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his work with frenchy was great.
Didn't he produce one or two of the earlier MDC albums? -- Jkonrath 23:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Could use some birth information.
i heard he actually wasn't influenced by surf music at all, more the old western music and stuff like that. if i (or anyone else) can find a source for this, it should be changed.
As a guitarist & musician, I will readily verify that the guitar work is largely vertical-scale oriented, rather than horizontal box-style, for most of DK's signature sound, and this is what surf music is all about. Additionally, while most punk bands based their songs on common pentatonic (blues & rock & roll) technique & I, IV, V chord progressions, DK was different in that it also drew from jazz progressions & scales. This is one of the reasons few bands sound like DK, their music is NOT at all easy to play, and requires musicianship beyond the likes of the everyday player.
I have cleaned up the introductory paragraph, to remove weasel words (whether they were intentional or not), and replace them with objective & correct musical terminology.
The paragraph had been written by someone attempting a fanzine-like review style, but it was derogatory, because the guitar style was anything but "spastic". Anyone who disputes this should sit down with a guitar & the DK catalog... you will soon see that what sounds like 'simple punk' is actually VERY complicated.
Themes in some of the songs are derived from the old TV spaghetti westerns. Nothing is cut & dry, Ray drew from VERY diverse musical styles in his compositions. That is why their music still sounds fresh... nobody else has done anything on par with it in punk rock, because it stands by itself as a collection of styles that aren't commonly associated with one another.
Glad to be of service.
UNIXcoffee928 14:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe we should add {{Notable Wikipedian|Dead-kennedys}} to this talk page. I suspect Ray of contributing as User:Dead-kennedys, considering the recent vandalism this person has done to Biafra's article and other DK related articles in an attempt to make them look more favorable towards Ray. -- LGagnon 15:27, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Information is cited that supports one view while important information that opposes it is omitted, resulting in this section pushing a certain point of view. The whole anti-corporate discussion has a faulty premise, licensing to major film corporations was done by the band since the beginning, “Neighbors,” 1981,“Class,” 1983. Black Flag did a skateboard video. Lengthy discussion of the court case would seem to be more appropriate on Dead Kennedys. Here’s a suggested simplified version of this paragraph, or leave this issue out all together:
the factual section of the appeals document verifies Ray being one of the founders of Alternative Tentacles Records
Again, no source is given for the “critics & fans” opinion, and could be there just push a point of view. Ray's studio credits can be verified by the CD’s, the old Alternative Tentacles CD, “Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death” and http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=8&storycode=13455 Other projects http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:3d9fs33ba3rg~T1
Mediation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-04-27_Dead_Kennedy -- Bob
"Everyone knows" is not a verifiable source. And from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view "There should not be any tone of either hagiography or hatchet job."
I've also noticed the two citations for passages which claim that Biafra used "... the assistance of a large corporate law firm specializing in defending toxic polluters and insurance companies against patients, was found guilty of defrauding the band" do not lead to any source information. These should be verified, made to coincide with NPOV or deleted. Progkeeg 19:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
This is about tag cleanup. As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, they will be removed. This is not a judgement of content. If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made. This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.
Jjdon (
talk)
19:07, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
"East Bay Ray crafted a distant and driving guitar style that was clever, cinematic and epically paranoid in sound" -- Sounds like marketing speak; how does a guitar SOUND paranoid? Does it talk about black helicopters? Xinit 19:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
What is a "distant" guitar style? Did someone mean to write "distinct?"
Suggestion: "Biafra, with the assistance of a large corporate law firm, Carroll, Burdick & McDonough LLP, specializing in defending toxic polluters and insurance companies against patients, "... - This bit about the law firm's other clients really has nothing to do with EBR, IMHO. Suggest removing the 'specalizing in' clause above. TVN 23:00 28 July 2006
There's entire chunks of what would seem to be good information being reverted with the POV accusations and such... why is this sort of of being wiped too?
After Dead Kennedys stopped touring in March 1986, East Bay Ray played guitar on a range of projects including an Algerian Raï music album for Cheika Rimitti called Sidi Mansour, which also featured Red Hot Chili Peppers bassist Flea (musician) and Robert Fripp, to garage-pop with Pearl Harbour and exotica lounge music with Frenchy. He composed and recorded a sound track for an early independent film by David Segal and Scott McGhee, who later made the film noir movie The Deep End.
