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It isn't listed as so on the uk govenment web site. see http://www.jncc.gov.uk/page-1816 Zeimusu | Talk page 21:41, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Is it interesting and maybe useful for the article? It is also fascinating to note that Darwin himself conducted several experiments evaluating the effects of small doses on an insect-eating plant (Drosera rotundifolia, commonly called sundew) that is commonly used in homeopathic medicine. He found that solutions of certain salts of ammonia stimulated the glands of the plant's tentacles and caused the plant to turn inward. He made this solution more and more dilute, but the plant still was able to detect the presence of the salt. On July 7, 1874, he wrote to a well-known physiologist, Professor F. C. Donders of Utrecht, Netherlands, that he observed that 1/4 000 000 of a grain had a demonstrable effect upon the Drosera, and Darwin was shocked and dismayed to write, ‘the 1/20 000 000th of a grain of the crystallised salt does the same. Now, I am quite unhappy at the thought of having to publish such a statement’ (11).
Astonished by his observation, Darwin likened it to a dog that perceives the odor of an animal a quarter of a mile distant. He said: ‘Yet these particles must be infinitely smaller than the one twenty millionth of a grain of phosphate of ammonia’ (21). Darwin said about this spectacular phenomenon:
The reader will best realize this degree of dilution by remembering that 5,000 ounces would more than fill a thirty-one gallon cask [barrel]; and that to this large body of water one grain of the salt was added; only half a drachm, or thirty minims, of the solution being poured over a leaf. Yet this amount sufficed to cause the inflection of almost every tentacle, and often the blade of the leaf. ... My results were for a long time incredible, even to myself, and I anxiously sought for every source of error. ... The observations were repeated during several years. Two of my sons, who were as incredulous as myself, compared several lots of leaves simultaneously immersed in the weaker solutions and in water, and declared that there could be no doubt about the difference in their appearance. ... In fact every time that we perceive an odor, we have evidence that infinitely smaller particles act on our nerves (p. 170) (21). In Darwin's book on his experiments with Drosera, he expressed complete amazement at the hypersensitivity of a plant to extremely small doses of certain chemicals: ‘Moreover, this extreme sensitiveness, exceeding that of the most delicate part of the human body, as well as the power of transmitting various impulses from one part of the leaf to another, have been acquired without the intervention of any nervous system’ (p. 272) (21). http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/7/1/33
This is from reliable sources and I m just asking if it could be useful. Please do not delete other editors contributions. -- BeatriceX ( talk) 10:41, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
-- BeatriceX ( talk) 05:12, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
You dont want to read. Again. My personal views ? The above is taken from Darwin's book about his experiments on Drosera.Read please. It is not hard. -- BeatriceX ( talk) 10:57, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
"Darwin " Darwin now had the framework of his theory of natural selection "by which to work",[84] as his "prime hobby".[85] His research included animal husbandry and extensive experiments with plants, finding evidence that species were not fixed and investigating many detailed ideas to refine and substantiate his theory.[3] For fifteen years this work was in the background to his main occupation of writing on geology and publishing expert reports on the Beagle collections.[86] When FitzRoy's Narrative was published in May 1839, Darwin's Journal and Remarks was such a success as the third volume that later that year it was published on its own.[87]
Wikipedia'S editors here are using his books as references for the article. Is this original research? -- BeatriceX ( talk) 12:39, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Ok, folks. Here's my $0.02. While I dislike the mention of homeopathy, including references to what Darwin tried on Drosera rotundifolia to illicit movement may be a good idea. He was trying to figure out if it was a chemical of physical stimulant that caused tentacle movement. This much is good to include. Without knowing more or re-reading that passage of Insectivorous Plants right now, I can't say whether the dilution information is necessary. There is, however, a large difference between dilution of a concentrated substance to a point that would still illicit movement (biology often operates with picomolar concentrations) and homeopathy, which dilutes substances out of the concoction, relying on the silly and thoroughly debunked notion of water memory. We shouldn't include pseudoscience, but we should note the different things tried on this plant. I'll be travelling today, but I can work on including this later in the week. Rkitko ( talk) 17:04, 26 December 2010 (UTC);
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
Cut:
It isn't listed as so on the uk govenment web site. see http://www.jncc.gov.uk/page-1816 Zeimusu | Talk page 21:41, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Is it interesting and maybe useful for the article? It is also fascinating to note that Darwin himself conducted several experiments evaluating the effects of small doses on an insect-eating plant (Drosera rotundifolia, commonly called sundew) that is commonly used in homeopathic medicine. He found that solutions of certain salts of ammonia stimulated the glands of the plant's tentacles and caused the plant to turn inward. He made this solution more and more dilute, but the plant still was able to detect the presence of the salt. On July 7, 1874, he wrote to a well-known physiologist, Professor F. C. Donders of Utrecht, Netherlands, that he observed that 1/4 000 000 of a grain had a demonstrable effect upon the Drosera, and Darwin was shocked and dismayed to write, ‘the 1/20 000 000th of a grain of the crystallised salt does the same. Now, I am quite unhappy at the thought of having to publish such a statement’ (11).
