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Shouldn't this either be the main page for Echo (with an Echo (disambiguation) page) or the tag changed to Echo (acoustic), as phenomenon is rather undescriptive? ~
trialsanderrors08:01, 25 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Also what's up with having the sound sample in ogg format? isn't that a little obscure?
I believe ogg is used because it is open source (public domain) and does not require a licensing fee. It is used in other places on Wikipedia.
Dmine4518:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)reply
House of Leaves
Did whoever wrote this article get most of the main text out of the novel House of Leaves? The bit about "having 'seen' a space" comes straight out of the book.
Duck quack
The article states:
The actual reason for the myth is that the wave of a duck's quack is almost identical to an echo. It echoes, but it is not very obvious.
This makes no sense. An echo "wave" is almost identical to the sound that is being echoed (which is why it's called an "echo"). So any sound will be practically identical to its echo sound. |
Loadmaster (
talk)
17:11, 24 December 2008 (UTC)reply
You're right, it makes no sense. AFAIK, a duck's quack can most certainly echo if there's a surface for the sound to bounce off of--the probable reason for the myth is that there often was no such surface.
Binksternet (
talk)
02:27, 26 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: move. There is consensus and adequate demonstration that this is the primary topic of "Echo". -- tariqabjotu15:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Now, granted, this isn't conclusive because 1) the information above is a loose approximation for "relative importance," not an absolute measurement, and 2) I haven't demonstrated that the sum total of all other "use" of "echo" is less than the "use" of "echo (phenomenon)." Doing so would be very impractical to prove and since it's an approximation it wouldn't necessarily give the correct result. If you have a method of determining "primary-ness" better than soliciting consensus, I'm all ears.
davidwr/(
talk)/(
contribs)/(
e-mail)
05:16, 12 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I was prepared to go along with this as common sense. But a closer look at the page traffic statistics tell a very, very different story. I have only gone a fraction of the way through the list of ambiguous entries on the dab page and it is clear that the phenomenon does not qualify as primary based on usage. To avoid interrupting the !vote here, see summary in the discussion section below. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Bkonrad (
talk •
contribs) 13:06, 12 June 2013
Support. The acoustic phenomenon is clearly what most people would expect to find under this name, regardless of how many people are actually looking to read such an article.
PowersT22:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Oppose per
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and the stats provided by Bkonrad below. The mythology usage alone is sufficient to keep the dab at the base name. The Support !votes above with "per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC" alone as their reason need to be expanded after examining the discussion. --
JHunterJ (
talk)
10:45, 19 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Discussion
Note: stats are as of 12-JUN-2013 for last 90 days
Although somewhat surprising and perhaps reflecting a systemic bias in the Wikipedia readership, it seem clear that the phenomenon is not much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term per the usage criteria.
older ≠
wiser13:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Fortunately, we make exceptions for certain common words like "apple". I think "echo" is another good candidate for such an exception, under the principle of least surprise if nothing else.
PowersT22:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Why is that fortunate? Don't you think most people who type in Apple end up not where they want? People are often making primary topic claims based on the numbers. The discussion of what should happen when the popularity numbers don't match your idea of what is more "important" suggested that we should not claim a primarytopic in such cases.
Dicklyon (
talk)
12:42, 15 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Dickylon: I agree, primary topic is about more than numbers. I honestly had no idea what "Echo (mythology)" even referred to, and had to visit the article to learn that apparently it was the name of a Greek mountain nymph. I suspect I'm not alone in this, and that if one could grab a hundred random users and ask them what "echo" meant, one would likely get a hundred responses for the phenomenon, and none saying, "Why, Echo was a mythological oread, of course!" The phenomenon really does seem like the better-known and more significant subject, and I think the proposed change properly recognizes that.
╠╣uw[
talk10:27, 28 June 2013 (UTC)reply
And where is the evidence supporting such a basic claim besides anecdotes and hypothetical speculation? The usage statistics don't. Google doesn't (the Echo (mythology) article is the only wikipedia article in the top ten results from Google.
older ≠
wiser10:59, 28 June 2013 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Physics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Physics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PhysicsWikipedia:WikiProject PhysicsTemplate:WikiProject Physicsphysics articles
Shouldn't this either be the main page for Echo (with an Echo (disambiguation) page) or the tag changed to Echo (acoustic), as phenomenon is rather undescriptive? ~
trialsanderrors08:01, 25 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Also what's up with having the sound sample in ogg format? isn't that a little obscure?
