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Overly Critical For a book which has been widely acclaimed and been a big bestseller I find it strange that this article contains such heavy criticism, including one from a comedian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.125.14.247 ( talk) 14:48, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't this redirect to the more complete Eats, Shoots and Leaves article? The book's title actually does have the "&," though. -- Waiting4beckett 16:05, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The New Yorker review is no longer available online. Remove link? John2429 20:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I was amazed to find a plethora of grammatical errors in Eats, Shoots & Leaves. And I do not like ampersands in prose! LoopZilla 17:39, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I found some mistakes too, although I didn't have a notepad to hand when reading it. I think they should be included. I might re-read it and include them. Damiancorrigan 23:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
The tag-line on the book's cover is missing a hyphen: it should be The Zero-Tolerance Approach to Punctuation. To refer to a "Tolerance Approach" doesn't make sense, nor does a "Zero Approach"! 62.56.104.146 19:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it isn't. Zero tolerance is spelled without a hyphen, and, as no commentators are named lambasting the title in the article, as well there being a [citation needed] in place, I have removed the sentence from the Criticism section. 71.51.53.206 ( talk) 07:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Honestly, what is with the first sentence in the overview? Is the bad grammar a joke?... The "and" right before "quotation marks" doesn't make one bit of sense. In addition it's an incredibly ugly run-on sentence. Might I recommend a list of chapters to replace the run-on? I would fix it myself, but given the poor writing I can't tell if: "exclamation marks, question marks, and quotation marks, italic type, dashes, brackets, ellipses, and emoticons" is referring to one or two chapters (or something else?). Did the writer of this bibliography even read this book?... 76.171.93.45 ( talk) 03:22, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I understand this conversation ‘ended’ years ago, but I’m here to revive it. As it appears in dictionary.com, “zero tolerance” is a policy (a noun), whereas “zero-tolerance” is a modifier (adjective). Look no further than the Wikipedia page Zero tolerance & you’ll see hyphenated & unhyphenated forms. However, I also understand that the point is that the criticism isn’t cited, so this was really just a belated point of order that doesn’t effect the decision. Dfcorrea00 ( talk) 22:52, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
The ampersand (&) is an often over-used abbreviation for the word and. Its use should be limited to a few situations.
This is the first sentence of All about ampersands. The article then asserts:
Do not use an ampersand in general writing simply to abbreviate the word and.
LoopZilla 08:47, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
The "eats shoots and leaves" joke with which I'm familiar is much simpler. The book in question was a dictionary rather than a wildlife manual, and it was not badly punctuated; it was simply misinterpreted. The punctuation problem in that case is that some people leave out commas, and the sentence was interpreted as if a comma had been left out. Since apparently the joke doesn't appear anywhere in "Eats, Shoots & Leaves", shouldn't the simpler form of the joke be in this article? It almost seems as if the joke has been modified to more directly suit the purposes of this book. — Deadcode 17:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
The joke is printed on the back cover of the dustjacket of my copy (UK edition) in almost exactly the form it appears in the article. Mhkay ( talk) 20:56, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The joke in the article is very different from the version printed on the back cover. And main difference is not 'the "badly-punctuated" bit' ! The joke in the article is very cruel. the version printed on the back cover is just funny ! Look here: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FdfTKVG0KfE/TyBpXVDHK6I/AAAAAAAACzE/Y4LwV5eTizc/s1600/Panda+BC+ESL.jpg and here: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7khpQf8u5M8/Tbyx5eMdJoI/AAAAAAAACRU/JP9stWpCVHw/s1600/Eats%252C%2BShoots%2Band%2BLeaves%252C%2BBack.JPG Frankly, i've got no idea for the reason why this charming joke was crippled ("maiden virtue rudely strumpeted") ? i believe that original text should be restored. Arteau ( talk) 11:16, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Why on earth is the word 'joke' linked to an article on the meaning of the word 'joke'? At this rate every single word in every single Wikipedia article could be a link: 'the' on the meaning of definite articles, 'meaning' on the meaning of meaning, and on and on.... 213.127.210.95 ( talk) 17:50, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
What is the JFB there for?
