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If this guy was killing people in wisconsin,why did they name the movie TEXAS chainsaw massacure when it didn't happen in Texas?????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.144.98.120 ( talk) 02:09, 5 October 2003 (UTC)
i think one of the members of marilyn mansons band was nicknamed gidget gein, after this guy. Most of the members of the band have nicknames like that. Made up from the name of a famous woman and a serial killer. Irresponsible 16:58, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
So?
I think this article is not NPOV enough. The article implies that Ed Gein's murderous behavior can be attributed to family and environmental problems. There is plenty of evidence that contradicts this viewpoint, including the belief that Ed Gein was a sociopath. The cause of sociopathy is unknown, so i believe that the implicit viewpoint of this article should be neutralized. king 22:53, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Please rewrite this article, somebody seems to have defaced it.
I don't know if this is true, but I heard somewhere that Gein's mother (Augusta) would frequently go into the shack to do business. She would strictly tell her boys to not open the door and look inside. One day Eddie peeked in and saw his mom having intercourse with an animal. After that he became really upset with her and thats when he started rejecting his mother's views. I don't know if this is true. Could someone look it up?
Sounds more like it was his older brother who witnessed it since he later criticized his mother while Ed always loved her but I've found no source for this.
first paragraph under childhood, last sentence - he often liked to dance the jig? sounds like vandalism. And he liked it elbow deep during cavity searches.
this seems like pure speculation. does anyone have a source that would back this up?-- Alhutch 18:04, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
The link to the Rotten.com article should be removed or, alternately, the article needs revision. The rotten bio directly contradicts some of the info listed in the main article, i.e.: cause of Augusta's death (cancer vs. stroke) and Gein's eventual sentencing (not guilty by reason of insanity vs. sentenced to life in prison). Additionally, the Rotten.com article claims that Augusta encouraged her sons to masturbate, whereas this article claims she punished Ed for the same act.
I'd clean this up myself, but frankly i have no idea which of the two (if either) competing accounts is correct. Just thought i'd mention it.
As an aside, i never thought my first contribution to Wikipedia would be around Ed Gein's bio, but there you go.
The first full paragraph after the list of items found in Gein's home contains a cited quote. It says that Gein committed insane transvestite acts (or something to that effect). When one checks the citation, the author of cited article was in fact referring to a fictional character loosely based on Gein, not Gein himself.
A lot of this article isn't very well written. For instance: Despite her deep contempt for George, the atrophic marriage persisted. With its roots in Evangelicalism, divorce was not an option. This could be said a lot more straightforwardly.
The general tone isn't very encyclopedic; it sounds more like a narrative than an article. Someone should probably do some cleanup on this. (Not me! ^_^)
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/serial-killers/ed-gein/
it equals a tran. grazon 01:09, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
* severed heads acting as bedposts in the bedroom; * skin used to make lampshades and chair seats; * skullcaps made into soup bowls; * a human heart (it is disputed where the heart was found; the deputies' reports all claim that the heart was in a saucepan on the stove, with some crime scene photographers claiming it was in a paper bag); * a face mask made out of real face skin found in a paper bag; * a necklace of human lips; * a waistcoat made up of a vagina and breasts; and * other items fashioned from the parts of human bodies including a belt fashioned from nipples.
All articles on the internet seem to mention these things but no one really has proof or more details, help?
Don't you think the first line under "Childhood" caption is partially incorrect? What was Ed's father's name?
The article states that, while Geins house was full of human remains, Gein himself said that they were primarily from (relatively fresh) graves he robbed, not from people he killed, and that he has only been definitively linked to the deaths of two people. Wouldn't grave robbery on the scale required to get all the body party described have been pretty obvious? Was it confirmed that there were lots of bodies missing from the local cemetary? -- Jfruh ( talk) 14:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Gein stated, if I read correctly in another source, that he chose fresh graves, dug up the remains, and reburied the coffins. No one could tell the difference.
I was reading from one of the books about gein, and noticed this was not written anywhere on this page. he read about Ilsa Koch, wife of a nazi death camp leader, and how she used the skin of others in order to 'please herself'. specificallly organs frozen over in fermaldehyde, as well as making book bindings out of human skin. this might be a possible reaosn for his skin-crafting.
just a thought.----
I believe the reasoning for his actions may have a lot to do with the way he was raised and his upbringing. According to this document his mother did not speak very well of women and sexual acts. Discovering sex is normal for any young child and as it states his mother poured scoulding water on him when finding him exploring his sexual nature. Parents who tend to interfere with natural findings do corrupt their child in some ways. Because of his mothers harsh ways in talking about the female sex obviously he grew up thinking it was okay to kill off any woman because in her words "their evil and whores". I base his actions mostly on his mothers teachings.
A link provided at the bottom of the artical as a reference states the following: "On July 26, 1984, he died after a long bout with cancer. He was buried in Plainfield cemetery next to his mother, not far from the graves that he had robbed years earlier" The Wiki article states that he died of respitatory issues. This is a blatant contradiction. I will fix it now. \
Under the title of DEATH the sentence "this was too good for such an evil man so showuld have been tourtured to an inch of his life." is obvious vandalism and should be deleted.
You guys should clean up the plagarism found in certain areas of the article. For example, you guys say "not far from the graves that he had robbed years earlier". This phrase is also relayed in the Crime Library article cited under External Links. Clean this up! -Marty
How is his last name pronounced? Does it rhyme with "bean", "pain", "pine", or something else? — An gr 22:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I have heard it pronounced like "Bean."
68.116.143.113
15:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
It is a German name and thus should rhyme with 'Wine'. - Hesselius
According to Harold Schechter's book Deviant, his name is pronounced to rhyme with "fiend".
Caligulathegod
05:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
The article refers to a book by Harold Schechter, titled Deviant. This word "deviant" wasn't wikilinked, so I did that. It directs to an article that describes the meaning of the word, but I will create a 'disambig' page and start an article about Schechter's book as well. There is a lot of printed material out there, and a lot on the Internet, about Ed Gein and what he did. Anyone with some free time could do some research and really fix up the article. I'll work on it when I can. As sick as this guy was, he serves as the inspiration for a lot of fictional book and movie characters, a lot of rock bands and songs, etc. He will likely continue to have a 'cult' following for generations. Hurrmic 17:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Surely, the book American Psycho by Brett Easton Ellis, rather than the film, should be referenced for the mistaken quote. As it originally appeared in there, verbatim.
This section tends to get way too much unsourced or non-noteable junk in it. I am removing such anytime it shows up. If you want to add something, it better be properly cited or sourced and should also be have direct relevance to Ed Gein, not just any killer who had issues with his mom or dismembered someone. -- Patrick Berry 13:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
It was never proven and he never admitted to commit cannibalism. Also according to a National Geographic documentary, Leatherface is based on Ed Gein. 194.46.245.210 18:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I thought you have to kill at least 3 people to be a serial killer. Gein murdered only two. ... Gein may have committed more murders. He is hence an alleged serial killer.
The FBI classifies serial killers as someone who murders three or more people with a period of time between each murder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.19.47 ( talk) 04:25, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Gein actually appears in Revenge of the Prowler#3 in a back-up where he encounters the Prowler during an investigation. The Prowler does not suspect Gein, as he is not investigating one of his crimes.
In the Texas Chainsaw Massacre: Cut! one-shot from Wildstorm, Gein is elliptically referred to, since some tourists are mentioned as looking for the house of some "psycho" in Wisconsin only to find out that it burned down.
Enda80Enda80
I am perplexed by the following inclusion:
I have read some material on Gein, and have never read that Gein had been physically castrated by his mother. The source provided for this claim leads nowhere. I am curious if this is truthful information? ExRat 00:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I've read this too, it's from a good book. The castration part seems tacked on, though. Ed said he didn't have sex with corpses because "They smelt too bad" not "Because I don't have a penis".