More deleted information restored, sources are given. Maybe both sides could please re-read WP:BLP and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV_tutorial? And there does seem to a dispute.
I've tended to be highly skeptical of the revisionism on the part of "Bob" aka Dead Kennedys. But in this case, I do feel that "critics and fans have found these..to be be unremarkable and quite forgettable" is very strong for an encyclopedia article, no matter how accurate it may or may not be. After all, if they were "fans" of Ray--then they by definition would not be dissmissive of the records. I can see no citations or compelling reasons for keeping this sentence in, so I'm going to remove it.
That's me, S Pepperell. As there is currently a NPOV dispute on this page, I can find out the information you want from my uncle himself, including birth information and what he was influenced by. I can also confirm whether or not the user 'deadkennedys' is in fact Ray. Once you acknowledge this, I will phone him asking the necessary questions Seriphyn 10:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Biafra did approve the Tony Hawk video, a valid source is given, deleting that information is done by a person with some personal grudge against Ray. 70.132.10.245 18:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
The article is riddled with attacks on Jello Biafra, most of which are completely irrelevant to the section that they're in. This one in particular, found in the Career section...
...has absolutely nothing at all to do with East Bay Ray's career. Someone should add a section devoted to the dispute, if it's a big enough deal to warrant comments thrown in to sections that they don't belong in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CapitalistOverlord ( talk • contribs) 18:11, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
And yet here we are a decayed, nearly, later and that dogshit line which is why I came to this talk page (which I don't even fucking like to do because I know how toxic these things are)is still in there. For shame... forgot to look on this page was last edited maybe it was 2011.
And truly whoever is the bigger asshole in this dispute, and this is purely an aside,it's one of the saddest stories in music history. Lying Lyndon Johnson's Johnson ( talk) 08:46, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
This entire article reads like it was written by Ray and links to his website & not much else. Entire sections need to be deleted if there are no secondary sources to back up any of the claims, including biography. - Chimino ( talk) 14:28, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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his work with frenchy was great.
Didn't he produce one or two of the earlier MDC albums? -- Jkonrath 23:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Could use some birth information.
i heard he actually wasn't influenced by surf music at all, more the old western music and stuff like that. if i (or anyone else) can find a source for this, it should be changed.
As a guitarist & musician, I will readily verify that the guitar work is largely vertical-scale oriented, rather than horizontal box-style, for most of DK's signature sound, and this is what surf music is all about. Additionally, while most punk bands based their songs on common pentatonic (blues & rock & roll) technique & I, IV, V chord progressions, DK was different in that it also drew from jazz progressions & scales. This is one of the reasons few bands sound like DK, their music is NOT at all easy to play, and requires musicianship beyond the likes of the everyday player.
I have cleaned up the introductory paragraph, to remove weasel words (whether they were intentional or not), and replace them with objective & correct musical terminology.
The paragraph had been written by someone attempting a fanzine-like review style, but it was derogatory, because the guitar style was anything but "spastic". Anyone who disputes this should sit down with a guitar & the DK catalog... you will soon see that what sounds like 'simple punk' is actually VERY complicated.
Themes in some of the songs are derived from the old TV spaghetti westerns. Nothing is cut & dry, Ray drew from VERY diverse musical styles in his compositions. That is why their music still sounds fresh... nobody else has done anything on par with it in punk rock, because it stands by itself as a collection of styles that aren't commonly associated with one another.
Glad to be of service.
UNIXcoffee928 14:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe we should add {{Notable Wikipedian|Dead-kennedys}} to this talk page. I suspect Ray of contributing as User:Dead-kennedys, considering the recent vandalism this person has done to Biafra's article and other DK related articles in an attempt to make them look more favorable towards Ray. -- LGagnon 15:27, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Information is cited that supports one view while important information that opposes it is omitted, resulting in this section pushing a certain point of view. The whole anti-corporate discussion has a faulty premise, licensing to major film corporations was done by the band since the beginning, “Neighbors,” 1981,“Class,” 1983. Black Flag did a skateboard video. Lengthy discussion of the court case would seem to be more appropriate on Dead Kennedys. Here’s a suggested simplified version of this paragraph, or leave this issue out all together:
the factual section of the appeals document verifies Ray being one of the founders of Alternative Tentacles Records
Again, no source is given for the “critics & fans” opinion, and could be there just push a point of view. Ray's studio credits can be verified by the CD’s, the old Alternative Tentacles CD, “Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death” and http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=8&storycode=13455 Other projects http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:3d9fs33ba3rg~T1
Mediation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-04-27_Dead_Kennedy -- Bob
"Everyone knows" is not a verifiable source. And from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view "There should not be any tone of either hagiography or hatchet job."
