I'll move through the sections and do the lede last:
Taxonomy and evolution
The sentence "Along with the chordates...protostomes" is quite a run on right now and needs reorganizing. One thought I had is: "Echinoderms are
bilaterians, meaning that their left and right sides are mirror images of each other. Like
chordates and
hemichordates, they are further classified as
deuterostomes, meaning that the
blastospore (the first opening to form in embryonic development) becomes the
anus instead of the
mouth." This could replace everything from "Along with the chordates" to "connecting the two," cutting out what seems to me to be a lot of unnecessary detail about the difference between protostomes and deuterostomes. What do you think of this?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
What you have really helps. The sentence still feels like it has one too many clauses, though - is there any chance you could say "during the early development of the embryo, the the first opening to form" with "the first opening to form during embryo development"?
Mover of molehills (
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14:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
I wonder if you need the sentence "The larvae of echinoderms have bilateral symmetry....typically pentamerism." It is phrased as something of a run-on right now, and you cover all of this information later during the "Diversity" section.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Removed.
I also feel like the phrase "Early analyses gave inconsistent results, the main hypothesis being that Ophiuroidea..." could be "Historically, scientists believed that Ophiruoidea..."
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The phrase "gave the following phylogenetic tree" is kind of awkward because you don't actually give the tree until a sentence later. I would just say "revised their phylogenetic tree" the first time and change "gave the same tree" to "supported the findings of the first study" the second time. When you then present the tree, readers will assume that it is the most modern version.
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The sentences "All echinoderms are marine and nearly all are benthic" needs a better connection to the "Diversity" section. I would combine it with the next sentence by saying "All echinoderms are marine animals, but they are found in habitats ranging from shallow intertidal areas to abyssal depths."
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
You don't need to say "The oldest candidate echinoderm fossil may be", since "candidate" already implies uncertainty. I would just say "The oldest candidate echinoderm fossil is."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done, now you're really taking a chance on the grockle editors!
Ah, ok, done, but that's a standard British usage.
Well, it's your choice then. I'm not an expert on BrEng, and it appears that that's the English variant used for this article, so you can leave it either way.
Mover of molehills (
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14:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
No worries.
I am confused by the current wording of the sentence "This ancestral stock... such an existence." I would say "This organism adopted an attached mode of life with suggestion feeding, and soon developed radial symmetry in order to optimize its feeding success."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited, but we can't assume feeding was the reason.
Nitpick: "The larvae of all echinoderms are even now bilaterally symmetrical" sounds better as "Even so, the larvae of modern echinoderms are bilaterally symmetrical."
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Marginal, done.
I'm not sure if the sentence "The starfish and crinoids... adult form" is even relevant to the topic at hand. Could you delete it or connect it somehow to fossil history?
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
This one might need one more pass. If you say they evolved into animals able to move freely, you're not really talking about the first echinoderms at all. Could you try to phrase it so it still mentions the congregation in groups and focuses on the original animals?
Mover of molehills (
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14:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
It does NOT mean congregation of individuals into social groups, it means evolution into later taxa (aka "groups"). I think the wording is fine now.
Got it. I see the confusion. I'm sorry to press this point, but I still don't understand why you're talking about what the first echinoderms evolved into when you have been talking about the echinoderms themselves. I would do one of the following: if the first echinoderms were motile, you can just say "The first echinoderms were able to move around freely" or something like it. If they were non-motile, I would make this clear by saying "The first echinoderms were non-motile, but they evolved into animals which were able to move freely."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:01, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
Rephrase: "The evolution of endoskeletal...early developments" is awkward. Could you say "They quickly developed endoskeletal plates with stereom structure, as well as external ciliary grooves for feeding."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
Nitpick: "attached to the substrate and were orientated with their oral surfaces upwards" sounds better as "attached to their substrate, and were oriented with their oral surfaces facing up."
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I feel like the phrase "It seems probable is the mouth-upward orientation is the primitive state and that at some stage,..." could just be "Eventually,..." - let me know what you think of that.
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited, "this" => orientation, and moved the "except for the crinoids" phrase away from the "reversed" (to which it never belonged). The crinoids were the only group that did not reverse.
Anatomy and physiology
No need to say "pentaradial, or five-sided" - especially with "pentaradial" wikilinked, the sentence will flow better without this unnecessary explanation.
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Removed.
Similarly, and to shorten this same first sentence, I don't think you need to say "like embryonic chordates" - you have already talked about the comparative symmetries of echinoderms and chordates earlier on.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Removed.
Could you be a little bit more clear about what you mean by "later" in the phrase "Later, the left side of the body grows"? My impression from earlier in the article is that it means "During metamorphosis," but I'm not sure.
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"The starfish genus Leptasterias normally have six arms" is incorrect grammar, since you are essentially saying "the starfish genus have." I would rephrase as "Many starfish in the genus Leptasterias have six arms..."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
Nitpick: For flow and to reduce choppiness, could you change "Also the Brisingida have six-armed species" to "The Brisingida also have six-armed species"?
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
I would take out the sentence "They developed from other members...symmetric larvae" since it is the third time you have mentioned this information.
Mover of molehills (
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13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Could you be more clear about what you mean by ossicles "articulating with each other"? It's hard to visualize right now, so further explanation or a visual would help.
Mover of molehills (
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21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
They form flexible joints.
I understand. What I'm really looking is a replacement of the verb "articulate" with something more clear, such as "overlap" or any other better synonym that you can think of.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
12:52, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Wikilinked: bone A articulates with bone B, it's the relevant
term of art, which is immediately explained by "to form flexible joints"; I can't be clearer than that.
The phrase "such as the "Aristotle's lantern" mouthparts of sea urchins used for grinding" is a bit awkward. I would say "such as the chewing organ known as "Aristotle's lantern" in sea urchins."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The sentence "Despite the robustness...record" is hard to read as well. I would say "Although individual ossicles are fairly robust, complete skeletons of starfish, brittle stars and crinoids are rare in the fossil record."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
Nitpick: to improve flow, I would change "radial limbs, pushing the existing plates outwards" to "radial limbs while pushing the existing plates outwards" - it just removes an unnecessary clause from the sentence.
