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This article is laughable; it almost reads like a Hallmark marketing promo. Well done wiki-elites for letting this one article slide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.248.119 ( talk) 18:50, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
The English word for the feast of the resurrection, Easter, differs from the feast's name in other regions. In other regions the term is "Pascha," which is derived from the word for "Passover." The word "Easter" might come from an Anglo-Saxon spring goddess. This is probably because the festival of Easter overlapped some pagan holiday in ancient England. While some have used this fact to say celebrating Easter is pagan, the fact is that only the name comes from a pagan source, probably stemming from popular usage.
Administrator Kim Dent-Brown ( talk · contribs) has been very vocal on this talk page that he will block users who add an {{npov}} tag to this article before Easter is over. Seriously. However, just about every user on this talk page has expressed concern that this article does not reflect the secular element of this holiday. In fact, the word "secular" (i.e. non-religious) appears only a single time on this article. Consensus that this article is therefore not neutral is strong, and Kim above even acknowledges this. I have previously presented some quality academic references covering this very subject, and there many others out there to be handled in turn. A few of these references:
Now, I ask, is it this acceptable administrator conduct—to decide that they will block users who add a tag to the article reflecting the state of the talk page? This is the first time I've ever seen an administrator decide that they have this ability—to block users for adding an appropriate tag because they have decided that it is inappropriate to have on the article on the day of the holiday—and I think it requires some discussion here. :bloodofox: ( talk) 12:03, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm somewhat confused by the second paragraph in this section which currently appears as: "Direct evidence for the Easter festival begins to appear in the mid-second century. Perhaps the earliest extant primary source referencing Easter is a mid-second-century Paschal homily attributed to Melito of Sardis, which characterizes the celebration as a well-established one [40]". Part of the confusion is the use of the term "Easter" when such a holiday with this name was certainly not celebrated in the second century. Also, the citation listed is a homily called "On the Passover" which doesn't seem to have anything to do with Easter. I would suggest that we remove the excerpt above until it can be rewritten or there is a better source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.102.153.10 ( talk) 20:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Should this practice be moved as it indicates it is significantly more widespread that it really is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.215.1.112 ( talk) 01:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
I did my Master's dissertation on the correlation between Pagan and Christian folklore. If someone could provide access to one of the (overpriced) academic journal subscription services, I would be happy to point out a variety of sources that state the fact that, in the early Christian Church, its leaders used Pagan holidays reworked for their purposes. By "their purposes" I am referring to the top-down patriarchal organization of society as opposed to the more gender neutral (even matriarchal leaning) and egalitarian tenancies of Paganism (as well as other pre-state based vehicles of social control. The Academic world does not question these facts, and facts are supposed to be what Wikipedia is about. What it is not supposed to be about is a particular religion or methodology's self-rationalization through ignorance or disregard for Academic consensus in favor of superstition and strict dependence on one book that has been thoroughly debunked by academics. Posimosh ( talk) 17:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm concerned about this edit by User:Futuretrillionaire today. The source he cites (some edition of a Brittanica I'd never seen before) does contain the sentence "There is now widespread consensus that the word derives from the Christian designation of Easter week as in albis, a Latin phrase that was understood as the plural of alba (“dawn”) and became eostarum in Old High German, the precursor of the modern German and English term." This does not match anything I've ever read about the etymology of English "Easter", and the transformation of "in albis" to "eostarum" doesn't sit well with the historical linguistics I studied in college. Can anybody shed some light on this? - Ben ( talk) 02:48, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
I think the way it is right now is a good compromise. Both views are presented, but the "In Albis" theory is treated as a minority view.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 23:21, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Would you please move the image of the re-enactment of the Stations of the Cross from the Eastern Christianity to the Western Christianity section.
Because it is exceptionally rare for Eastern Christians to affirm the stations of the Cross as the Roman Catholics do, and because Eastern Christians have rites which obviate the need for such reenactments, the use of the image is inaccurate.
According to the Stations of the Cross wikipedia page, the tradition of the stations emerged "in 1342 (post-Great Schism)" and furthermore: " "As part of a process of de-Latinization, the Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Church eliminated the devotion of the Stations of the Cross"". Some Western Rite Orthodox are given permission to "use post-Schism devotional materials," but even so, the practice is considered by Eastern Christians as "Western". Finally, staged reenactments are obviated by existing Good Friday services which use a painted Icon symbolically to reenact the Crucifixion (Wikipedia's entry on Good Friday explains the Eastern Christian reenactment: "Good Friday: in Eastern Christianity", similar explanations can be found offsite, here: "Great and Holy Friday".
In case a replacement image is sought: the Icon which is used during the Eastern Christian reenactment of Good Friday is already uploaded to Wikipedia to illustrate the above mentioned Good Friday entry, see here: ( "File:Agias Triados frescos cross.jpg").