I've also noticed the two citations for passages which claim that Biafra used "... the assistance of a large corporate law firm specializing in defending toxic polluters and insurance companies against patients, was found guilty of defrauding the band" do not lead to any source information. These should be verified, made to coincide with NPOV or deleted. Progkeeg 19:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
This is about tag cleanup. As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, they will be removed. This is not a judgement of content. If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made. This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.
Jjdon (
talk)
19:07, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
"East Bay Ray crafted a distant and driving guitar style that was clever, cinematic and epically paranoid in sound" -- Sounds like marketing speak; how does a guitar SOUND paranoid? Does it talk about black helicopters? Xinit 19:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
What is a "distant" guitar style? Did someone mean to write "distinct?"
Suggestion: "Biafra, with the assistance of a large corporate law firm, Carroll, Burdick & McDonough LLP, specializing in defending toxic polluters and insurance companies against patients, "... - This bit about the law firm's other clients really has nothing to do with EBR, IMHO. Suggest removing the 'specalizing in' clause above. TVN 23:00 28 July 2006
There's entire chunks of what would seem to be good information being reverted with the POV accusations and such... why is this sort of of being wiped too?
After Dead Kennedys stopped touring in March 1986, East Bay Ray played guitar on a range of projects including an Algerian Raï music album for Cheika Rimitti called Sidi Mansour, which also featured Red Hot Chili Peppers bassist Flea (musician) and Robert Fripp, to garage-pop with Pearl Harbour and exotica lounge music with Frenchy. He composed and recorded a sound track for an early independent film by David Segal and Scott McGhee, who later made the film noir movie The Deep End.
More deleted information restored, sources are given. Maybe both sides could please re-read WP:BLP and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV_tutorial? And there does seem to a dispute.
I've tended to be highly skeptical of the revisionism on the part of "Bob" aka Dead Kennedys. But in this case, I do feel that "critics and fans have found these..to be be unremarkable and quite forgettable" is very strong for an encyclopedia article, no matter how accurate it may or may not be. After all, if they were "fans" of Ray--then they by definition would not be dissmissive of the records. I can see no citations or compelling reasons for keeping this sentence in, so I'm going to remove it.
That's me, S Pepperell. As there is currently a NPOV dispute on this page, I can find out the information you want from my uncle himself, including birth information and what he was influenced by. I can also confirm whether or not the user 'deadkennedys' is in fact Ray. Once you acknowledge this, I will phone him asking the necessary questions Seriphyn 10:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Biafra did approve the Tony Hawk video, a valid source is given, deleting that information is done by a person with some personal grudge against Ray. 70.132.10.245 18:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
The article is riddled with attacks on Jello Biafra, most of which are completely irrelevant to the section that they're in. This one in particular, found in the Career section...
...has absolutely nothing at all to do with East Bay Ray's career. Someone should add a section devoted to the dispute, if it's a big enough deal to warrant comments thrown in to sections that they don't belong in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CapitalistOverlord ( talk • contribs) 18:11, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
And yet here we are a decayed, nearly, later and that dogshit line which is why I came to this talk page (which I don't even fucking like to do because I know how toxic these things are)is still in there. For shame... forgot to look on this page was last edited maybe it was 2011.
And truly whoever is the bigger asshole in this dispute, and this is purely an aside,it's one of the saddest stories in music history. Lying Lyndon Johnson's Johnson ( talk) 08:46, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
This entire article reads like it was written by Ray and links to his website & not much else. Entire sections need to be deleted if there are no secondary sources to back up any of the claims, including biography. - Chimino ( talk) 14:28, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 07:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:09, 16 September 2017 (UTC)