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East London Mosque article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Someone may wish to reflect these articles here, here, and here.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 19:06, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
The London Muslim Centre used to have a separate Wikipedia entry, but was later incorporated in the East London Mosque entry. However, the boxed entry about Architectural information refers only to the mosque, not the adjoining centre or new Phase 2 expansion. What is the best way to present all the information correctly? UsamahWard ( talk) 14:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
I note someone has added details of the most recent architects. UsamahWard ( talk) 13:17, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Is the box 'British Bangladeshis' really appropriate for this article? UsamahWard ( talk) 14:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
This article needs a lot more work on it for example there is no mention of the Gilligan allegations even though it is covered by a major paper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.222.144.238 ( talk) 19:50, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
I live in this mosque. As I said, Dr Bari is still the chairman of this mosque. Regarding the imams and muezzin, were added when this article were created. This mosque has 2 domes. Look in google maps, the second dome is above the al baraka restaurant. Fisingi ( talk) 18:34, 23 April 2014 (UTC) You are copying from here. http://www.eastlondonmosque.org.uk/content/management Habibur rahman is abdul bari's son. Fisingi ( talk) 18:44, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
I may have broken the 3RR myself, I didn't know about it, so I must apologise. Fisingi is clearly mistaken. I won't try to correct it again now, because of 3RR. Inpeacebase ( talk) 19:02, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
There have been more edits of the leadership section without further discussion here. The info box now wrongly states Muhammad Abdul Bari as the "Ex President". The leadership of the mosque is clearly explained on its own website. The edits that have ignored this have not been sourced at all, other than by claims of living near or even in the mosque. Inpeacebase ( talk) 15:39, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Wrong? In these last days the user
Fisingi,
UsamahWard and
Inpeacebase are editing the leadership of this article.
My last edit was a reliable source. Muhammad Abdul Bari was the chairman of this mosque, so it means he is the Ex President. The user
Fisingi deleted the chief imam of this mosque from the leadership. After that I added back him . Then the user
User:Manspacey undid my edit , so it means he supported the user
Fisingi. For that reason I have contacted and admin to be sure if
User:Manspacey belonged
Fisingi. But I did a mistake! The Admin have found that the
UsamahWard's IP adress is the same of the
User:Manspacey. So it means
UsamahWard is a sockpuppet, in fact after few days there will be a sockpuppet investigation about him.
Rinfoli {
*Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 16:43, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Rinfoli, chairman and president are not the same thing. Why include a former chairman in the leadership? Inpeacebase ( talk) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Admin Rinfoli, why did you think that I was a sockpuppet? This is my only account. That usamahward is a sockpuppet and vandal. Not me. Fisingi ( talk) 17:45, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
UsamahWard are you working in this mosque? An admin have found that your IP adress is the same of
User:Manspacey.
We're still not sure that you are sockpuppet, in fact we will make a sockpuppet investigations.
Inpeacebase In my language chairman and president are same thing. The chairman of a college is even the president of a college. Have you understood? YOU asked why include a former chairman in the leadership? Why not. Dr.
Muhammad Abdul Bari was the president of this mosque for many years, and he has an article in wikipedia as well. Many people believe that he founded this mosque, although this mosque was built in 1910. So why we shouldn't mention him???
Sorry
Fisingi, I am not an admin, I thought that you were a sockpuppet because
User:Manspacey undid my edit. With regard to your edit, the other dome doesn't belong to this mosque. Then, S. Habibur Rahman is not Dr.
Muhammad Abdul Bari's son. Habirur Rahman is from Sylhet instead dr
Muhammad Abdul Bari from Tangail. If you live near at the mosque, we can meet.
Rinfoli {
*Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 18:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
I uploaded the image of this mosque where there is written that "which is one of the only and first mosques in Europe which are allowed to broadcast the adhan".I have only copied from this article and just it. Why don't you want to include the former chairman'name and imam's name in infobox? The imams name was included since this aRticle was created. . Rinfoli { *Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 08:25, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
the imams must be here, and there are 2 domes in that mosque, and we do not need to add chairman in template box, we need only imam. Then habibur rahman is the son of abdul bari, he looks like him. why you people do not undestrand?
