![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
— Newsweek 1992
— The New Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll, 1995
— The Sex Revolts: Gender, Rebellion, and Rock'n'roll, 1995
— The Sex Revolts: Gender, Rebellion, and Rock'n'roll, 1995
— Alt. Culture: An A-to-z Guide to the '90s : Underground, 1995
— Legends of Rock Guitar: The Essential Reference of Rock's Greatest Guitarists, 1997.
— Alt Culture: An A-z Guide to 90's America, 1995
— New York Magazine, 31. October 1994.
— SPIN April 1993
(A source, that clearly describes dream pop as a British phenomenon.)
— SPIN April 1993
— Mademoiselle: The Magazine for the Smart Young Woman, 1996
— Option, 1996
— CMJ New Music Monthly, October 1996
— The Trouser Press Guide to '90s Rock, 1997
— Option, 1998
— CMJ New Music Monthly, February 1999
And there are many many more! --
RivetHeadCulture (
talk)
14:05, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Those are fine sources but they are all over 15 years old and have no bearing on how the genre term is used today. For the umpteenth time, you do not get to decide that there's some magical cutoff point and that these older usages are superior or invalidate modern ones. Greg Fasolino ( talk) 16:18, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
No, it doesn't have to do that. It cannot and should not eliminate or minimize the old usage, but it can describe both usages equally, as there is no reason in Wikipedia's rules to maintain that a smaller old usage must be the primary topic and a broader, more wide modern usage should not be of equal prominence. And BTW if anything, modern dream pop (as in bands in the genre that emerged in the last decade) is far more of an American musical genre than a British one. Beach House and all of the Captured Tracks bands are American. Greg Fasolino ( talk) 17:01, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
American sources never really did get shoegazing right, and many of those you cited above are erroneous in their understanding of the facts. It's noticeable that none of them are from 1990/1991 when shoegazing as a 'scene' (not that there really was one) was getting so much coverage in the British music press. As an example, the first band to be described as 'shoegazers', originating the term, were Moose, and they could hardly have been "lionized by the capricious British music press" and later dismissed as shoegazers when the term was used in a review of their first gig. Having said that, they mostly qualify as 'reliable sources' so just like those published today we should represent what they say in our articles even if we personally believe they're full of crap. -- Michig ( talk) 20:14, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
There is absolutely no source for that (and I'm sure a source doesn't exist). It's POV at its finest. -- RivetHeadCulture ( talk) 12:33, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
"These bands kept the atmospheric qualities of dream pop, but added the intensity of post-punk-influenced bands such as
Sonic Youth and
The Jesus and Mary Chain."
My belly hurts if i see this article... The shoegazing section is simply ahistorical. Listen to A. R. Kane's late-'80s dream pop sound (songs like "Haunting", "Up", "W.O.G.S." etc.). It's shoegazing par excellence. The distinction is completely fictitious. The influences are the same, the sound is the same. -- RivetHeadCulture ( talk) 16:34, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Show Gaze was never dream pop. People associate it now because of the cocteau twins. It never was dream pop it was post punk. Starbwoy ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Dream pop existed as a term since the mid 80's even before 1985. I used to hear the term. Its retroactive labeling. Some of the of the billion terms that people now attach to music were talked about but were not necessarily written down. When Wikipedia came on the scene then idiots came out of the woodwork to try and codify every and any term associated with music, and they always get it wrong. the term was first applied to more poppier sound but now to stuff like Cocteau Twins
How the eff can AR Kane be attributed to starting Dream pop? At times you can literally hear how they ripped the Cocteau twins sound. shoe gaze was she gaze and not dream pop. It took elements of Cocteau twin, post punk of the time and liberal stealing from Spacemen 3, no not Jesus and mary chain as much, or what most people think.
the poppier and love sick side of OMD can also be dream dream pop. Dream pop was first associated with electronic music and synths, not guitars. Cocteau twin were later lumped in because of their heavy use of atmospheric backing tracks, electronics. Before this the term mean somthing much poppier
Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark - Souvenir (the classic sound of dream pop) Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark - So In Love. Would of been the original sound of dream pop if you asked someone what dream pop sounded like at the time. Cocteau twin were not originally associated with the dream term. Cocteau twins would of been called post punk, along with stuff like clan of Xymox, and everything on 4AD People, use some common sense...in the Title is the word POP, cocteau twins and most of the post punk sound of the time was not POP.
