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(Update -- thanks to User:Racconish, the article is once again no longer one sentence. Furthermore, is now has correct tone, and some citations. The message below is still valid, but is now about *keeping* the article proper, going forward -- the difficulties in simply getting it expanded from a single vestigial sentence have now been solved.) 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 14:29, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello, folks. I see that you've had an article here for quite some time now, and are about to survive a request that your page be deleted. That means you are Notable by wikipedia standards; congratulations!
However, if you want to get your article beyond one sentence, which it has been stuck at since 2010 when you had a mild edit-war with one of the regulars around here, there are some things you need to understand. First of all, just because *you* know something is true, does not mean that it belongs in wikipedia. We like things that are reliably sourced: printed in newspapers, fashion magazines, or (*very* rarely) in blogs of Very Important People In The Industry. We also like things that are on television, on the catwalk at important fashion shows, and worn by Notable Persons for Notable Reasons, such as Olympians for their events. Winning awards, being written up in entrepreneurial magazines, getting funding from venture capitalists, and other sorts of things are also Notable by wikipedia standards.
Some concrete examples, from the clothing industry:
I have written up some notes, criticizing an article in the music industry. It is similar enough to your situation, that you might find helpful. See over here -- Talk:Dom_(musician)#History_of_Dom. Unfortunately, it is a huge WP:WALLOFTEXT. But most of the problems you have been having, are also problems that folks were having over at this band's article, so I urge you to skim through. No need to take detailed notes, just try to get a feel for how corporations are advised to interact with wikipedia.
I will post a message on the talkpages of the various IPs that have been editing here from time to time this month; please put your replies here, on this article-talkpage, however, so that they will be easy to find for anybody interested in improving the Duchamp article. One question that is reasonably important: what is the official name of the company? Is it not Duchamp London, rather than simply Duchamp, nowadays? Looking forward to working with you, on getting this article properly done, and ready to stay that way, this time around. If you reply here, and nobody responds promptly, please put a note on my personal talkpage, to remind me. Thanks. You can say anything, or ask anything, here on this article-talkpage. Only the *main* article has to be wikipedia-quality information for encyclopedia-readers. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 06:58, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
This is some info pulled from the edit-history, which needs confirmation by a source. [1] Much of it is suitable for WP:ABOUTSELF, methinks, so if one of the anons making edits for the company responds to my queries, we can probably put much of this material back into the article quickly.
Wikipedia's diff is horrid, so I'll copy most of the important stuff here, with task-numbering where needed.
Retail Partners
Historical
Corporate blog. [13]
click to see the gory details
|
---|
1. "chance discovery by the founder of a cache of 10,000 vintage cufflinks in a Paris flea market back in 1987" 2. "The same craftsman in Birmingham has produced the cufflinks since the company was founded" (methinks this is okay, per WP:ABOUTSELF, since they do not name the craftsman... if they want to claim Joe Superdesigner of Birmingham is the craftsman, on the other hand, then we have to get a ref confirming that from Joe, or from an independent third-party reliable source, as I understand things)
3. "concentrating on mens accessories" (but is not quite good enough perhaps... does not specifically say "other" accessories besides cufflinks) 4. "three years later" aka 1992, according to this internal source, not 1994 according to an early wiki-version 6. "all of the ties are handmade in England. The fabric is woven in England by a Suffolk based company that dates back to the early 1700s and is one of the oldest still designing and weaving silk in the UK" (same comment as for factoid number two... but this is way more specific, and may be enough info to specifically identify the firm... and also may be self-serving per WP:SPIP ... so prolly we need another ref here, either from the weaving firm, or from a WP:RS of the usual sort) 13. "in 2001 the founder approached Marc Psarolis, then working for Mulberry, to join Duchamp as Sales Director. By January 2002" 16. "until in 2006 the founder decided he wanted to pursue other interests" (which is not usually identical to retiring... but this is from the 2009+ corporate blog, not written by Jacobs, so maybe we should just say that the founder 'sold their ownership stake' to marc and kjac, or something equivalently neutral?) 17. "At the same time [2006], his wife Alison joined the company as Design Director" 19. "Designers Four IV who created citation needed the store concept" (this one must have another ref, either the Four IV folks, or WP:RS, to confirm they took part... missed adding the cn-tags in the original diff above, sorry about that) 21. "awarded the 'Best Small Store Design' citation needed at the Retail Interior awards the following year [2007]." (this one does not satisfy WP:ABOUTSELF, and needs a source, either the Retail Interior folks themselves, or vastly preferable, a reliable independent third-party source like The Times or the BBC, which tells us whether the award itself is Notable, rather than merely paid promotion.) 22. "in 2009... jackets were introduced." 23. "to launch when? leather goods, swimwear and underwear"
