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I tried to put in a sentence mentioning Poe's family origin, but this was deleted, ostensibly because questions over the sources reliability. To try and clear things up I subsequently put in a paragraph looking at the various published claims by family and friends over where the Poes came from, but this was also deleted. The matter revolves around Edgar's grandfather David Poe Sr. from County Cavan, Ireland. The sources are an 1860 book "Edgar Poe and his Critics" by Edgar's one-time fiancée Sarah Helen Whitman which say Edgar's great-grandfather was the Irish-born son-in-law of Admiral John MacBride MP. The second source is James A. Harrison's 1900 book "Life and Letters of Edgar Allan Poe" which contains a sizeable quote from Edgar Allan Poe's cousin, John P. Poe, Sr., who says that Edgar's great-grandfather (from who he descended himself) was actually Admiral MacBride's brother-in-law. Drawing on these sources the genealogist Sir Edmund Thomas Bewley, who deals with Edgar in his detailed 1906 study of the Poe families of Ireland, examines various church records of Ireland and locates Edgar's great-grandfather married to the sister of Admiral MacBride in Cavan. My own preference would be to include this information in two sentences rather than a detailed paragraph, for example:
Edgar's grandfather, David Poe, Sr., was born in the early 1740s in Dring, Kildallon, near the town of Killeshandra, County Cavan, Ireland. David Poe, Sr. was the nephew of Admiral John MacBride MP and emigrated with his parents and siblings to America in 1749 or 1750. [1]
As I say the sources are rather straightforward, and I prefer a shorter reference to the Poe's origins, but perhaps others might think it better to reference Sarah Helen Whitman and Edgar's cousin. Blippityblop ( talk) 06:53, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
References
To clarify further:
The first edit I made was, contrary to Midnightdreary's claims, one sentence. It read: "His grandfather David Poe, Snr. was born in Dring, Kildallon, near the town of Killeshandra, County Cavan, Ireland, before emigrating as a young child with his parents and siblings to Pennsylvania in 1749 or 1750." (17th April). He deleted this because he felt it was "not a good enough reliable source for a featured article". My response was to add a paragraph (18th April) dealing with the two statements of both Sarah Whitman and John P Poe respectively, before bringing in the genealogist Sir Edmund Thomas Bewley's study of the Poe family records on the Irish side; and in trying to compromise and meet with Midnightdreary's initial objections, I attempted to shift the emphasis of my edit to the fact that the stories of Poe's ancestry was indeed current amongst his family and friend. When Midnightdreary deleted this edit, he/she wrote "Tentatively removing; I question the reliability of these sources on such a high-profile featured article". No mention of the "undue weight" that Midnightdreary now is claiming is the reason he/she deleted it.
I thought it would be best to approach Midnightdreary on his/her talk page to discuss the matter - he or she obiously wasn't interested in discussing the matter, "Don't look at me" being the response I got to trying to open a polite and good mannered discussion.
As Midnightdreary points out with some merit, there has been questions over some of Sarah Whitman's work. However, this version of Poe's ancestry was indepently verified and slightly amended by Poe's own cousin John Prentiss Poe, who submitted an account of his own Poe ancestry to John Henry Ingram for his 1880 book "Edgar Allan Poe: his life, letters, and opinions". The original 6 page manuscript account of this ancestry, written in John P. Poe's own hand in 1876, is held in the University of Virginia's Special Collections Library in the "John Henry Ingram's Poe Collection", item 220. ( http://ead.lib.virginia.edu/vivaxtf/view?docId=uva-sc/viu00220.xml)
Although Midnightdreary tries to write off the source because it comes from "freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com", he/she neglects to mention that the link on that site is to a PDF copy of Sir Edmund Thomas Bewley's 'The origin and early history of the family of Poe', published in Dublin in 1906, which as one can see is very detailed study of that family and which deals with all the above sources as well as all the local Church and other records available in Ireland.
For my part, I think with the information put here now, that one or two short sentences in the article succintly stating the facts of Poe's ancestry should suffice - if Midnightdreary is willing to cede his/her ownership of the article that is. Blippityblop ( talk) 17:48, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
It might be worth discussing how the article suffers by adding Blippityblop's single sentence--rather than just trying to defend its inclusion. It seems that we are merely concerned about the articles length and focus. Blippityblop makes a valid point that the information is substantiated by modern biographies. If Poes published biographer's felt that such information did not hinder their work (and Quinn devotes a significant percentage of his biography to Poe's ancestry), does one sentence here on wiki really hinder the article? The focus of the article is entirely subjective and pseudodemocratic in that it becomes merely what the people make it. The recommendations for maximum length of featured articles are just that--recommendations. I don't see how the article truly suffers by one brief sentence which Bippitybop has compromised to. The article is a featured article and the majority of the credit probably is due to Midnightdreary so his concerns are valid--but it is also true that sometimes Rob seems to defend the Poe articles as though they were his own. But he knows (and we all know) they are not. He seems to be a good natured fellow who has only the integrity of the article in mind. In this case though I don't think his arguments are compelling enough to omit the information in question. I don't know what inclusion truly does to improve the article, but it doesn't really seem to lower the quality either. Aruffo, Blippity didn't say that cryptography was not a significant part of Poe's professional life, merely that some might argue that he is not notable as a cryptographer. It is good though that we got past the modern scholarship nonsense. Antiquity does not equate insignificance. Nor does the focus of modern scholarship make it right simply because it is modern. There are many minute details in the works of Copernicus and Kepler which modern scholars are likely to ignore but they are still significant to those who care to study such details. 19th century studies of Poe's life and works are fair resources for improving this article. So let's have no more of that silliness. