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We are not allowed to use self-published sources in articles about living people. I've removed citations to Rhode Island Latino Political Empowerment, self-published through Lulu.com, and a paper published through Scribd. Will Beback talk 00:41, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
I've also removed this blog:
Blogs, as self-published sources, aren't allowed either. Will Beback talk 20:43, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Template:Infobox officeholder is intended for use by holders of public office, not people on the boards of private organizations. If it is being used in the article of other non-officeholders it should be removed from those too. Will Beback talk 16:58, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
I agree that Republicans are a suitable constituency and the infobox is appropriate as is (I put the infobox back). All party leaders - Democrats, Republicans, etc. in both the general party and auxiliaries use this infobox or the politician infobox. I think the chronological changes Will Beback made are really good - but I think the infobox that was there, including the constituency, was appropriate as well.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 17:14, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello Ts5seeker and Will Beback: I'll try the politician infobox. It should be suitable to this - you're both welcome to give feedback, of course, but I definitely think either infobox is applicable.--
Libertyconsulting (
talk) 17:35, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Will Beback: I honestly feel the opposite is the better question; many articles for partisan organization leaders use the politician or the office-holder infobox. As a reader myself, I feel the politician box also serves the function of allowing the reader to navigate back and forth between others who have held the same post (in this case, there's no article on Lopez-Reyes' predecessor, but I think there should be and I will make the effort to create that when I have the time). I actually don't understand why the generic person infobox would be used in a case for which a type of box has been created, e.g., Mike Tyson's infobox is for boxers, specifically - I don't see why we'd move away from the specificity of what Lopez-Reyes' role is by using a more generic infobox rather than the politician infobox. -- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 18:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Will Beback, I appreciate all your contributions and your experience here. I don't question any of that, but I honestly feel some of the points you raise are just for the sake of debate. I've noticed you work quite heavily on the Republican Liberty Caucus (as have I since I started writing) and (more specifically) that you follow specific writers on Wikipedia (I've seen at least two discussions to that effect - maybe three). In your role here, do you focus on certain things at certain times? I'm asking sincerely since I am relatively new to this myself.
I just get the sense you have a very strong view or personal opinion on a number of things; I don't question your being capable of improving these pages but at times I notice when you have your point of view, there are never two or more people who can disagree with you and feel like the work they did or a choice they made was reasonable. I'm not saying that's the case with this entire article, necessarily; and I am asking with sincerity - but there's something entirely counterintuitive (in my own opinion) about your issue with the infobox: we're talking about a political actor. Somehow we are to take a scale you have in your mind as the determining factor in whether or not this political actor should be edited into a politician infobox or not? Your view is that the "Vice Chair of the RLC is not a particularly significant post," so does this mean if any of us write any new articles on officers elected to similar organizations you will be engaging is in this debate to infinity?
I feel public access to information on who is elected to officer roles and boards on groups such as the Republican Liberty Caucus or the Democratic Liberty Caucus - if such a group exists - is paramount to understanding these organizations. I think these officer roles are important. Why does your view suffice for a decision here but not mine? I'm not implying you have acted on this with respect to this page - but I saw a similar debate between you and another writer on the actual Republican Liberty Caucus page. I have to say I actually see the other writer's point but you had your way and edited the page the way you saw fit, period.
I don't think anyone here will question your experience. As I say above, I've noticed other discussions you've participated in and I see a similar pattern (I think sometimes it borders on going too far when others don't see things your way: your editing can get quite heavy-handed. I say that with a great deal of respect for you - but I see a potential for problems here).
Simply stated: you can't compare a PTA to a national organization - this is an organization that was once chaired by a sitting congressman, who is currently running for president; I don't think it's quite fair that people who invest their free time to help write these items out have to explain details like this. I'm frankly disheartened by this because it seems some of the points you raise just waste considerable time unnecessarily. If you don't feel a national organization is worth a Wikipedia entry, can't you simply skip it and work on pages you are more keenly interested in? I digress.