Astonished by his observation, Darwin likened it to a dog that perceives the odor of an animal a quarter of a mile distant. He said: ‘Yet these particles must be infinitely smaller than the one twenty millionth of a grain of phosphate of ammonia’ (21). Darwin said about this spectacular phenomenon:
The reader will best realize this degree of dilution by remembering that 5,000 ounces would more than fill a thirty-one gallon cask [barrel]; and that to this large body of water one grain of the salt was added; only half a drachm, or thirty minims, of the solution being poured over a leaf. Yet this amount sufficed to cause the inflection of almost every tentacle, and often the blade of the leaf. ... My results were for a long time incredible, even to myself, and I anxiously sought for every source of error. ... The observations were repeated during several years. Two of my sons, who were as incredulous as myself, compared several lots of leaves simultaneously immersed in the weaker solutions and in water, and declared that there could be no doubt about the difference in their appearance. ... In fact every time that we perceive an odor, we have evidence that infinitely smaller particles act on our nerves (p. 170) (21). In Darwin's book on his experiments with Drosera, he expressed complete amazement at the hypersensitivity of a plant to extremely small doses of certain chemicals: ‘Moreover, this extreme sensitiveness, exceeding that of the most delicate part of the human body, as well as the power of transmitting various impulses from one part of the leaf to another, have been acquired without the intervention of any nervous system’ (p. 272) (21). http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/7/1/33
This is from reliable sources and I m just asking if it could be useful. Please do not delete other editors contributions. -- BeatriceX ( talk) 10:41, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
-- BeatriceX ( talk) 05:12, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
You dont want to read. Again. My personal views ? The above is taken from Darwin's book about his experiments on Drosera.Read please. It is not hard. -- BeatriceX ( talk) 10:57, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
"Darwin " Darwin now had the framework of his theory of natural selection "by which to work",[84] as his "prime hobby".[85] His research included animal husbandry and extensive experiments with plants, finding evidence that species were not fixed and investigating many detailed ideas to refine and substantiate his theory.[3] For fifteen years this work was in the background to his main occupation of writing on geology and publishing expert reports on the Beagle collections.[86] When FitzRoy's Narrative was published in May 1839, Darwin's Journal and Remarks was such a success as the third volume that later that year it was published on its own.[87]
Wikipedia'S editors here are using his books as references for the article. Is this original research? -- BeatriceX ( talk) 12:39, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Ok, folks. Here's my $0.02. While I dislike the mention of homeopathy, including references to what Darwin tried on Drosera rotundifolia to illicit movement may be a good idea. He was trying to figure out if it was a chemical of physical stimulant that caused tentacle movement. This much is good to include. Without knowing more or re-reading that passage of Insectivorous Plants right now, I can't say whether the dilution information is necessary. There is, however, a large difference between dilution of a concentrated substance to a point that would still illicit movement (biology often operates with picomolar concentrations) and homeopathy, which dilutes substances out of the concoction, relying on the silly and thoroughly debunked notion of water memory. We shouldn't include pseudoscience, but we should note the different things tried on this plant. I'll be travelling today, but I can work on including this later in the week. Rkitko ( talk) 17:04, 26 December 2010 (UTC);