25. "the core of the collection is very much occasion wear for men who love dressing up, with velvet tuxedos and evening dress shirts for events from big nights out to a day at the races." 26. "head-to-toe" (stores) "stores... Westfield White City and a boutique store on Jermyn Street" (per WP:ABOUTSELF ... which is prolly insufficient in this case, since it is so expensive to have such a store ... maybe a link to the city permitting-website would be sufficient, if there is no journalistic coverage of the grand opening of the individual stores in question?) (retail partners and/or historical) "Selfridges, Harrods and Harvey Nichols" (not good enough, since we also need refs from those retailers confirming the relationship, or WP:RS iff possible) (retail partners) "Bloomingdales in the USA, Barneys in Japan, Holt Renfrew in Canada and David Jones in Australia." (ditto, need refs) |
Looks good to me: 1 2 4 13 17 22 23 24 25 26. Racconish, do you agree? Added: 19 21.
Still needs work: maybe 3, definitely 5, prolly 6, definitely 7/8/9/10/11/12, definitely 14/15, maybe 16, definitely 18/20, prolly stores, definitely retail&historicalPartners. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 16:19, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
This is a citation for factoid#19 and factoid#21, [14] from the company that gives out the awards. So, it proves Duchamp won the award, but not how prestigious the award itself actually is. Here is a cite from DrapersOnline.com about some other company winning the year after. [15] I've never heard of DrapersOnline ... are they considered a reliable source, for the fashion industry, as opposed to a blog? 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 16:51, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Dubai store. [16] Also, two refs below attest to the same store-opening, if Khaleej is no good. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 17:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
New factoid. "...Duchamp collections, which are present in over 350 stores across 35 countries." [17] 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 17:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
New factoid. "...has employed some of the finest craftsmen in England and Italy to produce..." [18] 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 17:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Maybe a factoid? This guy has a blog, and claims to be a Visual Marketing lecturer/consultant. Notable slash reliable? He wrote a short piece (with photo) about the Regent Street store back in 2012, saying "they don't normally do anything very interesting. However, we stopped in our tracks... to capture this little gem. What a relief to finally find something creative at this end of Regent street that grabbed our attention.... will keep an eye on these guys to see what they do next. Job well done we think." [19] If source is notable, prolly can be condensed into a brief "According to Jonathan Baker, the Regent store window-display was becoming significantly more visually creative as of 2012." 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 17:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Info on part-owner Kcaj of Iceland, which had some trouble in 2009. [20] Duchamp is mentioned, but not as 'in trouble' financially (unlike several other Kcaj investment-assets). I could not find a Kcaj / Arev website... is that because they are so famous in the fashion biz, they don't need to advertise? 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 14:26, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
with ties, see #4 above?
with Rion, see #9 above?
with Marc, see #14 above?
with sale, see #20 above?
See also #27, which proves shirts were being offered for sale as of September 2001, or earlier. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 15:22, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Racconish, or anyone else, object to this? It seems to add a nice touch, but I'm not sure what policy applies (if any) about adding archived versions of the company's historical homepage.
p.s. Can somebody tell me what 'ready-to-wear tailoring' actually means? Is that just designer-jargon for 'normal clothes sold off a rack just like in walmart' or is it something else? Thanks. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 15:30, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
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![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 19 October 2013. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
(Update -- thanks to User:Racconish, the article is once again no longer one sentence. Furthermore, is now has correct tone, and some citations. The message below is still valid, but is now about *keeping* the article proper, going forward -- the difficulties in simply getting it expanded from a single vestigial sentence have now been solved.) 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 14:29, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello, folks. I see that you've had an article here for quite some time now, and are about to survive a request that your page be deleted. That means you are Notable by wikipedia standards; congratulations!