I have had this query for a long time now and must ask to clarify the following part in the first sentence of the article: "the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his crucifixion". Wouldn't the third day after his crucifixion on a Friday be a Monday? Like shouldn't the first day after the crucifixion on a Friday be the Saturday? Because otherwise it's essentially saying the first day after the crucifixion on a Friday is a Friday? I can understand Easter on a Sunday being the third day of the entire event, but I have also heard Jesus resurrecting "three days and three nights" after his crucifixion. At any rate, I just don't understand why Easter is described as the third day after the crucifixion in the article. 122.58.137.66 ( talk) 04:50, 30 March 2013 (UTC
The Gospels are our source for the history of the Resurrection. St. Mark, the earliest, reports (15:42) that Jesus was buried on "the evening of the day of preparation, that is the day before the Sabbath"---the Sabbath is Saturday, so Jesus was buried on Friday evening before sunset. St. Mark continues (16:1 ff) that the women, who wanted to annoint Jesus' Body waited until the Sabbath was over, because they were observant Jews and "when the Sabbath was past" they went to do so "and very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun was risen" Since Saturday, the Sabbath, is the Seventh Day (Sabbath means seventh), Sunday, the day after Saturday, is by definition the "first day of the week". Mark also continues in 16:9, "Now when he arose early on the first day of the week, Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene..." The Bible does not prescribe three 24 hour periods for the Resurrection, just that Jesus was in the tomb on parts of three days. 108.73.44.193 ( talk) 21:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)Pastor R.
I fianlly found what you were talking about and agree. I think that it is just a poor choice of wording and should be corrected to more clearly reflect the scriptural idea that it was "on" the third day, not "3 days after"----that is confusing, especially to someone who is not closely acquainted with the thinking. 108.73.44.193 ( talk) 16:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)Pastor R
Of course, the main problem is that "Orthodox Christianity" has ignored the Gospel of John, as well as the Mosaic Law, in determining what day Jesus was crucified. The reality is that John 19:31, which EXPLICITLY states that the next day was a HIGH Sabbath...one of the SPECIAL Sabbaths held throughout the year, in conjunction with the Feasts. It was A Sabbath, not THE Sabbath, which mainstream Christianity has utterly ignored for 1700 years. The reality is that Jesus was crucified on WEDNESDAY, NOT Friday, and Thursday was the High Sabbath, Friday was the normal Preparation Day, and Saturday was THE Sabbath. That clears up the contradiction between Mark and Luke, wherein they BOUGHT spices AFTER the Sabbath was over, then PREPARED those spices before the Sabbath.
So why is "Orthodox Christianity" so married to "Good Friday"? Pride, rebellion, stubbornness, worthless tradition. "This is how we've always done it", despite the fact that the Gospel witnesses tell a DIFFERENT story. This whole Hebrew nonsense of "part days being a day" is rationalization that doesn't work. 208.127.20.37 ( talk) 21:28, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Why is the clear pagan name and festival celebrating Ishtar/Asherah/Ashtoreth, from which the name "Easter" is properly derived, completely ignored in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.20.37 ( talk) 21:41, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
The following sentence should be edited:
Christians of Jewish origin were the first to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. Since the date of the resurrection was close the timing of Passover, they likely celebrated the resurrection as a new facet of the Passover festival.[17]
It should read:
Christians of Jewish origin were the first to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. Since the date of the resurrection was close to the timing of Passover, they likely celebrated the resurrection as a new facet of the Passover festival.[17]
notice the addition of the preposition "to" betwen "close" and "the". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaughn007 ( talk • contribs) 16:11, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
Eusebius quotes a letter sent from Polycrates in his book, " History of the church" they are refusing to follow the church of Romeos view of celebrating Passover on Sunday instead of Nissan 14.Here is what Eusebius records that Polycrates wrote,
We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. AndPolycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead ? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man'...I could mention the bishops who were present, whom I summoned at your desire; whose names, should I write them, would constitute a great multitude. And they, beholding my littleness, gave their consent to the letter, knowing that I did not bear my gray hairs in vain, but had always governed my life by the Lord Jesus (Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book V, Chapter XXIV, Verses 2-7 . Translated by A. Cushman McGiffert. Digireads.com Publishing, Stilwell (KS), 2005, p. 114). I think your whole article needs to be re written . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.85.117.199 ( talk • contribs)
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Historically, Western churches used the Gregorian Calendar to calculate the date of Easter and Eastern Orthodox churches used the Julian Calendar. This was partly why the dates were seldom the same.
Easter and its related holidays do not fall on a fixed date in either the Gregorian or Julian calendars, making them movable holidays. The dates, instead, are based on a lunar calendar very similar to the Hebrew Calendar.
While some Eastern Orthodox Churches not only maintain the date of Easter based on the Julian Calendar which was in use during the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325 A.D., they also use the actual, astronomical full moon and the actual vernal equinox as observed along the meridian of Jerusalem. This complicates the matter, due to the inaccuracy of the Julian calendar, and the 13 days that have accrued since A.D. 325. This means, in order to stay in line with the originally established (325 A.D.) vernal equinox, Orthodox Easter cannot be celebrated before April 3 (present day Gregorian calendar), which was March 21 in A.D. 325.
