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I thought the future George V, then Duke of York was made Prince of Wales when his father became Edward VII in 1901. Hence the Dukedom of York would have returned to the crown in 1901 not 1910, or was he both POW and DOY during his father's reign? FearÉIREANN 07:05 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Titles conferred earlier don't merge with the crown until the person actually takes the crown. a Prince of Wales continues to hold all titles he held before being made Prince of Wales, until he succeeds his father, Thus, during his father's reign, the future George V was Prince of Wales; Duke of Cornwall, Rothesay, and York; Earl of Chester, Carrick, and Inverness; Baron of Renfrew and Killarney, Lord of the Isles, and Prince and Great Steward of Scotland. Or some such. Because Prince of Wales was the highest of his titles, he was known by that, but he was still called Prince of Wales. In the period between his father's accession and his own creation as Prince of Wales (almost a year), he was known as the Duke of Cornwall and York. john 20:15 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I concur, based on numerous academic reserach sources. He was concurrently Duke of Cornwall and York. Mmorrisbsa ( talk) 02:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, if one is reading Shakespeare's Richard II, or Henry V, or Henry VI, one might come across the Duke of York as a character, and look him up. I think it's helpful to explain which Duke of York is shown in each play. If you disagree, feel free to remove it. john 21:49 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
What about "The Grand Old Duke of York", the one who had ten thousand men, and marched them up to the top of the hill and marched them down again for some reason. Which particular Duke of York was that rhyme inspired by? Saul Taylor 10:37, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Are these not separate dukedoms? We show DOY as having had 8 creations, and DOYA as having had 3 creations. Even though DOYA is described as a “name change” from DOY, the fact that the creations are separately enumerated seems to suggest that this is not merely a name change but an entirely separate title. I wonder why these are all merged in the one article. JackofOz 02:22, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Does this title automatically merge with the crown upon the death of its holder? I've noticed from the list that it has never passed into a second generation. George III's son Frederick had no children; George V became king; George VI became king; and Prince Andrew only has daughters. Is this a non-hereditary title, or is it just "cursed" in that none of its holders ever passed it on? Morhange 01:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, i've recently created the peerage categories on the french wiki. I have a dispute with an other user about a categorization, which leads to this affirmation :
« All dukes of York are dukes in England ». Right or wrong ?
This user has created a new category : "Duke in England", and has sub-categorize "duke of York" (<- category) inside. DoY title was created in the GB an UK peerages too, so i tend to say it's wrong. This user says it's incorrect to sub-categorize "DoY" in "dukes in the peerage of England" "..of GB" and "..of the UK". Can you give me your point of view ? (i need specialists :) )
You can answer me there :
fr:Discussion Utilisateur:PurpleHaze, i'll reply here. Thanks!
--
PurpleHz
16:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The Dukedom of York has never been associated with any territory. The title was originally created to emphasise the strategic significance of the City of York, which was the most important City in the North of England (indeed as a strategic bridgehead in the north of the island of Great Britain it has held this significance from Roman and Viking times). When the title was created the Peerage in place was that of the Peerage of England. This ceased to exist in 1707 with the Act of Union with Scotland, creating the new country of Great Britain (the separate sovereign countries of England and Scotland, with their separate Peerage systems, ceased to exist as sovereign states). Again the Peerage of Great Britain was terminated with the Act of Union in 1801 to create the new country of the United Kingdom. So the title of Duke of York existed in the English Peerage, the Great British Peerage, and the current United Kingdom Peerage. Only if Scotland votes to separate from the Union will the Peerage of England emerge once again (as the Act of Union of 1801 will be dissolved if the Scottish people vote for independence in any future referendum). Ds1994 ( talk) 17:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
The assertion is made that Prince Henry of Wales would be the most likely candidate for the dukedom, given that Andrew has no male heirs to inherit the title, nor produces any male heirs. Assuming Andrew lives to be 80, he would live until 2040. In 2040, Henry would already be 56 years old, and presumably already made a duke. Assuming there is no tragedy, the Dukedom of York will still be in use when the time comes for conferring a dukedom on Henry. Mmorrisbsa ( talk) 02:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
