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I congratulate User:Wasted Time R and all of the editors on this fine article. It is clear that you have become experts on this man and I cannot think of a better or more thought out article other than John McCain. The referencing is impeccable in my view and I am proud and humbled to be a fellow Wikipedian when I read this type of article. Mugginsx ( talk) 13:38, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
I do not care WHO writes it or says it, including the POW THEMSELVES. There is NO proof that one prisoner was tortured MORE than another. Unless a man was of special value to the enemy, such as cryptographer (who after Korean War were not allowed in combat) or someone who was otherwise perceived as a valuable person to exploit (such as a General William Dean in Korean War) or ( Commander Bucher in the Pueblo Incident) the prisoners were tortured randomly. Conversely, you note that these men have never made statements to the effect that they were tortured more than others. See: General Dean's story, Publisher: New York : Viking Press, 1954. A psychological follow-up of former prisoners of war of the Chinese Communists : final report Author: Edgar H Schein; W E Cooley; Margaret T Singer Arlington, Va. : Reproduced by the Armed Services Technical Information Agency, [1960-62? and many many more publications of this type.
Please do not repeat the stuff (took out unfortunate word) out in the media, or even the guilt ridden statement of prisoners who survived. It is beneath the standards of Wikipedia and everywhere else for that matter to do that.
It is not is the psychological history, it is not in the military de-briefings, it is nowhere except in the guilt stricken minds of the men who survived. What you have is the perceptions of POWs which are not credible.
A person who is beated and tortured, whether it be an abused child or wife, or a prisoner of war BLOCK OUT that kind of detailed information. If their mind did not block it out they would go mad. It is a well known fact in the medical and psychological studies. They have glimpes of memory and in the cases of prisoners of war virtually all have SURVIVORS GUILT, a psychological affliction common to ALL prisoners of war and indeed many soldiers who survived when many of their friends did not.
Please do not take a featured article down with this unprovable and cruel statement. It simply has no basis in fact in the scientific community or anywhere else for that matter even when it is said by the former prisoner of war himself and repeated by someone trying to make a buck with a sensational story. As a relative of a former prisoner of war and a former National Librarian for American Ex-POW Organization, I appeal to your sense of honor to see this for what it is and keep it out of the article.
If nothing else it makes Wikipedia look foolish to reprint it.
If you refuse to take it out would you please clarify it with a companion statement citing the psychological studies.
Thank you. Mugginsx ( talk) 10:17, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
I realize this was promoted to FA a while ago, but this basically seems like a giant WP:CFORK that could easily be summarized on McCain's main biography. It's well written, but I'm not sure what this offers that can't be included on McCain's article. Snuggums ( talk / edits) 05:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
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First and second citations for purple heart are missing. [16:06, July 10, 2021 2603:6080:6540:ad1:7164:c45c:424c:c5e4]
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Early life and military career of John McCain article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | Early life and military career of John McCain is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 23, 2016. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
![]() | This subarticle is kept separate from the main article, John McCain, due to size or style considerations. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I congratulate User:Wasted Time R and all of the editors on this fine article. It is clear that you have become experts on this man and I cannot think of a better or more thought out article other than John McCain. The referencing is impeccable in my view and I am proud and humbled to be a fellow Wikipedian when I read this type of article. Mugginsx ( talk) 13:38, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
I do not care WHO writes it or says it, including the POW THEMSELVES. There is NO proof that one prisoner was tortured MORE than another. Unless a man was of special value to the enemy, such as cryptographer (who after Korean War were not allowed in combat) or someone who was otherwise perceived as a valuable person to exploit (such as a General William Dean in Korean War) or ( Commander Bucher in the Pueblo Incident) the prisoners were tortured randomly. Conversely, you note that these men have never made statements to the effect that they were tortured more than others. See: General Dean's story, Publisher: New York : Viking Press, 1954. A psychological follow-up of former prisoners of war of the Chinese Communists : final report Author: Edgar H Schein; W E Cooley; Margaret T Singer Arlington, Va. : Reproduced by the Armed Services Technical Information Agency, [1960-62? and many many more publications of this type.
Please do not repeat the stuff (took out unfortunate word) out in the media, or even the guilt ridden statement of prisoners who survived. It is beneath the standards of Wikipedia and everywhere else for that matter to do that.
It is not is the psychological history, it is not in the military de-briefings, it is nowhere except in the guilt stricken minds of the men who survived. What you have is the perceptions of POWs which are not credible.
A person who is beated and tortured, whether it be an abused child or wife, or a prisoner of war BLOCK OUT that kind of detailed information. If their mind did not block it out they would go mad. It is a well known fact in the medical and psychological studies. They have glimpes of memory and in the cases of prisoners of war virtually all have SURVIVORS GUILT, a psychological affliction common to ALL prisoners of war and indeed many soldiers who survived when many of their friends did not.
Please do not take a featured article down with this unprovable and cruel statement. It simply has no basis in fact in the scientific community or anywhere else for that matter even when it is said by the former prisoner of war himself and repeated by someone trying to make a buck with a sensational story. As a relative of a former prisoner of war and a former National Librarian for American Ex-POW Organization, I appeal to your sense of honor to see this for what it is and keep it out of the article.
If nothing else it makes Wikipedia look foolish to reprint it.
If you refuse to take it out would you please clarify it with a companion statement citing the psychological studies.
Thank you. Mugginsx ( talk) 10:17, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
I realize this was promoted to FA a while ago, but this basically seems like a giant WP:CFORK that could easily be summarized on McCain's main biography. It's well written, but I'm not sure what this offers that can't be included on McCain's article. Snuggums ( talk / edits) 05:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Early life and military career of John McCain. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:22, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
First and second citations for purple heart are missing. [16:06, July 10, 2021 2603:6080:6540:ad1:7164:c45c:424c:c5e4]