Gatesofawesome!
16:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Castration also means removal of the testicles, not the penis. Suffor —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suffor ( talk • contribs) 04:25, August 29, 2007 (UTC)
I apologize ahead of time if this is not the appropriate place for this question. I am the webmaster for PainAndPaintings (a website that offers serial killer bios, trivia, interviews, artwork, etc). This website does not sell anything or have ads on it. Therefore, I was wondering why this link: [SPAM LINK REMOVED] was removed from this article. Any clarification on why this happened and how I can go about resolving the problem would be a great help.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Killercalendar ( talk • contribs)
A NEW LINK SO YOU HAVE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE CASE OF ED GEIN MORE COMPLETELY AND SAFE! ED GEIN BIOGRAPHY WITH BACKGROUND INFORMATION
THANK YOU.anne —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psycho emily ( talk • contribs) 22:36, July 17, 2007 (UTC)
You guys got to recheck the stuff. I found "*A collection of Harry Potter" in the arrest section, but I deleted it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrZhuKeeper ( talk • contribs) 23:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
This article has been repeatedly vandalized. I will attempt to help clean up the most obvious false edits but it is in need of an expert to review it at this point and make corrections. I recommend it be locked for this reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthm76 ( talk • contribs) 00:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
He was a weird type alright, but did he technically qualify as a necrophiliac? I thought from reading the article he was just interested generally in the dead, but didn't get anything sexual out of the whole affair. TIME magazine refuted the claim too, but I'll have to dig around for a cite for that. Alastairward ( talk) 00:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Just wondering, why is Gein referred to as "Eddie" several times in the article? This is unprofessional, I assumed it was vandalism at first, but even now, several weeks after I first noticed, "Eddie" is present in the "Death of family members" section many times.
I believe he be referred to as either "Ed" or "Gein", but not "Eddie". Can I fix this? GSMR ( talk) 20:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Can we please remove the picture standing of Ed Gein right now? It seems relatively unknown and I could provide a much better one of him right after his arrest. Also, is it alright to add pictures from the crime scene, or would it be too grisly for wiki standards? Crazyconan ( talk) 05:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
There seems to be more material from the Crime Library page in the "Deaths of family members" section.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/gein/2b.html
In fact, rather large parts appear to have been lifted directly, though occasionally a sentence is missing or slightly different. Tabethah ( talk) 16:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Somebody appears to have vandalised sections of this entry. Could an administrator please take a look and revert? Thanks.
The text of this article is very close to that found at TruTV.com. I noticed that childhood and family deaths section of WP's article is very similar to the second page of the TruTV article [1].
Seems to me a pretty clear case of copyright violation. Perhaps someone can rewrite the offending material? Phiwum ( talk) 03:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Where did the Gein house stand? The address must be out there somewhere. Considering all the things that went on there, it would be bizarre if it weren't mentioned somewhere. -- RyanTee82 ( talk) 07:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
NOTE: Creating sockpuppet accounts, or posting from your IP address without logging in, in order to create the illusion of a conversation between the two, is absolutely forbidden. This is more obvious when an IP account posts support on an article that is generally non-controversial after a newly registered account attempts to force changes. It is a practice which essentially falsely creates the appearance of support when none is present otherwise. If an WP:SSP case is made because of this, both the IP account and the registered name account will be blocked from editing. Do not engage in this practice in order to bolster your appearance. LaVidaLoca ( talk) 04:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Excuse me?! You seem to think that because two people have the same opinion they must be sock puppets. Well, it just ain't so, smartie. Stay away from my User and Talk pages or I'll report you for minding everybody else's business. You're not scaring me away from this article by slapping sock puppet warnings around. Accept the fact that sometimes two people have the same opinion. Tre=poi ( talk) 04:50, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone have any objection to upgrading this article from its present C level to a B level? At C level, the article has a sensational tone and a VERY unencyclopedic style. I tried valiantly to upgrade the entire article only to be completely reverted by a know it all who makes claims he is thee assessor of crime articles. No wonder so many professionals scorn this site. Tre=poi ( talk) 13:56, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
I've rewritten the deaths of the family section and submit it now for your consideration. Please reply within the week.
I note that this is twice you have set a deadline for someone to respond to your posts. On Wikipedia, there is no deadline, thus setting one is contrary to practice. Personally, I see that you are posting to make changes contrary to consensus, which is a huge problem. LaVidaLoca ( talk) 10:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
This article needs a lot of work. There are a lot of sentences that are awkwardly written, the flow is poor, and overall it appears very amateurish. The tone is also very sensationalistic, with references from poor quality sources. Recent edits by Tre=poi were a step in the right direction, but they were reverted by someone acting as an owner of the article. This article could be greatly improved if some editors would allow it. -- Sift& Winnow 06:54, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
(Outdent) I was just coming here to check for a response and boy is there. I'm sorry it came down to this kind of behavior. Wildhartlivie and I have tried to explain what has happened here with consensus and also to point out that we are to talk about content not editors. I go to the history of the article and instead of taking it slow and possibly discussing big changes you just went ahead and did it. I really don't like the templating throughout, what is that all about other than to make your point? The citations are at the end like they are supposed to be, not in the middle and not every three words. The citation templates are going to be reverted as they are mostly not needed. Please revert them yourself. I am saddened by the hidden remarks also. Did you think we wouldn't notice? Please try to be civil and remember that we are all supposed to work together. I have to agree with Wildhartlivie, my assume good faith is disappearing.-- CrohnieGal Talk 19:51, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Judge Robert H. Gollmar, Edward Gein , Pinnacle Books, (c)1981 Cas. Hallberg and Co., Inc. Introduction by George W Arndt, MD, Fellow APA. Gollmar handled the 1968 murder trial of Ed Gein and wrote this book about the case. Naaman Brown ( talk) 23:38, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
"Circa" should not be spelled out. It's abbreviated according to MOS. Tre=poi ( talk) 07:34, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone have a problem with the gravemarker image going in the "Death" section as opposed to the "Aftermath" section. It seems like a more logical place to me.-- Rockfang ( talk) 19:43, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Am I the only person who seems to notice that this article is ridiculously overlinked, judging by the guidelines of WP:CONTEXT? Links to things barely relevant to the topic exist everywhere in this article, just take a look at it to see for yourself. I'm too lazy to fix it all myself, but just letting you all know that it probably SHOULD be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.49.132 ( talk) 05:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree this article has mild overlinking, but that's not all bad. Many newspapers state credible information worth linking to, especially for new developments, but those pages often expire after only a few weeks. Having multiple, even redundant, links makes it more likely that one good link will survive. Topics like this are covered by questionable web sites and print media, but then the topic itself is bizarre so the articles may actually be correct. Increasing the number of independent sources helps to sort out which case it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brookfield53045 ( talk • contribs) 04:18, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
There was an argument about this, I believe. FWIW, if a person hasn't been convicted of 3 or more murders? he/she's not a serial killer. GoodDay ( talk) 21:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Well then, ya'll better get a reliable source that defines a serial killer, if ya'll want a solution. GoodDay ( talk) 23:06, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
According to Judge Gollmar, Gein confessed only to the two murders for which he was confronted with physical evidence. He was later tried and convicted only for the murder with the best evidence. He was suspected of killing his brother Henry. He was a suspect in the disappearance of two men from Chicago according to deputy Dan Chase (Ben Belter said Gein said he knew where the body of "Travis" was). Gein was a suspect in the disappearances of Evelyn Hartley of La Crosse WI and Mary Jane Weckler of Jefferson WI. Gein's body part trophies did not always match the age of his known grave robbery "victims" either. By legal definition, the confessed murders of Bernice Worden and Mary Hogan (with only one conviction) may not class Gein as a "serial killer" but in the popular imagination he is the first and most bizarre serial killer most people ever heard about, which is what makes Gein notable. Naaman Brown ( talk) 15:56, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
- "The lie detector tests of Edward Gein have now been completed, and after consultation with the several interested district attorneys, we are able at this time to state that the results of the tests referred to eliminate the subject, Edward Gein, 51 years of age, as the person responsible for and/or involved in the disappearance of Evelyn Hartley in La Crosse County on Oct. 24, 1953; the disappearance of Georgia Jean Weckler in Jefferson County May 1, 1947, and Victor Tavis in Adams County Nov. 1, 1952.