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 19:57, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi. I am the chief editor of the article on Poe in the Spanish Wikipedia. I think you should not delete the contribution of Blippityblop because it completes, adds information to a very interesting item as is the ancestors of the writer. Among the sources, some are more reliable than others. But "all" should appear on an author as important as Poe. On the less reliable, you may, v. gr., add that they are less reliable: it’s easy to do. But almost "all" are valid, since no one possesses the absolute truth about anything or anybody, and nobody, except the consensus of historical criticism can establish which sources are valid and which are not valid or less valid, or which are "entirely" less valid, or "entirely" not valid. This is neutrality. Isn’t it? If you allow me to say, this article is manifestly poor in its content, especially regarding the work of the author. What the reader wants to know about an author like Poe? O sorry, but I think he mainly wants to know everything about the stories (horror, detective, sci.-fic. tales). And what about the views of other geniuses on him? I refer to the views of Lovecraft, Baudelaire, Stevenson, Eliot, Harry Levin (a great jew scholar)... Does it matter what Lovecraft said of Poe? Do not? I think the answer is YES. The section on his work is very poor, short, shallow and, in my opinion, it doesn’t deserve the status of featured. An encyclopedia is more to add than to remove (IF NOT GARBAGE). Time adds, and Wikipedia is still very young, do not forget it. If you want to remove, remove the Poe toaster, or homes, landmarks, and museums... People want to know what HE DID and not what WE did with his legacy. What is the question?: What should be the weight of an article or what people want to know about this subject. Thank you for your attention.-- Sürrell ( talk) 12:04, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
1. Interesting topics to describe an author's life: his family, his friends, his ancestors, his teachers. (Who were the Pilgrim Fathers? Bah, never mind.) Is also interesting, is necessary what those who knew him well said of him. For what reason. Because I'm 150 years away from him. What his girlfriend said about him is of great interest to know the person. She saw him, she knew his eyes colour, she heard his voice, even she kissed him. It is first hand information: therefore gold information. My information, on the contrary, now is only fourth or fifth or tenth hand. My job is to transmit simply this information of first-hand in the correct perspective (beware of the primary sources). 2. Articles about writers consist of two parts. Biography and work. I think, in terms of size, must be fifty / fifty, more or less. Your article is a great article (thanks for it, I translated it because I thought it was excellent), but not enough when it comes to his work (that is why I expanded it much). 3. I'm much more interested in Baudelaire's, T. S. Eliot’s, Borges’, Edmund Wilson’s view that of Sowa, Meyers, Silverman. Sorry. Don’t you have a policy of more or less authoritative sources, more or less important kind of sources? I have a problem: I want to know what Stevenson or Dostoievsky had to say about Poe. This is very important for me, excuse me. (But, for me only?) This is it and nothing more.;) -- Sürrell ( talk) 18:06, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
No answers again? Oh my! Well, well, well. Maybe I'm a f. troll, but these are my last words, brothers. Through this article format, the figure of the writer is clearly unbalanced. In this article you are attending the life of a poor little man who always suffered serious problems and pain, although, indeed, was much talked about. Is this true? No. This is not Poe. You need to add a large section of his work, gender to gender, unspecified, no work by work, an overview, but in extenso, and also showing the views of other great writers. Then you attend to the true greatness of the writer, the true extent of Poe as a genius of humanity. Only this and nothing more. The choice is yours. A.M.D.G. -- Sürrell ( talk) 18:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, first I am not referring directly to you, Midnightdreary. The action plan I suggest is to suggest to the editors of the article that it be expanded into an essential part. But first you must recognize that this part really is essential. The works of Poe. I am mostly interested in the hero for what he did; mostly. Perhaps many readers as well... I'm not talking about the article " The Black Cat", I'm not talking about the article " The Fall of the House of Usher", Edgar Allan Poe in popular culture... These articles already exist. I'm talking about the article Edgar Allan Poe, because it is incomplete. I am not saying this only because I'm interested, but because the article itself is interested in it, compared to the Encyclopedia Britannica, for example, and everyone who knows what an encyclopedia is. An article is good only if it is complete, and more a featured article. I think this article is unfinished. However, alas, I may be wrong. You can set up a poll about it among other users in en:wik to find out for sure, if you consider appropriate. If my opinion does not apply to you, forget me and that's that, but I also am addressing others. You will be strongly enough about Poe's ancestry by visiting this: Arthur Hobson Quinn; it's just a suggestion. You say the truth: we are not under a deadline: Poe's work, Poe's ancestors, are not under a deadline. So you do not remove the contribution of Blippityblop! Right? Do you think that the Pilgrim Fathers (ancestors) are interesting in American history? Yes? Sorry, I think this article does not adequately respect the memory of Poe. You can do something about it or not. This is a free country. Thank you for your attention.-- Sürrell ( talk) 13:44, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Ha, ha. Still confused? I will bring fire to thee. 1. Bad boy, you misrepresented my words. I say: This article should not be a featured article because it does not mention Poe's work enough, and other items, as Poe's ancestry. 2. If Blippityblop wants to add that information, is he welcome to? Then, restore his information. 3. The States is your country and this is the free encyclopedia, a free funny space, and that is why you, and others, can take my advice or not. 4. The section about Poe's work is not under a deadline, of course. I think it is primarily the responsibility of Midnightdreary (the main editor) to enlarge it (sorry, I think). Is it clearer now? You're welcome.;)-- Sürrell ( talk) 17:55, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Attacked? Attacked? I have studied the history of the article and I saw that Midnightdreary (mainly) handles a large amount of literature that he could use to expand the section of Poe’s work. As for me, I can not help, Midnightdreary, I’m too weak and weary from my work in the article in Spanish. Believe me, friends: you are in a moral and aesthetic obligation of expanding this section (and Poe’s ancestry, etc.). «I haven't been able to understand exactly what Sürrell is trying to say»: Oh my: Is this America? Well: Goodbye, Farewell, So long! Misery is manifold. The wretchedness of earth is multiform... -- Sürrell ( talk) 