Fisingi (
talk) 10:03, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
UsamahWard If I changed back the number of domes to 2, it was certainly mistake, it is happened when I undid something. For leadership you don't have to mention only the current chairman. You could add the older one as well.
President is also a synonim of chairman, but it doesn't matter I've changed it.
Fisingi I am tired to explain and answer you. .
Rinfoli {
*Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 10:29, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
UsamahWard I said that the imams were added when this article wasr created. So now why do you want delete all of them?? Nothing happens whether there are some imams name in this infobox. Rinfoli { *Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 10:50, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Fisingi Why have you cancelled chairmans names???? You will be blocked from editing. Rinfoli { *Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 10:53, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Why do we need chairman's and executive director names?? Only Imams and muezzin are ok. Fisingi ( talk) 11:34, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
The link to the religious building info box is very helpful. I may go through it to see if the article has got it right, but I'll avoid the leadership and domes parts to avoid the 3RR problem. Inpeacebase ( talk) 19:09, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Gorgucurtesabre wants to have many edits, infact he did more tha 20 thousand edits in wikipedia, and he is also racist. Instead usamahward want be elm' boss, and he want to do whatever he want. He deleted all imams and abdul bari's name, then in "Prominent visitors" he moved mawlana sayeedi, yashir qadi and saad nomani's name from "imams" to "others notable visitors". He did also other bad things about this article. These two are vandals and they should be blocked. 109.157.151.48 ( talk) 14:02, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Dear all, the problem with this section is that the citations in the section don't support all the claims of visitors. It seems that some of the visitors are mentioned above, and correctly cited above, but this leaves the problem with the citations in the Prominent visitors sections. They will need to be changed to include the sources from above. I'll try to make a start on this in the weekend Insha'Allah. In the meantime I think it best to remove the incorrect information. George Custer's Sabre ( talk) 11:08, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
It is not reasonable to remove content as "unsourced" if it has already been established earlier in the article. In the case of material which has already been sourced previously within the article, at most the citation should be repeated - although this is not encouraged in Wikipedia (see WP:REPCITE). I repeated citations to avoid an edit war or losing sourced content, but unless there is any objection, I think they can be removed as per WP:REPCITE. UsamahWard ( talk) 11:40, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
@ AHLM13: I'd be glad to, as soon as you stop with the personal attacks (hint - read WP:NOTVANDAL and calling someone a vandal only because you object to their edits is a personal attack), stop using poor sources, stop adding material not supported by the given reference and stop adding puffery to articles. From your history, that's going to be a while. You need to really review WP:RS. Here's an example - calling this Europe's largest when reference for that claim is first a census that doesn't actually mention the mosque and second is for the UK only! Seriously? I've got no problem with it being in the article IF YOU HAVE A GOOD SOURCE FOR IT. This isn't a blog where you can say what you want. Ravensfire ( talk) 19:23, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
@ Ravensfire:
With regard to these personal attacks, I wasn't be able to remain calm. It's difficult to hold the patience in this case.-- AHLM13 talk 18:35, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
I have changed back the lead. AHLM13 made some changes that couldn't be justified; he shouldn't have ignored the corrections by the other editors. Nor, of course, should he have made personal attacks. UsamahWard ( talk) 14:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
AHLM13 has cited Kratke's Transnationalism and Urbanism (p 145) for a claim that had been disputed before at various talk pages. The same editor has recently used that citation in several articles: London, Islam in England, Islam in the United Kingdom, Religion in England, Religion in the United Kingdom and East London Mosque. The reference does not support the claim, that the East London Mosque was "the first mosque in the European Union to be permitted to broadcast the adhan" - it just briefly recounts disputes over allowing the adhan in 1986. The claim does not even appear on the mosque's own comprehensive website. I will remove the claim and ask AHLM13 not to repeat it without a source which clearly and directly states it. NebY ( talk) 17:48, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
AHLM13, it's very simple. We say what the source says. That's it. The source says Britain, not Europe. The source says one of the few, not the first. Anything else is WP:OR and must be removed as such. Ravensfire ( talk) 05:10, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
I need to find a source which says Europe. -- AHLM13 talk 10:23, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