Mover of molehills (
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21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
The sentence "Sea urchins on the other hand...limestone" doesn't read very well right now. I would say "On the other hand, sea urchins are often well preserved in chalk beds or limestone."
Mover of molehills (
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21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
For clarity, I think it would be worth changing "On fracturing such rock, distinctive cleavage patterns can be seen and sometimes even the intricate internal and external structure of the test" to "By fracturing such rock,
paleontologists can observe distinctive cleavage patterns which reveal the internal structure of the test."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
For concision and flow, "and as a result many echinoderms change appearance completely" could just be "causing many echinoderms to completely change their appearance."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Nitpicks: "This is a network of" would be clearer as "This system is composed of fluid-filled canals" for clarity, and "derived from" should be "emanating from."
Mover of molehills (
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13:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited; "derived from" does mean derivation over evolutionary time; it does not mean emanating from a current structure.
No, aboral is upper only when the mouth is facing downwards, which it often is, but not always; in the crinoids it faces up, for instance. i.e. the (upper) gloss is local not universal. Best as it is.
Adding clutter like "known as" and
scare quotes doesn't anybody; and many GA reviewers and copy-editors would object strenuously to their presence. The phrase is clearly in apposition to the "a slender duct" description already. In a science article, we are not obliged to be ashamed of the subject's terms of art.
The sentence "From this, radial canals...echinoids" doesn't give enough detail about the differences between different subclasses of echinoderms. I would say "Eventually, the ring canal branches into a series of radial canals, which lie along the arms in asteroids and adjoin to the test in echinoids."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
It would be good if the sentence "Short lateral canals...ampulla" had an appropriate sense of finality since you have just delivered a lot of information. I would say "Finally, the radial canals are divided into short lateral canals, each of which ends in an
ampulla." (Note the WikiLink)
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
It isn't "finally", as there are the tube feet to follow, in the next sentence. The thing that clarifies this is the diagram, so I've added mention of ring and radial canals and ampullae to the caption. I don't suppose you want to wikilink an
Ancient Roman pot, by the way.
For concision, it would be nice if "and is most obviously expressed in the tube feet which can be extended or contracted by the redistribution of fluid between the foot and the internal sac" was "and allows the tube feet to be extended or contracted by the redistribution of internal fluid" - right now, the sentence is a bit of a run-on.
Mover of molehills (
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13:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited. The word "wafting" gives quite a good picture of what it looks like: little particles of food in the water are wafted gently along as the tube feet swish back and forth encouraging the particles in one direction without actually grasping them. I don't think we'll easily do better.
No, that would depend which surface was on top, and that has changed between groups and through history.
The sentence "In other species...ingested" is in passive voice. I would say "Other species of echinoderms may digest whole food items such as molluscs."
Mover of molehills (
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14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded in active voice.
For flow, I would combine the two sentence about brittle stars to "Brittle stars have a blind gut with no intestine or anus, causing them to expel food waste through their mouth."
Mover of molehills (
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14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The detail is only those few words, and they describe the processes of scraping up plant material, tearing off lumps of such material instead, and chewing such lumps down into a finely-ground mush. This is strikingly different from what starfish, sea cucumbers, or crinoids get up to. The four words are doing rather a good job, I'd say.
Got it, the main part that I'm worried about hear is the long nature of the sentence. Could you change "algae and sometimes other animal or vegetable material" to "animals or vegetable material including algae" in order to improve the flow?
Mover of molehills (
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19:55, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded and shortened: algae are the main things on their menu.
In the phrase "Haemal and perihaemal systems are derived from the coelom", I would clarify "main coelom," since you have been describing a lot of different coeloms in this text.
Mover of molehills (
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14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
Nitpick: "larger and granular" should be "large and granular," since you aren't comparing it to anything. Also, "suggested to be" is a bit of vague phrasing - I would say "believed to be."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"While the ancestral condition is considered to be the possession of one genital aperture" would sound better as "While early echinoderms are believed to have had only one genital aperture."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
It might, but it's not necessarily the same thing. Only some of the early echinoderms were on the direct line to modern species; most others were on early side-branches which have become extinct.
I've done that. I wonder if we may perhaps be having a Brit/Yank thing with some of these phrasing questions.
Regeneration
I agree that the regeneration powers of regeneration are remarkable, but it feels like needless editorializing. Could you say "Many echinoderms have a unique capacity for regeneration" instead?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
20:28, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
You'll not be surprised to know that "unique" is a bit of a risky term here. Let's say "great powers".
In the sentence "The discharged organs and tissues are regenerated over the course of several months," it would be good to clarify whether this is about sea cucumbers in particular or echinoderms in general. If it's about sea cucumbers, I would fold it in with the last sentence.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
22:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The sentences "Sea urchins are constantly replacing spines lost through damage. Sea stars and sea lilies readily lose and regenerate their arms" come across as kind of choppy right now. Could you combine them into a single list-like sentence?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
22:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The use of "in a few species" and then "in some species" comes across as redundant in this same sentence. I would change the second phrase to "individual, and sometimes the arms are intentionally detached for the purpose of asexual reproduction."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
22:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
The sentence "The robust larval growth is responsible for the popularity of echinoderms as model organisms in developmental biology" feels entirely irrelevant here. Could you move it or just take it out?
Mover of molehills (
talk)!
Merged to 'In research'.
Reproduction
Nitpick: for clarity, "they nearly all have" should become "almost all species have." Then, to avoid redundancy, change "though a few species" to "though some species".
