Well done overall! I took a bunch of notes but they're mostly prose/clarity issues (and one image question).
There are two different spellings in the taxonomy section of Demansia/Diemansia - were both used or is this a typo? Is Diemenia different from the preceding two?
The taxonomic history is a little confusing, and I'm not sure if that's because of the writing or because it really is confusing. It was moved to Pseudonaja twice - once by Krefft, and then out by Gunther, and then later back in by Worrell?
So yes, Krefft goes with Pseudonaja but then afterwards Demansia is generally used. I suspect this is because Diemenia was already
used as a bug genus in 1850. There must be something documenting this change but I have not found it. Then it is generally Demansia textilis until Worrell splits it with
this paper.Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
18:45, 22 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Since the taxonomy section makes a point of the confusion that resulted from describing juveniles and adults as separate species, do we have any pictures of juveniles available?
Not on commons, nor with the appropriate licence on flickr. There are some that are all rights reserved so I'll try and ask and see if anyone is prepared to donate anyCas Liber (
talk·contribs)
18:56, 22 April 2019 (UTC)reply
"Within the genus Pseudonaja, the eastern brown snake is unique in having a diploid pattern of 38 chromosomes" - is it the diploid pattern or the 38 chromosomes that's unique? (Presumably the latter? How many do the others have?)
In the description section, the short sentence "It has a dark tongue" is kind of awkwardly placed, and isn't too clear on whether that means all eastern brown snakes, or just the dark ones in eastern Papua New Guinea from the previous sentence. On further reading: there's a lot of sentences and clauses that start with "it"; maybe this is an ENGVAR thing but to me it would sound more natural to say "they..." or "the snakes".
Maybe a BIOLVAR as just about all reviewers of biology articles favour singular unless talking about a group of something. Have rejigged to reduce ambiguity and removed some "It"sCas Liber (
talk·contribs)
12:57, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Description section could use some wikilinks - link or explain nuchal band, link dugite and Peninsula brown snake, etc.
I think I always say this about southern hemisphere topics, but mixing seasonal descriptions and months always makes my northern-hemisphere brain stutter. Some sort of cue like "During winter, from May to September, they hibernate..." would be useful.
Speaking of which - do they hibernate or brumate? (Or both?) I always thought hibernation referred to a degree of metabolic depression that wouldn't permit brief excursions to come out and bask on the occasional warm day, but I'm a biochemist, not a real biologist :)
The behavior section says they're mostly solitary but then describes a number of examples of hibernating groups being found near houses, etc. Is it normal for them to hibernate in groups - and the notable feature of these discoveries is that they're close to buildings and people - or are these events being highlighted because the grouping is what's unusual?
I guess the gist of it is that it is unusual compared with their usual solitary nature but not uncommon either. I guess the issue is both the groups and proximity to dwellings Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
13:54, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
"The eastern brown snake reacts when confronted with one of two neck displays." - rephrase to "When confronted, the EBS reacts with one of two neck displays"? Otherwise it sounds like the critter doing the confronting is also the one doing the displaying.
The bites resulting from a full display are presumably on the upper thighs of humans, not of whatever else they might want to bite in self-defense. (Like predators? Do they have any? The only one referenced is the mulga snake, a "potential" predator. Come to think of it, does anything eat their eggs?)
On the effect of temperature on egg development: do the baby snakes develop faster at higher temperature, or do they hatch at an earlier stage of development?
I know some critters have a range of "hatching-competent" stages and can hatch anywhere in that range in response to environmental cues, but it seems to be more of an amphibian thing from a quick search. I didn't find a snake example, much less this particular one.