The newer practice seems to be to create cadet princes firstly as earls, and only in their middle years, make them dukes. Edward of Wessex is destined to become a duke in his fifties or later. Harry may well receive an earldom when his marriage is imminent, with a promise to become duke when about in his retirement age :) This has the advantage of allowing the wife of Harry only a lowly title, in case their marriage does like almost any others' marriage.... only if the wife continues undivorced to 1240s or so, she will be duchess :) 82.181.239.182 ( talk) 00:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
The speculation at the end of this article is silly. Given the age of all parties involved, and the apparent longevity of the present royals, some future second son of Prince William of Wales would likely take this title about the year 2050... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.22.179 ( talk) 01:08, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Someone has completely changed my wording to suggest 'if Prince Andrew outlives King Charles' etc This is totally ridiculous as Prince Andrew is nearly twelve years younger than his elder brother, so this scenario is likely anyway! Can I be bothered to change this nonesense? No. Ds1994 ( talk) 18:18, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Ds1994 ( talk) 20:13, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Baron Killarney redirects to here. Should there not be some mention of the title somewhere in the article (if there is some connection between the titles), or should Baron Killarney not be deleted (if there is not)? 83.70.251.202 ( talk) 14:54, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
I changed were to are in 'To the Jacobites, they were Kings James III, Charles III, and Henry IX, respectively'; since I for one am a jacobite, believe it or not. Jacobitism may not be relevant to those who dismiss it, but it still exists. Claverhouse ( talk) 13:17, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Does it mean that the Duke is from York or that he's York's Duke? I'm asking because in some different languages there's a different between the two forms and I wan't to be accurate. Thanks. 15:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.172.110.99 ( talk)
Wait a sec, it's assumed that if Andrew dies without legitimate son to follow, the title will be given to his nephew Henry. If this situation occurs when his nephew William is King? wouldn't William bestow the title on his own second son (if he has one)? GoodDay ( talk) 04:35, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
The Next Duke of York at present the Duke of York has no heirs who can inherit the title if this remains the case when the present Duke of York dies. The title of Duke of York is traditionally given to the second eldest son of the current monarch. In relation to Princess Charlotte is suspect there is another royal title she will get most probably Princess Royal which is the title traditionally given to the sovereigns eldest daughter. King4852 ( talk) 19:39, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Er, 8 + 3 + 3 ≠ 11. Am I missing something here? Should the "eleven" simply be modified to "fourteen"? Perhaps the meaning is that for three of those times it was the Duke of York and Albany, not the Duke of York. But I would think that the former encompasses the latter and should be counted accordingly. -- Saforrest ( talk) 22:48, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I have just deleted the following paragraph: "Since 1461, when the great-grandson of the first duke became King Edward IV, not one of the ten subsequent holders of the title has ever passed it on: they either died without male heirs or became King themselves. This has fuelled the rumour that there is a curse on the title. [1]"
Firstly, the link does not work so the rumour has no source. Regardless, the thing is nonsense. The Dukedom of York since the accession of the Tudors has not been a standard, hereditary dukedom, passing down the line in the usual fashion, but instead a courtesy title given to the second sons of monarchs. For a second son of a monarch to pass the title on essentially requires the first son of that monarch to die before his father and for the second son to himself have two sons. That this has not happened is not a curse. Marplesmustgo ( talk) 15:37, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
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I was searching for English Dukedoms and found a page with categories. One of the categories is "Extinct Dukedoms." When I clicked on this link, I saw the Duke of York was listed as extinct. It is well-known that the Duke of York title has existed for over a thousand years and is still commonly conferred upon the British monarch's second son. I am not familiar with modifying Wikipedia pages, but I think someone who has the necessary knowledge to remove the Duke of York from the category of Extinct Dukedoms. Thank you.