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:38, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The phrase "thus often being called "comets"" is really awkward. I would say something like "and thus are often known as comets" or "and are sometimes known as comets" to be more clear.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
More grammar: I think "Asexual reproduction in the planktonic larvae can be" should be "Asexual reproduction in the planktonic larvae can be accomplished" or something like that.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
The phrase "The parts that develop into the new larvae vary from the preoral hood" is confusing. I would say "Larvae can develop from the preoral hood..." and list from there.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
The phrase "is a cost borne by the larva both in resources and in development time" would be clearer as "is costly to the larvae both in terms of resources and development time."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
"when they detect predators (by sensing dissolved fish mucus)" is also an awkward phrasing. I would say "when they detect dissolved fish mucus, alerting them to a potential predator."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
Larval development
To start with, I feel like it might make sense to make this into a subsection under the "reproduction" section. It seems like most articles about animals group these two topics together.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Are you sure about the phrase "At this stage the bilateral symmetry is lost"? Mathematicallly, it seems like a starfish whose arms are evenly spaced still has five lines of bilateral symmetry.
Mover of molehills (
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13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
No biologist thinks of it like that, but removed anyway.
The sentence "There seems to be an evolutionary trend towards a "lower-risk–lower-gain" strategy of direct development" is too vague. Is it just talking about echinoderms? Animals in general? If it's just about echinoderms, I would just delete it because it essentially says the same thing as the rest of the paragraph.
Mover of molehills (
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13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
This paragraph seriously overuses em dashes - I think that you should have at most one set of them in such a short passage. I would keep the first pair, either delete the phrase "sometimes accounting for up to 90% of organisms or find a way to break it up into another sentence, and then remove the qualification "that is, they live on the seafloor" - you can link the "benthic" article if you think it's necessary. I don't care too much what information you keep or how you move it around, I just think that the formatting needs to change.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:03, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
No worries, we should probably aim for mid-Atlantic neutrality where possible!
Similar rephrase: "with the aid of ocean currents can be transported for great distances" would be better as "can be transported great distances with the aid of ocean currents."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:03, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Added a 'further' link. '
Locomotion' is the term of art here. An arm may move, an animal locomotes from A to B.
The lines from "The tube feet typically have a tip...provides adhesion" feel like they are delivering information in a strange order. I would say "They use small suction pads at the tips of their tube feets as well as the secretion of
mucus to adhere themselves to surfaces.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
01:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
If the suction pads merely adhered the animal would be stuck, wouldn't it... No, it's key that we talk about creating vacuum (reversibly), and the sticky secretion is definitely secondary to that. I'd say it wasn't badly expressed.
Okay, that's a good point. Do you think we could reduce the number of clauses in the second sentence by saying "This combines with some stickiness provided by the secretion of mucus to provide adhesion"?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
15:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
"Waves of tube feet contractions and relaxations move along" is confusing. I would say "The tube feet contract and relax in waves, causing the animal to move slowly along" instead.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
01:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Ah, but that's not what it means, nor what it correctly says. There are waves of activity, the motions of one tube foot after another (think of the legs of a centipede), going faster than the animal as a whole.
Could we at least change "Waves of tube feet contractions and relaxations" to "The tube feet contract and relax in waves"? That seems to carry the same information, and moves it to active voice.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
15:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The phrase "and the animal moves in jerks" feel incongruous with the sentence it's in. I would recommend rephrasing this sentence as "They move by gripping the substrate with their two forward arms, "rowing" with their two side arms, and letting their hindermost arm trail behind."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Again, the locomotion of the animal as a whole is quite different from what the tube feet or indeed the arms are up to (there are 3 different levels of movement here). Locomotion is jerky, where the tube feet move in smooth little oscillations. (I suspect you might like the "evolution by jerks" vs "evolution by creeps" at
Stephen Jay Gould#Punctuated equilibrium.)
The next sentence is also a little bit awkward: I would say "They also use their arm spines to provide traction on the substrate, and their supple arms to grab nearby objects."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
"Some species bore into rock and they usually do this by" could just be "Some species of sea urchins bore into the rock by." (note both the shortening and the clarification)
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
When you say of sea cucumbers, "Many can move on the surface", do you mean the surface of the water or the substrate at the bottom of the water? It would be good to clarify this.
Mover of molehills (
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13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The sea bed.
The phrase "expand and contract their body or rhythmically flex it and "swim"" feels redundant. I would cut it to "rhythmically flex their body in order to "swim"".
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded; once again, these two types of movement (peristalsis and flexing) are very different.
The line "These stems can bend and the arms can roll and unroll and that is about the limit of the sea lily's movement" is extremely poorly phrased. I would say "Sea lilies are able to bend their stalks and roll and unroll their arms, and a few species can crawl along the seabed, but other than that they have no capacity for movement."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
I would combine the phrase "Many can also swim with their arms" into the previous sentence instead of combining it with the sentence about how sessile they are.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
Feeding
The modes of feeding vary greatly between the different echinoderm taxa" is kind of a passive way to phrase it. I would say "Different echinoderm taxa feed in very different ways."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Again, "mode of feeding" is a term of art in zoology.
The sentence "Crinoids are suspension feeders and spread their arms wide to catch particles floating past" seems entirely redundant with what you have just said. I would cut this sentence and make the next one "Crinoids catch food particles with the tube feet on their pinnules, move them into the ambulacral grooves, wrap them in mucus and then convey them to the mouth using the cilia on the grooves."
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
They are, but they have distinctive behaviours. Added 'other'.
The phrase "though usually one predominates" is unclear - which one? Or do you mean each species has its own preferred method (in which case you should clarify that)?
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Removed. It means the latter; it's actually explained in the rest of the paragraph.
"Others are scavengers and feeders on detritus" would sound better as "Others are scavengers which feed on detritus." "Feeder" isn't a word you hear very often.
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Again, two different things. For the second one, we could say 'detritus feeder' or 'detritivore'.
Nitpick: "specialised mouthparts known as Aristotle's lantern" sounds strange because you're equating a singular with a plural. Would it be fair to say "specialized mouthpart"?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
No, we can't do that; Aristotle's lantern has five jaws. Best as it is, I think.