Opabinia regalis (
talk)
09:15, 30 April 2019 (UTC)reply
"Introduced house mice are a common prey item, though they eat mammals as large as rabbits." - I think, grammatically, this sentence involves rabbit-eating mice :) Also - aren't rabbits also introduced in Australia? Do we know what the native prey was?
tweaked - I am presuming their original prey was rodents and small marsupials (but have not seen a source concluding this). Australia has a bunch of native rodents ( Pseudomys) - the influx of feral mice was a bonanza for the speciesCas Liber (
talk·contribs)
14:06, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Larger snakes eating more warm-blooded prey: that's really interesting! Any idea why? Earlier in the article, we learn that the northern populations tend to be larger, is that related?
I know, right? Especially as the venom composition changes too. Frustratingly, the original source does not speculate much on it - it's mainly talking about the specific differences within the genus, and with other Australian elapid snakes. There is noithing written connecting the clinal size difference to the adult/juvenile prey proportionsCas Liber (
talk·contribs)
14:26, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
I think the cane toad thing came up in one of the other snake articles, but in that case they weren't learning to avoid the toads. These guys do learn, and even young snakes avoid toads? Do we know the mechanism for this - are individual snakes learning to avoid toads/not learning them as prey, or is it something else?
I like weird proteins, so I looked up textilotoxin - seems like there is newer evidence on its structure, e.g.
[1] (6 subunits, not 5). A couple of other venom papers that may be of interest -
[2],
[3]. (
This one is also interesting - small sample size, but apparently venom composition doesn't change under long-term captivity, which might be a useful piece of information.)
I think this came up in other snake articles too - do we know how many, if any, bites were by captive animals or involved snake enthusiasts vs people encountering them in the wild?
This paper, in the results section, sheds some light on that but it is for general snake bite not broken down by species....hence is too general to include here...?Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
14:40, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Not strictly necessary for GA, but since I thought of it: would indigenous populations have encountered these critters and are there any traditions/stories/names for them?
Opabinia regalis (
talk)
07:15, 22 April 2019 (UTC)reply
For the sake of bookkeeping: this article is well-written, uses reliable sources well, is broad, neutral, and stable, and is as well-illustrated as possible without new releases of appropriately licensed images. Well done, congrats!
Opabinia regalis (
talk)
09:15, 30 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Well done overall! I took a bunch of notes but they're mostly prose/clarity issues (and one image question).
There are two different spellings in the taxonomy section of Demansia/Diemansia - were both used or is this a typo? Is Diemenia different from the preceding two?
The taxonomic history is a little confusing, and I'm not sure if that's because of the writing or because it really is confusing. It was moved to Pseudonaja twice - once by Krefft, and then out by Gunther, and then later back in by Worrell?
So yes, Krefft goes with Pseudonaja but then afterwards Demansia is generally used. I suspect this is because Diemenia was already
used as a bug genus in 1850. There must be something documenting this change but I have not found it. Then it is generally Demansia textilis until Worrell splits it with
this paper.Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
18:45, 22 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Since the taxonomy section makes a point of the confusion that resulted from describing juveniles and adults as separate species, do we have any pictures of juveniles available?
Not on commons, nor with the appropriate licence on flickr. There are some that are all rights reserved so I'll try and ask and see if anyone is prepared to donate anyCas Liber (
talk·contribs)
18:56, 22 April 2019 (UTC)reply
"Within the genus Pseudonaja, the eastern brown snake is unique in having a diploid pattern of 38 chromosomes" - is it the diploid pattern or the 38 chromosomes that's unique? (Presumably the latter? How many do the others have?)
In the description section, the short sentence "It has a dark tongue" is kind of awkwardly placed, and isn't too clear on whether that means all eastern brown snakes, or just the dark ones in eastern Papua New Guinea from the previous sentence. On further reading: there's a lot of sentences and clauses that start with "it"; maybe this is an ENGVAR thing but to me it would sound more natural to say "they..." or "the snakes".
Maybe a BIOLVAR as just about all reviewers of biology articles favour singular unless talking about a group of something. Have rejigged to reduce ambiguity and removed some "It"sCas Liber (
talk·contribs)
12:57, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Description section could use some wikilinks - link or explain nuchal band, link dugite and Peninsula brown snake, etc.
