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I'm claiming that the suggestion that various Christian values are derived from edicts of Ashoka is noodle-headed. We must remember Occam's razor when we propose an explanation for something. Christianity grew out of Judaism. To theorize that Ashoka's missionaries influenced Christian or pre-Christian thinking, we need to find distinctly Buddhist themes appearing in Christianity which do not appear in Judaism. The distinct core of Buddhism centers around suffering, answered by the eight-fold path, and includes the system of karma/reincarnation (derived from Hinduism). Karmic thinking implies kindness to all creatures. Where is any of this in Christianity? We don't find it. Furthermore we must not discount the possibility of independent development. Benevolence is a central Confucian theme, as well as a Christian one, as well as a Buddhist one. Does that mean Confucius taught Buddha who taught Christ? While I'm sure there are people who believe exactly that, it is not the most likely explanation. Or take religious tolerance: yes, this is a Buddhist theme, but it is also an important theme in the Old Testament -- for example the Book of Jonah where the Jew's pagan antagonists, the Ninevites, are nonetheless spared by God due to their righteousness. So does this mean Moses taught Buddha? Etc. etc. etc. technopilgrim 21:46, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Here's why I call this kind of thinking noodle-headed. Professor Bentley points to the "many parallels" between Jesus and Buddha, such as their deaths. Sounds wonderful, except have you bothered to read an account of Buddha's death and Jesus' death and resurrection? Many parallels you say? Maybe if you close one eye, squint the other, toss out data you don't like, and wish real hard -- maybe then you'll see it that way, but why should we have to do that? (unless we have an agenda other than simple historical factuality)
We must be mindful of the tendency for religions to claim pre-eminence over one another (my favorite example: the followers of Bön who claim they were following the teachings of Buddha 20,000 years before Buddha himself was born -- see Zhang_Zhung_culture#Were_the_Zhang_Zhung_Buddhists). The Daoists are absolutely shameless in this regard. If Professor Bentley makes broad and unsubstantiated claims he risks being associated with these types. Note that it's not just the Buddhists who have a vested interest here but also Hindu and New Age apologists. Or perhaps Professor Bentley is just trying to make a name for himself with an "Einstein is wrong!" kind of stance, trying to earn a name for himself or tenure, I don't know. This is why it is so nice when assertions are derived from evidence and reason, because then it doesn't matter what Bentley's motivations are...
None of which is to say that I'm opposed to including influences of Ashokan missionaries on the West, if we can find something a little beefier than these vague claims. Scanning the web I see some sites claim that the Western monastic tradition traces back to Indian roots. I didn't check their tracing, but if such a tracing could be found and if it traced through the edicts of Ashoka, then I'd be delighted to see it added.
technopilgrim 02:15, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Do you happen to have Bentleys book? Perhaps he mentions the scholars by name & then maybe we can find out more about their claims and also if they met with any degree of acceptance in the scholarly community. If Bentley talks about scholars without naming any of them specifically, I think we can safely conclude that he himself doesn't take scholarship or peer review too seriously. technopilgrim 18:51, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I've found a number of translations of the various Ashoka Edicts, but haven't yet found which specific edict was written in Greek and Aramaic - can anyone here point me in the right direction? Thanks, Nightngle (nightngle@yahoo.com)
This picture was removed because of possible copyright violation. The copyright notice on Wikipedia incorrectly stated that the picture is from buddha101.com and used with the permission of the author of that site. The picture is not on buddha101.com and no permission was given.
I made a couple changes in this regard that I wanted to explain more fully for any intersted parties.
Overall, this article is suffering from a lot of the same problems that the Ashoka article has. It is relying heavily on Buddhist legends about the life of Ashoka for information without making it clear that is the case. There's a big difference between what Buddhists have traditionally believed about Ashoka, and what scholars say we can know about Ashoka. We need to make clear in this article which is which. -- Clay Collier 09:04, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
When you read the Asoka Edicts, there is no evidence he was a Buddhist at all. The only Edict where Asoka actually mentions Buddha, the Minor Edict 3, is clearly a forgery. In Minor Edict #3 at Bairat, unlike all the other Edicts, it lacks the standard "Beloved-of-the-God" phrase, and its greating ("saluting the Sangha and wishing them good health"S. Dhammika trans @ www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html) is unlike any other Edict. Also, the references to specific Buddhist teachings and text unlike any other Edict makes it clearly a forgery.
The only other Edict that specifically ties Asoka with Buddhism is the Minor Pillar Edit at Lumbini. But unlike all the other Edicts, Asoka is not speaking (he is only refered to in the 3rd person - "He had a stone figure", not the first person "I commanded" that you would have found on all the other Edicts, included the forged Minor Edict at Bairat. But at least this forger got the "Beloved of the Gods" phrase right, unlike the Bairat Edict. After you have eliminated these 2 Edicts, which clearly seem to forgeries, there is no specific evidence that Asoka was actually a Buddhist, or even knew of Buddha. The word "Dharma" is not a uniquely Buddhist term, and none of the other concepts and ideas in the genuine Asoka Edicts are uniquely Buddhist. Even the Wikipedia article recognized the absence of key and unique Buddist concepts.