09:58, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Listen, folks. This is a very interesting topic. I think that this editor, Midnightdreary, should not distort the words of editor Sürrell anymore. Editor Sürrell does not say you have to extend the influence of Poe, but the work of Poe. You do not just say nothing of the work. And Poe is not just a drunk who married a girl of 13 years and went hungry, as shown in this article. This article is half article, as Sürrell says, and a bit ridiculous article for that reason. Poeseye-- 85.59.141.63 ( talk) 09:46, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Oh my... Lists? No, thanks. We already have the phone-book for lists. This article has a clear bias against Poe, and, in fact, some believe that is «displaying Poe as a negative figure or living a negative life» in the same line as Griswold, Krutch, Bonaparte, Yvor Winters, Huxley, and others. It is an old and sordid subject. For what reason? Because Poe's work does not have enough extension. And this decompensation, this omission is absolutely un-jus-ti-fi-a-ble. And it is a bi-as and it is ne-ga-ti-ve for Poe's memory and the truth. It is also ridiculous to keep distorting, dear friend of lists and Poe´s toasters. Poeseye-- 85.53.137.255 ( talk) 17:52, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
You have worked the article (467 edits). You started it, somehow. You control all editions and, according to your subjective judgment, you deleted many of them, some of my own. Then, you morally must finish it. If you do not understand what we say, you should go to school to learn. Is it clear now, dear friend of Poe’s toasters? Pd.: By the way, do you know if H.P. (another American genius, isn't he) once wrote something about Poe? Poeseye-- 85.53.144.8 ( talk) 09:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
The information in the Wikipedia article seems to be accurate, and uses appropriate language for the viewer, but the layout of the article as a whole seems to be cluttered, unorganized, and ends up looking thrown together. Large gaps are present between paragraphs with a single picture in between. A simple condensing of space would make this article more attractive, and a rearranging of visuals to chronological sequence, or relevance would also improve overall appearance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JedJaren ( talk • contribs) 20:24, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Although the Wikipedia article contains abundant information on influences of Poe’s work, additional information of his achievements would expand this article and provide a more sufficient list of writing, and poetry. Where the article lacks information is in the list of poems and stories, after only a few minutes of research I had found numerous titles that have not been listed on Wikipedia, poems such as, For Annie, or The Sleeper. Also the article’s links to a list of poems, and short stories only focuses on a few narrow themes of Edgar Allan Poe’s life work, although the article mentions several different themes Poe used, the article primarily focuses on Poe’s more well-known work of Gothic genre. Poe had written many stories outside of this category, such as Detective stories, stories of love, or tales of pirates. JedJaren — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.65.81.73 ( talk) 00:01, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
The link for the hospital of Poe's death points to the wrong hospital. The link points to Washington College Hospital on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, likely over a day's journey from Baltimore back in Poe's day. The correct reference should be Washington Medical College, aka Church Home and Hospital, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Home_and_Hospital. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:470:8:D1D:B95F:9ACF:404F:52E0 ( talk) 01:59, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your moderation of this page, and the quick response and update of the link. You might also want to consider changing "Washington College Hospital" to "Washington Medical College". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:470:8:D1D:B95F:9ACF:404F:52E0 ( talk) 00:52, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Zarei, Rouhollah (2013). Edgar Allan Poe: An Archetypal Reading. Amherst, New York: Cambria Press. ISBN 9781604978476. http://www.cambriapress.com/cambriapress.cfm?template=4&bid=551 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zareir ( talk • contribs) 03:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
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Please add the following item to the "Futher readings" section: Pireddu, Nicoletta. “Poe spoetizzato: l’esotismo tarchettiano,” in _Fantastico Poe_, ed. by R. Cagliero (Ombre Corte, 2004): 157-176. Ichnussa2000 ( talk) 13:58, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
I edited the second graph and twice the edits were reverted. Once because of purported 'grammatical errors" (there are few, if any, and should be edited and not wholesale deleted) and another time because, apparently, FA is to be confused with 'perfect'. It is not. This graph is an improvement and I will take it to arbitration if I have to. The previous version of the graph I edited had multiple issues and was misleading: not least of which it make it seem that Poe and the Allans (collectively) had tension. Not so. Poe and Frances Allan had an apparently very loving relationship right up until her death and it was with the parsimonious John Allan (and later his second wife) with whom Poe principally quarrelled. In addition the graph, which is supposed to be a summary, doesn't make note of the fact that Poe was a second child and confuses the death of his mother with the abandonment of the father when in fact those events occurred a year apart. The previous graph glosses over the death of Frances Allan. The previous graph also conflates his first stint in the army with his attempts at West Point. The previous graph also ends with the publication of Tamerlane... making it appear as though the book came out after he left West Point when in fact it was published during his first, abortive, attempt at army life, the success of which led him, while at West Point, to believe he could make a living as a writer. Petrsw ( talk) 18:16, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
...and another wad of ex-novel went straight into the trash can.{{nbsp}} Oh, how do I defeat this horrid Writer's Block?
Hello, I'm a new member and therefore apologies if I am going about this the wrong way. I just thought that an addition to the 'Poe in 'Popular Culture' section could mention the 2013 Fox Entertainment series called 'The Following' starring Kevin Bacon. The plot is about a University lecturer who goes on to recruit his students to help him on his killing spree. The recruitment generally begins with the teachings of Poe in poetry lessons. The main character (Joe Carrol) often quotes Poe's famous quote "The death of a beautiful woman...". There are also several scenes where the various killers wear 'Poe' masks whilst on the rampage.