I believe ogg is used because it is open source (public domain) and does not require a licensing fee. It is used in other places on Wikipedia.
Dmine4518:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)reply
House of Leaves
Did whoever wrote this article get most of the main text out of the novel House of Leaves? The bit about "having 'seen' a space" comes straight out of the book.
Duck quack
The article states:
The actual reason for the myth is that the wave of a duck's quack is almost identical to an echo. It echoes, but it is not very obvious.
This makes no sense. An echo "wave" is almost identical to the sound that is being echoed (which is why it's called an "echo"). So any sound will be practically identical to its echo sound. |
Loadmaster (
talk)
17:11, 24 December 2008 (UTC)reply
You're right, it makes no sense. AFAIK, a duck's quack can most certainly echo if there's a surface for the sound to bounce off of--the probable reason for the myth is that there often was no such surface.
Binksternet (
talk)
02:27, 26 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: move. There is consensus and adequate demonstration that this is the primary topic of "Echo". -- tariqabjotu15:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Now, granted, this isn't conclusive because 1) the information above is a loose approximation for "relative importance," not an absolute measurement, and 2) I haven't demonstrated that the sum total of all other "use" of "echo" is less than the "use" of "echo (phenomenon)." Doing so would be very impractical to prove and since it's an approximation it wouldn't necessarily give the correct result. If you have a method of determining "primary-ness" better than soliciting consensus, I'm all ears.
davidwr/(
talk)/(
contribs)/(
e-mail)
05:16, 12 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I was prepared to go along with this as common sense. But a closer look at the page traffic statistics tell a very, very different story. I have only gone a fraction of the way through the list of ambiguous entries on the dab page and it is clear that the phenomenon does not qualify as primary based on usage. To avoid interrupting the !vote here, see summary in the discussion section below. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Bkonrad (
talk •
contribs) 13:06, 12 June 2013
Support. The acoustic phenomenon is clearly what most people would expect to find under this name, regardless of how many people are actually looking to read such an article.
PowersT22:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Oppose per
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and the stats provided by Bkonrad below. The mythology usage alone is sufficient to keep the dab at the base name. The Support !votes above with "per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC" alone as their reason need to be expanded after examining the discussion. --
JHunterJ (
talk)
10:45, 19 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Discussion
Note: stats are as of 12-JUN-2013 for last 90 days
Although somewhat surprising and perhaps reflecting a systemic bias in the Wikipedia readership, it seem clear that the phenomenon is not much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term per the usage criteria.
older ≠
wiser13:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Fortunately, we make exceptions for certain common words like "apple". I think "echo" is another good candidate for such an exception, under the principle of least surprise if nothing else.
PowersT22:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Why is that fortunate? Don't you think most people who type in Apple end up not where they want? People are often making primary topic claims based on the numbers. The discussion of what should happen when the popularity numbers don't match your idea of what is more "important" suggested that we should not claim a primarytopic in such cases.
Dicklyon (
talk)
12:42, 15 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Dickylon: I agree, primary topic is about more than numbers. I honestly had no idea what "Echo (mythology)" even referred to, and had to visit the article to learn that apparently it was the name of a Greek mountain nymph. I suspect I'm not alone in this, and that if one could grab a hundred random users and ask them what "echo" meant, one would likely get a hundred responses for the phenomenon, and none saying, "Why, Echo was a mythological oread, of course!" The phenomenon really does seem like the better-known and more significant subject, and I think the proposed change properly recognizes that.
╠╣uw[
talk10:27, 28 June 2013 (UTC)reply
And where is the evidence supporting such a basic claim besides anecdotes and hypothetical speculation? The usage statistics don't. Google doesn't (the Echo (mythology) article is the only wikipedia article in the top ten results from Google.
older ≠
wiser10:59, 28 June 2013 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.