User:Cordless Larry, i wrote "one of the first" not "the first". I think that Western Europe is fine. You all can go in this place and ask to the chairman.-- AHLM13 talk 16:53, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
This is a small point: the descriptor for the aerial image has been changed from "mosque and centre" to "masjid". I don't think this is appropriate, but I'm prevented by 3RR from changing it again. In my view the use of the word "masjid" in preference to "mosque" is inappropriate, not least for an institution that labels itself as a mosque. I'm happy to let others decide. UsamahWard ( talk) 14:21, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
The article currently has a C rating for the WikiProject Islam project. I think it meets the B rating according to WP:BCLASS. Do others agree? Inpeacebase ( talk) 10:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
This mosque would be the second largest mosque in the Western world (the first one being in Italy and the ahmadi qadiani one can't be considered). Can this be included? The mosque interior's picture seems to be very old, hence a new one needs to be put. The prominent visitors section is missing numerous notable imams and leaders. Also, the mosque is going to acquire the big synagogue which cost 1.5 millions, therefore it will be larger and something should be mentioned about this on wikipedia. Besides, most of the donations come from the British Bangladeshi Community, could this also be comprised? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walespeedentry ( talk • contribs) 16:14, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
I reverted this section which 2a02:c7f:c626:400:cc95:c5a0:ad23:4a18 had removed - they had written: "Inappropriate and disproportionate - NPOV, appears to be response to complaint made by mosque to Pride in London about CEMB."
It's true that the recent complaint about CEMB has brought attention to the mosques actions in the past on this issue: that just means good wiki practise: to add content to provide a more rounded picture over time.
Regards NPOV - [2a02:c7f:c626:400:cc95:c5a0:ad23:4a18] do feel free to add further sources that you feel would add balance - so far I spent quite a bit of time and added a half a dozen or so new sources under this heading. I added another one today too. So your turn! 209.93.203.99 ( talk) 00:11, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on East London Mosque. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
East London Mosque article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
Someone may wish to reflect these articles here, here, and here.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 19:06, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
The London Muslim Centre used to have a separate Wikipedia entry, but was later incorporated in the East London Mosque entry. However, the boxed entry about Architectural information refers only to the mosque, not the adjoining centre or new Phase 2 expansion. What is the best way to present all the information correctly? UsamahWard ( talk) 14:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
I note someone has added details of the most recent architects. UsamahWard ( talk) 13:17, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Is the box 'British Bangladeshis' really appropriate for this article? UsamahWard ( talk) 14:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
This article needs a lot more work on it for example there is no mention of the Gilligan allegations even though it is covered by a major paper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.222.144.238 ( talk) 19:50, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
I live in this mosque. As I said, Dr Bari is still the chairman of this mosque. Regarding the imams and muezzin, were added when this article were created. This mosque has 2 domes. Look in google maps, the second dome is above the al baraka restaurant. Fisingi ( talk) 18:34, 23 April 2014 (UTC) You are copying from here. http://www.eastlondonmosque.org.uk/content/management Habibur rahman is abdul bari's son. Fisingi ( talk) 18:44, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
I may have broken the 3RR myself, I didn't know about it, so I must apologise. Fisingi is clearly mistaken. I won't try to correct it again now, because of 3RR. Inpeacebase ( talk) 19:02, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
There have been more edits of the leadership section without further discussion here. The info box now wrongly states Muhammad Abdul Bari as the "Ex President". The leadership of the mosque is clearly explained on its own website. The edits that have ignored this have not been sourced at all, other than by claims of living near or even in the mosque. Inpeacebase ( talk) 15:39, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Wrong? In these last days the user
Fisingi,
UsamahWard and
Inpeacebase are editing the leadership of this article.
My last edit was a reliable source. Muhammad Abdul Bari was the chairman of this mosque, so it means he is the Ex President. The user
Fisingi deleted the chief imam of this mosque from the leadership. After that I added back him . Then the user
User:Manspacey undid my edit , so it means he supported the user
Fisingi. For that reason I have contacted and admin to be sure if
User:Manspacey belonged
Fisingi. But I did a mistake! The Admin have found that the
UsamahWard's IP adress is the same of the
User:Manspacey. So it means
UsamahWard is a sockpuppet, in fact after few days there will be a sockpuppet investigation about him.