For more information and for verification see
Http://WWW.imdb.com/title/tt2071645/?ref_=nv_St_1
And also
Http://WWW.fox.com/the-following/
I hope that this has been of some help.
Moonwalkerfairy ( talk) 00:10, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
Dead link: Hall, Wiley (August 15, 2007). " Poe Fan Takes Credit for Grave Legend"
After search I found this: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2007-08-15-poe-fan_N.htm
The link on Poe Toaster (ref 13) is also dead, could be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceciliawolf ( talk • contribs) 00:54, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
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In the beginning it is stated that Poe married his cousin in 1835, however, the line under her image states 1836. I believe 1836 is the correct year, I found most references to this year. Nietanoniem ( talk) 07:52, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Nietanoniem ( talk) 07:52, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
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template. Due to the discrepancy here, there will need to be a consensus achieved through discussion and presentation of
RS to back up claims one way or the other. Until there is such a consensus to change (or make a permanent note that the date has been discussed and declared accurate so that we don't have to revisit this multiple times without new sources that would be needed to influence a change), I'm deactivating this request. Please feel free to reactivate when consensus is reached. — {{U|
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20:10, 3 March 2014 (UTC)I would recommend putting this source in when you mention Poe's writing of humor. The source, a professor who has written multiple books on Poe, argues that Poe wrote more humor than is commonly understood. To quote: "In Poe and the Subversion of American Literature: Satire, Fantasy, Critique, I argue that Poe is perhaps best viewed as a practical joker, a highly skilled literary prankster whose fundamental talent lay in putting one over on people. More frequently than we care to admit, the victims of these confidence games, these diddles, are us, the readers." http://humorinamerica.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/joker-poe-part-1-just-diddling/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.62.24.135 ( talk) 22:45, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Was the following edit ever discussed? Did I miss the discussion?
01:42, 21 February 2014 Scewing (talk | contribs) . . (67,287 bytes) (+2) . . (image swap) (undo | thank)
If it was discussed can someone give me the link to the discussion because I seemed to have missed it. If it wasn't discussed, I think it should be. I don't have anything against the new image per se, but the prior (the Ultima Thule) has been defended by other editors in the past as the most appropriate image for the top of this article. What do others currently think? MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 21:05, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I agree that the Ultima Thule image is the most recognizable. It has sort of become the archetype of Poe. The "Annie" image is of similar quality, from a similar period in his life, and is almost as famous as the Ultima Thule. So I'm not sure how the article is improved by making the Annie the main image instead of the Ultima Thule. Both are images from late in Poe's life, both show him with a mustache (which is not how he looked for most of his life--only the last couple years), both images were known to contemporaries of Poe at that time in his life, both are referenced in historic documents, and both are well established as authentic by Poe scholars. So to me it seems like they are both qualitatively equal except the the Ultima Thule is more immediately recognizable. Now, it is generally the custom, with living celebrities, to use a contemporary photo rather than a perhaps more famous image from that celebrity's youth (see the Henry Winkler article as an example, the main image is from 2013, it's not a picture of him as the Fonz). So perhaps that was the logic for the change--the Annie image is a later image. But with dead celebrities, I don't think that is customary.
As long as we're on the topic, I have argued before, and still think that the Osgood portrait should be in the article since it more closely represents Poe as he looked for most of his adult life. There are only two arguments against it (that I can think of). 1, the article size and status may not readily permit adding the Osgood portrait. But wiki recommendations for article size are not immutable physical laws. 2, women who knew Poe commented that the Osgood portrait was not a good resemblance--but their objections to it were emotional, not analytical--so I don't think that is a valid reason for exclusion. Anyway, I think the Ultima Thule should be moved back up to the top of the article and the Annie can move down. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 00:38, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I've asked the editor who made the image swap to stop by this page and join the conversation. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 00:43, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I definitely think the Halling image could be omitted and the Osgood portrait could take it's place. That being said, I have never made that type of edit to an article and don't actually know how. So even though I was the one arguing to include the Osgood portrait, I would need someone else to make this edit.
That leaves us with the matter of the Ultima Thule vs the Annie as the main image.... MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 02:26, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for stopping by and thanks for working on these images, Scewing. Sorry that it took me a while to respond, I don't really have any complaints with changing up the main image. It sounds like we all agree that the Ultima Thule is the best candidate as it is the most famous, but it also sounds like no one has any real objection to using the Annie. So probably your edit will stand as is. In time someone may swap it for the Ultima Thule again, but for now no one seems to care. Sounds like you've got group consensus--though, admittedly, only three people have joined the conversation. Thanks again. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 11:27, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for making that edit, Scewing. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 12:26, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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86.171.40.248 ( talk) 17:41, 31 August 2014 (UTC)edagr alan poe was born in Virginia Ireland and migrated to America at a very young age
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I would like to add a book at the further reading section: Robert C. Marley, Tell-tale Twins, engl. edition, Luebbe, 2014 (Todesuhr, german Edition, Luebbe 2013) The novel describes the mystery surrounding Poes last days. Andrea Miebs ( talk) 20:57, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
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Anupmehra -
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22:12, 16 October 2014 (UTC)Hi, the fact about Edgar's father abandoning the family is incorrect. In early 1811 his father died of consumption.