Is there really a chapter on smileys anyway??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.74.200 ( talk • contribs) 13:07, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a common joke in Australia about how Australian males are like Wombats. Why? The Wombat eats roots and leaves. The Australian male eats, roots, and leaves. Whereas roots refers to has sexual intercourse (in Australian Slang) in the latter example. May be there is a connection between this analogy (or: example of the importance of punctuation)and the title of the book?
How abouta list of examples where punctuation affects the meaning? Example: Women without her man, is nothing. Or:Women. Without her, man is nothing.-- Soylentyellow 22:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I read in the book that Hebrew did not have punctuation, and that leads to Bible translation problems. Masoretic Hebrew texts did have punctuation, its just that most people don't understand it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.203.174.171 ( talk) 23:47, August 20, 2007 (UTC)
In my copy (American) of Eats, Shoots, & Leaves, the quote is "If Lynne Truss were Roman Catholic I'd nominate her for sainthood." So I will add "Roman" to the article; it seems too important to leave out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Istillcandream ( talk • contribs) 04:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The title of this book really, really bothers me. Why? Because I hate when people don't use a serial comma. I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned. -- Cleveland Rock ( talk) 16:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Some page history that used to be at the title "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" can now be found at Talk:Eats, Shoots & Leaves/Old history. Graham 87 14:56, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
At least references 3 and 4 are now dead links. 213.127.210.95 ( talk) 17:43, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
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I added the {{ editorial}} template here in view of the editorializing tone of statements such as "Truss bemoans the state of...", "Her goal is to remind..." "In keeping with the general lighthearted tone...", etc. Any help rewriting the article with more factual language or providing better in-text attribution for subjective statements would be appreciated. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 00:49, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
I’ll start by mentioning that I’m not familiar with British or Australian or really any other form of English other than American English. Therefore, I don’t know the different grammatical rules & whatnot. However, from what I can tell, the 2nd section (beginning with “There is one chapter”) has a confused use of serial commas & semicolons. Rather than explain each (mis)use, I’ll offer a revised version: “There is one chapter each on apostrophes, commas, semicolons, and colons; exclamation marks, question marks, and quotation marks; italic type, dashes, brackets, ellipses, and emoticons; and the last one on hyphens.” I’m not sold on “...and the last one on hyphens [sic]” because to me, the final semicolon acts as an introduction to a new complete phrase rather than a continuation of the list. Since the sentence begins, “There is one chapter each on...”, one would expect all the parts of the list to agree with the introduction. To say “there is one chapter each on bluh & bluh & the last one on hyphens” sounds awkward. Adding something as simple as the word “is” renders the final phrase as not a fragment of a larger sentence, but a complete phrase. This is OK if you instead think of the final semicolon as a separation between 2 sentences. E.g.: “There is one chapter each on bluh & bluh. The last one is on hyphens.” But since the 2 phrases are simlar enough, they can be joined with a semicolon in between. In summary, add ‘is’ between “one” & “on” to make things that much easier to read. Dfcorrea00 ( talk) 23:12, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
I'd adapt your revision to the following. "There are four chapters: apostrophes, commas, semicolons, and colons; exclamation marks, question marks, and quotation marks; italic type, dashes, brackets, ellipses, and emoticons; and finally on hyphens alone." Cross Reference ( talk) 16:50, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello all- An anonymous editor at 72.130.75.27 has been repeatedly adding what I view as an inappropriate and distracting comma after the word book in the sentence In her 2005 book Talk to the Hand, Truss acknowledges some of the criticism, obliquely admitting that much of it is warranted. The editor invokes a guide on appositives as justification, but my read of that guide runs counter to the editor's; I see the title of the book (in the sentence in question) to be what the guide calls "restrictive", as it adds essential information to the noun book. If the section were discussing a series of books, each published in a different year, I would use such a comma, as it would place stress on the year. But that is not called for in the sentence as it appears here. Despite not wanting to engage in an edit war over this, I have reverted the IP edits. Given the topic of the article, I thought it worth the effort to keep our punctuation in good order. Eric talk 12:10, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
