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Some deranged academics seem to think that Northern and Southern Middle English texts were distinguishable. Perhaps they have overseen the obvious fact that they all used a Latin script, which to be fair, renders them indistinguishable. How those academecs find differences in indistinguishable texts, does of course remain a mystery. Unsurprisingly, being academics they've probably lost the plot.
Middle English...
172.214.68.46 11:44, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Ignoring the fact that the topic of the article is a spurious modern construct, and has nothing to do with the history of the era, I'm afraid this article, especially the historical section, is still way below par. Statements like "Through Margaret's influence the Gaelic aristocracy merged with that of the new Anglo-Norman feudal landowners." What does Margaret have to do with Anglo-Norman feudal landowners? Nothing! See also "Feudalism facillitated the spread of the language through its social structures such as the burghs established by David I, mostly in the south and east of Scotland." Feudalism is a system of military culture, and has nothing to do with burghs. And as it had nothing to do with burghs, and as incoming "feudal knights" did not begin to come and settle in Scotland south of the Forth until the reign of David I - and Scotland north of the Forth until William I and Alexander II, and as French was their language and not English, the relationship between Feudalism and English is spurious, and the relation of both to Margaret is just silly. If that weren't enough, I notice the interesting spelling "The monastries". Is this "early Scots"? :P Calgacus ( ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 23:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
It certainly is that! Just like "Middle" English! I mean, we cant use terms you object to that werent used by the speakers. That would be plain spurious! 82.41.4.66 18:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Calgacus - DOST is probably the most respected source for the Germanic language spoken in Scotland at this time and it uses the term Early Scots. You may think it is spurious but the leading scholars in the field do not. Unfortunately the DSL site is down as I type this, but if you go on when it's working you can find examples aplently. - Duncan Sneddon —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
188.74.84.66 (
talk)
23:45, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
The Brus is unquestionably Scottish literature, but was it written in 'Scots'? A direct comparison with Chaucer's Canterbury Tales written about the same time suggests its language is very close indeed to his. The On-line Dictionary of the Scots Language notes " Barbour's Bruce is as old as the poetry of Chaucer, but has a more modern appearance" and "Barbour is more accessible to the modern reader than his contemporary, Chaucer". This seems to suggest that Barbour's writing was if anything MORE English than Chaucer's. Of course it can be reasonably argued that the distincion between Scots and English is and was a rather artificial distinction anyway, not least back in a period when modern conceptions of such distinctions did not yet exist. Meanwhile the sample text shown is from almost exactly the same period as the above. Is it English or 'Scots'? At first glance it looks like a non-English language: but replace the old alphabet letters e.g. thorn, and the unfamiliar archaic medieval spelling and it magically becomes English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.4.99 ( talk) 18:53, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but if the word 'orthography' means 'standard spelling' and Early Scots (like MSc) is noteable for having no standard spelling, then is not one of its defining features in fact the very absence of an orthography? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.1.107 ( talk) 13:28, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Should this be changed?
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(reference - "The Third Norn Dialect - That of Caithness" (The Viking Congress, Lerwick, 1950)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by FishermanCrofter ( talk • contribs) 16:20, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Some deranged academics seem to think that Northern and Southern Middle English texts were distinguishable. Perhaps they have overseen the obvious fact that they all used a Latin script, which to be fair, renders them indistinguishable. How those academecs find differences in indistinguishable texts, does of course remain a mystery. Unsurprisingly, being academics they've probably lost the plot.
Middle English...
172.214.68.46 11:44, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Ignoring the fact that the topic of the article is a spurious modern construct, and has nothing to do with the history of the era, I'm afraid this article, especially the historical section, is still way below par. Statements like "Through Margaret's influence the Gaelic aristocracy merged with that of the new Anglo-Norman feudal landowners." What does Margaret have to do with Anglo-Norman feudal landowners? Nothing! See also "Feudalism facillitated the spread of the language through its social structures such as the burghs established by David I, mostly in the south and east of Scotland." Feudalism is a system of military culture, and has nothing to do with burghs. And as it had nothing to do with burghs, and as incoming "feudal knights" did not begin to come and settle in Scotland south of the Forth until the reign of David I - and Scotland north of the Forth until William I and Alexander II, and as French was their language and not English, the relationship between Feudalism and English is spurious, and the relation of both to Margaret is just silly. If that weren't enough, I notice the interesting spelling "The monastries". Is this "early Scots"? :P Calgacus ( ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 23:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
It certainly is that! Just like "Middle" English! I mean, we cant use terms you object to that werent used by the speakers. That would be plain spurious! 82.41.4.66 18:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Calgacus - DOST is probably the most respected source for the Germanic language spoken in Scotland at this time and it uses the term Early Scots. You may think it is spurious but the leading scholars in the field do not. Unfortunately the DSL site is down as I type this, but if you go on when it's working you can find examples aplently. - Duncan Sneddon —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
188.74.84.66 (
talk)
23:45, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
The Brus is unquestionably Scottish literature, but was it written in 'Scots'? A direct comparison with Chaucer's Canterbury Tales written about the same time suggests its language is very close indeed to his. The On-line Dictionary of the Scots Language notes " Barbour's Bruce is as old as the poetry of Chaucer, but has a more modern appearance" and "Barbour is more accessible to the modern reader than his contemporary, Chaucer". This seems to suggest that Barbour's writing was if anything MORE English than Chaucer's. Of course it can be reasonably argued that the distincion between Scots and English is and was a rather artificial distinction anyway, not least back in a period when modern conceptions of such distinctions did not yet exist. Meanwhile the sample text shown is from almost exactly the same period as the above. Is it English or 'Scots'? At first glance it looks like a non-English language: but replace the old alphabet letters e.g. thorn, and the unfamiliar archaic medieval spelling and it magically becomes English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.4.99 ( talk) 18:53, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but if the word 'orthography' means 'standard spelling' and Early Scots (like MSc) is noteable for having no standard spelling, then is not one of its defining features in fact the very absence of an orthography? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.1.107 ( talk) 13:28, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Should this be changed?
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Early Scots. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
The map on the page should be corrected:
(reference - "The Third Norn Dialect - That of Caithness" (The Viking Congress, Lerwick, 1950)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by FishermanCrofter ( talk • contribs) 16:20, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:12, 16 September 2017 (UTC)