I thought that the picture "File:Neothyonidium magnum (Burrowing sea cucumber).jpg" might be nice to add to this section - not just for the sake of decoration, but because it effectively illustrates what is going on. Sorry if this is the wrong section.
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Why not, added.
You begin two paragraphs in a row with the redundant phrasing "Many sea urchins" and then "Many sea cucumbers". I would change the second one to "Sea cucumbers tend to."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded, but the "many" was not redundant (however repetitive), we need to say it's a lot of 'em.
Make sure you link "adductor muscle." Also, for consistency, it would be worth saying "As the adductor muscle of the bivalve" rather than "As the adductor muscle of the shellfish."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"Another defensive strategy sometimes adopted by sea cucumbers is to rupture the body wall" could be condensed as "Sea cucumbers also occasionally defend themselves by rupturing their body wall"
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded. Note that "defensive strategy" is yet another term of art, but we can let this one go.
"may undergo autotomy when attacked, an arm becoming detached" would sound better as "may undergo autotomy when attacked, detaching an arm" (also, no need for the duplink).
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The connection of "It is not unusual to find starfish with arms of different sizes in various stages of regrowth" to this section is tenuous. I would recommend just deleting it, or perhaps moving it to the "regeneration" section.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Yeah, it's covered over there already.
Ecology
Another nice image that could go with this section: "File:Blue Linckia Starfish.JPG". This one is a bit more optional, but I do think it provides an effective illustration of the symbiosis between starfish and coral reefs.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Added.
The sentence "An example is the change...1983" feels like the wrong order of information delivery. I would say "In 1983, for example, the mass mortality of the tropical sea urchin Diadema antillarum caused a change from a coral-dominated reef system to an alga-dominated one in the Caribbean."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Rearranged.
The sentence "Echinoderms form part of the diet...humans" feels redundant with some of the information in the section above, and also implies that the section above was missing quite a bit of information.
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The sentence "The quality is assessed by the colour which can range from light yellow to bright orange", because it does not say which colors are better. I would restructure this as a sentence in the form of "Gonads of color X are generally considered of higher quality than gonads of color Y."
They stick on dried starfish to create artworks, rather as small schoolchildren glue pasta to things and paint it in jolly colours to create "things of beauty" for their parents' homes for the following 20 years or so... Reworded.
@
Chiswick Chap: The rest of the comments for the review will be in this section as I check through the citations. Hopefully, unless the article has substantial referencing issues, this should mean that the bulk of the work for you is over.
Mover of molehills (
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16:54, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I feel a little bit uncomfortable with how you present the list "Two main subdivisons...paracrinoids" using the exact same format as the source. Is this standard in biology, or is there a way to rephrase it?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:12, 11 June 2022 (UTC)reply
There isn't a lot of scope for rewording, as you rightly indicate; the Wikipedia position is that lists can't be copyrighted as anyone is free to name the items there. The order was in fact already not identical, but I've varied the wording further for you.
Well, once someone has waved the flag of copyvio, however minor as here, it's best to be sure there is nothing that anyone could complain about.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
13:34, 13 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The phrase about catch connective tissue changing "in seconds or minutes under nervous control" is present verbatim in the source. This could definitely use a better rephrase.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
18:27, 15 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Hm, "suspension feeder" is a term of art, and passivity is a key feature, as suspension feeding is generally active. Rejiggled the words, but this is both extremely minor (unnecessary, beyond GA criteria) and awkward to avoid.
Source states "General morphology": "The water vascular system is one of three parts of the tubular coelomic system. The other parts are the haemal system (hs) and the perihaemal system (phs), which usually surrounds the haemal system."
I see the sentence "The gonads occupy much of the body cavities of sea urchins and sea cucumbers" supported for sea cucumbers, but not sea urchins - could you point me to the appropriate reference?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 21 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Added ref.
Could you point me towards the discussion of "epimorphosis and morphallaxis" in source 53? From what I can see, it is mainly talking about regeneration of the gut.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 21 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Dedifferentiation: throughout, eg "As myoepithelial cells dedifferentiate, their myofilaments form dense spindle-like structures"
Morphallaxis: "gut regeneration involves a morphallactic remodeling of the remaining intestinal tissues".
Removed 'mostly'; the matter is covered better in the last para of the section.
The sentence "after 500 million years of larval evolution, about 68% of species whose development is known have a yolk-feeding larva" is much too close to the source. Try a better paraphrase.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Yes, as above, it's been rewritten. Redone the text without it.
I feel like the phrase "0.1 gigatons of carbon" is misleading because this seems to be referring to elemental carbon and not CO2 (while I think most estimates of carbon sequestration are given in terms of CO2). I believe 0.1 Gt of C is equal to 0.37 Gt CO2.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)reply
This article is overall very complete. The one thing it might be missing is a section on "Etymology," although I'm not sure if there's much interesting to say. If you don't want to add an etymology section, I would recommend removing the phrase "(/ɪˌkaɪnoʊˈdɜːrmətə/; from Ancient Greek ἐχῖνος (ekhînos) 'hedgehog', and δέρμα (dérma) 'skin')" because it really breaks up the lead sentence.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Can't see that removing the etymology altogether is an improvement! Moved it to taxonomy.
From looking at the page history, it does seem like there has been a good deal of recent vandalism. Does it seem reasonable to semi-protect it to keep it more stable?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:05, 1 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Interesting, but the current one shows the ampullae, and it also shows how everything is connected, which the other drawing is a bit vague about. I think we'd best stick with the one we've got for the moment. There may well be CC-by-SA drawings out there that are better but I've not seen them yet.
Fair enough.