Starsmark ( talk) 05:22, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Starsmark ( talk) 05:07, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
Starsmark ( talk) 03:06, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
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In the article on Richard Neville, 16th Earl of Warwick it states that his son in law (and Edward IV's younger brother) the Duke of Clarence 'was awarded the Duchy of York' by Parliament in 1470 after Henry VI's restoration following Edward's attainder which removed his claim to the title. Assuming this claim to be correct, technically would this not mean that Clarence was either the de jure 5th Duke of York of the first creation (in sucession to his brother), or the first Duke of a new creation for a period in 1470-71 until his defection back to Edward IV (and Edward's eventual restoration as King of England)? If so should the article be amended to reflect this? Dunarc ( talk) 20:44, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
So between 26 November 1470 and 3 April 1471 ? Technically, yes Edouard2 ( talk) 20:40, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:38, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
The table part of the article omits two successive Dukes who were separately created in the 18th century, Prince Edward brother of George III and Prince Frederick, second son of George III, said to have been the 'Grand Old Duke' of the nursery rhyme. I understand they would have been the real sixth and seventh creations, the future George V would have been the eighth and the present Duke of the tenth creation. Am I right? I do note they are mentioned without picture or detailed life dates and family details in the introductory section History. Cloptonson ( talk) 13:03, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
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![]() | Text and/or other creative content from James II of England was copied or moved into Duke of York. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
I thought the future George V, then Duke of York was made Prince of Wales when his father became Edward VII in 1901. Hence the Dukedom of York would have returned to the crown in 1901 not 1910, or was he both POW and DOY during his father's reign? FearÉIREANN 07:05 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Titles conferred earlier don't merge with the crown until the person actually takes the crown. a Prince of Wales continues to hold all titles he held before being made Prince of Wales, until he succeeds his father, Thus, during his father's reign, the future George V was Prince of Wales; Duke of Cornwall, Rothesay, and York; Earl of Chester, Carrick, and Inverness; Baron of Renfrew and Killarney, Lord of the Isles, and Prince and Great Steward of Scotland. Or some such. Because Prince of Wales was the highest of his titles, he was known by that, but he was still called Prince of Wales. In the period between his father's accession and his own creation as Prince of Wales (almost a year), he was known as the Duke of Cornwall and York. john 20:15 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I concur, based on numerous academic reserach sources. He was concurrently Duke of Cornwall and York. Mmorrisbsa ( talk) 02:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, if one is reading Shakespeare's Richard II, or Henry V, or Henry VI, one might come across the Duke of York as a character, and look him up. I think it's helpful to explain which Duke of York is shown in each play. If you disagree, feel free to remove it. john 21:49 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
What about "The Grand Old Duke of York", the one who had ten thousand men, and marched them up to the top of the hill and marched them down again for some reason. Which particular Duke of York was that rhyme inspired by? Saul Taylor 10:37, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Are these not separate dukedoms? We show DOY as having had 8 creations, and DOYA as having had 3 creations. Even though DOYA is described as a “name change” from DOY, the fact that the creations are separately enumerated seems to suggest that this is not merely a name change but an entirely separate title. I wonder why these are all merged in the one article. JackofOz 02:22, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Does this title automatically merge with the crown upon the death of its holder? I've noticed from the list that it has never passed into a second generation. George III's son Frederick had no children; George V became king; George VI became king; and Prince Andrew only has daughters. Is this a non-hereditary title, or is it just "cursed" in that none of its holders ever passed it on? Morhange 01:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, i've recently created the peerage categories on the french wiki. I have a dispute with an other user about a categorization, which leads to this affirmation :
« All dukes of York are dukes in England ». Right or wrong ?
This user has created a new category : "Duke in England", and has sub-categorize "duke of York" (<- category) inside. DoY title was created in the GB an UK peerages too, so i tend to say it's wrong. This user says it's incorrect to sub-categorize "DoY" in "dukes in the peerage of England" "..of GB" and "..of the UK". Can you give me your point of view ? (i need specialists :) )
You can answer me there :
fr:Discussion Utilisateur:PurpleHaze, i'll reply here. Thanks!
--
PurpleHz
16:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The Dukedom of York has never been associated with any territory. The title was originally created to emphasise the strategic significance of the City of York, which was the most important City in the North of England (indeed as a strategic bridgehead in the north of the island of Great Britain it has held this significance from Roman and Viking times). When the title was created the Peerage in place was that of the Peerage of England. This ceased to exist in 1707 with the Act of Union with Scotland, creating the new country of Great Britain (the separate sovereign countries of England and Scotland, with their separate Peerage systems, ceased to exist as sovereign states). Again the Peerage of Great Britain was terminated with the Act of Union in 1801 to create the new country of the United Kingdom. So the title of Duke of York existed in the English Peerage, the Great British Peerage, and the current United Kingdom Peerage. Only if Scotland votes to separate from the Union will the Peerage of England emerge once again (as the Act of Union of 1801 will be dissolved if the Scottish people vote for independence in any future referendum). Ds1994 ( talk) 17:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
The assertion is made that Prince Henry of Wales would be the most likely candidate for the dukedom, given that Andrew has no male heirs to inherit the title, nor produces any male heirs. Assuming Andrew lives to be 80, he would live until 2040. In 2040, Henry would already be 56 years old, and presumably already made a duke. Assuming there is no tragedy, the Dukedom of York will still be in use when the time comes for conferring a dukedom on Henry. Mmorrisbsa ( talk) 02:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