Reference is page 6 of J.H Ingram's Edgar Allan Poe, His life, Letters, and Opinions
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90.222.112.66 ( talk) 05:58, 25 December 2014 (UTC) I think jack the ripper was a edgaR A PO FAN SORRY I HAVE DYSLEXIA BUT LOOK AT THE FACTS THANK YOU
Why has this fact been left out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhkhlhklhkj ( talk • contribs) 06:46, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
he donated sperm to women — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.0.78.206 ( talk) 21:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
I tried to put in a sentence mentioning Poe's family origin, but this was deleted, ostensibly because questions over the sources reliability. To try and clear things up I subsequently put in a paragraph looking at the various published claims by family and friends over where the Poes came from, but this was also deleted. The matter revolves around Edgar's grandfather David Poe Sr. from County Cavan, Ireland. The sources are an 1860 book "Edgar Poe and his Critics" by Edgar's one-time fiancée Sarah Helen Whitman which say Edgar's great-grandfather was the Irish-born son-in-law of Admiral John MacBride MP. The second source is James A. Harrison's 1900 book "Life and Letters of Edgar Allan Poe" which contains a sizeable quote from Edgar Allan Poe's cousin, John P. Poe, Sr., who says that Edgar's great-grandfather (from who he descended himself) was actually Admiral MacBride's brother-in-law. Drawing on these sources the genealogist Sir Edmund Thomas Bewley, who deals with Edgar in his detailed 1906 study of the Poe families of Ireland, examines various church records of Ireland and locates Edgar's great-grandfather married to the sister of Admiral MacBride in Cavan. My own preference would be to include this information in two sentences rather than a detailed paragraph, for example:
Edgar's grandfather, David Poe, Sr., was born in the early 1740s in Dring, Kildallon, near the town of Killeshandra, County Cavan, Ireland. David Poe, Sr. was the nephew of Admiral John MacBride MP and emigrated with his parents and siblings to America in 1749 or 1750. [1]
As I say the sources are rather straightforward, and I prefer a shorter reference to the Poe's origins, but perhaps others might think it better to reference Sarah Helen Whitman and Edgar's cousin. Blippityblop ( talk) 06:53, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
References
To clarify further:
The first edit I made was, contrary to Midnightdreary's claims, one sentence. It read: "His grandfather David Poe, Snr. was born in Dring, Kildallon, near the town of Killeshandra, County Cavan, Ireland, before emigrating as a young child with his parents and siblings to Pennsylvania in 1749 or 1750." (17th April). He deleted this because he felt it was "not a good enough reliable source for a featured article". My response was to add a paragraph (18th April) dealing with the two statements of both Sarah Whitman and John P Poe respectively, before bringing in the genealogist Sir Edmund Thomas Bewley's study of the Poe family records on the Irish side; and in trying to compromise and meet with Midnightdreary's initial objections, I attempted to shift the emphasis of my edit to the fact that the stories of Poe's ancestry was indeed current amongst his family and friend. When Midnightdreary deleted this edit, he/she wrote "Tentatively removing; I question the reliability of these sources on such a high-profile featured article". No mention of the "undue weight" that Midnightdreary now is claiming is the reason he/she deleted it.
I thought it would be best to approach Midnightdreary on his/her talk page to discuss the matter - he or she obiously wasn't interested in discussing the matter, "Don't look at me" being the response I got to trying to open a polite and good mannered discussion.
As Midnightdreary points out with some merit, there has been questions over some of Sarah Whitman's work. However, this version of Poe's ancestry was indepently verified and slightly amended by Poe's own cousin John Prentiss Poe, who submitted an account of his own Poe ancestry to John Henry Ingram for his 1880 book "Edgar Allan Poe: his life, letters, and opinions". The original 6 page manuscript account of this ancestry, written in John P. Poe's own hand in 1876, is held in the University of Virginia's Special Collections Library in the "John Henry Ingram's Poe Collection", item 220. ( http://ead.lib.virginia.edu/vivaxtf/view?docId=uva-sc/viu00220.xml)
Although Midnightdreary tries to write off the source because it comes from "freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com", he/she neglects to mention that the link on that site is to a PDF copy of Sir Edmund Thomas Bewley's 'The origin and early history of the family of Poe', published in Dublin in 1906, which as one can see is very detailed study of that family and which deals with all the above sources as well as all the local Church and other records available in Ireland.
For my part, I think with the information put here now, that one or two short sentences in the article succintly stating the facts of Poe's ancestry should suffice - if Midnightdreary is willing to cede his/her ownership of the article that is. Blippityblop ( talk) 17:48, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
It might be worth discussing how the article suffers by adding Blippityblop's single sentence--rather than just trying to defend its inclusion. It seems that we are merely concerned about the articles length and focus. Blippityblop makes a valid point that the information is substantiated by modern biographies. If Poes published biographer's felt that such information did not hinder their work (and Quinn devotes a significant percentage of his biography to Poe's ancestry), does one sentence here on wiki really hinder the article? The focus of the article is entirely subjective and pseudodemocratic in that it becomes merely what the people make it. The recommendations for maximum length of featured articles are just that--recommendations. I don't see how the article truly suffers by one brief sentence which Bippitybop has compromised to. The article is a featured article and the majority of the credit probably is due to Midnightdreary so his concerns are valid--but it is also true that sometimes Rob seems to defend the Poe articles as though they were his own. But he knows (and we all know) they are not. He seems to be a good natured fellow who has only the integrity of the article in mind. In this case though I don't think his arguments are compelling enough to omit the information in question. I don't know what inclusion truly does to improve the article, but it doesn't really seem to lower the quality either. Aruffo, Blippity didn't say that cryptography was not a significant part of Poe's professional life, merely that some might argue that he is not notable as a cryptographer. It is good though that we got past the modern scholarship nonsense. Antiquity does not equate insignificance. Nor does the focus of modern scholarship make it right simply because it is modern. There are many minute details in the works of Copernicus and Kepler which modern scholars are likely to ignore but they are still significant to those who care to study such details. 