My one other comment here is that there is a big gap in the article filled with nothing but text in the "Reproduction" section. My general philosophy is that we should avoid long stretches of text-heavy content if there are good images that can illustrate what we are talking about. In particular, "File:Comet form of Linckia.png" seems like it could be a good fit for the "asexual reproduction" section - what do you think?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
18:45, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Promoted. Great work on this one. A very important topic, and I think that the article has developed a lot as a result of this exhaustive round of edits.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
18:20, 23 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I'll move through the sections and do the lede last:
Taxonomy and evolution
The sentence "Along with the chordates...protostomes" is quite a run on right now and needs reorganizing. One thought I had is: "Echinoderms are
bilaterians, meaning that their left and right sides are mirror images of each other. Like
chordates and
hemichordates, they are further classified as
deuterostomes, meaning that the
blastospore (the first opening to form in embryonic development) becomes the
anus instead of the
mouth." This could replace everything from "Along with the chordates" to "connecting the two," cutting out what seems to me to be a lot of unnecessary detail about the difference between protostomes and deuterostomes. What do you think of this?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
What you have really helps. The sentence still feels like it has one too many clauses, though - is there any chance you could say "during the early development of the embryo, the the first opening to form" with "the first opening to form during embryo development"?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
I wonder if you need the sentence "The larvae of echinoderms have bilateral symmetry....typically pentamerism." It is phrased as something of a run-on right now, and you cover all of this information later during the "Diversity" section.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Removed.
I also feel like the phrase "Early analyses gave inconsistent results, the main hypothesis being that Ophiuroidea..." could be "Historically, scientists believed that Ophiruoidea..."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The phrase "gave the following phylogenetic tree" is kind of awkward because you don't actually give the tree until a sentence later. I would just say "revised their phylogenetic tree" the first time and change "gave the same tree" to "supported the findings of the first study" the second time. When you then present the tree, readers will assume that it is the most modern version.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The sentences "All echinoderms are marine and nearly all are benthic" needs a better connection to the "Diversity" section. I would combine it with the next sentence by saying "All echinoderms are marine animals, but they are found in habitats ranging from shallow intertidal areas to abyssal depths."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
You don't need to say "The oldest candidate echinoderm fossil may be", since "candidate" already implies uncertainty. I would just say "The oldest candidate echinoderm fossil is."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done, now you're really taking a chance on the grockle editors!
Ah, ok, done, but that's a standard British usage.
Well, it's your choice then. I'm not an expert on BrEng, and it appears that that's the English variant used for this article, so you can leave it either way.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
No worries.
I am confused by the current wording of the sentence "This ancestral stock... such an existence." I would say "This organism adopted an attached mode of life with suggestion feeding, and soon developed radial symmetry in order to optimize its feeding success."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited, but we can't assume feeding was the reason.
Nitpick: "The larvae of all echinoderms are even now bilaterally symmetrical" sounds better as "Even so, the larvae of modern echinoderms are bilaterally symmetrical."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Marginal, done.
I'm not sure if the sentence "The starfish and crinoids... adult form" is even relevant to the topic at hand. Could you delete it or connect it somehow to fossil history?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
This one might need one more pass. If you say they evolved into animals able to move freely, you're not really talking about the first echinoderms at all. Could you try to phrase it so it still mentions the congregation in groups and focuses on the original animals?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
It does NOT mean congregation of individuals into social groups, it means evolution into later taxa (aka "groups"). I think the wording is fine now.
Got it. I see the confusion. I'm sorry to press this point, but I still don't understand why you're talking about what the first echinoderms evolved into when you have been talking about the echinoderms themselves. I would do one of the following: if the first echinoderms were motile, you can just say "The first echinoderms were able to move around freely" or something like it. If they were non-motile, I would make this clear by saying "The first echinoderms were non-motile, but they evolved into animals which were able to move freely."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:01, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
Rephrase: "The evolution of endoskeletal...early developments" is awkward. Could you say "They quickly developed endoskeletal plates with stereom structure, as well as external ciliary grooves for feeding."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
Nitpick: "attached to the substrate and were orientated with their oral surfaces upwards" sounds better as "attached to their substrate, and were oriented with their oral surfaces facing up."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I feel like the phrase "It seems probable is the mouth-upward orientation is the primitive state and that at some stage,..." could just be "Eventually,..." - let me know what you think of that.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited, "this" => orientation, and moved the "except for the crinoids" phrase away from the "reversed" (to which it never belonged). The crinoids were the only group that did not reverse.
Anatomy and physiology
No need to say "pentaradial, or five-sided" - especially with "pentaradial" wikilinked, the sentence will flow better without this unnecessary explanation.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Removed.
Similarly, and to shorten this same first sentence, I don't think you need to say "like embryonic chordates" - you have already talked about the comparative symmetries of echinoderms and chordates earlier on.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Removed.
Could you be a little bit more clear about what you mean by "later" in the phrase "Later, the left side of the body grows"? My impression from earlier in the article is that it means "During metamorphosis," but I'm not sure.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"The starfish genus Leptasterias normally have six arms" is incorrect grammar, since you are essentially saying "the starfish genus have." I would rephrase as "Many starfish in the genus Leptasterias have six arms..."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
Nitpick: For flow and to reduce choppiness, could you change "Also the Brisingida have six-armed species" to "The Brisingida also have six-armed species"?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
I would take out the sentence "They developed from other members...symmetric larvae" since it is the third time you have mentioned this information.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Could you be more clear about what you mean by ossicles "articulating with each other"? It's hard to visualize right now, so further explanation or a visual would help.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
They form flexible joints.
I understand. What I'm really looking is a replacement of the verb "articulate" with something more clear, such as "overlap" or any other better synonym that you can think of.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
12:52, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Wikilinked: bone A articulates with bone B, it's the relevant
term of art, which is immediately explained by "to form flexible joints"; I can't be clearer than that.