- "Mr. Gein has now admitted that he is responsible for the death of Mary Hogan in Portage County on Dec. 8, 1954 and Bernice Worden in Waushara County Nov. 16, 1957.
- "The release, jointly concurred in by the interested local officials is being made to eliminate Mr. Gein from unnecessary suspicion and conjecture.
- Lichtie, who was a member of the La Crosse Police Department at the time of the Hartley abduction, recalls that two detectives were sent to Plainfield, where they were able to substantiate that Gein was not in La Crosse on the night the teen-ager disappeared, although they learned that Gein did have a relative here.
Ed Gein was a proven serial grave robber who confessed to two murders and was tried and convicted on the one with best evidence, guilty but insane. We had a guy tried for three murders recently, but that did not make him a serial killer (he killed for drugs or money to buy drugs). What makes a serial killer is the motivation of the killer--a psychosexual quirk or power tripping ego; that was the motivation of Gein's grave robberies so in that sense he had a lot in common with what we call today serial killers. Perhaps he had graduated from serial grave robbery to serial killing but was stopped early in his new career. Also we have had over 50 years of folklore, urban myth and sensationalism to cloud the record. Naaman Brown ( talk) 22:27, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
"Serial Killer" in the popular mind seems to be reserved for multiple killers with a psycho motivation. The Mafia hitman Sammy the Bull is not popularly thought of as a serial killer: Ted Bundy is thought of as a serial killer. The definition of serial killer is almost in the state of that famous SCOTUS definition of pornography--I can't define it but I know it when I see it. Naaman Brown ( talk) 11:16, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
The judge in the Gein case has written: "Due to prohibitive costs, Gein was tried for only one murder--that of Mrs. Worden."--Robert H. Gollmar, Edward Gein, Pinnacle Books, 1981, page 81. They found Mary Hogan's head in his house, but only tried him for the murder of Worden. I would like to mention that in my hometown we had a guy convicted of murder who was also a suspect in two other murders. A life sentence on the one with best evidence was sufficient. Some jurisdictions just don't have unlimited resources, which may have been the case with Ed Gein in rural Wisconsin. Naaman Brown ( talk) 18:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Classing serial killers by number of convictions is faulty. British serial killer Dennis Nilsen gave details of fifteen murders and several attempted murders. At trial he was convicted in six of those murders; trying him for all fifteen would have been redundant and a waste of prosecutorial resources. Again, most of the body parts at Ed Gein's house were obtained by grave robbery, and only two sets of parts were traced to persons who were alive when they met Gein. Conviction of Gein on one murder was sufficient to take him out of circulation, and that appears to be the case in a number of both multiple murderers and serial killers. Naaman Brown ( talk) 14:59, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
There has been vandalism by unnamed IP accounts (see History: recently most edits by a named account is reverting silly vandalism by IP accounts); is it too early to propose protecting the page from IP editors? Naaman Brown ( talk) 21:17, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Support for much of the paragraph referring to Sheriff Schley simply cannot be found in the cited source, and if it cannot be verified, amounts to libel. This is the original paragraph:
Waushara County sheriff Art Schley allegedly physically assaulted Gein during questioning, by banging Gein's head and face into a brick wall, causing Gein's initial confession to be ruled inadmissible. Schley died of a heart attack in December 1968, at age 43, only a month after testifying at Gein's trial. Many who knew him said he was traumatized by the horror of Gein's crime and that this, along with the fear of having to testify (especially about assaulting Gein), led to his early death. One of his friends said "He was a victim of Ed Gein as surely as if he had butchered him."
The only mention of the assault is on p. 83 of the cited source (Schechter), where it states:
He grabbed the fifty-one-year-old bachelor by the shoulders and started slamming him up against the wall of the jail
Nowhere does it state that he slammed Gein's head and face into the wall. Nowhere does it state that it was a brick wall. Nowhere does it say that it was during questioning (it wasn't). I have gone through the book page by page, and nowhere does it state that Gein's admission was ruled inadmissible. In fact, Gein didn't confess at the time of the incident, but a day and a half later to the DA (not Schley) and both a few days and a couple weeks later to State Crime Lab investigators.
The information on Schley's death is also not to be found in the source cited. Schechter states:
In March 1968, just months before the trial was to begin, Schley-by then one of Waushara's most prominent citizens, the owner of numerous lakefront properties in the area and the head of the county highway commission-suffered a fatal heart attack, following a Friday-night fish fry with his wife and some friends.
Not only is his time of death in error in the article, but the statement, "He was a victim of Ed Gein as surely as if he had butchered him." is nowhere to be found in Schechter.
Verifiability is one of the cornerstones of WP. Therefore, I am removing the material from the paragraph in question that is transparently inaccurate or that cannot be verified, leaving the following:
Waushara County sheriff Art Schley allegedly physically assaulted Gein by slamming him into a wall. Schley died of a heart attack in December 1968, at age 43, several months before Gein's trial. Many who knew him said he was traumatized by the horror of Gein's crime and that this, along with the fear of having to testify, led to his early death.
If the fact that Gein's confession was ruled inadmissible as a result of Schley's acts can be supported by a credible, reliable source, then it can be put back in the article. -- Sift& Winnow 21:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
The judge who handled the 1968 trial of Ed Gein, Robert H. Gollmar, published a book "Edward Gein" about the case in 1981. "Section 2 Gein's Confession" testimony by deputies Chase, Spees and Murty described sheriff Schley's interrogation of Gein 2:00am 17 Nov 1957. In 1968, Chase testified Schley "grabbed him, whirled him around, and shoved him up against the wall." Chase stated "I believe it's a concrete wall." Spees testified he saw Schley "take him by the shoulders like that and cram him up against the side of the building." Murty described Schley "shoved him against the wall--brick wall." The deputies were alarmed enough to pull Schley away from Gein. The testimony describes Schley grabbing Gein, shoving him against the wall once, and the deputies seperating them. Judge Gollmar wrote: "In spite of the third degree treatment, Gein did not confess that night. Later, because of this occurence in the jail and the testimony of psychiatrists, I suppressed the confession Gein made to Joe Wilimovsky of the Wisconsin crime lab. That Sherrif Schley's conduct was greatly regretted by Schley himself was established by many of his acquaintances. Shortly before Gein's trial in 1968, Schley died of a heart attack. There were those in Waushara County who believed that worry over his being subpoenaed to testify hastened his death." (Gollmar page 34.) Naaman Brown ( talk) 14:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
- "(l) Gein had not been properly advised of his legal rights;
- (2) he was "brutally" attacked by Waushara County Sheriff Arthur Schley during the interrogation;
- (3) Gein was interrogated for an unreasonable length of time; and
- (4) Gein was mentally ill at the tlme."
Judge Gollmar described Gein's confession as several hundred pages of transcript of taped questioning by Joe Wilimovsky with Dr. Ganser present during part of the questioning. Gein was questioned at Waushara County jail, at Wautoma County jail with Wilimovsky of the state crime lab, at the crime lab at Madison (where Gein requested a polygraph: "It will show my mental unbalance") and at Dane County jail. On a lot of things he appeared to exhibit suggestibility, but his answers were weasel-worded and led the questioner around the subject often without a clear answer. Gein readily admitted to things for which there was overwelming physical evidence and went into detail about his grave robberies. On the murders, however, he was evasive. Gein claimed the shooting of Worden was an accident (which begs the question of why he took her body home and butchered it). In between all this, Gein had been taken to see Mrs. Worden's body and had been taken to Mary Hogan's tavern, scene of the 1954 slaying.