However, if you want to get your article beyond one sentence, which it has been stuck at since 2010 when you had a mild edit-war with one of the regulars around here, there are some things you need to understand. First of all, just because *you* know something is true, does not mean that it belongs in wikipedia. We like things that are reliably sourced: printed in newspapers, fashion magazines, or (*very* rarely) in blogs of Very Important People In The Industry. We also like things that are on television, on the catwalk at important fashion shows, and worn by Notable Persons for Notable Reasons, such as Olympians for their events. Winning awards, being written up in entrepreneurial magazines, getting funding from venture capitalists, and other sorts of things are also Notable by wikipedia standards.
Some concrete examples, from the clothing industry:
I have written up some notes, criticizing an article in the music industry. It is similar enough to your situation, that you might find helpful. See over here -- Talk:Dom_(musician)#History_of_Dom. Unfortunately, it is a huge WP:WALLOFTEXT. But most of the problems you have been having, are also problems that folks were having over at this band's article, so I urge you to skim through. No need to take detailed notes, just try to get a feel for how corporations are advised to interact with wikipedia.
I will post a message on the talkpages of the various IPs that have been editing here from time to time this month; please put your replies here, on this article-talkpage, however, so that they will be easy to find for anybody interested in improving the Duchamp article. One question that is reasonably important: what is the official name of the company? Is it not Duchamp London, rather than simply Duchamp, nowadays? Looking forward to working with you, on getting this article properly done, and ready to stay that way, this time around. If you reply here, and nobody responds promptly, please put a note on my personal talkpage, to remind me. Thanks. You can say anything, or ask anything, here on this article-talkpage. Only the *main* article has to be wikipedia-quality information for encyclopedia-readers. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 06:58, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
This is some info pulled from the edit-history, which needs confirmation by a source. [1] Much of it is suitable for WP:ABOUTSELF, methinks, so if one of the anons making edits for the company responds to my queries, we can probably put much of this material back into the article quickly.
Wikipedia's diff is horrid, so I'll copy most of the important stuff here, with task-numbering where needed.
Retail Partners
Historical
Corporate blog. [13]
click to see the gory details
|
---|
1. "chance discovery by the founder of a cache of 10,000 vintage cufflinks in a Paris flea market back in 1987" 2. "The same craftsman in Birmingham has produced the cufflinks since the company was founded" (methinks this is okay, per WP:ABOUTSELF, since they do not name the craftsman... if they want to claim Joe Superdesigner of Birmingham is the craftsman, on the other hand, then we have to get a ref confirming that from Joe, or from an independent third-party reliable source, as I understand things)
3. "concentrating on mens accessories" (but is not quite good enough perhaps... does not specifically say "other" accessories besides cufflinks) 4. "three years later" aka 1992, according to this internal source, not 1994 according to an early wiki-version 6. "all of the ties are handmade in England. The fabric is woven in England by a Suffolk based company that dates back to the early 1700s and is one of the oldest still designing and weaving silk in the UK" (same comment as for factoid number two... but this is way more specific, and may be enough info to specifically identify the firm... and also may be self-serving per WP:SPIP ... so prolly we need another ref here, either from the weaving firm, or from a WP:RS of the usual sort) 13. "in 2001 the founder approached Marc Psarolis, then working for Mulberry, to join Duchamp as Sales Director. By January 2002" 16. "until in 2006 the founder decided he wanted to pursue other interests" (which is not usually identical to retiring... but this is from the 2009+ corporate blog, not written by Jacobs, so maybe we should just say that the founder 'sold their ownership stake' to marc and kjac, or something equivalently neutral?) 17. "At the same time [2006], his wife Alison joined the company as Design Director" 19. "Designers Four IV who created citation needed the store concept" (this one must have another ref, either the Four IV folks, or WP:RS, to confirm they took part... missed adding the cn-tags in the original diff above, sorry about that) 21. "awarded the 'Best Small Store Design' citation needed at the Retail Interior awards the following year [2007]." (this one does not satisfy WP:ABOUTSELF, and needs a source, either the Retail Interior folks themselves, or vastly preferable, a reliable independent third-party source like The Times or the BBC, which tells us whether the award itself is Notable, rather than merely paid promotion.) 22. "in 2009... jackets were introduced." 23. "to launch when? leather goods, swimwear and underwear"