Additionally, in keeping with the rule established by the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea, the Eastern Orthodox Church adhered to the tradition that Easter must always fall after the Jewish Passover, since the resurrection of Christ happened after the celebration of Passover. Eventually the Orthodox Church came up with an alternative to calculating Easter based on the Gregorian calendar and Passover, and developed a 19-year cycle, as opposed to the Western Church 84-year cycle.
Since the days of early church history, determining the precise date of Easter has been a matter for continued argument. For one, the followers of Christ neglected to record the exact date of Jesus' resurrection. From then on the matter grew increasingly complex
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I find:
"The date of Easter therefore varies between 22 March and 25 April."
Please add "inclusive" at the end of that sentence, because Easter can fall on March 22 and on April 25. (It was March 22 in 1818 but that won't happen again until 2285. It was April 25 in 1943 and will be on that day again in 2038. Check list of Easter dates.)
128.63.16.20 ( talk) 20:30, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Hello folks. There's been an exchange between myself and another user on the article space regarding citing Ronald Hutton's Stations of the Sun and Hans Hillerbrand's Encyclopedia Brittanica article as minority views against the generally accepted etymology. The problem is primarily this; neither Hutton nor Hillerbrand have the historical linguistics background necessary make a call like this and should not be cited when discussing this etymology. The Encyclopedia Brittanica article is also problematic beyond this. Right now, "generally accepted" is wording that implies that there is some dissent, but that this is the majority view. Isn't that enough for a summary? :bloodofox: ( talk) 19:51, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Like Christmas, and especially in America, Easter can be quite secular. Many families celebrate Easter with a gift basket of candy and an Easter egg hunt, totally devoid of mention of anything Christian. We really need a section on this. Right now the article has nothing whatsoever on it. :bloodofox: ( talk) 04:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
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This page needs to be edited because it contains information which is completely false. Easter is NOT a Christian festival and holiday celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his crucifixion at Calvary as described in the New Testament. The Christian festival and holiday celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his crucifixion at Calvary as described in the New Testament is called the Resurrection celebration or the anniversary of the Resurrection. It has nothing to do with Easter, which is a pagan holiday celebrating and worshipping the pagan Teutonic goddess Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of springtime, fertility, and motherhood. This pagan celebration has as its fertility symbol a hare in Europe and a bunny rabbit in North America, because of their rapid fertility rate, symbolized by the Easter egg. However, this is also a wrong symbol to associate together with a hare or a rabbit because they do not lay eggs. They are viviporous (like humans) not oviporous. The females have eggs, but they carry them inside their bodies full term until their water breaks and then the offspring emerges. So hares and bunny rabbits do not lay eggs! What is said in this article about the Christian festival and holiday celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his crucifixion at Calvary should be listed under another article entitled "Resurrection celebration" or "anniversary celebration of the resurrection". Somebody who was very confused about these two completely separate events and festivals has mixed them together as though they were one festival or holiday. They are instead two completely separate festivals or holidays with completely separate origins and are celebrated by different groups of people. Easter is a pagan celebration which is observed by pagans and those who hold to ancient and classical mythology of polytheism. Christians, on the other hand, do not celebrate nor worship pagan idols nor the gods or goddesses of mythological polytheism. Instead, they celebrate and worship the risen Savior and Lord Jesus Christ, whose resurrection is celebrated annually on the anniversary of it in the spring. These two fetivals and holidays should not be confused as they have in this article. Kerryyarbrough ( talk) 00:30, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Each year around this time we get the same questions regarding the etymology, origins and history of Easter, and many of us spent time hunting down previous discussions in the archives to point people to. I've added a FAQ template, and will be filling it with some of the headers I've proposed in the past, including the four mentioned in [1] as well as "This article doesn't match what I read on ReligiousTolerance.org". - Ben ( talk) 13:53, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
The article is protected, therefore could somebody please add the source to Paul's quote from the etymology secion ("Christ our Pascha has been sacrificed for us"). It's from 1 Cor. 5:6-8. The wording is different in different translations, people may want to check it out. Also, is there a consensus on Wikipedia which translation should be used? 37.144.73.59 ( talk) 08:55, 13 April 2014 (UTC), Alexander
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There is no reliable source quoted for the Ishtar origin of the word Easter. There's only a link to http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html. Please remove that or produce a reputable quote. Deroude ( talk) 12:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
:Done - Ben ( talk) 12:32, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
As a Culture Studies PhD with some particular interests in this area, I am offended greatly by this article. Which seems clearly written by a religious dogmatist.
This article clearly to be sure announces its aim: this is an account it tells us, of the "Christian" celebration. But clearly it has left out dozens of other-cultural predecessors, the larger anthropological/mythic context, and them dozens of historical traditions that lead up to this holiday.