Some examples:
Regarding your view on the significance of the post (of officers or Board members in similar organizations):
Regarding use of the politician box:
To answer your question more directly: would use the infobox for a PTA member? If this PTA was a national organization that was at one point chaired by a sitting congressman who is running for president and that exercises muscle in the form of a PAC, sure. What you are comparing, however, are apples and oranges. I think it may be a matter of what subjects one is interested in helping write on Wikipedia. I may be learning Wikipedia but feel seasoned enough to discern the relevance of some things and know there are others that agree: Ts5seeker? This is supposed to be informative and it's supposed to add knowledge and resources. I can offer more examples of the items above - but I honestly feel the point is well-made: you can't compare a national organization and its officers to a local PTA. That's absurd.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:05, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
I want to emphasize Will Beback, that I say this with the greatest respect in the world for the work you've done here, which I imagine is quite ample. I just feel I speak for more than myself here in that we're all trying to contribute resources to Wikipedia - I just feel quite strongly that it's unfair to compare a PTA to a national organization. It's a distraction from actually improving the accuracy of the article (articles related to the organization) - a process which includes choosing the specificity of infoboxes as carefully as you advocate yourself. I can't wrap my head around the idea that the politician infobox is inadequate here.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:19, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I'm new around here so please don't bite. I have noticed that changes to edits that don't make sense are reverted, just like that (Constituency - Will Beback). Isn't editing Wikipedia meant to be regulated by Wikipedia policy? Explanations will be appreciated. -- Ts5seeker ( talk) 17:03, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Will Beback: I disagree with something you've edited out several times - the RLC website. Any of the officers elected to roles in the RLC are elected to represent the organization. The organization's website is just as legitimate to list, in my view, as their own because that is the entity they represent. I'm not going to bother with that - but my guess is someone else will replace that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Libertyconsulting ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
There are many, many articles out there where my view is clearly supported: an officer for an organization represents that organization. The content of that website reflects their work too. If the national vice chair didn't have his own website, no one would question this. Yes, I can find many examples of this too. I didn't think something as silly as this would come up. The preponderance of articles that reflect my view is sufficient evidence. Here's a random one that I used before: the current Chairman of the Republican National Committee.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:09, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Virtually all of the sources, and even the subject's personal website, call him "Ed Lopez". WP:NC says that articles should be titled with the most common name. Is there any reason why we shouldn't move the article to Ed Lopez? Will Beback talk 19:42, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
It seems linking to Ed Lopez would make sense. But it seems clear the full name is Lopez-reyes.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:10, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
OK - sounds good.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:29, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Where can we find a photo for this page?-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:32, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Hey Folks - my original name was "banned" because I sounded like a "group" of people. Rest assured, it's me, myself, and I alone. Libertyconsulting (as in one who can consult for the cause of liberty and freedom) is now the "Libertydude." Any talk about the Lopez-Reyes (Lopez) page, the Liberty Republicans, etc... feel free to drop me a line. I'd like to continue working with you (Will Beback and Ts5seeker, etc.). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Libertydude ( talk • contribs) 01:49, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
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Hi,
I just took a quick look at this article and I have two thoughts:
I would be happy to go ahead and make some edits - and see if there is notable content for him. It would be far better, too, to have a smaller, targeted article than one with a lot of filler. Thoughts about that?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 20:04, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
In response to your comments, Grant18650602, if there are some things in external links that could be used to augment what is in the article, it would be better to create a "Further reading" section, formatted as citations. I'll go back and look at the list again.
I am lost about why NewsMax is not considered a reliable, credible source - so we shouldn't have an article about it. .– CaroleHenson ( talk) 22:34, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
I have not heard of this site until today, would it qualify as a better source than this existing source in the article?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 22:57, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
David Gerard, Do you have any thoughts about what needs to be done to resolve the notability tag?