There were several problems with the confession. Schley losing his temper and slamming Gein against the wall was probably the least (that appears to have been after arrest but pre-questioning).
The prolonged questioning may have violated even 1957 standards of legal protection of suspect's rights. While Gein may have prolonged the questioning giving either many evasive answers or other answers that appear to be designed to please the questioner (who recognized those for what they were and re-questioned him on those points), it was done in overly long stretches. And Gein was either crazy or wanted to be thought of as crazy: Judge Gollmar was undecided whether Gein was insane or clever at faking unsanity.
The confession was overly long at hundreds of pages, short of solid content, and tainted. Gollmar was probably right in suppressing it. Gein was convicted without it. There was plenty of untainted evidence. Naaman Brown ( talk) 17:22, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
The article has Ed Gein being born in La Crosse County, Wisconsin with a citation but the infobox has him being born in Vernon County, Wisconsin. This is confusing-Thank you- RFD ( talk) 20:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Currently this page shows Madison, WI right under his birth in the infobox. I will change that to La Crosse County per the citation. In verifying on ancestry.com, I found George & Auguste located in La Crosse by the 1905 Wisconsin State Census. However someone has their marriage in 1900 listed as occurring in Vernon County, so maybe this is where the confusion on the pro Vernon County side arises. NeilCoughlin ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:00, 12 December 2010 (UTC).
What would the Wiki consensus be of a set of previously-unpresented facts that would point directly to possible motivation of Augusta Gein's behavior?? Pertinent here? WQ59B ( talk) 01:13, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Augusta Wilhelmine Lehrke and George Philip Gein were married 12-11-1900 (another source says 12-6-1900 : this is likely when the marriage license was dated). We know how she particularly railed against women as evil, sinners & whores. Henry George Gein, firstborn son, was born 01-08-1901. In that day & age, esp for a devoutly-religious woman... one has to wonder to what degree this colored her views toward both George her husband and the teachings she gave to her sons. WQ59B ( talk) 23:15, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
The OR issue may be a sticking point; documentation is state records; not published, but 'expert' enough I believe. Will ponder this further- thanks. WQ59B ( talk) 03:26, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm afraid the WP:OR problem will rule out any inclusion of this in the article, especially if you try to speculate that this influenced her mental attitude in any way. If it came from you as a person and not some reliable, published source it cannot be used. And as a general caution from someone who has gone through countless historical records, you risk major embarrassment if you rely too much on transcriptions of birth records. Most of these were handwritten quite sloppily, and the people who entered them into computers varied widely in their ability to both read the records and type the numbers correctly. If you are serious about pursuing this information for use elsewhere I would encourage it, as historic research is always a good thing. DreamGuy ( talk) 18:37, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Since my initial question, I would not attempt to include claims about mental influence. WQ59B ( talk) 03:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Given the proliferation of errors in so many materials dealing with Gein (even Schechter and Woods), I wonder if anyone has ever been given access to records from Central State, Mendota, or the UW examination of all the physical evidence shipped down from Planfield. Any other Geineologists know? Domyo ( talk) 00:58, 18 September 2012 (UTC)Domyo
Citing Court TV Crime Library, the article refers to Gein's reading material as "death cult" and adventure magazines. I recall the story (dimly) in the late 1950s and the sources I saw in 1984 (the year Gein died) referred to lurid detective magazines (true crime stories) and anatomy books. There are useful things in "Court TV Crime Library" but one must remember they are often colored for entertainment value. Naaman Brown ( talk) 21:07, 27 November 2009 (UTC) signed 14:08, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Allan Wilimovsky (state crime lab) who searched the house described a "textbook on medicology" with the book relatively clean except the pages on the head and female genitals. Gollmar, p.24.
Colwell, Central State Hospital, interviewed Gein: "He stated that prior to the first grave robbing incident, he had been reading adventure stories of headhunters and cannibals. He related in detail one story of a man who had murderered a man, acquired his yacht, and was later captured and killed by headhunters. He learned about shrunken heads, death masks, etc., from other similiar stories." Gollmar, p.64.
-- Naaman Brown ( talk) 15:23, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
There is also a song by Mudvayne called Nothing to Gein that is all about this guy. I'm not a good writer but if someone might want to include that?
The first "official murder" for which he was charged occurred on December 8, 1954 and the next on November 16, 1957. He attacked his last victim in her store and dragged her body to his truck, which was parked out back (he later said he was examining the cash register to see how it worked and she thought he was trying to rob her. Enraged at being called a thief, he beat her to death). Later that evening the victim's son, a local deputy sheriff, stopped in at the store to check on his mother and found the doors unlocked, the cash register missing and a trail of blood leading out to the back door. He recalled that he had seen Ed at the store earlier that afternoon. When the police went to his farm, they found her headless body in his shed (they also found the cash register, which had been taken apart, but there was still money in the cash drawer. Apparently Ed was telling the truth when he said all he wanted was to see how it worked). In addition, they found his strange human "furniture" and a refrigerator full of human organs. Gein was arrested and immediately confessed to his crimes. On January 16, 1958, he was judged insane and sent to Central State Hospital at Waupun, WI. In November 1968 he was tried again. He was now diagnosed to have chronic schizophrenia, found "not guilty by reason of insanity" and returned to Waupun. It was later theorized that Gein may have killed two men who hired him as their hunting guide and were never seen again, and two other unidentified women whose body parts were found at his farm. In 1978 he was moved to Mendota Mental Health Institute. Gein was a model prisoner and died quietly in his sleep in the geriatric psychiatric ward. 75.53.88.69 ( talk) 17:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
(Note: You changed around your post so now my comment that follows no longer made sense. Thanks for that. I've edited it in light of the changes so it is easier to understand what I was disagreeing with you about.) Regarding Trivia Being Disallowed: Why is this? It's a huge help to people who research a topic and want to know of significant references to it in culture. Also in the case of "Nothing to Gein" it is one of the links that SHOULD be included given that it is not simply "a band named after the person" but actually a song biographically about the person. Actually a song that is biographically about the subject is much MORE relevant than some band that happened to be named partially after the subject. Yacoub80 ( talk) 16:17, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
In fact, I have not changed anything I posted to this page. I moved the insertions of commentary that you put in the middle of my response, a policy violation I notified you about, to the bottom of the thread where they properly belong, which you acknowledged here. So here's the thing. You're new here. You've made one single contribution to mainspace articles in the project since July 2007, and since, have only made a few talk page posts. [4] This doesn't give you much working knowledge on the policies and guidelines here, nor much insight into discussions which have gone into decisions that resulted in them. I'm not interested in continuing this debate, which will not conclude anything on an individual basis and won't change the guidelines regarding trivia. I'm also not much interested in continuing a conversation with someone who, when approached about inappropriately refactoring other's comments, responded with "go away." If you want to research how many bands have referenced Ed Gein in a song or written a song about him, try Google. I do not have to argue the same arguments that many people argued eons ago about trivia in articles just to satisfy one person and won't do so. It's policy, based on the consensus of a large multitude of editors and it is what will be followed on pages. It isn't just my decision and I don't plan to waste my time trying to explain that to you when you haven't bothered to learn anything about policies, guidelines, procedures and process, much less civility. [5]. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 01:42, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone object to including the song "Nipple Belt" by the SubPop band TAD as pop culture? TAD was also known to sell Ed Gein T-shirts around this time to promote the song. The song is off the bands 1st LP "God's Balls" which was very influential in the early Seattle Grunge movement days: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Balls — Preceding unsigned comment added by Superswade ( talk • contribs) 07:21, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
If this guy was killing people in wisconsin,why did they name the movie TEXAS chainsaw massacure when it didn't happen in Texas?????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.144.98.120 ( talk) 02:09, 5 October 2003 (UTC)
i think one of the members of marilyn mansons band was nicknamed gidget gein, after this guy. Most of the members of the band have nicknames like that. Made up from the name of a famous woman and a serial killer. Irresponsible 16:58, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
So?