The phrase "such as the "Aristotle's lantern" mouthparts of sea urchins used for grinding" is a bit awkward. I would say "such as the chewing organ known as "Aristotle's lantern" in sea urchins."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The sentence "Despite the robustness...record" is hard to read as well. I would say "Although individual ossicles are fairly robust, complete skeletons of starfish, brittle stars and crinoids are rare in the fossil record."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
Nitpick: to improve flow, I would change "radial limbs, pushing the existing plates outwards" to "radial limbs while pushing the existing plates outwards" - it just removes an unnecessary clause from the sentence.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
The sentence "Sea urchins on the other hand...limestone" doesn't read very well right now. I would say "On the other hand, sea urchins are often well preserved in chalk beds or limestone."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
For clarity, I think it would be worth changing "On fracturing such rock, distinctive cleavage patterns can be seen and sometimes even the intricate internal and external structure of the test" to "By fracturing such rock,
paleontologists can observe distinctive cleavage patterns which reveal the internal structure of the test."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
For concision and flow, "and as a result many echinoderms change appearance completely" could just be "causing many echinoderms to completely change their appearance."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
21:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Nitpicks: "This is a network of" would be clearer as "This system is composed of fluid-filled canals" for clarity, and "derived from" should be "emanating from."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited; "derived from" does mean derivation over evolutionary time; it does not mean emanating from a current structure.
No, aboral is upper only when the mouth is facing downwards, which it often is, but not always; in the crinoids it faces up, for instance. i.e. the (upper) gloss is local not universal. Best as it is.
Adding clutter like "known as" and
scare quotes doesn't anybody; and many GA reviewers and copy-editors would object strenuously to their presence. The phrase is clearly in apposition to the "a slender duct" description already. In a science article, we are not obliged to be ashamed of the subject's terms of art.
The sentence "From this, radial canals...echinoids" doesn't give enough detail about the differences between different subclasses of echinoderms. I would say "Eventually, the ring canal branches into a series of radial canals, which lie along the arms in asteroids and adjoin to the test in echinoids."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
It would be good if the sentence "Short lateral canals...ampulla" had an appropriate sense of finality since you have just delivered a lot of information. I would say "Finally, the radial canals are divided into short lateral canals, each of which ends in an
ampulla." (Note the WikiLink)
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
It isn't "finally", as there are the tube feet to follow, in the next sentence. The thing that clarifies this is the diagram, so I've added mention of ring and radial canals and ampullae to the caption. I don't suppose you want to wikilink an
Ancient Roman pot, by the way.
For concision, it would be nice if "and is most obviously expressed in the tube feet which can be extended or contracted by the redistribution of fluid between the foot and the internal sac" was "and allows the tube feet to be extended or contracted by the redistribution of internal fluid" - right now, the sentence is a bit of a run-on.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited. The word "wafting" gives quite a good picture of what it looks like: little particles of food in the water are wafted gently along as the tube feet swish back and forth encouraging the particles in one direction without actually grasping them. I don't think we'll easily do better.
No, that would depend which surface was on top, and that has changed between groups and through history.
The sentence "In other species...ingested" is in passive voice. I would say "Other species of echinoderms may digest whole food items such as molluscs."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded in active voice.
For flow, I would combine the two sentence about brittle stars to "Brittle stars have a blind gut with no intestine or anus, causing them to expel food waste through their mouth."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The detail is only those few words, and they describe the processes of scraping up plant material, tearing off lumps of such material instead, and chewing such lumps down into a finely-ground mush. This is strikingly different from what starfish, sea cucumbers, or crinoids get up to. The four words are doing rather a good job, I'd say.
Got it, the main part that I'm worried about hear is the long nature of the sentence. Could you change "algae and sometimes other animal or vegetable material" to "animals or vegetable material including algae" in order to improve the flow?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
19:55, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded and shortened: algae are the main things on their menu.
In the phrase "Haemal and perihaemal systems are derived from the coelom", I would clarify "main coelom," since you have been describing a lot of different coeloms in this text.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
Nitpick: "larger and granular" should be "large and granular," since you aren't comparing it to anything. Also, "suggested to be" is a bit of vague phrasing - I would say "believed to be."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"While the ancestral condition is considered to be the possession of one genital aperture" would sound better as "While early echinoderms are believed to have had only one genital aperture."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
It might, but it's not necessarily the same thing. Only some of the early echinoderms were on the direct line to modern species; most others were on early side-branches which have become extinct.
I've done that. I wonder if we may perhaps be having a Brit/Yank thing with some of these phrasing questions.
Regeneration
I agree that the regeneration powers of regeneration are remarkable, but it feels like needless editorializing. Could you say "Many echinoderms have a unique capacity for regeneration" instead?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
20:28, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
You'll not be surprised to know that "unique" is a bit of a risky term here. Let's say "great powers".
In the sentence "The discharged organs and tissues are regenerated over the course of several months," it would be good to clarify whether this is about sea cucumbers in particular or echinoderms in general. If it's about sea cucumbers, I would fold it in with the last sentence.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
22:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The sentences "Sea urchins are constantly replacing spines lost through damage. Sea stars and sea lilies readily lose and regenerate their arms" come across as kind of choppy right now. Could you combine them into a single list-like sentence?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
22:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The use of "in a few species" and then "in some species" comes across as redundant in this same sentence. I would change the second phrase to "individual, and sometimes the arms are intentionally detached for the purpose of asexual reproduction."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
22:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
The sentence "The robust larval growth is responsible for the popularity of echinoderms as model organisms in developmental biology" feels entirely irrelevant here. Could you move it or just take it out?
Mover of molehills (
talk)!
Merged to 'In research'.
Reproduction
Nitpick: for clarity, "they nearly all have" should become "almost all species have." Then, to avoid redundancy, change "though a few species" to "though some species".
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:38, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The phrase "thus often being called "comets"" is really awkward. I would say something like "and thus are often known as comets" or "and are sometimes known as comets" to be more clear.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
More grammar: I think "Asexual reproduction in the planktonic larvae can be" should be "Asexual reproduction in the planktonic larvae can be accomplished" or something like that.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
The phrase "The parts that develop into the new larvae vary from the preoral hood" is confusing. I would say "Larvae can develop from the preoral hood..." and list from there.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
The phrase "is a cost borne by the larva both in resources and in development time" would be clearer as "is costly to the larvae both in terms of resources and development time."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
"when they detect predators (by sensing dissolved fish mucus)" is also an awkward phrasing. I would say "when they detect dissolved fish mucus, alerting them to a potential predator."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Edited.