The article was nominated for deletion in 2016 and the decision was to keep, which of course can be revisited. I think you were the one that added the tag, and I just wanted to check your thoughts about it.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 16:56, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 25 November 2016. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
We are not allowed to use self-published sources in articles about living people. I've removed citations to Rhode Island Latino Political Empowerment, self-published through Lulu.com, and a paper published through Scribd. Will Beback talk 00:41, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
I've also removed this blog:
Blogs, as self-published sources, aren't allowed either. Will Beback talk 20:43, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Template:Infobox officeholder is intended for use by holders of public office, not people on the boards of private organizations. If it is being used in the article of other non-officeholders it should be removed from those too. Will Beback talk 16:58, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
I agree that Republicans are a suitable constituency and the infobox is appropriate as is (I put the infobox back). All party leaders - Democrats, Republicans, etc. in both the general party and auxiliaries use this infobox or the politician infobox. I think the chronological changes Will Beback made are really good - but I think the infobox that was there, including the constituency, was appropriate as well.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 17:14, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello Ts5seeker and Will Beback: I'll try the politician infobox. It should be suitable to this - you're both welcome to give feedback, of course, but I definitely think either infobox is applicable.--
Libertyconsulting (
talk) 17:35, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Will Beback: I honestly feel the opposite is the better question; many articles for partisan organization leaders use the politician or the office-holder infobox. As a reader myself, I feel the politician box also serves the function of allowing the reader to navigate back and forth between others who have held the same post (in this case, there's no article on Lopez-Reyes' predecessor, but I think there should be and I will make the effort to create that when I have the time). I actually don't understand why the generic person infobox would be used in a case for which a type of box has been created, e.g., Mike Tyson's infobox is for boxers, specifically - I don't see why we'd move away from the specificity of what Lopez-Reyes' role is by using a more generic infobox rather than the politician infobox. -- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 18:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Will Beback, I appreciate all your contributions and your experience here. I don't question any of that, but I honestly feel some of the points you raise are just for the sake of debate. I've noticed you work quite heavily on the Republican Liberty Caucus (as have I since I started writing) and (more specifically) that you follow specific writers on Wikipedia (I've seen at least two discussions to that effect - maybe three). In your role here, do you focus on certain things at certain times? I'm asking sincerely since I am relatively new to this myself.
I just get the sense you have a very strong view or personal opinion on a number of things; I don't question your being capable of improving these pages but at times I notice when you have your point of view, there are never two or more people who can disagree with you and feel like the work they did or a choice they made was reasonable. I'm not saying that's the case with this entire article, necessarily; and I am asking with sincerity - but there's something entirely counterintuitive (in my own opinion) about your issue with the infobox: we're talking about a political actor. Somehow we are to take a scale you have in your mind as the determining factor in whether or not this political actor should be edited into a politician infobox or not? Your view is that the "Vice Chair of the RLC is not a particularly significant post," so does this mean if any of us write any new articles on officers elected to similar organizations you will be engaging is in this debate to infinity?
I feel public access to information on who is elected to officer roles and boards on groups such as the Republican Liberty Caucus or the Democratic Liberty Caucus - if such a group exists - is paramount to understanding these organizations. I think these officer roles are important. Why does your view suffice for a decision here but not mine? I'm not implying you have acted on this with respect to this page - but I saw a similar debate between you and another writer on the actual Republican Liberty Caucus page. I have to say I actually see the other writer's point but you had your way and edited the page the way you saw fit, period.
I don't think anyone here will question your experience. As I say above, I've noticed other discussions you've participated in and I see a similar pattern (I think sometimes it borders on going too far when others don't see things your way: your editing can get quite heavy-handed. I say that with a great deal of respect for you - but I see a potential for problems here).
Simply stated: you can't compare a PTA to a national organization - this is an organization that was once chaired by a sitting congressman, who is currently running for president; I don't think it's quite fair that people who invest their free time to help write these items out have to explain details like this. I'm frankly disheartened by this because it seems some of the points you raise just waste considerable time unnecessarily. If you don't feel a national organization is worth a Wikipedia entry, can't you simply skip it and work on pages you are more keenly interested in? I digress.
