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Does any editor have subscriptions in The Courier-Mail and The Australian? The following articles might have more details on his political party and the billboard/advertising situation:
Thanks in advance. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 13:57, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
@ ItsPugle: You reverted ( diff) way more than the mention of "more than 2000 members". Personally, i don't care whether this is removed or not, but i initially saw it as a relevant detail. Besides, this is sourced with an article by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which is a reliable source, and cannot be removed per WP:WEASEL. By the way, the over 2000 membership relates to a recent Australian law that requires a minimum of 1500 members for the creation of a party ( see here). I also don't agree with the WP:NPOV issue you addressed. I don't see anything that violates this policy, and the version you reverted back to, was also less detailed; such as the Uyghur candidates being two (the prior version says "[m]ultiple"), and the four candidates in total (aside of Drew), having Uyghur, Hong Kong, and Tibetan backgrounds. I also included their names. You also removed every mention of the billboard/advertising situation. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 12:50, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for understanding my position as well. I wouldn't have a problem to wait more, but since your schedule isn't certain, and you gave me the green light, i will reinstate the content and we can discuss any concern you may have when you are ready; i will not include the "more than 2000 members" statement, since you were directly opposed to it in your edit summary. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 05:48, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
@
Colgated: You reverted me with the following edit summary, WP:PROPER is clearly irrelevant, in fact I was fixing the non-capitalised proper noun "Chinese Communist party" by editing in the official name of the party (CPC). Please expand on what is UNDUE on the talk page
.
MOS:PROPER is relevant. Communist Party of China being the official name of the party is no valid argument for your revert. We ought to use nouns that are most familiar to readers of English. This has already been established in the respective article of the Chinese Communist Party per WP:COMMONNAME, and extensively discussed in its talk page with a number of unsuccessful requested moves. Even the numerous references in this article, with the exception of one, use "Chinese Communist Party" instead of "Communist Party of China"; see WP:ENGLISH (If an examination of the sources in an article shows that one name or version of the name stands out as clearly the most commonly used in the English language, we should follow the sources and use it. Whenever something else is demonstrably more common in reliable sources for English as a whole, and this is not a question of national varieties of English, use that instead.).
Now on
WP:UNDUE. You chose to include in the lede the following (in bold), In May 2020, he was suspended for two years from the University of Queensland who alleged 11 instances of misconduct, including bullying and discrimination.
The UQ Senate Disciplinary Appeals Committee upheld only two of the over eleven initial allegations; specifically, one was Pavlou's posts on a Facebook page known as UQ Stalkerspace, and the second was a March 2020 incident in which Pavlou, while wearing a hazmat suit, hung a sign outside the office of the UQ vice chancellor, Peter Høj, that read: "Covid-19 Biohazard: Condemned." So, the inclusion of allegations such as "bullying and discrimination" in the lede, appears to be
WP:UNDUE; especially when it lacks any mention of the conclusion by SDAC.
I also have an issue with the description of EOKA as an anti-communist organization, when it was much more than that; namely, a nationalist, conservative, anti-imperialist, and anti-communist guerilla organization. Furthermore, it was most notable for its anti-imperialist struggle against British rule in Cyprus, and the eventual union ( Enosis) with Greece. Not even the lede in the respective article describes it as anti-communist. We would need to include its other ideologies as well, but i don't see why we should include so many details about an organization that essentially falls outside the scope of this article; or how it would improve readability. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 17:14, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
Greek-Australian student, Drew Pavlou, is facing a University of Queensland disciplinary hearing on April 27, where university administrators will likely expel the philosophy student....The student also revealed to Greek City Times that his family hailed from Larnaca in Cyprus' south coast and that he had revolutionary heritage with his grandmother's brother becoming a martyr as an EOKA fighter against British occupation. With a martyr in his family, it can be seen why he feels passionate to ardently defend a cause he believes in.
In July 2019, during the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests, Pavlou organised a protest at the University of Queensland in support of the Hong Kong democracy movement.
... with an eye specifically on alleged issues related to the Communist Party of China, ...
Really don't desire to waste time edit warring. But try to understand that "alleged" means precisely that. It means "alleged". You cannot just present that Drew is telling the truth when he had accused the Met police of illegally denying him of his rights, etc. So stop adding in statements as if everything Drew writes or claims, is to be taken as hard facts at face value especially when they are merely allegations and have not been proven to be ruled as true by a court. 49.186.55.170 ( talk) 04:31, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Accusations is most often a legal term. None of the citations cite legal proceedings. Allegations might be the better term, it is the term used in the Sydney Herald piece re: the college reprimands. The term "racism" is pretty dubious also.
Also A LOT of summary and conjecture. The first sentence use of "targeting" is highly dubious. Its opinion and unsubstantiated by any of the sources.
The cited sources actually contradict this. Such as the Crikey piece, "Pavlou, who campaigns against the Chinese government, believes the quotes had allegedly been added to the document to “paint him as a racist”.