The fact that Buddha or uniquely Buddist ideas or concepts are never mentioned in any of the Asoka Edicts that are not suspect argues strongly that Asoka was not a Buddhist. If Constantine the Great, the first Christian Roman emperor, never mentioned Jesus we would be equally suspicious that Constantine was ever a Christian. A religion claiming an prestigious figure in history as one of their is not unknown. Alexander the Great (Iskandar) was sometimes treated in Islam as a muslim, although that tradition has fallen out of favor as the knowledge of the real history of Alexandar increased. Like the Christians and Muslims, the Buddhist many centuries after Asoka time co-opted the famous Asoka as one of their own, a fact made much easier by the India's general lack of ancient Indian written histories as compared with the west - ancient India had no Herodotus, no Tacticus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.51.147.97 ( talk) 00:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
The following map could be used to illustrate the article. If someone would like to introduce it in the article, please do. PHG ( talk) 06:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
A nice image of the Junagadh rock, on which fourteen of the Edicts of Ashoka can be found. Feel free to insert in the article. PHG ( talk) 18:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
The line given in third para "The inscriptions found in the eastern part of India were written in the Magadhi language, using the Brahmi script. In the western part of India, the language used is closer to Sanskrit, using the Kharoshthi script, one extract of Edict 13 in the Greek language, and one bilingual edict written in Greek and Aramaic". in which you have told that inscription found in western part of Indian is closer to sankrit, how can it be because the sankrit was found later in 11th Century and the inscriptions found was in 2 century BCE, so kindly analyse that.... GentalMan ( talk) 10:03, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Ashoka used the medium of Edicts to propagate his own policy of Dhamma not Buddhism. Wondering the one who wrote this article and the other one who created(If not same). Just an another attempt to manipulate history. How could i say that? read this one, there's around 80 references cited. This article should be removed from search directory from current effect. Needs to re-written presenting reliable sources. Anup Mehra ✈ 19:41, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:08, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
Utcursch, as you are interested in political history of India and impressed by your quality work, I invite you to rewrite this and other associated articles. This topic is very important in historical context and read by around 400 peoples a day. the current version is tagged for a long time without much improvement. The current version looks like an article on Buddhism, not on edicts. Regards,- Nizil ( talk) 06:07, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Edicts of Ashoka appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 14 September 2004. The text of the entry was as follows:
|
I'm claiming that the suggestion that various Christian values are derived from edicts of Ashoka is noodle-headed. We must remember Occam's razor when we propose an explanation for something. Christianity grew out of Judaism. To theorize that Ashoka's missionaries influenced Christian or pre-Christian thinking, we need to find distinctly Buddhist themes appearing in Christianity which do not appear in Judaism. The distinct core of Buddhism centers around suffering, answered by the eight-fold path, and includes the system of karma/reincarnation (derived from Hinduism). Karmic thinking implies kindness to all creatures. Where is any of this in Christianity? We don't find it. Furthermore we must not discount the possibility of independent development. Benevolence is a central Confucian theme, as well as a Christian one, as well as a Buddhist one. Does that mean Confucius taught Buddha who taught Christ? While I'm sure there are people who believe exactly that, it is not the most likely explanation. Or take religious tolerance: yes, this is a Buddhist theme, but it is also an important theme in the Old Testament -- for example the Book of Jonah where the Jew's pagan antagonists, the Ninevites, are nonetheless spared by God due to their righteousness. So does this mean Moses taught Buddha? Etc. etc. etc. technopilgrim 21:46, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Here's why I call this kind of thinking noodle-headed. Professor Bentley points to the "many parallels" between Jesus and Buddha, such as their deaths. Sounds wonderful, except have you bothered to read an account of Buddha's death and Jesus' death and resurrection? Many parallels you say? Maybe if you close one eye, squint the other, toss out data you don't like, and wish real hard -- maybe then you'll see it that way, but why should we have to do that? (unless we have an agenda other than simple historical factuality)
We must be mindful of the tendency for religions to claim pre-eminence over one another (my favorite example: the followers of Bön who claim they were following the teachings of Buddha 20,000 years before Buddha himself was born -- see Zhang_Zhung_culture#Were_the_Zhang_Zhung_Buddhists). The Daoists are absolutely shameless in this regard. If Professor Bentley makes broad and unsubstantiated claims he risks being associated with these types. Note that it's not just the Buddhists who have a vested interest here but also Hindu and New Age apologists. Or perhaps Professor Bentley is just trying to make a name for himself with an "Einstein is wrong!" kind of stance, trying to earn a name for himself or tenure, I don't know. This is why it is so nice when assertions are derived from evidence and reason, because then it doesn't matter what Bentley's motivations are...