19th century studies of Poe's life and works are fair resources for improving this article. So let's have no more of that silliness. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 19:57, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi. I am the chief editor of the article on Poe in the Spanish Wikipedia. I think you should not delete the contribution of Blippityblop because it completes, adds information to a very interesting item as is the ancestors of the writer. Among the sources, some are more reliable than others. But "all" should appear on an author as important as Poe. On the less reliable, you may, v. gr., add that they are less reliable: it’s easy to do. But almost "all" are valid, since no one possesses the absolute truth about anything or anybody, and nobody, except the consensus of historical criticism can establish which sources are valid and which are not valid or less valid, or which are "entirely" less valid, or "entirely" not valid. This is neutrality. Isn’t it? If you allow me to say, this article is manifestly poor in its content, especially regarding the work of the author. What the reader wants to know about an author like Poe? O sorry, but I think he mainly wants to know everything about the stories (horror, detective, sci.-fic. tales). And what about the views of other geniuses on him? I refer to the views of Lovecraft, Baudelaire, Stevenson, Eliot, Harry Levin (a great jew scholar)... Does it matter what Lovecraft said of Poe? Do not? I think the answer is YES. The section on his work is very poor, short, shallow and, in my opinion, it doesn’t deserve the status of featured. An encyclopedia is more to add than to remove (IF NOT GARBAGE). Time adds, and Wikipedia is still very young, do not forget it. If you want to remove, remove the Poe toaster, or homes, landmarks, and museums... People want to know what HE DID and not what WE did with his legacy. What is the question?: What should be the weight of an article or what people want to know about this subject. Thank you for your attention.-- Sürrell ( talk) 12:04, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
1. Interesting topics to describe an author's life: his family, his friends, his ancestors, his teachers. (Who were the Pilgrim Fathers? Bah, never mind.) Is also interesting, is necessary what those who knew him well said of him. For what reason. Because I'm 150 years away from him. What his girlfriend said about him is of great interest to know the person. She saw him, she knew his eyes colour, she heard his voice, even she kissed him. It is first hand information: therefore gold information. My information, on the contrary, now is only fourth or fifth or tenth hand. My job is to transmit simply this information of first-hand in the correct perspective (beware of the primary sources). 2. Articles about writers consist of two parts. Biography and work. I think, in terms of size, must be fifty / fifty, more or less. Your article is a great article (thanks for it, I translated it because I thought it was excellent), but not enough when it comes to his work (that is why I expanded it much). 3. I'm much more interested in Baudelaire's, T. S. Eliot’s, Borges’, Edmund Wilson’s view that of Sowa, Meyers, Silverman. Sorry. Don’t you have a policy of more or less authoritative sources, more or less important kind of sources? I have a problem: I want to know what Stevenson or Dostoievsky had to say about Poe. This is very important for me, excuse me. (But, for me only?) This is it and nothing more.;) -- Sürrell ( talk) 18:06, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
No answers again? Oh my! Well, well, well. Maybe I'm a f. troll, but these are my last words, brothers. Through this article format, the figure of the writer is clearly unbalanced. In this article you are attending the life of a poor little man who always suffered serious problems and pain, although, indeed, was much talked about. Is this true? No. This is not Poe. You need to add a large section of his work, gender to gender, unspecified, no work by work, an overview, but in extenso, and also showing the views of other great writers. Then you attend to the true greatness of the writer, the true extent of Poe as a genius of humanity. Only this and nothing more. The choice is yours. A.M.D.G. -- Sürrell ( talk) 18:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, first I am not referring directly to you, Midnightdreary. The action plan I suggest is to suggest to the editors of the article that it be expanded into an essential part. But first you must recognize that this part really is essential. The works of Poe. I am mostly interested in the hero for what he did; mostly. Perhaps many readers as well... I'm not talking about the article " The Black Cat", I'm not talking about the article " The Fall of the House of Usher", Edgar Allan Poe in popular culture... These articles already exist. I'm talking about the article Edgar Allan Poe, because it is incomplete. I am not saying this only because I'm interested, but because the article itself is interested in it, compared to the Encyclopedia Britannica, for example, and everyone who knows what an encyclopedia is. An article is good only if it is complete, and more a featured article. I think this article is unfinished. However, alas, I may be wrong. You can set up a poll about it among other users in en:wik to find out for sure, if you consider appropriate. If my opinion does not apply to you, forget me and that's that, but I also am addressing others. You will be strongly enough about Poe's ancestry by visiting this: Arthur Hobson Quinn; it's just a suggestion. You say the truth: we are not under a deadline: Poe's work, Poe's ancestors, are not under a deadline. So you do not remove the contribution of Blippityblop! Right? Do you think that the Pilgrim Fathers (ancestors) are interesting in American history? Yes? Sorry, I think this article does not adequately respect the memory of Poe. You can do something about it or not. This is a free country. Thank you for your attention.-- Sürrell ( talk) 13:44, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Ha, ha. Still confused? I will bring fire to thee. 1. Bad boy, you misrepresented my words. I say: This article should not be a featured article because it does not mention Poe's work enough, and other items, as Poe's ancestry. 2. If Blippityblop wants to add that information, is he welcome to? Then, restore his information. 