I think this article is not NPOV enough. The article implies that Ed Gein's murderous behavior can be attributed to family and environmental problems. There is plenty of evidence that contradicts this viewpoint, including the belief that Ed Gein was a sociopath. The cause of sociopathy is unknown, so i believe that the implicit viewpoint of this article should be neutralized. king 22:53, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Please rewrite this article, somebody seems to have defaced it.
I don't know if this is true, but I heard somewhere that Gein's mother (Augusta) would frequently go into the shack to do business. She would strictly tell her boys to not open the door and look inside. One day Eddie peeked in and saw his mom having intercourse with an animal. After that he became really upset with her and thats when he started rejecting his mother's views. I don't know if this is true. Could someone look it up?
Sounds more like it was his older brother who witnessed it since he later criticized his mother while Ed always loved her but I've found no source for this.
first paragraph under childhood, last sentence - he often liked to dance the jig? sounds like vandalism. And he liked it elbow deep during cavity searches.
this seems like pure speculation. does anyone have a source that would back this up?-- Alhutch 18:04, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
The link to the Rotten.com article should be removed or, alternately, the article needs revision. The rotten bio directly contradicts some of the info listed in the main article, i.e.: cause of Augusta's death (cancer vs. stroke) and Gein's eventual sentencing (not guilty by reason of insanity vs. sentenced to life in prison). Additionally, the Rotten.com article claims that Augusta encouraged her sons to masturbate, whereas this article claims she punished Ed for the same act.
I'd clean this up myself, but frankly i have no idea which of the two (if either) competing accounts is correct. Just thought i'd mention it.
As an aside, i never thought my first contribution to Wikipedia would be around Ed Gein's bio, but there you go.
The first full paragraph after the list of items found in Gein's home contains a cited quote. It says that Gein committed insane transvestite acts (or something to that effect). When one checks the citation, the author of cited article was in fact referring to a fictional character loosely based on Gein, not Gein himself.
A lot of this article isn't very well written. For instance: Despite her deep contempt for George, the atrophic marriage persisted. With its roots in Evangelicalism, divorce was not an option. This could be said a lot more straightforwardly.
The general tone isn't very encyclopedic; it sounds more like a narrative than an article. Someone should probably do some cleanup on this. (Not me! ^_^)
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/serial-killers/ed-gein/
it equals a tran. grazon 01:09, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
* severed heads acting as bedposts in the bedroom; * skin used to make lampshades and chair seats; * skullcaps made into soup bowls; * a human heart (it is disputed where the heart was found; the deputies' reports all claim that the heart was in a saucepan on the stove, with some crime scene photographers claiming it was in a paper bag); * a face mask made out of real face skin found in a paper bag; * a necklace of human lips; * a waistcoat made up of a vagina and breasts; and * other items fashioned from the parts of human bodies including a belt fashioned from nipples.
All articles on the internet seem to mention these things but no one really has proof or more details, help?
Don't you think the first line under "Childhood" caption is partially incorrect? What was Ed's father's name?
The article states that, while Geins house was full of human remains, Gein himself said that they were primarily from (relatively fresh) graves he robbed, not from people he killed, and that he has only been definitively linked to the deaths of two people. Wouldn't grave robbery on the scale required to get all the body party described have been pretty obvious? Was it confirmed that there were lots of bodies missing from the local cemetary? -- Jfruh ( talk) 14:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Gein stated, if I read correctly in another source, that he chose fresh graves, dug up the remains, and reburied the coffins. No one could tell the difference.
I was reading from one of the books about gein, and noticed this was not written anywhere on this page. he read about Ilsa Koch, wife of a nazi death camp leader, and how she used the skin of others in order to 'please herself'. specificallly organs frozen over in fermaldehyde, as well as making book bindings out of human skin. this might be a possible reaosn for his skin-crafting.
just a thought.----
I believe the reasoning for his actions may have a lot to do with the way he was raised and his upbringing. According to this document his mother did not speak very well of women and sexual acts. Discovering sex is normal for any young child and as it states his mother poured scoulding water on him when finding him exploring his sexual nature. Parents who tend to interfere with natural findings do corrupt their child in some ways. Because of his mothers harsh ways in talking about the female sex obviously he grew up thinking it was okay to kill off any woman because in her words "their evil and whores". I base his actions mostly on his mothers teachings.
A link provided at the bottom of the artical as a reference states the following: "On July 26, 1984, he died after a long bout with cancer. He was buried in Plainfield cemetery next to his mother, not far from the graves that he had robbed years earlier" The Wiki article states that he died of respitatory issues. This is a blatant contradiction. I will fix it now. \
Under the title of DEATH the sentence "this was too good for such an evil man so showuld have been tourtured to an inch of his life." is obvious vandalism and should be deleted.
You guys should clean up the plagarism found in certain areas of the article. For example, you guys say "not far from the graves that he had robbed years earlier". This phrase is also relayed in the Crime Library article cited under External Links. Clean this up! -Marty
How is his last name pronounced? Does it rhyme with "bean", "pain", "pine", or something else? — An gr 22:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I have heard it pronounced like "Bean."
68.116.143.113
15:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
It is a German name and thus should rhyme with 'Wine'. - Hesselius
According to Harold Schechter's book Deviant, his name is pronounced to rhyme with "fiend".
Caligulathegod
05:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
The article refers to a book by Harold Schechter, titled Deviant. This word "deviant" wasn't wikilinked, so I did that. It directs to an article that describes the meaning of the word, but I will create a 'disambig' page and start an article about Schechter's book as well. There is a lot of printed material out there, and a lot on the Internet, about Ed Gein and what he did. Anyone with some free time could do some research and really fix up the article. I'll work on it when I can. As sick as this guy was, he serves as the inspiration for a lot of fictional book and movie characters, a lot of rock bands and songs, etc. He will likely continue to have a 'cult' following for generations. Hurrmic 17:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Surely, the book American Psycho by Brett Easton Ellis, rather than the film, should be referenced for the mistaken quote. As it originally appeared in there, verbatim.
This section tends to get way too much unsourced or non-noteable junk in it. I am removing such anytime it shows up. If you want to add something, it better be properly cited or sourced and should also be have direct relevance to Ed Gein, not just any killer who had issues with his mom or dismembered someone. -- Patrick Berry 13:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
It was never proven and he never admitted to commit cannibalism. Also according to a National Geographic documentary, Leatherface is based on Ed Gein. 194.46.245.210 18:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I thought you have to kill at least 3 people to be a serial killer. Gein murdered only two. ... Gein may have committed more murders. He is hence an alleged serial killer.
The FBI classifies serial killers as someone who murders three or more people with a period of time between each murder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.19.47 ( talk) 04:25, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Gein actually appears in Revenge of the Prowler#3 in a back-up where he encounters the Prowler during an investigation. The Prowler does not suspect Gein, as he is not investigating one of his crimes.
In the Texas Chainsaw Massacre: Cut! one-shot from Wildstorm, Gein is elliptically referred to, since some tourists are mentioned as looking for the house of some "psycho" in Wisconsin only to find out that it burned down.
Enda80Enda80
I am perplexed by the following inclusion:
I have read some material on Gein, and have never read that Gein had been physically castrated by his mother. The source provided for this claim leads nowhere. I am curious if this is truthful information? ExRat 00:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I've read this too, it's from a good book. The castration part seems tacked on, though. Ed said he didn't have sex with corpses because "They smelt too bad" not "Because I don't have a penis".