This is NOT a scholarly article; it is an exercise in church dogmatics, that asserts no other origin for this typical spring celebration than God, or Jahweh.
We need a few ANE historians and cultural anthropologists, to fill this account out. By looking at results from many other cultures in this area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.111.98.158 ( talk) 13:59, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
So make an article about it's predecessors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.1.124.211 ( talk) 00:43, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
I can't believe that, with all the information available, some people are still attempting to downplay or even deny the obvious Jewish and pre-Christian ('pagan') roots of the European celebration of Easter. It didn't spring from the earth fully formed in AD 50 and maintain that form unchanged until today, yet that is definitely the tone of some people's writing. I have looked through a number of Easter-related Wikipedia pages, and it seems to me that this is a problem common to most of them. Heavenlyblue ( talk) 23:33, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
This edit by User:Hazhk quotes an 1881 popular magazine as its source. Can we find a better source? Being suspicious of Mesopotamian origins for anything Easter-related, it stuck out at me. - Ben ( talk) 13:33, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
This is obviously Aramaic, not Hebrew. Why does Wikipedia in various languages stubbornly say that it is Hebrew? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omegsi1 ( talk • contribs) 14:40, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
The word is plainly Aramaic, and unless I missed something, whatever Wiktionary has, Wikipedia in various languages says that it is Hebrew. Of course, this is a detail, and of course the Aramaic word may have been a calque on the Hebrew, but it plainly is not Hebrew. The source moreover that is repeatedly cited in Wikipedia for it being Hebrew is a survey of European history by a well-known historian (though one much criticized precisely for numerous errors of detail, and not any respectable source on Semitic languages and etymology. In short, this is a minor but I submit striking example of how Wikipedia recycles published errors. The word anyway is Aramaic, and I hope no one disputes this. It may be that its usage was influenced by Hebrew. But it wears its Aramaic origin on its face: it is NOT a Hebrew loanword in Aramaic, which is what "through Aramaic from Hebrew" would tend to suggest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.247.243.1 ( talk) 16:42, 21 April 2014 (UTC) So I just sits and waits to see if anyone authorized to edit this page--since of course I am not--will ever change this error. Just saying... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.247.243.1 ( talk) 12:37, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
92.247.243.1, no objection about Aramaic origins (I don't know personally if they're right, but wouldn't be surprised to find they are). Still, the etymologies are now getting pretty weighty for the lead sentence and paragraph, and actually they are not the critical point. This level of detail might better go later. Much more central is 1 Cor 5:7: "Christ, our Passover, is sacrificed for us". That's why the words for Passover are connected to the Greek and Latin "Pascha". Pascha is not just the day of celebration of Christ's resurrection. Pascha is Christ Himself, the one who died. In Judaism, the "Pascal" lamb was sacrificed in order to celebrate Passover, and in Christianity, Christ's sacrifice, and at the time of Passover too, leads Christians out of a life of subjugation to sin and towards the promised land of God's Heavenly Kingdom. In Orthodox language, the Jewish Passover is the representative "type", and the Christian Passover is its fulfillment in the New Covenant. The etymologies are reflective of the religious meaning, not the cause of the religious meaning. Evensteven ( talk) 03:14, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
I find it interesting that nonsense gets put in Wikipedia, and stays there for a very long time, and when someone (in this case me) challenges it, people either ignore this or say it does not matter. If it did not matter, then the false Hebrew "etymology" also should not have mattered and should not have been there. Yet at the time this nonsense was inserted, as the record shows, no one said that it did not matter. This goes to the very heart of whether Wikipedia can actually serve to correct commonly repeated errors or whether it is simply supposed to canonize them. Obviously, anyway, there are many people who do care about when Jews stopped speaking Hebrew and switched to Aramaic, and whether Jesus and his disciples spoke one or the other. Millions of people apparently, maybe even billions. And the possibility that some Jewish terms were borrowed from Hebrew in the Western Roman Empire but from Aramaic in the Eastern seems like something that may one day even merit a Wikipedia article of its own. But the basic point that I think we have just seen is a kind of attempt to control opinion by first making it impossible for someone like to correct such a flagrant error at all, and then, when a someone with a proper status in the Wikipedia food chain does correct it because I called it to their attention, to claim that it does not matter. Is THIS what Wikipedia is supposed to be about? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.247.243.1 ( talk) 18:09, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Recently the section on Etymology has been acquiring increasing amounts of technical minutiae. These would be more appropriate in the main article on the Names of Easter. Before I dive in and boldly delete the new material, I suggest those involved would be better equipped to move it properly to the main article. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 20:42, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
I am not opposing Bloodofox's sources in reverting the latest edit, only desiring that the article remain in its prior state until the nature of changes should be decided by discussion. Evensteven ( talk) 19:16, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 |
This article is laughable; it almost reads like a Hallmark marketing promo. Well done wiki-elites for letting this one article slide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.248.119 ( talk) 18:50, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
The English word for the feast of the resurrection, Easter, differs from the feast's name in other regions. In other regions the term is "Pascha," which is derived from the word for "Passover." The word "Easter" might come from an Anglo-Saxon spring goddess. This is probably because the festival of Easter overlapped some pagan holiday in ancient England. While some have used this fact to say celebrating Easter is pagan, the fact is that only the name comes from a pagan source, probably stemming from popular usage.