3. The States is your country and this is the free encyclopedia, a free funny space, and that is why you, and others, can take my advice or not. 4. The section about Poe's work is not under a deadline, of course. I think it is primarily the responsibility of Midnightdreary (the main editor) to enlarge it (sorry, I think). Is it clearer now? You're welcome.;)-- Sürrell ( talk) 17:55, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Attacked? Attacked? I have studied the history of the article and I saw that Midnightdreary (mainly) handles a large amount of literature that he could use to expand the section of Poe’s work. As for me, I can not help, Midnightdreary, I’m too weak and weary from my work in the article in Spanish. Believe me, friends: you are in a moral and aesthetic obligation of expanding this section (and Poe’s ancestry, etc.). «I haven't been able to understand exactly what Sürrell is trying to say»: Oh my: Is this America? Well: Goodbye, Farewell, So long! Misery is manifold. The wretchedness of earth is multiform... -- Sürrell ( talk) 09:58, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Listen, folks. This is a very interesting topic. I think that this editor, Midnightdreary, should not distort the words of editor Sürrell anymore. Editor Sürrell does not say you have to extend the influence of Poe, but the work of Poe. You do not just say nothing of the work. And Poe is not just a drunk who married a girl of 13 years and went hungry, as shown in this article. This article is half article, as Sürrell says, and a bit ridiculous article for that reason. Poeseye-- 85.59.141.63 ( talk) 09:46, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Oh my... Lists? No, thanks. We already have the phone-book for lists. This article has a clear bias against Poe, and, in fact, some believe that is «displaying Poe as a negative figure or living a negative life» in the same line as Griswold, Krutch, Bonaparte, Yvor Winters, Huxley, and others. It is an old and sordid subject. For what reason? Because Poe's work does not have enough extension. And this decompensation, this omission is absolutely un-jus-ti-fi-a-ble. And it is a bi-as and it is ne-ga-ti-ve for Poe's memory and the truth. It is also ridiculous to keep distorting, dear friend of lists and Poe´s toasters. Poeseye-- 85.53.137.255 ( talk) 17:52, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
You have worked the article (467 edits). You started it, somehow. You control all editions and, according to your subjective judgment, you deleted many of them, some of my own. Then, you morally must finish it. If you do not understand what we say, you should go to school to learn. Is it clear now, dear friend of Poe’s toasters? Pd.: By the way, do you know if H.P. (another American genius, isn't he) once wrote something about Poe? Poeseye-- 85.53.144.8 ( talk) 09:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
The information in the Wikipedia article seems to be accurate, and uses appropriate language for the viewer, but the layout of the article as a whole seems to be cluttered, unorganized, and ends up looking thrown together. Large gaps are present between paragraphs with a single picture in between. A simple condensing of space would make this article more attractive, and a rearranging of visuals to chronological sequence, or relevance would also improve overall appearance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JedJaren ( talk • contribs) 20:24, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Although the Wikipedia article contains abundant information on influences of Poe’s work, additional information of his achievements would expand this article and provide a more sufficient list of writing, and poetry. Where the article lacks information is in the list of poems and stories, after only a few minutes of research I had found numerous titles that have not been listed on Wikipedia, poems such as, For Annie, or The Sleeper. Also the article’s links to a list of poems, and short stories only focuses on a few narrow themes of Edgar Allan Poe’s life work, although the article mentions several different themes Poe used, the article primarily focuses on Poe’s more well-known work of Gothic genre. Poe had written many stories outside of this category, such as Detective stories, stories of love, or tales of pirates. JedJaren — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.65.81.73 ( talk) 00:01, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
The link for the hospital of Poe's death points to the wrong hospital. The link points to Washington College Hospital on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, likely over a day's journey from Baltimore back in Poe's day. The correct reference should be Washington Medical College, aka Church Home and Hospital, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Home_and_Hospital. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:470:8:D1D:B95F:9ACF:404F:52E0 ( talk) 01:59, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your moderation of this page, and the quick response and update of the link. You might also want to consider changing "Washington College Hospital" to "Washington Medical College". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:470:8:D1D:B95F:9ACF:404F:52E0 ( talk) 00:52, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Zarei, Rouhollah (2013). Edgar Allan Poe: An Archetypal Reading. Amherst, New York: Cambria Press. ISBN 9781604978476. http://www.cambriapress.com/cambriapress.cfm?template=4&bid=551 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zareir ( talk • contribs) 03:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
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Please add the following item to the "Futher readings" section: Pireddu, Nicoletta. “Poe spoetizzato: l’esotismo tarchettiano,” in _Fantastico Poe_, ed. by R. Cagliero (Ombre Corte, 2004): 157-176. Ichnussa2000 ( talk) 13:58, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
I edited the second graph and twice the edits were reverted. Once because of purported 'grammatical errors" (there are few, if any, and should be edited and not wholesale deleted) and another time because, apparently, FA is to be confused with 'perfect'. It is not. This graph is an improvement and I will take it to arbitration if I have to. The previous version of the graph I edited had multiple issues and was misleading: not least of which it make it seem that Poe and the Allans (collectively) had tension. Not so. Poe and Frances Allan had an apparently very loving relationship right up until her death and it was with the parsimonious John Allan (and later his second wife) with whom Poe principally quarrelled. In addition the graph, which is supposed to be a summary, doesn't make note of the fact that Poe was a second child and confuses the death of his mother with the abandonment of the father when in fact those events occurred a year apart. The previous graph glosses over the death of Frances Allan. The previous graph also conflates his first stint in the army with his attempts at West Point. The previous graph also ends with the publication of Tamerlane... making it appear as though the book came out after he left West Point when in fact it was published during his first, abortive, attempt at army life, the success of which led him, while at West Point, to believe he could make a living as a writer. Petrsw ( talk) 18:16, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
...and another wad of ex-novel went straight into the trash can.{{nbsp}} Oh, how do I defeat this horrid Writer's Block?
Hello, I'm a new member and therefore apologies if I am going about this the wrong way. I just thought that an addition to the 'Poe in 'Popular Culture' section could mention the 2013 Fox Entertainment series called 'The Following' starring Kevin Bacon. The plot is about a University lecturer who goes on to recruit his students to help him on his killing spree. The recruitment generally begins with the teachings of Poe in poetry lessons. The main character (Joe Carrol) often quotes Poe's famous quote "The death of a beautiful woman...". There are also several scenes where the various killers wear 'Poe' masks whilst on the rampage.