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Overly Critical For a book which has been widely acclaimed and been a big bestseller I find it strange that this article contains such heavy criticism, including one from a comedian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.125.14.247 ( talk) 14:48, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't this redirect to the more complete Eats, Shoots and Leaves article? The book's title actually does have the "&," though. -- Waiting4beckett 16:05, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The New Yorker review is no longer available online. Remove link? John2429 20:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I was amazed to find a plethora of grammatical errors in Eats, Shoots & Leaves. And I do not like ampersands in prose! LoopZilla 17:39, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I found some mistakes too, although I didn't have a notepad to hand when reading it. I think they should be included. I might re-read it and include them. Damiancorrigan 23:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
The tag-line on the book's cover is missing a hyphen: it should be The Zero-Tolerance Approach to Punctuation. To refer to a "Tolerance Approach" doesn't make sense, nor does a "Zero Approach"! 62.56.104.146 19:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it isn't. Zero tolerance is spelled without a hyphen, and, as no commentators are named lambasting the title in the article, as well there being a [citation needed] in place, I have removed the sentence from the Criticism section. 71.51.53.206 ( talk) 07:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Honestly, what is with the first sentence in the overview? Is the bad grammar a joke?... The "and" right before "quotation marks" doesn't make one bit of sense. In addition it's an incredibly ugly run-on sentence. Might I recommend a list of chapters to replace the run-on? I would fix it myself, but given the poor writing I can't tell if: "exclamation marks, question marks, and quotation marks, italic type, dashes, brackets, ellipses, and emoticons" is referring to one or two chapters (or something else?). Did the writer of this bibliography even read this book?... 76.171.93.45 ( talk) 03:22, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I understand this conversation ‘ended’ years ago, but I’m here to revive it. As it appears in dictionary.com, “zero tolerance” is a policy (a noun), whereas “zero-tolerance” is a modifier (adjective). Look no further than the Wikipedia page Zero tolerance & you’ll see hyphenated & unhyphenated forms. However, I also understand that the point is that the criticism isn’t cited, so this was really just a belated point of order that doesn’t effect the decision. Dfcorrea00 ( talk) 22:52, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
The ampersand (&) is an often over-used abbreviation for the word and. Its use should be limited to a few situations.
This is the first sentence of All about ampersands. The article then asserts:
Do not use an ampersand in general writing simply to abbreviate the word and.
LoopZilla 08:47, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
The "eats shoots and leaves" joke with which I'm familiar is much simpler. The book in question was a dictionary rather than a wildlife manual, and it was not badly punctuated; it was simply misinterpreted. The punctuation problem in that case is that some people leave out commas, and the sentence was interpreted as if a comma had been left out. Since apparently the joke doesn't appear anywhere in "Eats, Shoots & Leaves", shouldn't the simpler form of the joke be in this article? It almost seems as if the joke has been modified to more directly suit the purposes of this book. — Deadcode 17:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
The joke is printed on the back cover of the dustjacket of my copy (UK edition) in almost exactly the form it appears in the article. Mhkay ( talk) 20:56, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The joke in the article is very different from the version printed on the back cover. And main difference is not 'the "badly-punctuated" bit' ! The joke in the article is very cruel. the version printed on the back cover is just funny ! Look here: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FdfTKVG0KfE/TyBpXVDHK6I/AAAAAAAACzE/Y4LwV5eTizc/s1600/Panda+BC+ESL.jpg and here: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7khpQf8u5M8/Tbyx5eMdJoI/AAAAAAAACRU/JP9stWpCVHw/s1600/Eats%252C%2BShoots%2Band%2BLeaves%252C%2BBack.JPG Frankly, i've got no idea for the reason why this charming joke was crippled ("maiden virtue rudely strumpeted") ? i believe that original text should be restored. Arteau ( talk) 11:16, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Why on earth is the word 'joke' linked to an article on the meaning of the word 'joke'? At this rate every single word in every single Wikipedia article could be a link: 'the' on the meaning of definite articles, 'meaning' on the meaning of meaning, and on and on.... 213.127.210.95 ( talk) 17:50, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
What is the JFB there for?
