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I significantly modified this section as it relates to Eastern Orthodoxy, since it contained blatant errors such as claiming that the Orthodox believe there "is no hell," and made sweeping generalizations and universal, doctrinal claims on behalf of Orthodoxy as a whole, when even the Wikipedia article on hell, in the Orthodox subsection, clearly states and explains the variety of opinion in this area, and the lack of a single, official doctrine, as is found in Catholicism.
67.42.97.177 ( talk) 10:06, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
The statement that "Eastern Orthodox theologians argue that the mind (reason, rationality) is the focus of Western theology, whereas, in Eastern theology, the mind must be put in the heart, so they are united into what is called nous; this unity as heart is the focus of Eastern Orthodox Christianity" is based on a reference by the American Romanian Carpathian Church. I am not sure this interpretation (and the entire paragraph that follows it) is representative. Of course, it is in the nature of the Orthodox tradition that there are differences in interpretation of the sacred texts because their meaning depends somewhat on the education and understanding of the individual. However, the contrary position has many defendants: The opening of the Gospel of St John quotes Heraclitus: In the arche (first principle) there was Logos ... Through it everything came to be". Heraclitus by Logos meant Reason (in fact that is what the word means in Greek). The translation into Latin as "In the beginning was the Word" certainly does not reflect Heraclitus accurately and rather detracts from the position of Logos (Reason) in Christian thought. St John the Evangelist lived in Ephesus, the city where Heraclitus had lived, and the reference to Heraclitus could not have been accidental. See also https://orthodoxwiki.org/Logos and https://www.orthodox-theology.com/media/PDF/IJOT1-2010/12-popescu-trinity.pdf Skamnelis ( talk) 12:57, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Would this ariticle benefit from a comparison of the East-West schism with the Protestant Reformation, if there is credible historical literature which discusses the similarities between the two events? They were both events of Christianity splitting into Christian denominations, they both challenged and rejected the authority of the Pope and of the Roman Catholic Church and interestingly, both started in a state called "Roman Empire": The East-West Schism happened with the break of communion of the church of the Byzantine Empire, officially the Eastern Roman Empire, and Martin Luther started the Reformation in the Holy Roman Empire. Also, both new denominations of Christianity were confined approximately within regions of the same language family: the Schism was confined to the Greek East, the Byzantine Empire, whose major language was Greek, while most of the newly Protestant countries spoke Germanic languages. Meanwhile, in both events countries which spoke Romance languages remained traditionally Catholic. 2804:14D:8084:8B09:34C0:EFB5:C9FD:DDD ( talk) 22:59, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2018 Moscow鈥揅onstantinople schism which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. 鈥 RMCD bot 15:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
I am asking here if this page could mention, even briefly the 1170 synod held at Constantinople. It is listed in John McClintock and James Strong's Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature (where it is listed as a council of 1168 or 1170). According to them, the synod was "attended by many Eastern and Western bishops on the reunion of the Eastern and Latin Churches" (Volume 2, 1883, p. 491), and elsewhere they list this same council as being that at which "the Greek Church was entirely separated from the Roman" (Supplement Volume 2, 1887, p. 89). Horace Kinder Mann, quotes Macarius of Ancyra as saying the following about the council:
"The emperor, the council, and the whole senate gave their vote in favour of a total separation from the Pope... But it was not thought proper to consign (the Latins) a great and distinguished nation, to formal anathema, like other heresies, even while repudiating union and communion with them." (Nicholas Breakspear (Hadrian IV.) A.D. 1154-1159 The Only English Pope, p. 88)
I had added a brief entry on it, but it was deleted. I am sincerely wondering why it was deleted.
The Council was called by the Emperor Manuel and envoys of Pope Alexander III met in Constantinople along with Patriarch Michael III Anchialus. The Pope required that in all matters the Greeks adopt Latin practices and consent to the papal primacy, and so the Patriarch broke communion with Rome. Further information can easily be found online.
You can verify the quote by Macarius of Ancyra here: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Nicholas_Breakspear/xLY-AAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=horace+kinder+mann+nicholas+breakspear&printsec=frontcover 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by 2601:201:8E80:A9E0:129C:633E:6D7B:96FC ( talk) 11:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
East鈥揥est Schism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8Auto-archiving period: 30聽days聽 |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about East鈥揥est Schism. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about East鈥揥est Schism at the Reference desk. |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 7, 2005. |
This 聽
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Text has been copied to or from this article; see the list below. The source pages now serve to
provide attribution for the content in the destination pages and must not be deleted as long as the copies exist. For attribution and to access older versions of the copied text, please see the history links below.