For more information and for verification see
Http://WWW.imdb.com/title/tt2071645/?ref_=nv_St_1
And also
Http://WWW.fox.com/the-following/
I hope that this has been of some help.
Moonwalkerfairy ( talk) 00:10, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
Dead link: Hall, Wiley (August 15, 2007). " Poe Fan Takes Credit for Grave Legend"
After search I found this: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2007-08-15-poe-fan_N.htm
The link on Poe Toaster (ref 13) is also dead, could be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceciliawolf ( talk • contribs) 00:54, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
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In the beginning it is stated that Poe married his cousin in 1835, however, the line under her image states 1836. I believe 1836 is the correct year, I found most references to this year. Nietanoniem ( talk) 07:52, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Nietanoniem ( talk) 07:52, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
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template. Due to the discrepancy here, there will need to be a consensus achieved through discussion and presentation of
RS to back up claims one way or the other. Until there is such a consensus to change (or make a permanent note that the date has been discussed and declared accurate so that we don't have to revisit this multiple times without new sources that would be needed to influence a change), I'm deactivating this request. Please feel free to reactivate when consensus is reached. — {{U|
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20:10, 3 March 2014 (UTC)I would recommend putting this source in when you mention Poe's writing of humor. The source, a professor who has written multiple books on Poe, argues that Poe wrote more humor than is commonly understood. To quote: "In Poe and the Subversion of American Literature: Satire, Fantasy, Critique, I argue that Poe is perhaps best viewed as a practical joker, a highly skilled literary prankster whose fundamental talent lay in putting one over on people. More frequently than we care to admit, the victims of these confidence games, these diddles, are us, the readers." http://humorinamerica.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/joker-poe-part-1-just-diddling/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.62.24.135 ( talk) 22:45, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Was the following edit ever discussed? Did I miss the discussion?
01:42, 21 February 2014 Scewing (talk | contribs) . . (67,287 bytes) (+2) . . (image swap) (undo | thank)
If it was discussed can someone give me the link to the discussion because I seemed to have missed it. If it wasn't discussed, I think it should be. I don't have anything against the new image per se, but the prior (the Ultima Thule) has been defended by other editors in the past as the most appropriate image for the top of this article. What do others currently think? MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 21:05, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I agree that the Ultima Thule image is the most recognizable. It has sort of become the archetype of Poe. The "Annie" image is of similar quality, from a similar period in his life, and is almost as famous as the Ultima Thule. So I'm not sure how the article is improved by making the Annie the main image instead of the Ultima Thule. Both are images from late in Poe's life, both show him with a mustache (which is not how he looked for most of his life--only the last couple years), both images were known to contemporaries of Poe at that time in his life, both are referenced in historic documents, and both are well established as authentic by Poe scholars. So to me it seems like they are both qualitatively equal except the the Ultima Thule is more immediately recognizable. Now, it is generally the custom, with living celebrities, to use a contemporary photo rather than a perhaps more famous image from that celebrity's youth (see the Henry Winkler article as an example, the main image is from 2013, it's not a picture of him as the Fonz). So perhaps that was the logic for the change--the Annie image is a later image. But with dead celebrities, I don't think that is customary.
As long as we're on the topic, I have argued before, and still think that the Osgood portrait should be in the article since it more closely represents Poe as he looked for most of his adult life. There are only two arguments against it (that I can think of). 1, the article size and status may not readily permit adding the Osgood portrait. But wiki recommendations for article size are not immutable physical laws. 2, women who knew Poe commented that the Osgood portrait was not a good resemblance--but their objections to it were emotional, not analytical--so I don't think that is a valid reason for exclusion. Anyway, I think the Ultima Thule should be moved back up to the top of the article and the Annie can move down. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 00:38, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I've asked the editor who made the image swap to stop by this page and join the conversation. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 00:43, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I definitely think the Halling image could be omitted and the Osgood portrait could take it's place. That being said, I have never made that type of edit to an article and don't actually know how. So even though I was the one arguing to include the Osgood portrait, I would need someone else to make this edit.
That leaves us with the matter of the Ultima Thule vs the Annie as the main image.... MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 02:26, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for stopping by and thanks for working on these images, Scewing. Sorry that it took me a while to respond, I don't really have any complaints with changing up the main image. It sounds like we all agree that the Ultima Thule is the best candidate as it is the most famous, but it also sounds like no one has any real objection to using the Annie. So probably your edit will stand as is. In time someone may swap it for the Ultima Thule again, but for now no one seems to care. Sounds like you've got group consensus--though, admittedly, only three people have joined the conversation. Thanks again. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 11:27, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for making that edit, Scewing. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 12:26, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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86.171.40.248 ( talk) 17:41, 31 August 2014 (UTC)edagr alan poe was born in Virginia Ireland and migrated to America at a very young age
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I would like to add a book at the further reading section: Robert C. Marley, Tell-tale Twins, engl. edition, Luebbe, 2014 (Todesuhr, german Edition, Luebbe 2013) The novel describes the mystery surrounding Poes last days. Andrea Miebs ( talk) 20:57, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
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Anupmehra -
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22:12, 16 October 2014 (UTC)Hi, the fact about Edgar's father abandoning the family is incorrect. In early 1811 his father died of consumption.
Reference is page 6 of J.H Ingram's Edgar Allan Poe, His life, Letters, and Opinions
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90.222.112.66 ( talk) 05:58, 25 December 2014 (UTC) I think jack the ripper was a edgaR A PO FAN SORRY I HAVE DYSLEXIA BUT LOOK AT THE FACTS THANK YOU
Why has this fact been left out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhkhlhklhkj ( talk • contribs) 06:46, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
he donated sperm to women — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.0.78.206 ( talk) 21:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)