Is there really a chapter on smileys anyway??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.74.200 ( talk • contribs) 13:07, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a common joke in Australia about how Australian males are like Wombats. Why? The Wombat eats roots and leaves. The Australian male eats, roots, and leaves. Whereas roots refers to has sexual intercourse (in Australian Slang) in the latter example. May be there is a connection between this analogy (or: example of the importance of punctuation)and the title of the book?
How abouta list of examples where punctuation affects the meaning? Example: Women without her man, is nothing. Or:Women. Without her, man is nothing.-- Soylentyellow 22:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I read in the book that Hebrew did not have punctuation, and that leads to Bible translation problems. Masoretic Hebrew texts did have punctuation, its just that most people don't understand it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.203.174.171 ( talk) 23:47, August 20, 2007 (UTC)
In my copy (American) of Eats, Shoots, & Leaves, the quote is "If Lynne Truss were Roman Catholic I'd nominate her for sainthood." So I will add "Roman" to the article; it seems too important to leave out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Istillcandream ( talk • contribs) 04:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The title of this book really, really bothers me. Why? Because I hate when people don't use a serial comma. I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned. -- Cleveland Rock ( talk) 16:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Some page history that used to be at the title "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" can now be found at Talk:Eats, Shoots & Leaves/Old history. Graham 87 14:56, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
At least references 3 and 4 are now dead links. 213.127.210.95 ( talk) 17:43, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Eats, Shoots & Leaves. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:39, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
I added the {{ editorial}} template here in view of the editorializing tone of statements such as "Truss bemoans the state of...", "Her goal is to remind..." "In keeping with the general lighthearted tone...", etc. Any help rewriting the article with more factual language or providing better in-text attribution for subjective statements would be appreciated. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 00:49, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
I’ll start by mentioning that I’m not familiar with British or Australian or really any other form of English other than American English. Therefore, I don’t know the different grammatical rules & whatnot. However, from what I can tell, the 2nd section (beginning with “There is one chapter”) has a confused use of serial commas & semicolons. Rather than explain each (mis)use, I’ll offer a revised version: “There is one chapter each on apostrophes, commas, semicolons, and colons; exclamation marks, question marks, and quotation marks; italic type, dashes, brackets, ellipses, and emoticons; and the last one on hyphens.” I’m not sold on “...and the last one on hyphens [sic]” because to me, the final semicolon acts as an introduction to a new complete phrase rather than a continuation of the list. Since the sentence begins, “There is one chapter each on...”, one would expect all the parts of the list to agree with the introduction. To say “there is one chapter each on bluh & bluh & the last one on hyphens” sounds awkward. Adding something as simple as the word “is” renders the final phrase as not a fragment of a larger sentence, but a complete phrase. This is OK if you instead think of the final semicolon as a separation between 2 sentences. E.g.: “There is one chapter each on bluh & bluh. The last one is on hyphens.” But since the 2 phrases are simlar enough, they can be joined with a semicolon in between. In summary, add ‘is’ between “one” & “on” to make things that much easier to read. Dfcorrea00 ( talk) 23:12, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
I'd adapt your revision to the following. "There are four chapters: apostrophes, commas, semicolons, and colons; exclamation marks, question marks, and quotation marks; italic type, dashes, brackets, ellipses, and emoticons; and finally on hyphens alone." Cross Reference ( talk) 16:50, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello all- An anonymous editor at 72.130.75.27 has been repeatedly adding what I view as an inappropriate and distracting comma after the word book in the sentence In her 2005 book Talk to the Hand, Truss acknowledges some of the criticism, obliquely admitting that much of it is warranted. The editor invokes a guide on appositives as justification, but my read of that guide runs counter to the editor's; I see the title of the book (in the sentence in question) to be what the guide calls "restrictive", as it adds essential information to the noun book. If the section were discussing a series of books, each published in a different year, I would use such a comma, as it would place stress on the year. But that is not called for in the sentence as it appears here. Despite not wanting to engage in an edit war over this, I have reverted the IP edits. Given the topic of the article, I thought it worth the effort to keep our punctuation in good order. Eric talk 12:10, 10 August 2023 (UTC)