Some examples:
Regarding your view on the significance of the post (of officers or Board members in similar organizations):
Regarding use of the politician box:
To answer your question more directly: would use the infobox for a PTA member? If this PTA was a national organization that was at one point chaired by a sitting congressman who is running for president and that exercises muscle in the form of a PAC, sure. What you are comparing, however, are apples and oranges. I think it may be a matter of what subjects one is interested in helping write on Wikipedia. I may be learning Wikipedia but feel seasoned enough to discern the relevance of some things and know there are others that agree: Ts5seeker? This is supposed to be informative and it's supposed to add knowledge and resources. I can offer more examples of the items above - but I honestly feel the point is well-made: you can't compare a national organization and its officers to a local PTA. That's absurd.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:05, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
I want to emphasize Will Beback, that I say this with the greatest respect in the world for the work you've done here, which I imagine is quite ample. I just feel I speak for more than myself here in that we're all trying to contribute resources to Wikipedia - I just feel quite strongly that it's unfair to compare a PTA to a national organization. It's a distraction from actually improving the accuracy of the article (articles related to the organization) - a process which includes choosing the specificity of infoboxes as carefully as you advocate yourself. I can't wrap my head around the idea that the politician infobox is inadequate here.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:19, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I'm new around here so please don't bite. I have noticed that changes to edits that don't make sense are reverted, just like that (Constituency - Will Beback). Isn't editing Wikipedia meant to be regulated by Wikipedia policy? Explanations will be appreciated. -- Ts5seeker ( talk) 17:03, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Will Beback: I disagree with something you've edited out several times - the RLC website. Any of the officers elected to roles in the RLC are elected to represent the organization. The organization's website is just as legitimate to list, in my view, as their own because that is the entity they represent. I'm not going to bother with that - but my guess is someone else will replace that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Libertyconsulting ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
There are many, many articles out there where my view is clearly supported: an officer for an organization represents that organization. The content of that website reflects their work too. If the national vice chair didn't have his own website, no one would question this. Yes, I can find many examples of this too. I didn't think something as silly as this would come up. The preponderance of articles that reflect my view is sufficient evidence. Here's a random one that I used before: the current Chairman of the Republican National Committee.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:09, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Virtually all of the sources, and even the subject's personal website, call him "Ed Lopez". WP:NC says that articles should be titled with the most common name. Is there any reason why we shouldn't move the article to Ed Lopez? Will Beback talk 19:42, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
It seems linking to Ed Lopez would make sense. But it seems clear the full name is Lopez-reyes.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:10, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
OK - sounds good.-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:29, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Where can we find a photo for this page?-- Libertyconsulting ( talk) 21:32, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Hey Folks - my original name was "banned" because I sounded like a "group" of people. Rest assured, it's me, myself, and I alone. Libertyconsulting (as in one who can consult for the cause of liberty and freedom) is now the "Libertydude." Any talk about the Lopez-Reyes (Lopez) page, the Liberty Republicans, etc... feel free to drop me a line. I'd like to continue working with you (Will Beback and Ts5seeker, etc.). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Libertydude ( talk • contribs) 01:49, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ed Lopez. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:02, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi,
I just took a quick look at this article and I have two thoughts:
I would be happy to go ahead and make some edits - and see if there is notable content for him. It would be far better, too, to have a smaller, targeted article than one with a lot of filler. Thoughts about that?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 20:04, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
In response to your comments, Grant18650602, if there are some things in external links that could be used to augment what is in the article, it would be better to create a "Further reading" section, formatted as citations. I'll go back and look at the list again.
I am lost about why NewsMax is not considered a reliable, credible source - so we shouldn't have an article about it. .– CaroleHenson ( talk) 22:34, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
I have not heard of this site until today, would it qualify as a better source than this existing source in the article?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 22:57, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
David Gerard, Do you have any thoughts about what needs to be done to resolve the notability tag?
The article was nominated for deletion in 2016 and the decision was to keep, which of course can be revisited. I think you were the one that added the tag, and I just wanted to check your thoughts about it.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 16:56, 20 April 2021 (UTC)