Larval development
To start with, I feel like it might make sense to make this into a subsection under the "reproduction" section. It seems like most articles about animals group these two topics together.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Are you sure about the phrase "At this stage the bilateral symmetry is lost"? Mathematicallly, it seems like a starfish whose arms are evenly spaced still has five lines of bilateral symmetry.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
No biologist thinks of it like that, but removed anyway.
The sentence "There seems to be an evolutionary trend towards a "lower-risk–lower-gain" strategy of direct development" is too vague. Is it just talking about echinoderms? Animals in general? If it's just about echinoderms, I would just delete it because it essentially says the same thing as the rest of the paragraph.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
This paragraph seriously overuses em dashes - I think that you should have at most one set of them in such a short passage. I would keep the first pair, either delete the phrase "sometimes accounting for up to 90% of organisms or find a way to break it up into another sentence, and then remove the qualification "that is, they live on the seafloor" - you can link the "benthic" article if you think it's necessary. I don't care too much what information you keep or how you move it around, I just think that the formatting needs to change.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:03, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
No worries, we should probably aim for mid-Atlantic neutrality where possible!
Similar rephrase: "with the aid of ocean currents can be transported for great distances" would be better as "can be transported great distances with the aid of ocean currents."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
14:03, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Added a 'further' link. '
Locomotion' is the term of art here. An arm may move, an animal locomotes from A to B.
The lines from "The tube feet typically have a tip...provides adhesion" feel like they are delivering information in a strange order. I would say "They use small suction pads at the tips of their tube feets as well as the secretion of
mucus to adhere themselves to surfaces.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
01:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
If the suction pads merely adhered the animal would be stuck, wouldn't it... No, it's key that we talk about creating vacuum (reversibly), and the sticky secretion is definitely secondary to that. I'd say it wasn't badly expressed.
Okay, that's a good point. Do you think we could reduce the number of clauses in the second sentence by saying "This combines with some stickiness provided by the secretion of mucus to provide adhesion"?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
15:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
"Waves of tube feet contractions and relaxations move along" is confusing. I would say "The tube feet contract and relax in waves, causing the animal to move slowly along" instead.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
01:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Ah, but that's not what it means, nor what it correctly says. There are waves of activity, the motions of one tube foot after another (think of the legs of a centipede), going faster than the animal as a whole.
Could we at least change "Waves of tube feet contractions and relaxations" to "The tube feet contract and relax in waves"? That seems to carry the same information, and moves it to active voice.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
15:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The phrase "and the animal moves in jerks" feel incongruous with the sentence it's in. I would recommend rephrasing this sentence as "They move by gripping the substrate with their two forward arms, "rowing" with their two side arms, and letting their hindermost arm trail behind."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Again, the locomotion of the animal as a whole is quite different from what the tube feet or indeed the arms are up to (there are 3 different levels of movement here). Locomotion is jerky, where the tube feet move in smooth little oscillations. (I suspect you might like the "evolution by jerks" vs "evolution by creeps" at
Stephen Jay Gould#Punctuated equilibrium.)
The next sentence is also a little bit awkward: I would say "They also use their arm spines to provide traction on the substrate, and their supple arms to grab nearby objects."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
"Some species bore into rock and they usually do this by" could just be "Some species of sea urchins bore into the rock by." (note both the shortening and the clarification)
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
When you say of sea cucumbers, "Many can move on the surface", do you mean the surface of the water or the substrate at the bottom of the water? It would be good to clarify this.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The sea bed.
The phrase "expand and contract their body or rhythmically flex it and "swim"" feels redundant. I would cut it to "rhythmically flex their body in order to "swim"".
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded; once again, these two types of movement (peristalsis and flexing) are very different.
The line "These stems can bend and the arms can roll and unroll and that is about the limit of the sea lily's movement" is extremely poorly phrased. I would say "Sea lilies are able to bend their stalks and roll and unroll their arms, and a few species can crawl along the seabed, but other than that they have no capacity for movement."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded.
I would combine the phrase "Many can also swim with their arms" into the previous sentence instead of combining it with the sentence about how sessile they are.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
Feeding
The modes of feeding vary greatly between the different echinoderm taxa" is kind of a passive way to phrase it. I would say "Different echinoderm taxa feed in very different ways."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Again, "mode of feeding" is a term of art in zoology.
The sentence "Crinoids are suspension feeders and spread their arms wide to catch particles floating past" seems entirely redundant with what you have just said. I would cut this sentence and make the next one "Crinoids catch food particles with the tube feet on their pinnules, move them into the ambulacral grooves, wrap them in mucus and then convey them to the mouth using the cilia on the grooves."
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
They are, but they have distinctive behaviours. Added 'other'.
The phrase "though usually one predominates" is unclear - which one? Or do you mean each species has its own preferred method (in which case you should clarify that)?
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Removed. It means the latter; it's actually explained in the rest of the paragraph.
"Others are scavengers and feeders on detritus" would sound better as "Others are scavengers which feed on detritus." "Feeder" isn't a word you hear very often.
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Again, two different things. For the second one, we could say 'detritus feeder' or 'detritivore'.
Nitpick: "specialised mouthparts known as Aristotle's lantern" sounds strange because you're equating a singular with a plural. Would it be fair to say "specialized mouthpart"?
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
No, we can't do that; Aristotle's lantern has five jaws. Best as it is, I think.
I thought that the picture "File:Neothyonidium magnum (Burrowing sea cucumber).jpg" might be nice to add to this section - not just for the sake of decoration, but because it effectively illustrates what is going on. Sorry if this is the wrong section.
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Why not, added.
You begin two paragraphs in a row with the redundant phrasing "Many sea urchins" and then "Many sea cucumbers". I would change the second one to "Sea cucumbers tend to."
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded, but the "many" was not redundant (however repetitive), we need to say it's a lot of 'em.