Gatesofawesome!
16:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Castration also means removal of the testicles, not the penis. Suffor —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suffor ( talk • contribs) 04:25, August 29, 2007 (UTC)
I apologize ahead of time if this is not the appropriate place for this question. I am the webmaster for PainAndPaintings (a website that offers serial killer bios, trivia, interviews, artwork, etc). This website does not sell anything or have ads on it. Therefore, I was wondering why this link: [SPAM LINK REMOVED] was removed from this article. Any clarification on why this happened and how I can go about resolving the problem would be a great help.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Killercalendar ( talk • contribs)
A NEW LINK SO YOU HAVE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE CASE OF ED GEIN MORE COMPLETELY AND SAFE! ED GEIN BIOGRAPHY WITH BACKGROUND INFORMATION
THANK YOU.anne —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psycho emily ( talk • contribs) 22:36, July 17, 2007 (UTC)
You guys got to recheck the stuff. I found "*A collection of Harry Potter" in the arrest section, but I deleted it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrZhuKeeper ( talk • contribs) 23:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
This article has been repeatedly vandalized. I will attempt to help clean up the most obvious false edits but it is in need of an expert to review it at this point and make corrections. I recommend it be locked for this reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthm76 ( talk • contribs) 00:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
He was a weird type alright, but did he technically qualify as a necrophiliac? I thought from reading the article he was just interested generally in the dead, but didn't get anything sexual out of the whole affair. TIME magazine refuted the claim too, but I'll have to dig around for a cite for that. Alastairward ( talk) 00:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Just wondering, why is Gein referred to as "Eddie" several times in the article? This is unprofessional, I assumed it was vandalism at first, but even now, several weeks after I first noticed, "Eddie" is present in the "Death of family members" section many times.
I believe he be referred to as either "Ed" or "Gein", but not "Eddie". Can I fix this? GSMR ( talk) 20:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Can we please remove the picture standing of Ed Gein right now? It seems relatively unknown and I could provide a much better one of him right after his arrest. Also, is it alright to add pictures from the crime scene, or would it be too grisly for wiki standards? Crazyconan ( talk) 05:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
There seems to be more material from the Crime Library page in the "Deaths of family members" section.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/gein/2b.html
In fact, rather large parts appear to have been lifted directly, though occasionally a sentence is missing or slightly different. Tabethah ( talk) 16:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Somebody appears to have vandalised sections of this entry. Could an administrator please take a look and revert? Thanks.
The text of this article is very close to that found at TruTV.com. I noticed that childhood and family deaths section of WP's article is very similar to the second page of the TruTV article [1].
Seems to me a pretty clear case of copyright violation. Perhaps someone can rewrite the offending material? Phiwum ( talk) 03:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Where did the Gein house stand? The address must be out there somewhere. Considering all the things that went on there, it would be bizarre if it weren't mentioned somewhere. -- RyanTee82 ( talk) 07:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
NOTE: Creating sockpuppet accounts, or posting from your IP address without logging in, in order to create the illusion of a conversation between the two, is absolutely forbidden. This is more obvious when an IP account posts support on an article that is generally non-controversial after a newly registered account attempts to force changes. It is a practice which essentially falsely creates the appearance of support when none is present otherwise. If an WP:SSP case is made because of this, both the IP account and the registered name account will be blocked from editing. Do not engage in this practice in order to bolster your appearance. LaVidaLoca ( talk) 04:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Excuse me?! You seem to think that because two people have the same opinion they must be sock puppets. Well, it just ain't so, smartie. Stay away from my User and Talk pages or I'll report you for minding everybody else's business. You're not scaring me away from this article by slapping sock puppet warnings around. Accept the fact that sometimes two people have the same opinion. Tre=poi ( talk) 04:50, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone have any objection to upgrading this article from its present C level to a B level? At C level, the article has a sensational tone and a VERY unencyclopedic style. I tried valiantly to upgrade the entire article only to be completely reverted by a know it all who makes claims he is thee assessor of crime articles. No wonder so many professionals scorn this site. Tre=poi ( talk) 13:56, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
I've rewritten the deaths of the family section and submit it now for your consideration. Please reply within the week.
I note that this is twice you have set a deadline for someone to respond to your posts. On Wikipedia, there is no deadline, thus setting one is contrary to practice. Personally, I see that you are posting to make changes contrary to consensus, which is a huge problem. LaVidaLoca ( talk) 10:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
This article needs a lot of work. There are a lot of sentences that are awkwardly written, the flow is poor, and overall it appears very amateurish. The tone is also very sensationalistic, with references from poor quality sources. Recent edits by Tre=poi were a step in the right direction, but they were reverted by someone acting as an owner of the article. This article could be greatly improved if some editors would allow it. -- Sift& Winnow 06:54, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
(Outdent) I was just coming here to check for a response and boy is there. I'm sorry it came down to this kind of behavior. Wildhartlivie and I have tried to explain what has happened here with consensus and also to point out that we are to talk about content not editors. I go to the history of the article and instead of taking it slow and possibly discussing big changes you just went ahead and did it. I really don't like the templating throughout, what is that all about other than to make your point? The citations are at the end like they are supposed to be, not in the middle and not every three words. The citation templates are going to be reverted as they are mostly not needed. Please revert them yourself. I am saddened by the hidden remarks also. Did you think we wouldn't notice? Please try to be civil and remember that we are all supposed to work together. I have to agree with Wildhartlivie, my assume good faith is disappearing.-- CrohnieGal Talk 19:51, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Judge Robert H. Gollmar, Edward Gein , Pinnacle Books, (c)1981 Cas. Hallberg and Co., Inc. Introduction by George W Arndt, MD, Fellow APA. Gollmar handled the 1968 murder trial of Ed Gein and wrote this book about the case. Naaman Brown ( talk) 23:38, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
"Circa" should not be spelled out. It's abbreviated according to MOS. Tre=poi ( talk) 07:34, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone have a problem with the gravemarker image going in the "Death" section as opposed to the "Aftermath" section. It seems like a more logical place to me.-- Rockfang ( talk) 19:43, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Am I the only person who seems to notice that this article is ridiculously overlinked, judging by the guidelines of WP:CONTEXT? Links to things barely relevant to the topic exist everywhere in this article, just take a look at it to see for yourself. I'm too lazy to fix it all myself, but just letting you all know that it probably SHOULD be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.49.132 ( talk) 05:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree this article has mild overlinking, but that's not all bad. Many newspapers state credible information worth linking to, especially for new developments, but those pages often expire after only a few weeks. Having multiple, even redundant, links makes it more likely that one good link will survive. Topics like this are covered by questionable web sites and print media, but then the topic itself is bizarre so the articles may actually be correct. Increasing the number of independent sources helps to sort out which case it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brookfield53045 ( talk • contribs) 04:18, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
There was an argument about this, I believe. FWIW, if a person hasn't been convicted of 3 or more murders? he/she's not a serial killer. GoodDay ( talk) 21:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Well then, ya'll better get a reliable source that defines a serial killer, if ya'll want a solution. GoodDay ( talk) 23:06, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
According to Judge Gollmar, Gein confessed only to the two murders for which he was confronted with physical evidence. He was later tried and convicted only for the murder with the best evidence. He was suspected of killing his brother Henry. He was a suspect in the disappearance of two men from Chicago according to deputy Dan Chase (Ben Belter said Gein said he knew where the body of "Travis" was). Gein was a suspect in the disappearances of Evelyn Hartley of La Crosse WI and Mary Jane Weckler of Jefferson WI. Gein's body part trophies did not always match the age of his known grave robbery "victims" either. By legal definition, the confessed murders of Bernice Worden and Mary Hogan (with only one conviction) may not class Gein as a "serial killer" but in the popular imagination he is the first and most bizarre serial killer most people ever heard about, which is what makes Gein notable. Naaman Brown ( talk) 15:56, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
- "The lie detector tests of Edward Gein have now been completed, and after consultation with the several interested district attorneys, we are able at this time to state that the results of the tests referred to eliminate the subject, Edward Gein, 51 years of age, as the person responsible for and/or involved in the disappearance of Evelyn Hartley in La Crosse County on Oct. 24, 1953; the disappearance of Georgia Jean Weckler in Jefferson County May 1, 1947, and Victor Tavis in Adams County Nov. 1, 1952.
