 46.7.236.155 ( talk) 16:40, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
JonC's claim that there was consensus is quite simply untrue and is very dishonest. There was no consensus despite what he claimed and the long protracted 'discussion' with the same few editors is evident of that. It was interesting and unsurprising to see that the 'editors' here of unionist leanings, leap at this opportunity. Keep your stupid politics out of your editing please. ÓCorcráin ( talk) 02:33, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Normally, on the right hand side, under the photo, after listing all the govt. positions held, the time as an MP is listed. Which seats, which dates, for which party and predecessor and successor.
Can someone who knows the details stick them in, please? Ganpati23 ( talk) 11:38, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Edward Carson article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The appearance of in this page's ToC of sec'ns that are not visible on the page is a side-effect of a bad design decision in one of the relevant WikiProjects. This talk page needs the ToC to do its job, and i think we can assume that it the project will find a better way of accomplishing its design goals, and eventually give us an accurate ToC.
--
Jerzy•
t 01:25 &
01:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Carson was actually born in Portarlington, think about it , Portarlington has a huge Protestant population up until the mid 50's so really he wasn't a "true blue" at all.
I tell you I've just found something interesting, he was born in Dublin alright but he spent the "formative years" of his life in Portarlington where he went to primary school. I could've put any amount of money on him being a Laois man, but like most people he only moved there when he was young, i.e. a child after being born. He may have been born in Dublin but he definately wouldn't be classed as a true blue.
There seems to be some confusion as to whether Carson was elected MP for Dublin University in 1892 as a Conservative or Liberal Unionist. I have come across a number of sources which conflict on this point. In one respect it's not important as the Conservatives and Liberal Unionists were in coalition (and merged in 1911) and for many years Conservatives in England as well as Ireland were simply known as "Unionists". But it should be noted that Carson's political views on most issues other than Irish Home Rule placed him in the tradition on 19th century liberalism rather than conservatism. For this reason, I have replaced the term "Conservative" with "Unionist" in respect of his 1892 election to parliament as MP for Dublin University.
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
{{persondata|PLEASE SEE [[WP:PDATA]]!}}
along with the required parameters to the article - see
Wikipedia:Persondata for more information.
[?]You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Mal 09:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
This and other articles say that Carson was opposed to partition. When? He certainly supported it in 1920-22, and he seems to have supported it in 1914 by ensuring an exemption for Ulster from the Third Home Rule Bill. I assume that his first desire was to avoid any Home Rule in Ireland, and failing that then to ensure Ulster (or most of it) remained in the UK. That cannot fairly be described as opposing partition: it was an opposition to Home Rule at all, but with a fall-back position. -- Henrygb 21:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
The opening sentence in the section Unionism that reads, "In 1910, the House of Lords' opposition to the Third Irish Home Rule Bill was about to be overridden through the Parliament Act." This needs to be cleared up. The Third Home Rule Bill was not introduced to the Commons until 1912 and the Lords was "about to be overridden" until 1914. -- sony-youth pléigh 08:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The article refers to Carson being made a life peer in 1921. Yet to the best of my knowledge, there were no life peers then. But I can't find any record of anyone succeeeding to the peerage on Carson's death. Can someone please explain? Millbanks 23:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
In the newly available index of wills for England & Wales, we see that Carson left £150,295 18s. 5d. - a huge sum of money for the time. Probate granted to his widow the right honourable Ruby baroness Carson in 1935. PeterClarke 18:08, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm not convinced he did play. Marjoribanks' biography states that he continually suffered from ill health in youth and was unfit for games. -- Counter-revolutionary ( talk) 10:08, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
He played 'Hurley' which was more akin to hockey than to hurling: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/local/questions_raised_over_carson_link_to_hurling_1_1866941 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.18.126 ( talk) 15:22, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
This is a minor point but ought to be cleared up. "The fictional barrister, Morton, is a somewhat different character from Carson, younger and more lively." I suspect this statement is based on Robert Donat's performance in the 1948 film, I doubt if the script mentions his age. In the 1990 TV version he is played as a late middle aged stern and not very likeable character, which I suspect may be closer both to Rattigan's original conception and Carson in real life. PatGallacher ( talk) 01:32, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
He also self-identified as an Irish man but also as a unionist, he was not just considered British. Sheodred ( talk) 16:51, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
To the person who decided to bring this old bag of bones up again, it was settled at Irish years ago. Carson was indeed a British citizen but so was every Irish person back then. And still today, this applies to English people, Scottish people, Welsh people and (Northern) Irish people. However British is just too non-descriptive so people in the UK are often identified by what they are regionally. That's why Andy Murray is referred to as Scottish regardless of the fact he represents "Great Britain" and is the "British No.1". Carson may have been a British politician but he's Irish. As for calling Carson "Anglo-Irish", Carson has always been proud of his "Irish" origins not his "Anglo-Irish" origins and identified as "Irish" not "Anglo-Irish". This is why W.B. Yeats is referred to as Irish regardless of the fact his ancestry is in fact Anglo-Irish. Carson played hurling, had an interest in the Irish language and was an Irish patriot. He's Irish, end of discussion. So I hope this old bag of bones is finally put to rest. Stevenbfg ( talk) 07:46, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Anglo-Irish is an ethnicity, not a nationality. 46.7.236.155 ( talk) 16:40, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
JonC's claim that there was consensus is quite simply untrue and is very dishonest. There was no consensus despite what he claimed and the long protracted 'discussion' with the same few editors is evident of that. It was interesting and unsurprising to see that the 'editors' here of unionist leanings, leap at this opportunity. Keep your stupid politics out of your editing please. ÓCorcráin ( talk) 02:33, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Normally, on the right hand side, under the photo, after listing all the govt. positions held, the time as an MP is listed. Which seats, which dates, for which party and predecessor and successor.
Can someone who knows the details stick them in, please? Ganpati23 ( talk) 11:38, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Edward Carson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:53, 28 November 2017 (UTC)