Administrator Kim Dent-Brown ( talk · contribs) has been very vocal on this talk page that he will block users who add an {{npov}} tag to this article before Easter is over. Seriously. However, just about every user on this talk page has expressed concern that this article does not reflect the secular element of this holiday. In fact, the word "secular" (i.e. non-religious) appears only a single time on this article. Consensus that this article is therefore not neutral is strong, and Kim above even acknowledges this. I have previously presented some quality academic references covering this very subject, and there many others out there to be handled in turn. A few of these references:
Now, I ask, is it this acceptable administrator conduct—to decide that they will block users who add a tag to the article reflecting the state of the talk page? This is the first time I've ever seen an administrator decide that they have this ability—to block users for adding an appropriate tag because they have decided that it is inappropriate to have on the article on the day of the holiday—and I think it requires some discussion here. :bloodofox: ( talk) 12:03, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm somewhat confused by the second paragraph in this section which currently appears as: "Direct evidence for the Easter festival begins to appear in the mid-second century. Perhaps the earliest extant primary source referencing Easter is a mid-second-century Paschal homily attributed to Melito of Sardis, which characterizes the celebration as a well-established one [40]". Part of the confusion is the use of the term "Easter" when such a holiday with this name was certainly not celebrated in the second century. Also, the citation listed is a homily called "On the Passover" which doesn't seem to have anything to do with Easter. I would suggest that we remove the excerpt above until it can be rewritten or there is a better source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.102.153.10 ( talk) 20:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Should this practice be moved as it indicates it is significantly more widespread that it really is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.215.1.112 ( talk) 01:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
I did my Master's dissertation on the correlation between Pagan and Christian folklore. If someone could provide access to one of the (overpriced) academic journal subscription services, I would be happy to point out a variety of sources that state the fact that, in the early Christian Church, its leaders used Pagan holidays reworked for their purposes. By "their purposes" I am referring to the top-down patriarchal organization of society as opposed to the more gender neutral (even matriarchal leaning) and egalitarian tenancies of Paganism (as well as other pre-state based vehicles of social control. The Academic world does not question these facts, and facts are supposed to be what Wikipedia is about. What it is not supposed to be about is a particular religion or methodology's self-rationalization through ignorance or disregard for Academic consensus in favor of superstition and strict dependence on one book that has been thoroughly debunked by academics. Posimosh ( talk) 17:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm concerned about this edit by User:Futuretrillionaire today. The source he cites (some edition of a Brittanica I'd never seen before) does contain the sentence "There is now widespread consensus that the word derives from the Christian designation of Easter week as in albis, a Latin phrase that was understood as the plural of alba (“dawn”) and became eostarum in Old High German, the precursor of the modern German and English term." This does not match anything I've ever read about the etymology of English "Easter", and the transformation of "in albis" to "eostarum" doesn't sit well with the historical linguistics I studied in college. Can anybody shed some light on this? - Ben ( talk) 02:48, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
I think the way it is right now is a good compromise. Both views are presented, but the "In Albis" theory is treated as a minority view.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 23:21, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Would you please move the image of the re-enactment of the Stations of the Cross from the Eastern Christianity to the Western Christianity section.
Because it is exceptionally rare for Eastern Christians to affirm the stations of the Cross as the Roman Catholics do, and because Eastern Christians have rites which obviate the need for such reenactments, the use of the image is inaccurate.
According to the Stations of the Cross wikipedia page, the tradition of the stations emerged "in 1342 (post-Great Schism)" and furthermore: " "As part of a process of de-Latinization, the Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Church eliminated the devotion of the Stations of the Cross"". Some Western Rite Orthodox are given permission to "use post-Schism devotional materials," but even so, the practice is considered by Eastern Christians as "Western". Finally, staged reenactments are obviated by existing Good Friday services which use a painted Icon symbolically to reenact the Crucifixion (Wikipedia's entry on Good Friday explains the Eastern Christian reenactment: "Good Friday: in Eastern Christianity", similar explanations can be found offsite, here: "Great and Holy Friday".
In case a replacement image is sought: the Icon which is used during the Eastern Christian reenactment of Good Friday is already uploaded to Wikipedia to illustrate the above mentioned Good Friday entry, see here: ( "File:Agias Triados frescos cross.jpg").