The newer practice seems to be to create cadet princes firstly as earls, and only in their middle years, make them dukes. Edward of Wessex is destined to become a duke in his fifties or later. Harry may well receive an earldom when his marriage is imminent, with a promise to become duke when about in his retirement age :) This has the advantage of allowing the wife of Harry only a lowly title, in case their marriage does like almost any others' marriage.... only if the wife continues undivorced to 1240s or so, she will be duchess :) 82.181.239.182 ( talk) 00:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
The speculation at the end of this article is silly. Given the age of all parties involved, and the apparent longevity of the present royals, some future second son of Prince William of Wales would likely take this title about the year 2050... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.22.179 ( talk) 01:08, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Someone has completely changed my wording to suggest 'if Prince Andrew outlives King Charles' etc This is totally ridiculous as Prince Andrew is nearly twelve years younger than his elder brother, so this scenario is likely anyway! Can I be bothered to change this nonesense? No. Ds1994 ( talk) 18:18, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Ds1994 ( talk) 20:13, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Baron Killarney redirects to here. Should there not be some mention of the title somewhere in the article (if there is some connection between the titles), or should Baron Killarney not be deleted (if there is not)? 83.70.251.202 ( talk) 14:54, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
I changed were to are in 'To the Jacobites, they were Kings James III, Charles III, and Henry IX, respectively'; since I for one am a jacobite, believe it or not. Jacobitism may not be relevant to those who dismiss it, but it still exists. Claverhouse ( talk) 13:17, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Does it mean that the Duke is from York or that he's York's Duke? I'm asking because in some different languages there's a different between the two forms and I wan't to be accurate. Thanks. 15:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.172.110.99 ( talk)
Wait a sec, it's assumed that if Andrew dies without legitimate son to follow, the title will be given to his nephew Henry. If this situation occurs when his nephew William is King? wouldn't William bestow the title on his own second son (if he has one)? GoodDay ( talk) 04:35, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
The Next Duke of York at present the Duke of York has no heirs who can inherit the title if this remains the case when the present Duke of York dies. The title of Duke of York is traditionally given to the second eldest son of the current monarch. In relation to Princess Charlotte is suspect there is another royal title she will get most probably Princess Royal which is the title traditionally given to the sovereigns eldest daughter. King4852 ( talk) 19:39, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Er, 8 + 3 + 3 ≠ 11. Am I missing something here? Should the "eleven" simply be modified to "fourteen"? Perhaps the meaning is that for three of those times it was the Duke of York and Albany, not the Duke of York. But I would think that the former encompasses the latter and should be counted accordingly. -- Saforrest ( talk) 22:48, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I have just deleted the following paragraph: "Since 1461, when the great-grandson of the first duke became King Edward IV, not one of the ten subsequent holders of the title has ever passed it on: they either died without male heirs or became King themselves. This has fuelled the rumour that there is a curse on the title. [1]"
Firstly, the link does not work so the rumour has no source. Regardless, the thing is nonsense. The Dukedom of York since the accession of the Tudors has not been a standard, hereditary dukedom, passing down the line in the usual fashion, but instead a courtesy title given to the second sons of monarchs. For a second son of a monarch to pass the title on essentially requires the first son of that monarch to die before his father and for the second son to himself have two sons. That this has not happened is not a curse. Marplesmustgo ( talk) 15:37, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
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I was searching for English Dukedoms and found a page with categories. One of the categories is "Extinct Dukedoms." When I clicked on this link, I saw the Duke of York was listed as extinct. It is well-known that the Duke of York title has existed for over a thousand years and is still commonly conferred upon the British monarch's second son. I am not familiar with modifying Wikipedia pages, but I think someone who has the necessary knowledge to remove the Duke of York from the category of Extinct Dukedoms. Thank you.
Starsmark ( talk) 05:22, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Starsmark ( talk) 05:07, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
Starsmark ( talk) 03:06, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
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In the article on Richard Neville, 16th Earl of Warwick it states that his son in law (and Edward IV's younger brother) the Duke of Clarence 'was awarded the Duchy of York' by Parliament in 1470 after Henry VI's restoration following Edward's attainder which removed his claim to the title. Assuming this claim to be correct, technically would this not mean that Clarence was either the de jure 5th Duke of York of the first creation (in sucession to his brother), or the first Duke of a new creation for a period in 1470-71 until his defection back to Edward IV (and Edward's eventual restoration as King of England)? If so should the article be amended to reflect this? Dunarc ( talk) 20:44, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
So between 26 November 1470 and 3 April 1471 ? Technically, yes Edouard2 ( talk) 20:40, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:38, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
The table part of the article omits two successive Dukes who were separately created in the 18th century, Prince Edward brother of George III and Prince Frederick, second son of George III, said to have been the 'Grand Old Duke' of the nursery rhyme. I understand they would have been the real sixth and seventh creations, the future George V would have been the eighth and the present Duke of the tenth creation. Am I right? I do note they are mentioned without picture or detailed life dates and family details in the introductory section History. Cloptonson ( talk) 13:03, 26 May 2022 (UTC)