The term sees to have changed several times. Starbwoy ( talk) 00:31, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
— Newsweek 1992
— The New Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll, 1995
— The Sex Revolts: Gender, Rebellion, and Rock'n'roll, 1995
— The Sex Revolts: Gender, Rebellion, and Rock'n'roll, 1995
— Alt. Culture: An A-to-z Guide to the '90s : Underground, 1995
— Legends of Rock Guitar: The Essential Reference of Rock's Greatest Guitarists, 1997.
— Alt Culture: An A-z Guide to 90's America, 1995
— New York Magazine, 31. October 1994.
— SPIN April 1993
(A source, that clearly describes dream pop as a British phenomenon.)
— SPIN April 1993
— Mademoiselle: The Magazine for the Smart Young Woman, 1996
— Option, 1996
— CMJ New Music Monthly, October 1996
— The Trouser Press Guide to '90s Rock, 1997
— Option, 1998
— CMJ New Music Monthly, February 1999
And there are many many more! --
RivetHeadCulture (
talk)
14:05, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Those are fine sources but they are all over 15 years old and have no bearing on how the genre term is used today. For the umpteenth time, you do not get to decide that there's some magical cutoff point and that these older usages are superior or invalidate modern ones. Greg Fasolino ( talk) 16:18, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
No, it doesn't have to do that. It cannot and should not eliminate or minimize the old usage, but it can describe both usages equally, as there is no reason in Wikipedia's rules to maintain that a smaller old usage must be the primary topic and a broader, more wide modern usage should not be of equal prominence. And BTW if anything, modern dream pop (as in bands in the genre that emerged in the last decade) is far more of an American musical genre than a British one. Beach House and all of the Captured Tracks bands are American. Greg Fasolino ( talk) 17:01, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
American sources never really did get shoegazing right, and many of those you cited above are erroneous in their understanding of the facts. It's noticeable that none of them are from 1990/1991 when shoegazing as a 'scene' (not that there really was one) was getting so much coverage in the British music press. As an example, the first band to be described as 'shoegazers', originating the term, were Moose, and they could hardly have been "lionized by the capricious British music press" and later dismissed as shoegazers when the term was used in a review of their first gig. Having said that, they mostly qualify as 'reliable sources' so just like those published today we should represent what they say in our articles even if we personally believe they're full of crap. -- Michig ( talk) 20:14, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
There is absolutely no source for that (and I'm sure a source doesn't exist). It's POV at its finest. -- RivetHeadCulture ( talk) 12:33, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
"These bands kept the atmospheric qualities of dream pop, but added the intensity of post-punk-influenced bands such as
Sonic Youth and
The Jesus and Mary Chain."
My belly hurts if i see this article... The shoegazing section is simply ahistorical. Listen to A. R. Kane's late-'80s dream pop sound (songs like "Haunting", "Up", "W.O.G.S." etc.). It's shoegazing par excellence. The distinction is completely fictitious. The influences are the same, the sound is the same. -- RivetHeadCulture ( talk) 16:34, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Show Gaze was never dream pop. People associate it now because of the cocteau twins. It never was dream pop it was post punk. Starbwoy ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Dream pop existed as a term since the mid 80's even before 1985. I used to hear the term. Its retroactive labeling. Some of the of the billion terms that people now attach to music were talked about but were not necessarily written down. When Wikipedia came on the scene then idiots came out of the woodwork to try and codify every and any term associated with music, and they always get it wrong. the term was first applied to more poppier sound but now to stuff like Cocteau Twins
How the eff can AR Kane be attributed to starting Dream pop? At times you can literally hear how they ripped the Cocteau twins sound. shoe gaze was she gaze and not dream pop. It took elements of Cocteau twin, post punk of the time and liberal stealing from Spacemen 3, no not Jesus and mary chain as much, or what most people think.
the poppier and love sick side of OMD can also be dream dream pop. Dream pop was first associated with electronic music and synths, not guitars. Cocteau twin were later lumped in because of their heavy use of atmospheric backing tracks, electronics. Before this the term mean somthing much poppier
Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark - Souvenir (the classic sound of dream pop) Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark - So In Love. Would of been the original sound of dream pop if you asked someone what dream pop sounded like at the time. Cocteau twin were not originally associated with the dream term. Cocteau twins would of been called post punk, along with stuff like clan of Xymox, and everything on 4AD People, use some common sense...in the Title is the word POP, cocteau twins and most of the post punk sound of the time was not POP.
The term sees to have changed several times. Starbwoy ( talk) 00:31, 18 November 2015 (UTC)