- "Mr. Gein has now admitted that he is responsible for the death of Mary Hogan in Portage County on Dec. 8, 1954 and Bernice Worden in Waushara County Nov. 16, 1957.
- "The release, jointly concurred in by the interested local officials is being made to eliminate Mr. Gein from unnecessary suspicion and conjecture.
- Lichtie, who was a member of the La Crosse Police Department at the time of the Hartley abduction, recalls that two detectives were sent to Plainfield, where they were able to substantiate that Gein was not in La Crosse on the night the teen-ager disappeared, although they learned that Gein did have a relative here.
Ed Gein was a proven serial grave robber who confessed to two murders and was tried and convicted on the one with best evidence, guilty but insane. We had a guy tried for three murders recently, but that did not make him a serial killer (he killed for drugs or money to buy drugs). What makes a serial killer is the motivation of the killer--a psychosexual quirk or power tripping ego; that was the motivation of Gein's grave robberies so in that sense he had a lot in common with what we call today serial killers. Perhaps he had graduated from serial grave robbery to serial killing but was stopped early in his new career. Also we have had over 50 years of folklore, urban myth and sensationalism to cloud the record. Naaman Brown ( talk) 22:27, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
"Serial Killer" in the popular mind seems to be reserved for multiple killers with a psycho motivation. The Mafia hitman Sammy the Bull is not popularly thought of as a serial killer: Ted Bundy is thought of as a serial killer. The definition of serial killer is almost in the state of that famous SCOTUS definition of pornography--I can't define it but I know it when I see it. Naaman Brown ( talk) 11:16, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
The judge in the Gein case has written: "Due to prohibitive costs, Gein was tried for only one murder--that of Mrs. Worden."--Robert H. Gollmar, Edward Gein, Pinnacle Books, 1981, page 81. They found Mary Hogan's head in his house, but only tried him for the murder of Worden. I would like to mention that in my hometown we had a guy convicted of murder who was also a suspect in two other murders. A life sentence on the one with best evidence was sufficient. Some jurisdictions just don't have unlimited resources, which may have been the case with Ed Gein in rural Wisconsin. Naaman Brown ( talk) 18:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Classing serial killers by number of convictions is faulty. British serial killer Dennis Nilsen gave details of fifteen murders and several attempted murders. At trial he was convicted in six of those murders; trying him for all fifteen would have been redundant and a waste of prosecutorial resources. Again, most of the body parts at Ed Gein's house were obtained by grave robbery, and only two sets of parts were traced to persons who were alive when they met Gein. Conviction of Gein on one murder was sufficient to take him out of circulation, and that appears to be the case in a number of both multiple murderers and serial killers. Naaman Brown ( talk) 14:59, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
There has been vandalism by unnamed IP accounts (see History: recently most edits by a named account is reverting silly vandalism by IP accounts); is it too early to propose protecting the page from IP editors? Naaman Brown ( talk) 21:17, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Support for much of the paragraph referring to Sheriff Schley simply cannot be found in the cited source, and if it cannot be verified, amounts to libel. This is the original paragraph:
Waushara County sheriff Art Schley allegedly physically assaulted Gein during questioning, by banging Gein's head and face into a brick wall, causing Gein's initial confession to be ruled inadmissible. Schley died of a heart attack in December 1968, at age 43, only a month after testifying at Gein's trial. Many who knew him said he was traumatized by the horror of Gein's crime and that this, along with the fear of having to testify (especially about assaulting Gein), led to his early death. One of his friends said "He was a victim of Ed Gein as surely as if he had butchered him."
The only mention of the assault is on p. 83 of the cited source (Schechter), where it states:
He grabbed the fifty-one-year-old bachelor by the shoulders and started slamming him up against the wall of the jail
Nowhere does it state that he slammed Gein's head and face into the wall. Nowhere does it state that it was a brick wall. Nowhere does it say that it was during questioning (it wasn't). I have gone through the book page by page, and nowhere does it state that Gein's admission was ruled inadmissible. In fact, Gein didn't confess at the time of the incident, but a day and a half later to the DA (not Schley) and both a few days and a couple weeks later to State Crime Lab investigators.
The information on Schley's death is also not to be found in the source cited. Schechter states:
In March 1968, just months before the trial was to begin, Schley-by then one of Waushara's most prominent citizens, the owner of numerous lakefront properties in the area and the head of the county highway commission-suffered a fatal heart attack, following a Friday-night fish fry with his wife and some friends.
Not only is his time of death in error in the article, but the statement, "He was a victim of Ed Gein as surely as if he had butchered him." is nowhere to be found in Schechter.
Verifiability is one of the cornerstones of WP. Therefore, I am removing the material from the paragraph in question that is transparently inaccurate or that cannot be verified, leaving the following:
Waushara County sheriff Art Schley allegedly physically assaulted Gein by slamming him into a wall. Schley died of a heart attack in December 1968, at age 43, several months before Gein's trial. Many who knew him said he was traumatized by the horror of Gein's crime and that this, along with the fear of having to testify, led to his early death.
If the fact that Gein's confession was ruled inadmissible as a result of Schley's acts can be supported by a credible, reliable source, then it can be put back in the article. -- Sift& Winnow 21:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
The judge who handled the 1968 trial of Ed Gein, Robert H. Gollmar, published a book "Edward Gein" about the case in 1981. "Section 2 Gein's Confession" testimony by deputies Chase, Spees and Murty described sheriff Schley's interrogation of Gein 2:00am 17 Nov 1957. In 1968, Chase testified Schley "grabbed him, whirled him around, and shoved him up against the wall." Chase stated "I believe it's a concrete wall." Spees testified he saw Schley "take him by the shoulders like that and cram him up against the side of the building." Murty described Schley "shoved him against the wall--brick wall." The deputies were alarmed enough to pull Schley away from Gein. The testimony describes Schley grabbing Gein, shoving him against the wall once, and the deputies seperating them. Judge Gollmar wrote: "In spite of the third degree treatment, Gein did not confess that night. Later, because of this occurence in the jail and the testimony of psychiatrists, I suppressed the confession Gein made to Joe Wilimovsky of the Wisconsin crime lab. That Sherrif Schley's conduct was greatly regretted by Schley himself was established by many of his acquaintances. Shortly before Gein's trial in 1968, Schley died of a heart attack. There were those in Waushara County who believed that worry over his being subpoenaed to testify hastened his death." (Gollmar page 34.) Naaman Brown ( talk) 14:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
- "(l) Gein had not been properly advised of his legal rights;
- (2) he was "brutally" attacked by Waushara County Sheriff Arthur Schley during the interrogation;
- (3) Gein was interrogated for an unreasonable length of time; and
- (4) Gein was mentally ill at the tlme."
Judge Gollmar described Gein's confession as several hundred pages of transcript of taped questioning by Joe Wilimovsky with Dr. Ganser present during part of the questioning. Gein was questioned at Waushara County jail, at Wautoma County jail with Wilimovsky of the state crime lab, at the crime lab at Madison (where Gein requested a polygraph: "It will show my mental unbalance") and at Dane County jail. On a lot of things he appeared to exhibit suggestibility, but his answers were weasel-worded and led the questioner around the subject often without a clear answer. Gein readily admitted to things for which there was overwelming physical evidence and went into detail about his grave robberies. On the murders, however, he was evasive. Gein claimed the shooting of Worden was an accident (which begs the question of why he took her body home and butchered it). In between all this, Gein had been taken to see Mrs. Worden's body and had been taken to Mary Hogan's tavern, scene of the 1954 slaying.