I think I always say this about southern hemisphere topics, but mixing seasonal descriptions and months always makes my northern-hemisphere brain stutter. Some sort of cue like "During winter, from May to September, they hibernate..." would be useful.
Speaking of which - do they hibernate or brumate? (Or both?) I always thought hibernation referred to a degree of metabolic depression that wouldn't permit brief excursions to come out and bask on the occasional warm day, but I'm a biochemist, not a real biologist :)
The behavior section says they're mostly solitary but then describes a number of examples of hibernating groups being found near houses, etc. Is it normal for them to hibernate in groups - and the notable feature of these discoveries is that they're close to buildings and people - or are these events being highlighted because the grouping is what's unusual?
I guess the gist of it is that it is unusual compared with their usual solitary nature but not uncommon either. I guess the issue is both the groups and proximity to dwellings Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
13:54, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
"The eastern brown snake reacts when confronted with one of two neck displays." - rephrase to "When confronted, the EBS reacts with one of two neck displays"? Otherwise it sounds like the critter doing the confronting is also the one doing the displaying.
The bites resulting from a full display are presumably on the upper thighs of humans, not of whatever else they might want to bite in self-defense. (Like predators? Do they have any? The only one referenced is the mulga snake, a "potential" predator. Come to think of it, does anything eat their eggs?)
On the effect of temperature on egg development: do the baby snakes develop faster at higher temperature, or do they hatch at an earlier stage of development?
I know some critters have a range of "hatching-competent" stages and can hatch anywhere in that range in response to environmental cues, but it seems to be more of an amphibian thing from a quick search. I didn't find a snake example, much less this particular one.
Opabinia regalis (
talk)
09:15, 30 April 2019 (UTC)reply
"Introduced house mice are a common prey item, though they eat mammals as large as rabbits." - I think, grammatically, this sentence involves rabbit-eating mice :) Also - aren't rabbits also introduced in Australia? Do we know what the native prey was?
tweaked - I am presuming their original prey was rodents and small marsupials (but have not seen a source concluding this). Australia has a bunch of native rodents ( Pseudomys) - the influx of feral mice was a bonanza for the speciesCas Liber (
talk·contribs)
14:06, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Larger snakes eating more warm-blooded prey: that's really interesting! Any idea why? Earlier in the article, we learn that the northern populations tend to be larger, is that related?
I know, right? Especially as the venom composition changes too. Frustratingly, the original source does not speculate much on it - it's mainly talking about the specific differences within the genus, and with other Australian elapid snakes. There is noithing written connecting the clinal size difference to the adult/juvenile prey proportionsCas Liber (
talk·contribs)
14:26, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
I think the cane toad thing came up in one of the other snake articles, but in that case they weren't learning to avoid the toads. These guys do learn, and even young snakes avoid toads? Do we know the mechanism for this - are individual snakes learning to avoid toads/not learning them as prey, or is it something else?
I like weird proteins, so I looked up textilotoxin - seems like there is newer evidence on its structure, e.g.
[1] (6 subunits, not 5). A couple of other venom papers that may be of interest -
[2],
[3]. (
This one is also interesting - small sample size, but apparently venom composition doesn't change under long-term captivity, which might be a useful piece of information.)
I think this came up in other snake articles too - do we know how many, if any, bites were by captive animals or involved snake enthusiasts vs people encountering them in the wild?
This paper, in the results section, sheds some light on that but it is for general snake bite not broken down by species....hence is too general to include here...?Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
14:40, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Not strictly necessary for GA, but since I thought of it: would indigenous populations have encountered these critters and are there any traditions/stories/names for them?
Opabinia regalis (
talk)
07:15, 22 April 2019 (UTC)reply
For the sake of bookkeeping: this article is well-written, uses reliable sources well, is broad, neutral, and stable, and is as well-illustrated as possible without new releases of appropriately licensed images. Well done, congrats!
Opabinia regalis (
talk)
09:15, 30 April 2019 (UTC)reply