I have had this query for a long time now and must ask to clarify the following part in the first sentence of the article: "the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his crucifixion". Wouldn't the third day after his crucifixion on a Friday be a Monday? Like shouldn't the first day after the crucifixion on a Friday be the Saturday? Because otherwise it's essentially saying the first day after the crucifixion on a Friday is a Friday? I can understand Easter on a Sunday being the third day of the entire event, but I have also heard Jesus resurrecting "three days and three nights" after his crucifixion. At any rate, I just don't understand why Easter is described as the third day after the crucifixion in the article. 122.58.137.66 ( talk) 04:50, 30 March 2013 (UTC
The Gospels are our source for the history of the Resurrection. St. Mark, the earliest, reports (15:42) that Jesus was buried on "the evening of the day of preparation, that is the day before the Sabbath"---the Sabbath is Saturday, so Jesus was buried on Friday evening before sunset. St. Mark continues (16:1 ff) that the women, who wanted to annoint Jesus' Body waited until the Sabbath was over, because they were observant Jews and "when the Sabbath was past" they went to do so "and very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun was risen" Since Saturday, the Sabbath, is the Seventh Day (Sabbath means seventh), Sunday, the day after Saturday, is by definition the "first day of the week". Mark also continues in 16:9, "Now when he arose early on the first day of the week, Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene..." The Bible does not prescribe three 24 hour periods for the Resurrection, just that Jesus was in the tomb on parts of three days. 108.73.44.193 ( talk) 21:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)Pastor R.
I fianlly found what you were talking about and agree. I think that it is just a poor choice of wording and should be corrected to more clearly reflect the scriptural idea that it was "on" the third day, not "3 days after"----that is confusing, especially to someone who is not closely acquainted with the thinking. 108.73.44.193 ( talk) 16:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)Pastor R
Of course, the main problem is that "Orthodox Christianity" has ignored the Gospel of John, as well as the Mosaic Law, in determining what day Jesus was crucified. The reality is that John 19:31, which EXPLICITLY states that the next day was a HIGH Sabbath...one of the SPECIAL Sabbaths held throughout the year, in conjunction with the Feasts. It was A Sabbath, not THE Sabbath, which mainstream Christianity has utterly ignored for 1700 years. The reality is that Jesus was crucified on WEDNESDAY, NOT Friday, and Thursday was the High Sabbath, Friday was the normal Preparation Day, and Saturday was THE Sabbath. That clears up the contradiction between Mark and Luke, wherein they BOUGHT spices AFTER the Sabbath was over, then PREPARED those spices before the Sabbath.
So why is "Orthodox Christianity" so married to "Good Friday"? Pride, rebellion, stubbornness, worthless tradition. "This is how we've always done it", despite the fact that the Gospel witnesses tell a DIFFERENT story. This whole Hebrew nonsense of "part days being a day" is rationalization that doesn't work. 208.127.20.37 ( talk) 21:28, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Why is the clear pagan name and festival celebrating Ishtar/Asherah/Ashtoreth, from which the name "Easter" is properly derived, completely ignored in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.20.37 ( talk) 21:41, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
The following sentence should be edited:
Christians of Jewish origin were the first to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. Since the date of the resurrection was close the timing of Passover, they likely celebrated the resurrection as a new facet of the Passover festival.[17]
It should read:
Christians of Jewish origin were the first to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. Since the date of the resurrection was close to the timing of Passover, they likely celebrated the resurrection as a new facet of the Passover festival.[17]
notice the addition of the preposition "to" betwen "close" and "the". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaughn007 ( talk • contribs) 16:11, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
Eusebius quotes a letter sent from Polycrates in his book, " History of the church" they are refusing to follow the church of Romeos view of celebrating Passover on Sunday instead of Nissan 14.Here is what Eusebius records that Polycrates wrote,
We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. AndPolycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead ? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man'...I could mention the bishops who were present, whom I summoned at your desire; whose names, should I write them, would constitute a great multitude. And they, beholding my littleness, gave their consent to the letter, knowing that I did not bear my gray hairs in vain, but had always governed my life by the Lord Jesus (Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book V, Chapter XXIV, Verses 2-7 . Translated by A. Cushman McGiffert. Digireads.com Publishing, Stilwell (KS), 2005, p. 114). I think your whole article needs to be re written . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.85.117.199 ( talk • contribs)
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Historically, Western churches used the Gregorian Calendar to calculate the date of Easter and Eastern Orthodox churches used the Julian Calendar. This was partly why the dates were seldom the same.
Easter and its related holidays do not fall on a fixed date in either the Gregorian or Julian calendars, making them movable holidays. The dates, instead, are based on a lunar calendar very similar to the Hebrew Calendar.
While some Eastern Orthodox Churches not only maintain the date of Easter based on the Julian Calendar which was in use during the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325 A.D., they also use the actual, astronomical full moon and the actual vernal equinox as observed along the meridian of Jerusalem. This complicates the matter, due to the inaccuracy of the Julian calendar, and the 13 days that have accrued since A.D. 325. This means, in order to stay in line with the originally established (325 A.D.) vernal equinox, Orthodox Easter cannot be celebrated before April 3 (present day Gregorian calendar), which was March 21 in A.D. 325.