There were several problems with the confession. Schley losing his temper and slamming Gein against the wall was probably the least (that appears to have been after arrest but pre-questioning).
The prolonged questioning may have violated even 1957 standards of legal protection of suspect's rights. While Gein may have prolonged the questioning giving either many evasive answers or other answers that appear to be designed to please the questioner (who recognized those for what they were and re-questioned him on those points), it was done in overly long stretches. And Gein was either crazy or wanted to be thought of as crazy: Judge Gollmar was undecided whether Gein was insane or clever at faking unsanity.
The confession was overly long at hundreds of pages, short of solid content, and tainted. Gollmar was probably right in suppressing it. Gein was convicted without it. There was plenty of untainted evidence. Naaman Brown ( talk) 17:22, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
The article has Ed Gein being born in La Crosse County, Wisconsin with a citation but the infobox has him being born in Vernon County, Wisconsin. This is confusing-Thank you- RFD ( talk) 20:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Currently this page shows Madison, WI right under his birth in the infobox. I will change that to La Crosse County per the citation. In verifying on ancestry.com, I found George & Auguste located in La Crosse by the 1905 Wisconsin State Census. However someone has their marriage in 1900 listed as occurring in Vernon County, so maybe this is where the confusion on the pro Vernon County side arises. NeilCoughlin ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:00, 12 December 2010 (UTC).
What would the Wiki consensus be of a set of previously-unpresented facts that would point directly to possible motivation of Augusta Gein's behavior?? Pertinent here? WQ59B ( talk) 01:13, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Augusta Wilhelmine Lehrke and George Philip Gein were married 12-11-1900 (another source says 12-6-1900 : this is likely when the marriage license was dated). We know how she particularly railed against women as evil, sinners & whores. Henry George Gein, firstborn son, was born 01-08-1901. In that day & age, esp for a devoutly-religious woman... one has to wonder to what degree this colored her views toward both George her husband and the teachings she gave to her sons. WQ59B ( talk) 23:15, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
The OR issue may be a sticking point; documentation is state records; not published, but 'expert' enough I believe. Will ponder this further- thanks. WQ59B ( talk) 03:26, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm afraid the WP:OR problem will rule out any inclusion of this in the article, especially if you try to speculate that this influenced her mental attitude in any way. If it came from you as a person and not some reliable, published source it cannot be used. And as a general caution from someone who has gone through countless historical records, you risk major embarrassment if you rely too much on transcriptions of birth records. Most of these were handwritten quite sloppily, and the people who entered them into computers varied widely in their ability to both read the records and type the numbers correctly. If you are serious about pursuing this information for use elsewhere I would encourage it, as historic research is always a good thing. DreamGuy ( talk) 18:37, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Since my initial question, I would not attempt to include claims about mental influence. WQ59B ( talk) 03:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Given the proliferation of errors in so many materials dealing with Gein (even Schechter and Woods), I wonder if anyone has ever been given access to records from Central State, Mendota, or the UW examination of all the physical evidence shipped down from Planfield. Any other Geineologists know? Domyo ( talk) 00:58, 18 September 2012 (UTC)Domyo
Citing Court TV Crime Library, the article refers to Gein's reading material as "death cult" and adventure magazines. I recall the story (dimly) in the late 1950s and the sources I saw in 1984 (the year Gein died) referred to lurid detective magazines (true crime stories) and anatomy books. There are useful things in "Court TV Crime Library" but one must remember they are often colored for entertainment value. Naaman Brown ( talk) 21:07, 27 November 2009 (UTC) signed 14:08, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Allan Wilimovsky (state crime lab) who searched the house described a "textbook on medicology" with the book relatively clean except the pages on the head and female genitals. Gollmar, p.24.
Colwell, Central State Hospital, interviewed Gein: "He stated that prior to the first grave robbing incident, he had been reading adventure stories of headhunters and cannibals. He related in detail one story of a man who had murderered a man, acquired his yacht, and was later captured and killed by headhunters. He learned about shrunken heads, death masks, etc., from other similiar stories." Gollmar, p.64.
-- Naaman Brown ( talk) 15:23, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
There is also a song by Mudvayne called Nothing to Gein that is all about this guy. I'm not a good writer but if someone might want to include that?
The first "official murder" for which he was charged occurred on December 8, 1954 and the next on November 16, 1957. He attacked his last victim in her store and dragged her body to his truck, which was parked out back (he later said he was examining the cash register to see how it worked and she thought he was trying to rob her. Enraged at being called a thief, he beat her to death). Later that evening the victim's son, a local deputy sheriff, stopped in at the store to check on his mother and found the doors unlocked, the cash register missing and a trail of blood leading out to the back door. He recalled that he had seen Ed at the store earlier that afternoon. When the police went to his farm, they found her headless body in his shed (they also found the cash register, which had been taken apart, but there was still money in the cash drawer. Apparently Ed was telling the truth when he said all he wanted was to see how it worked). In addition, they found his strange human "furniture" and a refrigerator full of human organs. Gein was arrested and immediately confessed to his crimes. On January 16, 1958, he was judged insane and sent to Central State Hospital at Waupun, WI. In November 1968 he was tried again. He was now diagnosed to have chronic schizophrenia, found "not guilty by reason of insanity" and returned to Waupun. It was later theorized that Gein may have killed two men who hired him as their hunting guide and were never seen again, and two other unidentified women whose body parts were found at his farm. In 1978 he was moved to Mendota Mental Health Institute. Gein was a model prisoner and died quietly in his sleep in the geriatric psychiatric ward. 75.53.88.69 ( talk) 17:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
(Note: You changed around your post so now my comment that follows no longer made sense. Thanks for that. I've edited it in light of the changes so it is easier to understand what I was disagreeing with you about.) Regarding Trivia Being Disallowed: Why is this? It's a huge help to people who research a topic and want to know of significant references to it in culture. Also in the case of "Nothing to Gein" it is one of the links that SHOULD be included given that it is not simply "a band named after the person" but actually a song biographically about the person. Actually a song that is biographically about the subject is much MORE relevant than some band that happened to be named partially after the subject. Yacoub80 ( talk) 16:17, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
In fact, I have not changed anything I posted to this page. I moved the insertions of commentary that you put in the middle of my response, a policy violation I notified you about, to the bottom of the thread where they properly belong, which you acknowledged here. So here's the thing. You're new here. You've made one single contribution to mainspace articles in the project since July 2007, and since, have only made a few talk page posts. [4] This doesn't give you much working knowledge on the policies and guidelines here, nor much insight into discussions which have gone into decisions that resulted in them. I'm not interested in continuing this debate, which will not conclude anything on an individual basis and won't change the guidelines regarding trivia. I'm also not much interested in continuing a conversation with someone who, when approached about inappropriately refactoring other's comments, responded with "go away." If you want to research how many bands have referenced Ed Gein in a song or written a song about him, try Google. I do not have to argue the same arguments that many people argued eons ago about trivia in articles just to satisfy one person and won't do so. It's policy, based on the consensus of a large multitude of editors and it is what will be followed on pages. It isn't just my decision and I don't plan to waste my time trying to explain that to you when you haven't bothered to learn anything about policies, guidelines, procedures and process, much less civility. [5]. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 01:42, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone object to including the song "Nipple Belt" by the SubPop band TAD as pop culture? TAD was also known to sell Ed Gein T-shirts around this time to promote the song. The song is off the bands 1st LP "God's Balls" which was very influential in the early Seattle Grunge movement days: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Balls — Preceding unsigned comment added by Superswade ( talk • contribs) 07:21, 14 March 2013 (UTC)