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
I significantly modified this section as it relates to Eastern Orthodoxy, since it contained blatant errors such as claiming that the Orthodox believe there "is no hell," and made sweeping generalizations and universal, doctrinal claims on behalf of Orthodoxy as a whole, when even the Wikipedia article on hell, in the Orthodox subsection, clearly states and explains the variety of opinion in this area, and the lack of a single, official doctrine, as is found in Catholicism.
67.42.97.177 ( talk) 10:06, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
The statement that "Eastern Orthodox theologians argue that the mind (reason, rationality) is the focus of Western theology, whereas, in Eastern theology, the mind must be put in the heart, so they are united into what is called nous; this unity as heart is the focus of Eastern Orthodox Christianity" is based on a reference by the American Romanian Carpathian Church. I am not sure this interpretation (and the entire paragraph that follows it) is representative. Of course, it is in the nature of the Orthodox tradition that there are differences in interpretation of the sacred texts because their meaning depends somewhat on the education and understanding of the individual. However, the contrary position has many defendants: The opening of the Gospel of St John quotes Heraclitus: In the arche (first principle) there was Logos ... Through it everything came to be". Heraclitus by Logos meant Reason (in fact that is what the word means in Greek). The translation into Latin as "In the beginning was the Word" certainly does not reflect Heraclitus accurately and rather detracts from the position of Logos (Reason) in Christian thought. St John the Evangelist lived in Ephesus, the city where Heraclitus had lived, and the reference to Heraclitus could not have been accidental. See also https://orthodoxwiki.org/Logos and https://www.orthodox-theology.com/media/PDF/IJOT1-2010/12-popescu-trinity.pdf Skamnelis ( talk) 12:57, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Would this ariticle benefit from a comparison of the East-West schism with the Protestant Reformation, if there is credible historical literature which discusses the similarities between the two events? They were both events of Christianity splitting into Christian denominations, they both challenged and rejected the authority of the Pope and of the Roman Catholic Church and interestingly, both started in a state called "Roman Empire": The East-West Schism happened with the break of communion of the church of the Byzantine Empire, officially the Eastern Roman Empire, and Martin Luther started the Reformation in the Holy Roman Empire. Also, both new denominations of Christianity were confined approximately within regions of the same language family: the Schism was confined to the Greek East, the Byzantine Empire, whose major language was Greek, while most of the newly Protestant countries spoke Germanic languages. Meanwhile, in both events countries which spoke Romance languages remained traditionally Catholic. 2804:14D:8084:8B09:34C0:EFB5:C9FD:DDD ( talk) 22:59, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2018 Moscow鈥揅onstantinople schism which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. 鈥 RMCD bot 15:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
I am asking here if this page could mention, even briefly the 1170 synod held at Constantinople. It is listed in John McClintock and James Strong's Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature (where it is listed as a council of 1168 or 1170). According to them, the synod was "attended by many Eastern and Western bishops on the reunion of the Eastern and Latin Churches" (Volume 2, 1883, p. 491), and elsewhere they list this same council as being that at which "the Greek Church was entirely separated from the Roman" (Supplement Volume 2, 1887, p. 89). Horace Kinder Mann, quotes Macarius of Ancyra as saying the following about the council:
"The emperor, the council, and the whole senate gave their vote in favour of a total separation from the Pope... But it was not thought proper to consign (the Latins) a great and distinguished nation, to formal anathema, like other heresies, even while repudiating union and communion with them." (Nicholas Breakspear (Hadrian IV.) A.D. 1154-1159 The Only English Pope, p. 88)
I had added a brief entry on it, but it was deleted. I am sincerely wondering why it was deleted.
The Council was called by the Emperor Manuel and envoys of Pope Alexander III met in Constantinople along with Patriarch Michael III Anchialus. The Pope required that in all matters the Greeks adopt Latin practices and consent to the papal primacy, and so the Patriarch broke communion with Rome. Further information can easily be found online.
You can verify the quote by Macarius of Ancyra here: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Nicholas_Breakspear/xLY-AAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=horace+kinder+mann+nicholas+breakspear&printsec=frontcover 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by 2601:201:8E80:A9E0:129C:633E:6D7B:96FC ( talk) 11:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)