Also, the citations are utterly disorganized. The first 2 paragraphs could be deleted alone for mis-citation. Stono rebellion ( talk) 03:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
The article subject, who has a substantial X/Twitter following, asked followers to edit this article. Ex: https://twitter.com/DrewPavlou/status/1734036522096271480 Should this article be protected? Saucysalsa30 ( talk) 19:47, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
I've given the article a heavy edit, particular considering this is a WP:BLP article by a not un-litigious individual where we should be careful not to make contentious statements without a firm grounding in reliable sources. A lot of parts of the article seemed to be aimed at hyping a particular aspect of an event rather than just summarising what secondary sources say about it, and I've tried to turn it back in to being a summary. I've also given the lead section an edit to remove the citations there per MOS:LEADCITE. FOARP ( talk) 20:40, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about
living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Drew Pavlou article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Does any editor have subscriptions in The Courier-Mail and The Australian? The following articles might have more details on his political party and the billboard/advertising situation:
Thanks in advance. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 13:57, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
@ ItsPugle: You reverted ( diff) way more than the mention of "more than 2000 members". Personally, i don't care whether this is removed or not, but i initially saw it as a relevant detail. Besides, this is sourced with an article by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which is a reliable source, and cannot be removed per WP:WEASEL. By the way, the over 2000 membership relates to a recent Australian law that requires a minimum of 1500 members for the creation of a party ( see here). I also don't agree with the WP:NPOV issue you addressed. I don't see anything that violates this policy, and the version you reverted back to, was also less detailed; such as the Uyghur candidates being two (the prior version says "[m]ultiple"), and the four candidates in total (aside of Drew), having Uyghur, Hong Kong, and Tibetan backgrounds. I also included their names. You also removed every mention of the billboard/advertising situation. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 12:50, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for understanding my position as well. I wouldn't have a problem to wait more, but since your schedule isn't certain, and you gave me the green light, i will reinstate the content and we can discuss any concern you may have when you are ready; i will not include the "more than 2000 members" statement, since you were directly opposed to it in your edit summary. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 05:48, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
@
Colgated: You reverted me with the following edit summary, WP:PROPER is clearly irrelevant, in fact I was fixing the non-capitalised proper noun "Chinese Communist party" by editing in the official name of the party (CPC). Please expand on what is UNDUE on the talk page
.
MOS:PROPER is relevant. Communist Party of China being the official name of the party is no valid argument for your revert. We ought to use nouns that are most familiar to readers of English. This has already been established in the respective article of the Chinese Communist Party per WP:COMMONNAME, and extensively discussed in its talk page with a number of unsuccessful requested moves. Even the numerous references in this article, with the exception of one, use "Chinese Communist Party" instead of "Communist Party of China"; see WP:ENGLISH (If an examination of the sources in an article shows that one name or version of the name stands out as clearly the most commonly used in the English language, we should follow the sources and use it. Whenever something else is demonstrably more common in reliable sources for English as a whole, and this is not a question of national varieties of English, use that instead.).
Now on
WP:UNDUE. You chose to include in the lede the following (in bold), In May 2020, he was suspended for two years from the University of Queensland who alleged 11 instances of misconduct, including bullying and discrimination.
The UQ Senate Disciplinary Appeals Committee upheld only two of the over eleven initial allegations; specifically, one was Pavlou's posts on a Facebook page known as UQ Stalkerspace, and the second was a March 2020 incident in which Pavlou, while wearing a hazmat suit, hung a sign outside the office of the UQ vice chancellor, Peter Høj, that read: "Covid-19 Biohazard: Condemned." So, the inclusion of allegations such as "bullying and discrimination" in the lede, appears to be
WP:UNDUE; especially when it lacks any mention of the conclusion by SDAC.
I also have an issue with the description of EOKA as an anti-communist organization, when it was much more than that; namely, a nationalist, conservative, anti-imperialist, and anti-communist guerilla organization. Furthermore, it was most notable for its anti-imperialist struggle against British rule in Cyprus, and the eventual union ( Enosis) with Greece. Not even the lede in the respective article describes it as anti-communist. We would need to include its other ideologies as well, but i don't see why we should include so many details about an organization that essentially falls outside the scope of this article; or how it would improve readability. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 17:14, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
Greek-Australian student, Drew Pavlou, is facing a University of Queensland disciplinary hearing on April 27, where university administrators will likely expel the philosophy student....The student also revealed to Greek City Times that his family hailed from Larnaca in Cyprus' south coast and that he had revolutionary heritage with his grandmother's brother becoming a martyr as an EOKA fighter against British occupation. With a martyr in his family, it can be seen why he feels passionate to ardently defend a cause he believes in.
In July 2019, during the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests, Pavlou organised a protest at the University of Queensland in support of the Hong Kong democracy movement.
... with an eye specifically on alleged issues related to the Communist Party of China, ...
Really don't desire to waste time edit warring. But try to understand that "alleged" means precisely that. It means "alleged". You cannot just present that Drew is telling the truth when he had accused the Met police of illegally denying him of his rights, etc. So stop adding in statements as if everything Drew writes or claims, is to be taken as hard facts at face value especially when they are merely allegations and have not been proven to be ruled as true by a court. 49.186.55.170 ( talk) 04:31, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Accusations is most often a legal term. None of the citations cite legal proceedings. Allegations might be the better term, it is the term used in the Sydney Herald piece re: the college reprimands. The term "racism" is pretty dubious also.
Also A LOT of summary and conjecture. The first sentence use of "targeting" is highly dubious. Its opinion and unsubstantiated by any of the sources.
The cited sources actually contradict this. Such as the Crikey piece, "Pavlou, who campaigns against the Chinese government, believes the quotes had allegedly been added to the document to “paint him as a racist”.
Also, the citations are utterly disorganized. The first 2 paragraphs could be deleted alone for mis-citation. Stono rebellion ( talk) 03:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
The article subject, who has a substantial X/Twitter following, asked followers to edit this article. Ex: https://twitter.com/DrewPavlou/status/1734036522096271480 Should this article be protected? Saucysalsa30 ( talk) 19:47, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
I've given the article a heavy edit, particular considering this is a WP:BLP article by a not un-litigious individual where we should be careful not to make contentious statements without a firm grounding in reliable sources. A lot of parts of the article seemed to be aimed at hyping a particular aspect of an event rather than just summarising what secondary sources say about it, and I've tried to turn it back in to being a summary. I've also given the lead section an edit to remove the citations there per MOS:LEADCITE. FOARP ( talk) 20:40, 9 April 2024 (UTC)