Rinfoli {
*Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 16:43, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Rinfoli, chairman and president are not the same thing. Why include a former chairman in the leadership? Inpeacebase ( talk) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Admin Rinfoli, why did you think that I was a sockpuppet? This is my only account. That usamahward is a sockpuppet and vandal. Not me. Fisingi ( talk) 17:45, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
UsamahWard are you working in this mosque? An admin have found that your IP adress is the same of
User:Manspacey.
We're still not sure that you are sockpuppet, in fact we will make a sockpuppet investigations.
Inpeacebase In my language chairman and president are same thing. The chairman of a college is even the president of a college. Have you understood? YOU asked why include a former chairman in the leadership? Why not. Dr.
Muhammad Abdul Bari was the president of this mosque for many years, and he has an article in wikipedia as well. Many people believe that he founded this mosque, although this mosque was built in 1910. So why we shouldn't mention him???
Sorry
Fisingi, I am not an admin, I thought that you were a sockpuppet because
User:Manspacey undid my edit. With regard to your edit, the other dome doesn't belong to this mosque. Then, S. Habibur Rahman is not Dr.
Muhammad Abdul Bari's son. Habirur Rahman is from Sylhet instead dr
Muhammad Abdul Bari from Tangail. If you live near at the mosque, we can meet.
Rinfoli {
*Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 18:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
I uploaded the image of this mosque where there is written that "which is one of the only and first mosques in Europe which are allowed to broadcast the adhan".I have only copied from this article and just it. Why don't you want to include the former chairman'name and imam's name in infobox? The imams name was included since this aRticle was created. . Rinfoli { *Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 08:25, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
the imams must be here, and there are 2 domes in that mosque, and we do not need to add chairman in template box, we need only imam. Then habibur rahman is the son of abdul bari, he looks like him. why you people do not undestrand?
Fisingi (
talk) 10:03, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
UsamahWard If I changed back the number of domes to 2, it was certainly mistake, it is happened when I undid something. For leadership you don't have to mention only the current chairman. You could add the older one as well.
President is also a synonim of chairman, but it doesn't matter I've changed it.
Fisingi I am tired to explain and answer you. .
Rinfoli {
*Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 10:29, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
UsamahWard I said that the imams were added when this article wasr created. So now why do you want delete all of them?? Nothing happens whether there are some imams name in this infobox. Rinfoli { *Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 10:50, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Fisingi Why have you cancelled chairmans names???? You will be blocked from editing. Rinfoli { *Di§cu$$ with me"#}, 10:53, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Why do we need chairman's and executive director names?? Only Imams and muezzin are ok. Fisingi ( talk) 11:34, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
The link to the religious building info box is very helpful. I may go through it to see if the article has got it right, but I'll avoid the leadership and domes parts to avoid the 3RR problem. Inpeacebase ( talk) 19:09, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Gorgucurtesabre wants to have many edits, infact he did more tha 20 thousand edits in wikipedia, and he is also racist. Instead usamahward want be elm' boss, and he want to do whatever he want. He deleted all imams and abdul bari's name, then in "Prominent visitors" he moved mawlana sayeedi, yashir qadi and saad nomani's name from "imams" to "others notable visitors". He did also other bad things about this article. These two are vandals and they should be blocked. 109.157.151.48 ( talk) 14:02, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Dear all, the problem with this section is that the citations in the section don't support all the claims of visitors. It seems that some of the visitors are mentioned above, and correctly cited above, but this leaves the problem with the citations in the Prominent visitors sections. They will need to be changed to include the sources from above. I'll try to make a start on this in the weekend Insha'Allah. In the meantime I think it best to remove the incorrect information. George Custer's Sabre ( talk) 11:08, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
It is not reasonable to remove content as "unsourced" if it has already been established earlier in the article. In the case of material which has already been sourced previously within the article, at most the citation should be repeated - although this is not encouraged in Wikipedia (see WP:REPCITE). I repeated citations to avoid an edit war or losing sourced content, but unless there is any objection, I think they can be removed as per WP:REPCITE. UsamahWard ( talk) 11:40, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