None of which is to say that I'm opposed to including influences of Ashokan missionaries on the West, if we can find something a little beefier than these vague claims. Scanning the web I see some sites claim that the Western monastic tradition traces back to Indian roots. I didn't check their tracing, but if such a tracing could be found and if it traced through the edicts of Ashoka, then I'd be delighted to see it added.
technopilgrim 02:15, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Do you happen to have Bentleys book? Perhaps he mentions the scholars by name & then maybe we can find out more about their claims and also if they met with any degree of acceptance in the scholarly community. If Bentley talks about scholars without naming any of them specifically, I think we can safely conclude that he himself doesn't take scholarship or peer review too seriously. technopilgrim 18:51, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I've found a number of translations of the various Ashoka Edicts, but haven't yet found which specific edict was written in Greek and Aramaic - can anyone here point me in the right direction? Thanks, Nightngle (nightngle@yahoo.com)
This picture was removed because of possible copyright violation. The copyright notice on Wikipedia incorrectly stated that the picture is from buddha101.com and used with the permission of the author of that site. The picture is not on buddha101.com and no permission was given.
I made a couple changes in this regard that I wanted to explain more fully for any intersted parties.
Overall, this article is suffering from a lot of the same problems that the Ashoka article has. It is relying heavily on Buddhist legends about the life of Ashoka for information without making it clear that is the case. There's a big difference between what Buddhists have traditionally believed about Ashoka, and what scholars say we can know about Ashoka. We need to make clear in this article which is which. -- Clay Collier 09:04, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
When you read the Asoka Edicts, there is no evidence he was a Buddhist at all. The only Edict where Asoka actually mentions Buddha, the Minor Edict 3, is clearly a forgery. In Minor Edict #3 at Bairat, unlike all the other Edicts, it lacks the standard "Beloved-of-the-God" phrase, and its greating ("saluting the Sangha and wishing them good health"S. Dhammika trans @ www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html) is unlike any other Edict. Also, the references to specific Buddhist teachings and text unlike any other Edict makes it clearly a forgery.
The only other Edict that specifically ties Asoka with Buddhism is the Minor Pillar Edit at Lumbini. But unlike all the other Edicts, Asoka is not speaking (he is only refered to in the 3rd person - "He had a stone figure", not the first person "I commanded" that you would have found on all the other Edicts, included the forged Minor Edict at Bairat. But at least this forger got the "Beloved of the Gods" phrase right, unlike the Bairat Edict. After you have eliminated these 2 Edicts, which clearly seem to forgeries, there is no specific evidence that Asoka was actually a Buddhist, or even knew of Buddha. The word "Dharma" is not a uniquely Buddhist term, and none of the other concepts and ideas in the genuine Asoka Edicts are uniquely Buddhist. Even the Wikipedia article recognized the absence of key and unique Buddist concepts.
The fact that Buddha or uniquely Buddist ideas or concepts are never mentioned in any of the Asoka Edicts that are not suspect argues strongly that Asoka was not a Buddhist. If Constantine the Great, the first Christian Roman emperor, never mentioned Jesus we would be equally suspicious that Constantine was ever a Christian. A religion claiming an prestigious figure in history as one of their is not unknown. Alexander the Great (Iskandar) was sometimes treated in Islam as a muslim, although that tradition has fallen out of favor as the knowledge of the real history of Alexandar increased. Like the Christians and Muslims, the Buddhist many centuries after Asoka time co-opted the famous Asoka as one of their own, a fact made much easier by the India's general lack of ancient Indian written histories as compared with the west - ancient India had no Herodotus, no Tacticus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.51.147.97 ( talk) 00:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
The following map could be used to illustrate the article. If someone would like to introduce it in the article, please do. PHG ( talk) 06:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
A nice image of the Junagadh rock, on which fourteen of the Edicts of Ashoka can be found. Feel free to insert in the article. PHG ( talk) 18:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
The line given in third para "The inscriptions found in the eastern part of India were written in the Magadhi language, using the Brahmi script. In the western part of India, the language used is closer to Sanskrit, using the Kharoshthi script, one extract of Edict 13 in the Greek language, and one bilingual edict written in Greek and Aramaic". in which you have told that inscription found in western part of Indian is closer to sankrit, how can it be because the sankrit was found later in 11th Century and the inscriptions found was in 2 century BCE, so kindly analyse that.... GentalMan ( talk) 10:03, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Ashoka used the medium of Edicts to propagate his own policy of Dhamma not Buddhism. Wondering the one who wrote this article and the other one who created(If not same). Just an another attempt to manipulate history. How could i say that? read this one, there's around 80 references cited. This article should be removed from search directory from current effect. Needs to re-written presenting reliable sources. Anup Mehra ✈ 19:41, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Edicts of Ashoka. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
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nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:08, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
Utcursch, as you are interested in political history of India and impressed by your quality work, I invite you to rewrite this and other associated articles. This topic is very important in historical context and read by around 400 peoples a day. the current version is tagged for a long time without much improvement. The current version looks like an article on Buddhism, not on edicts. Regards,- Nizil ( talk) 06:07, 5 May 2018 (UTC)