Additionally, in keeping with the rule established by the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea, the Eastern Orthodox Church adhered to the tradition that Easter must always fall after the Jewish Passover, since the resurrection of Christ happened after the celebration of Passover. Eventually the Orthodox Church came up with an alternative to calculating Easter based on the Gregorian calendar and Passover, and developed a 19-year cycle, as opposed to the Western Church 84-year cycle.
Since the days of early church history, determining the precise date of Easter has been a matter for continued argument. For one, the followers of Christ neglected to record the exact date of Jesus' resurrection. From then on the matter grew increasingly complex
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I find:
"The date of Easter therefore varies between 22 March and 25 April."
Please add "inclusive" at the end of that sentence, because Easter can fall on March 22 and on April 25. (It was March 22 in 1818 but that won't happen again until 2285. It was April 25 in 1943 and will be on that day again in 2038. Check list of Easter dates.)
128.63.16.20 ( talk) 20:30, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Hello folks. There's been an exchange between myself and another user on the article space regarding citing Ronald Hutton's Stations of the Sun and Hans Hillerbrand's Encyclopedia Brittanica article as minority views against the generally accepted etymology. The problem is primarily this; neither Hutton nor Hillerbrand have the historical linguistics background necessary make a call like this and should not be cited when discussing this etymology. The Encyclopedia Brittanica article is also problematic beyond this. Right now, "generally accepted" is wording that implies that there is some dissent, but that this is the majority view. Isn't that enough for a summary? :bloodofox: ( talk) 19:51, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Like Christmas, and especially in America, Easter can be quite secular. Many families celebrate Easter with a gift basket of candy and an Easter egg hunt, totally devoid of mention of anything Christian. We really need a section on this. Right now the article has nothing whatsoever on it. :bloodofox: ( talk) 04:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
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This page needs to be edited because it contains information which is completely false. Easter is NOT a Christian festival and holiday celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his crucifixion at Calvary as described in the New Testament. The Christian festival and holiday celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his crucifixion at Calvary as described in the New Testament is called the Resurrection celebration or the anniversary of the Resurrection. It has nothing to do with Easter, which is a pagan holiday celebrating and worshipping the pagan Teutonic goddess Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of springtime, fertility, and motherhood. This pagan celebration has as its fertility symbol a hare in Europe and a bunny rabbit in North America, because of their rapid fertility rate, symbolized by the Easter egg. However, this is also a wrong symbol to associate together with a hare or a rabbit because they do not lay eggs. They are viviporous (like humans) not oviporous. The females have eggs, but they carry them inside their bodies full term until their water breaks and then the offspring emerges. So hares and bunny rabbits do not lay eggs! What is said in this article about the Christian festival and holiday celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his crucifixion at Calvary should be listed under another article entitled "Resurrection celebration" or "anniversary celebration of the resurrection". Somebody who was very confused about these two completely separate events and festivals has mixed them together as though they were one festival or holiday. They are instead two completely separate festivals or holidays with completely separate origins and are celebrated by different groups of people. Easter is a pagan celebration which is observed by pagans and those who hold to ancient and classical mythology of polytheism. Christians, on the other hand, do not celebrate nor worship pagan idols nor the gods or goddesses of mythological polytheism. Instead, they celebrate and worship the risen Savior and Lord Jesus Christ, whose resurrection is celebrated annually on the anniversary of it in the spring. These two fetivals and holidays should not be confused as they have in this article. Kerryyarbrough ( talk) 00:30, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Each year around this time we get the same questions regarding the etymology, origins and history of Easter, and many of us spent time hunting down previous discussions in the archives to point people to. I've added a FAQ template, and will be filling it with some of the headers I've proposed in the past, including the four mentioned in [1] as well as "This article doesn't match what I read on ReligiousTolerance.org". - Ben ( talk) 13:53, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
The article is protected, therefore could somebody please add the source to Paul's quote from the etymology secion ("Christ our Pascha has been sacrificed for us"). It's from 1 Cor. 5:6-8. The wording is different in different translations, people may want to check it out. Also, is there a consensus on Wikipedia which translation should be used? 37.144.73.59 ( talk) 08:55, 13 April 2014 (UTC), Alexander
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There is no reliable source quoted for the Ishtar origin of the word Easter. There's only a link to http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html. Please remove that or produce a reputable quote. Deroude ( talk) 12:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
:Done - Ben ( talk) 12:32, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
As a Culture Studies PhD with some particular interests in this area, I am offended greatly by this article. Which seems clearly written by a religious dogmatist.
This article clearly to be sure announces its aim: this is an account it tells us, of the "Christian" celebration. But clearly it has left out dozens of other-cultural predecessors, the larger anthropological/mythic context, and them dozens of historical traditions that lead up to this holiday.