@ AHLM13: I'd be glad to, as soon as you stop with the personal attacks (hint - read WP:NOTVANDAL and calling someone a vandal only because you object to their edits is a personal attack), stop using poor sources, stop adding material not supported by the given reference and stop adding puffery to articles. From your history, that's going to be a while. You need to really review WP:RS. Here's an example - calling this Europe's largest when reference for that claim is first a census that doesn't actually mention the mosque and second is for the UK only! Seriously? I've got no problem with it being in the article IF YOU HAVE A GOOD SOURCE FOR IT. This isn't a blog where you can say what you want. Ravensfire ( talk) 19:23, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
@ Ravensfire:
With regard to these personal attacks, I wasn't be able to remain calm. It's difficult to hold the patience in this case.-- AHLM13 talk 18:35, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
I have changed back the lead. AHLM13 made some changes that couldn't be justified; he shouldn't have ignored the corrections by the other editors. Nor, of course, should he have made personal attacks. UsamahWard ( talk) 14:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
AHLM13 has cited Kratke's Transnationalism and Urbanism (p 145) for a claim that had been disputed before at various talk pages. The same editor has recently used that citation in several articles: London, Islam in England, Islam in the United Kingdom, Religion in England, Religion in the United Kingdom and East London Mosque. The reference does not support the claim, that the East London Mosque was "the first mosque in the European Union to be permitted to broadcast the adhan" - it just briefly recounts disputes over allowing the adhan in 1986. The claim does not even appear on the mosque's own comprehensive website. I will remove the claim and ask AHLM13 not to repeat it without a source which clearly and directly states it. NebY ( talk) 17:48, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
AHLM13, it's very simple. We say what the source says. That's it. The source says Britain, not Europe. The source says one of the few, not the first. Anything else is WP:OR and must be removed as such. Ravensfire ( talk) 05:10, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
I need to find a source which says Europe. -- AHLM13 talk 10:23, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
User:Cordless Larry, i wrote "one of the first" not "the first". I think that Western Europe is fine. You all can go in this place and ask to the chairman.-- AHLM13 talk 16:53, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
This is a small point: the descriptor for the aerial image has been changed from "mosque and centre" to "masjid". I don't think this is appropriate, but I'm prevented by 3RR from changing it again. In my view the use of the word "masjid" in preference to "mosque" is inappropriate, not least for an institution that labels itself as a mosque. I'm happy to let others decide. UsamahWard ( talk) 14:21, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
The article currently has a C rating for the WikiProject Islam project. I think it meets the B rating according to WP:BCLASS. Do others agree? Inpeacebase ( talk) 10:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
This mosque would be the second largest mosque in the Western world (the first one being in Italy and the ahmadi qadiani one can't be considered). Can this be included? The mosque interior's picture seems to be very old, hence a new one needs to be put. The prominent visitors section is missing numerous notable imams and leaders. Also, the mosque is going to acquire the big synagogue which cost 1.5 millions, therefore it will be larger and something should be mentioned about this on wikipedia. Besides, most of the donations come from the British Bangladeshi Community, could this also be comprised? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walespeedentry ( talk • contribs) 16:14, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
I reverted this section which 2a02:c7f:c626:400:cc95:c5a0:ad23:4a18 had removed - they had written: "Inappropriate and disproportionate - NPOV, appears to be response to complaint made by mosque to Pride in London about CEMB."
It's true that the recent complaint about CEMB has brought attention to the mosques actions in the past on this issue: that just means good wiki practise: to add content to provide a more rounded picture over time.
Regards NPOV - [2a02:c7f:c626:400:cc95:c5a0:ad23:4a18] do feel free to add further sources that you feel would add balance - so far I spent quite a bit of time and added a half a dozen or so new sources under this heading. I added another one today too. So your turn! 209.93.203.99 ( talk) 00:11, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on East London Mosque. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:47, 16 September 2017 (UTC)