Make sure you link "adductor muscle." Also, for consistency, it would be worth saying "As the adductor muscle of the bivalve" rather than "As the adductor muscle of the shellfish."
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"Another defensive strategy sometimes adopted by sea cucumbers is to rupture the body wall" could be condensed as "Sea cucumbers also occasionally defend themselves by rupturing their body wall"
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Reworded. Note that "defensive strategy" is yet another term of art, but we can let this one go.
"may undergo autotomy when attacked, an arm becoming detached" would sound better as "may undergo autotomy when attacked, detaching an arm" (also, no need for the duplink).
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Done.
The connection of "It is not unusual to find starfish with arms of different sizes in various stages of regrowth" to this section is tenuous. I would recommend just deleting it, or perhaps moving it to the "regeneration" section.
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Yeah, it's covered over there already.
Ecology
Another nice image that could go with this section: "File:Blue Linckia Starfish.JPG". This one is a bit more optional, but I do think it provides an effective illustration of the symbiosis between starfish and coral reefs.
Mover of molehills (
talk)
13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Added.
The sentence "An example is the change...1983" feels like the wrong order of information delivery. I would say "In 1983, for example, the mass mortality of the tropical sea urchin Diadema antillarum caused a change from a coral-dominated reef system to an alga-dominated one in the Caribbean."
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Rearranged.
The sentence "Echinoderms form part of the diet...humans" feels redundant with some of the information in the section above, and also implies that the section above was missing quite a bit of information.
Mover of molehills (
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13:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The sentence "The quality is assessed by the colour which can range from light yellow to bright orange", because it does not say which colors are better. I would restructure this as a sentence in the form of "Gonads of color X are generally considered of higher quality than gonads of color Y."
They stick on dried starfish to create artworks, rather as small schoolchildren glue pasta to things and paint it in jolly colours to create "things of beauty" for their parents' homes for the following 20 years or so... Reworded.
@
Chiswick Chap: The rest of the comments for the review will be in this section as I check through the citations. Hopefully, unless the article has substantial referencing issues, this should mean that the bulk of the work for you is over.
Mover of molehills (
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16:54, 10 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I feel a little bit uncomfortable with how you present the list "Two main subdivisons...paracrinoids" using the exact same format as the source. Is this standard in biology, or is there a way to rephrase it?
Mover of molehills (
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21:12, 11 June 2022 (UTC)reply
There isn't a lot of scope for rewording, as you rightly indicate; the Wikipedia position is that lists can't be copyrighted as anyone is free to name the items there. The order was in fact already not identical, but I've varied the wording further for you.
Well, once someone has waved the flag of copyvio, however minor as here, it's best to be sure there is nothing that anyone could complain about.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
13:34, 13 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The phrase about catch connective tissue changing "in seconds or minutes under nervous control" is present verbatim in the source. This could definitely use a better rephrase.
Mover of molehills (
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18:27, 15 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Hm, "suspension feeder" is a term of art, and passivity is a key feature, as suspension feeding is generally active. Rejiggled the words, but this is both extremely minor (unnecessary, beyond GA criteria) and awkward to avoid.
Source states "General morphology": "The water vascular system is one of three parts of the tubular coelomic system. The other parts are the haemal system (hs) and the perihaemal system (phs), which usually surrounds the haemal system."
I see the sentence "The gonads occupy much of the body cavities of sea urchins and sea cucumbers" supported for sea cucumbers, but not sea urchins - could you point me to the appropriate reference?
Mover of molehills (
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13:57, 21 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Added ref.
Could you point me towards the discussion of "epimorphosis and morphallaxis" in source 53? From what I can see, it is mainly talking about regeneration of the gut.
Mover of molehills (
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13:57, 21 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Dedifferentiation: throughout, eg "As myoepithelial cells dedifferentiate, their myofilaments form dense spindle-like structures"
Morphallaxis: "gut regeneration involves a morphallactic remodeling of the remaining intestinal tissues".
Removed 'mostly'; the matter is covered better in the last para of the section.
The sentence "after 500 million years of larval evolution, about 68% of species whose development is known have a yolk-feeding larva" is much too close to the source. Try a better paraphrase.
Mover of molehills (
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14:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Yes, as above, it's been rewritten. Redone the text without it.
I feel like the phrase "0.1 gigatons of carbon" is misleading because this seems to be referring to elemental carbon and not CO2 (while I think most estimates of carbon sequestration are given in terms of CO2). I believe 0.1 Gt of C is equal to 0.37 Gt CO2.
Mover of molehills (
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14:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)reply
This article is overall very complete. The one thing it might be missing is a section on "Etymology," although I'm not sure if there's much interesting to say. If you don't want to add an etymology section, I would recommend removing the phrase "(/ɪˌkaɪnoʊˈdɜːrmətə/; from Ancient Greek ἐχῖνος (ekhînos) 'hedgehog', and δέρμα (dérma) 'skin')" because it really breaks up the lead sentence.
Mover of molehills (
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14:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Can't see that removing the etymology altogether is an improvement! Moved it to taxonomy.
From looking at the page history, it does seem like there has been a good deal of recent vandalism. Does it seem reasonable to semi-protect it to keep it more stable?
Mover of molehills (
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14:05, 1 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Interesting, but the current one shows the ampullae, and it also shows how everything is connected, which the other drawing is a bit vague about. I think we'd best stick with the one we've got for the moment. There may well be CC-by-SA drawings out there that are better but I've not seen them yet.
Fair enough.
My one other comment here is that there is a big gap in the article filled with nothing but text in the "Reproduction" section. My general philosophy is that we should avoid long stretches of text-heavy content if there are good images that can illustrate what we are talking about. In particular, "File:Comet form of Linckia.png" seems like it could be a good fit for the "asexual reproduction" section - what do you think?
Mover of molehills (
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18:45, 9 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Promoted. Great work on this one. A very important topic, and I think that the article has developed a lot as a result of this exhaustive round of edits.
Mover of molehills (
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18:20, 23 June 2022 (UTC)reply