This is NOT a scholarly article; it is an exercise in church dogmatics, that asserts no other origin for this typical spring celebration than God, or Jahweh.
We need a few ANE historians and cultural anthropologists, to fill this account out. By looking at results from many other cultures in this area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.111.98.158 ( talk) 13:59, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
So make an article about it's predecessors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.1.124.211 ( talk) 00:43, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
I can't believe that, with all the information available, some people are still attempting to downplay or even deny the obvious Jewish and pre-Christian ('pagan') roots of the European celebration of Easter. It didn't spring from the earth fully formed in AD 50 and maintain that form unchanged until today, yet that is definitely the tone of some people's writing. I have looked through a number of Easter-related Wikipedia pages, and it seems to me that this is a problem common to most of them. Heavenlyblue ( talk) 23:33, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
This edit by User:Hazhk quotes an 1881 popular magazine as its source. Can we find a better source? Being suspicious of Mesopotamian origins for anything Easter-related, it stuck out at me. - Ben ( talk) 13:33, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
This is obviously Aramaic, not Hebrew. Why does Wikipedia in various languages stubbornly say that it is Hebrew? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omegsi1 ( talk • contribs) 14:40, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
The word is plainly Aramaic, and unless I missed something, whatever Wiktionary has, Wikipedia in various languages says that it is Hebrew. Of course, this is a detail, and of course the Aramaic word may have been a calque on the Hebrew, but it plainly is not Hebrew. The source moreover that is repeatedly cited in Wikipedia for it being Hebrew is a survey of European history by a well-known historian (though one much criticized precisely for numerous errors of detail, and not any respectable source on Semitic languages and etymology. In short, this is a minor but I submit striking example of how Wikipedia recycles published errors. The word anyway is Aramaic, and I hope no one disputes this. It may be that its usage was influenced by Hebrew. But it wears its Aramaic origin on its face: it is NOT a Hebrew loanword in Aramaic, which is what "through Aramaic from Hebrew" would tend to suggest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.247.243.1 ( talk) 16:42, 21 April 2014 (UTC) So I just sits and waits to see if anyone authorized to edit this page--since of course I am not--will ever change this error. Just saying... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.247.243.1 ( talk) 12:37, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
92.247.243.1, no objection about Aramaic origins (I don't know personally if they're right, but wouldn't be surprised to find they are). Still, the etymologies are now getting pretty weighty for the lead sentence and paragraph, and actually they are not the critical point. This level of detail might better go later. Much more central is 1 Cor 5:7: "Christ, our Passover, is sacrificed for us". That's why the words for Passover are connected to the Greek and Latin "Pascha". Pascha is not just the day of celebration of Christ's resurrection. Pascha is Christ Himself, the one who died. In Judaism, the "Pascal" lamb was sacrificed in order to celebrate Passover, and in Christianity, Christ's sacrifice, and at the time of Passover too, leads Christians out of a life of subjugation to sin and towards the promised land of God's Heavenly Kingdom. In Orthodox language, the Jewish Passover is the representative "type", and the Christian Passover is its fulfillment in the New Covenant. The etymologies are reflective of the religious meaning, not the cause of the religious meaning. Evensteven ( talk) 03:14, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
I find it interesting that nonsense gets put in Wikipedia, and stays there for a very long time, and when someone (in this case me) challenges it, people either ignore this or say it does not matter. If it did not matter, then the false Hebrew "etymology" also should not have mattered and should not have been there. Yet at the time this nonsense was inserted, as the record shows, no one said that it did not matter. This goes to the very heart of whether Wikipedia can actually serve to correct commonly repeated errors or whether it is simply supposed to canonize them. Obviously, anyway, there are many people who do care about when Jews stopped speaking Hebrew and switched to Aramaic, and whether Jesus and his disciples spoke one or the other. Millions of people apparently, maybe even billions. And the possibility that some Jewish terms were borrowed from Hebrew in the Western Roman Empire but from Aramaic in the Eastern seems like something that may one day even merit a Wikipedia article of its own. But the basic point that I think we have just seen is a kind of attempt to control opinion by first making it impossible for someone like to correct such a flagrant error at all, and then, when a someone with a proper status in the Wikipedia food chain does correct it because I called it to their attention, to claim that it does not matter. Is THIS what Wikipedia is supposed to be about? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.247.243.1 ( talk) 18:09, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Recently the section on Etymology has been acquiring increasing amounts of technical minutiae. These would be more appropriate in the main article on the Names of Easter. Before I dive in and boldly delete the new material, I suggest those involved would be better equipped to move it properly to the main article. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 20:42, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
I am not opposing Bloodofox's sources in reverting the latest edit, only desiring that the article remain in its prior state until the nature of changes should be decided by discussion. Evensteven ( talk) 19:16, 1 September 2014 (UTC)