25. "the core of the collection is very much occasion wear for men who love dressing up, with velvet tuxedos and evening dress shirts for events from big nights out to a day at the races." 26. "head-to-toe" (stores) "stores... Westfield White City and a boutique store on Jermyn Street" (per WP:ABOUTSELF ... which is prolly insufficient in this case, since it is so expensive to have such a store ... maybe a link to the city permitting-website would be sufficient, if there is no journalistic coverage of the grand opening of the individual stores in question?) (retail partners and/or historical) "Selfridges, Harrods and Harvey Nichols" (not good enough, since we also need refs from those retailers confirming the relationship, or WP:RS iff possible) (retail partners) "Bloomingdales in the USA, Barneys in Japan, Holt Renfrew in Canada and David Jones in Australia." (ditto, need refs) |
Looks good to me: 1 2 4 13 17 22 23 24 25 26. Racconish, do you agree? Added: 19 21.
Still needs work: maybe 3, definitely 5, prolly 6, definitely 7/8/9/10/11/12, definitely 14/15, maybe 16, definitely 18/20, prolly stores, definitely retail&historicalPartners. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 16:19, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
This is a citation for factoid#19 and factoid#21, [14] from the company that gives out the awards. So, it proves Duchamp won the award, but not how prestigious the award itself actually is. Here is a cite from DrapersOnline.com about some other company winning the year after. [15] I've never heard of DrapersOnline ... are they considered a reliable source, for the fashion industry, as opposed to a blog? 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 16:51, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Dubai store. [16] Also, two refs below attest to the same store-opening, if Khaleej is no good. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 17:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
New factoid. "...Duchamp collections, which are present in over 350 stores across 35 countries." [17] 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 17:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
New factoid. "...has employed some of the finest craftsmen in England and Italy to produce..." [18] 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 17:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Maybe a factoid? This guy has a blog, and claims to be a Visual Marketing lecturer/consultant. Notable slash reliable? He wrote a short piece (with photo) about the Regent Street store back in 2012, saying "they don't normally do anything very interesting. However, we stopped in our tracks... to capture this little gem. What a relief to finally find something creative at this end of Regent street that grabbed our attention.... will keep an eye on these guys to see what they do next. Job well done we think." [19] If source is notable, prolly can be condensed into a brief "According to Jonathan Baker, the Regent store window-display was becoming significantly more visually creative as of 2012." 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 17:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Info on part-owner Kcaj of Iceland, which had some trouble in 2009. [20] Duchamp is mentioned, but not as 'in trouble' financially (unlike several other Kcaj investment-assets). I could not find a Kcaj / Arev website... is that because they are so famous in the fashion biz, they don't need to advertise? 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 14:26, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
with ties, see #4 above?
with Rion, see #9 above?
with Marc, see #14 above?
with sale, see #20 above?
See also #27, which proves shirts were being offered for sale as of September 2001, or earlier. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 15:22, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Racconish, or anyone else, object to this? It seems to add a nice touch, but I'm not sure what policy applies (if any) about adding archived versions of the company's historical homepage.
p.s. Can somebody tell me what 'ready-to-wear tailoring' actually means? Is that just designer-jargon for 'normal clothes sold off a rack just like in walmart' or is it something else? Thanks. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 15:30, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Duchamp (clothing). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:07, 14 September 2017 (UTC)