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To User:星光下的人: you provided the following quote from Zuo Zhuan to support your claim that Duke Wen's clan name is Jin: "晋重、 鲁申、卫武、蔡甲午、郑捷、齐潘、宋王臣、莒期" (trans: Jin Chong, Lu Shen, Wei Wu, Cai Jiawu, Zheng Jie, Qi Pan, Song King Chen, Ju Qi). But I don't find this convincing at all. Ancient texts frequently refer to rulers of states with "State name + personal name" ( Tang Shuyu, Cai Shudu, for example), which does not mean the name of the state is the person's clan name. Also look at the "Qi Pan" in the quote, which refers to Duke Zhao of Qi whose personal name is Pan. It's well known that Qi rulers' clan name is Lü, and Qi here clearly refers to the state name, not the clan name. Analogously, the Jin in Jin Chong refers to the state name, not the clan name. -- Zanhe ( talk) 17:21, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
This seems wrong. There was a huge civil war over Qi's succession in 643–2 but no trouble at all in 639. Source? — LlywelynII 00:53, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
The Lives of Extraordinary Women also credits Chong'er's wife with the departure from Qi and implies it had ntg to do with its internal politics. — LlywelynII 08:52, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
The current sources about Jie Zhitui also have more info about the Wen Duke in other contexts as well.
These were previously listed but unused. Kindly restore these to the bibliography once they're being used for inline citations:
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
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To User:星光下的人: you provided the following quote from Zuo Zhuan to support your claim that Duke Wen's clan name is Jin: "晋重、 鲁申、卫武、蔡甲午、郑捷、齐潘、宋王臣、莒期" (trans: Jin Chong, Lu Shen, Wei Wu, Cai Jiawu, Zheng Jie, Qi Pan, Song King Chen, Ju Qi). But I don't find this convincing at all. Ancient texts frequently refer to rulers of states with "State name + personal name" ( Tang Shuyu, Cai Shudu, for example), which does not mean the name of the state is the person's clan name. Also look at the "Qi Pan" in the quote, which refers to Duke Zhao of Qi whose personal name is Pan. It's well known that Qi rulers' clan name is Lü, and Qi here clearly refers to the state name, not the clan name. Analogously, the Jin in Jin Chong refers to the state name, not the clan name. -- Zanhe ( talk) 17:21, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
This seems wrong. There was a huge civil war over Qi's succession in 643–2 but no trouble at all in 639. Source? — LlywelynII 00:53, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
The Lives of Extraordinary Women also credits Chong'er's wife with the departure from Qi and implies it had ntg to do with its internal politics. — LlywelynII 08:52, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
The current sources about Jie Zhitui also have more info about the Wen Duke in other contexts as well.
These were previously listed but unused. Kindly restore these to the bibliography once they're being used for inline citations: