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Archive 1 |
I would like to suggest several changes that I think would improve the article. Since I have a WP:COI, I am posting my suggestions on the Talk page for others to review and edit. I have tried to adhere to all Wikipedia policies on neutrality WP:NPOV, non-promotional material, reliable sourcing, etc. and if I haven’t managed that below, I’d very much like to discuss your ideas for addressing any potential issues. In general, I believe these changes improve the page because they provide more context around the subject therefore making the entry better for the reader. These changes also provide a corrections to factual mistakes which is integral to the success of the Wikipedia project.
1.- I suggest adding the following to the last sentence of the section ‘Early Life’ to give more context around Seidman’s dyslexia:
Seidman’s dyslexia is the subject of a case study in the book The Dyslexic Advantage [1]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
2. I recommend adding the following to the LRN section of the page to provide more context around Seidman’s direction of the company’s activities: Seidman testified before the U.S. Sentencing Commission about the need for companies to develop ethical cultures instead of ‘check-the-box’, compliance-only approaches, and his testimony helped shaped the amendments to the Federal Sentencing Guidelines [2]
LRN has a flat reporting structure which emphasizes "collaborative management." A New York Times column described the company as moving toward self-governance with staff reporting to the company mission instead of having formal titles. [3] Lastly, given that the source is more than a decade old I believe the article should omit the last sentence in this section. As a privately held company LRN does not disclose it's revenue, so it might be confusing to the reader.
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
3. I suggest the following changes to the first paragraph of the "Best-Selling Author" section to provide more context around the influence of Dov and his book:
Seidman wrote a book entitled: How: Why HOW We Do Anything Means Everything... in Business (and in Life), published in September 2007. In 2011, How: Why HOW We Do Anything Means Everything an expanded edition was published. The expanded edition contains a foreword written by former United States President Bill Clinton. Divided into four parts, it covers the topics such as how trust and reputation are critical to prospering in business and how modifying ones actions and decisions can make the road to success easier to navigate. The second edition of his book became a New York Times Best Seller. [4]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
4. I suggest adding a section called “Awards and Honors” above “Personal Life” to include the following: Seidman gave the commencement address at UCLA college of Letters and Science in 2002. [5] He was given the Jurisprudence Award by the Anti-Defamation League in 2003. [6] In 2008, the Economic Times named Seidman one of the Top 60 Global Thinkers of the Last Decade. [7] Since 2008, Seidman and LRN have been the corporate partner of The Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity’s Prize in Ethics Essay Contest, an annual competition for students to analyze ethical issues. [8]
In 2009, Seidman was awarded an honorary degree of Doctor of Human Letters by the Hebrew Union College – Jewish Institute of Religion [9] Seidman was a keynote address speaker the United Nations Global Compact in 2015. [10]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
5. I suggest creating a new subtopic under the “Best-Selling Author” section called ‘Columnist’ and including the following:
Seidman is a columnist for DealBook in the New York Times; the digital Wall Street Journal [11], Forbes [12], and The Huffington Post. [13]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
6. I suggest changes to the ‘Legal Battle’ subtopic under the section 'Best-Selling author'. This is a correction that I believe would provide further context around Seidman's book and make the meaning of the paragraph easier to follow. I suggest modifying the second sentence of the first paragraph to read:
The first sentence of his book is: “this is a HOW book, not a how-to book,” and Seidman uses the tag line “how matters” when providing his insight into success in business [14]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
7. I suggest a change to the third paragraph of the ‘Legal Battle’ subtopic under the ‘Best-selling author’ without this context, the lawsuit can’t be fully understood:
In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, New York City based Droga5, for allegedly violating his trademarks of the word ‘how’. In relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere. [15]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
9. I propose adding a section titled External “Links” to the bottom and linking the following sites to help readers better understand the article LRN [16]
HOW is the Answer [17] The HOW Column - Forbes [18]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
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Moved edit request by User:BC1278 to the article's talk page. VB00 ( talk) 16:40, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. The reviewer would like to request the editor with a COI attempt to discuss with editors engaged in the subject-area first. |
Hi,
I have a number of improvements, updates and corrections recommended for this article, which I'd like to try to bring up from its current stub class to a C or even B. Given the range of sourcing (academic, books, journalism) and diversity of the bio across business, philosophy and law, an improved article should be an achievable goal.
I am a frequent Wikipedia editor but I have a paid consulting relationship with the subject of this article, so I wish to fully comply with WP: COI requiring this disclosure and independent review and approval of all suggested edits. FYI, this article was created by an editor unrelated to Seidman, who read about him in a front page article on the New York Times. He contacted Seidman to ask for a photo to accompany the article.
I am listing the suggestions below, individually, which I think make progress toward more encyclopedic use of language and accuracy. Since the suggestions are extensive, I also created an update draft for the article at: /info/en/?search=User:BC1278/DovSeidman#LRN
Proposed edit
|
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Lead -add "and the author of How" to the lead. This is probably why he's best known and there's now a Wikipedia article about "How" to link to. Education -delete "mere" to characterize "970", his score on the SATs. "Mere" isn't NPOV. Career -change wording of first sentence so it does not state all these jobs occurred after law school, which the source does not say (and isn't true. Some were during law school).
-moved the sentence about the RAND corp. directorship from here to "Awards and Honors" section. It's out of sequence here by decades. LRN I'd like to suggest adding some additional statements from major articles about Seidman. He was able to pre-sell a $500,000 contract to MCI based on the idea. [2] He raised $2 million from 42 investors to launch the company. [3]
Suggest including the following sentence because it shows the evolution of Seidman's thinking over the next 20 years, the related evolution of LRN, and because it was the subject of an article in a major business periodical:
Suggest re-orienting the language in the following sentence toward Seidman himself, as per the source (a column in the NY Times by Seidman):
Best selling author Suggest adding this sentence which encapsulates the subject matter of the book:
Columnist Suggest adding summary of article from Harvard Business Review:
Legal battle This section can be tightened up and also need a very important clarification. The first sentence strikes me as having a NPOV problem, as "catchy phrase" is an characterization that seems to somewhat trivialize the "How" concepts. In any case, the sentence doesn't add any information and I think it can safely be cut.
Suggest cutting... "founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant" as off topic and superfluous. Most importantly, please add this sentence, immediately following "how it is made makes all the difference in the world" to clarify what the dispute is about. Support for the sentence is in the same source:
Awards and honors Suggest adding keynote address before the NFL Owners Seidman was selected as the keynote speaker before the NFL owners in 2014, advocating that the NFL create a culture of high expectations, where tolerance and respect are the norm. [8] Suggest adding address at Fortune Time Conference in Vatican City attended by the Pope: Seidman addressed the Fortune-Time Global Forum at Vatican City about the moral imperative of global leadership. [9] -- |
References
![]() | Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. Please see the reply quote box below for additional information about your request. |
I have a WP: COI as a paid consultant to LRN.
Could you consider the following changes:
1) Legal Battle section. Last paragraph refers to Seidman as Dov. Wikipedia style is to not refer to subjects by their first name.
2) Lead. Suggest adding to the second sentence: "and the author of, How (book)." This is why he's best known. There is a separate article about the book that explains its significance; hyper-link herein.
3) Education section. In sentence four, suggest deleting "mere" to characterize "970", his score on the SATs. "Mere" isn't NPOV.
BC1278 ( talk) 16:15, 21 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278
Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request. Also note areas where additional clarification was requested. When this is ready to be provided to the reviewer, please change the edit request template to read from ans=yes to ans=no. Thank you!
.
spintendo
18:21, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Legal Battle section. Last paragraph refers to Seidman as Dov. Wikipedia style is to not refer to subjects by their first name.
Approved.
___________
Lead. Suggest adding to the second sentence: "and the author of, How (book). This is why he's best known. There is a separate article about the book that explains its significance; hyper-link herein.
Approved.
___________
Education section. In sentence four, suggest deleting "mere" to characterize "970", his score on the SATs. "Mere" isn't NPOV.
Approved. [note 1]
___________
- ^ The information in this part of the proposal was converted to a partial quote. The intent of the information being conveyed in this section was that the score of 970 received by the subject was a poor quality score, in his words, "Pathetic." Rather than repeating the use of that word however, the portion of the quotation where the subject claims that the score affected their chances at University was inserted as a partial quote instead, in order to more appropriately convey the intent and spirit of the speaker of the quote. That intent being, that his score of 970 was not good. The way the sentence was structured before this change, coupled with a reader's unfamiliarity with the scoring system of an SAT, might lead to the assignment of attributes for a score of 970 which are counterfactual.
3. I just checked the source and the reference for the SAT score is the same as the source at end of the paragraph, which has no intervening citations.
[1]
4. Here are a few reliable sources that show Seidman is known as the author of How. I could provide many others. [2]("The author, Dov Seidman, is in the business of helping companies create more ethical cultures. He has distilled that business to a single three-letter word: how. President Bill Clinton wrote the foreword to his book, “How: Why How We Do Anything Means Everything.” (“This is a HOW book, not a how-to book,” it begins.)"), [3]("Dov Seidman, the author of the book “How” whose company LRN advises C.E.O.’s on leadership, has long argued that “nothing inspires people more than the truth.”), [4] ("In past years, the keynote address for the NFL meetings has been delivered by Bill Clinton and Condeleezza Rice. This year, Goodell chose Dov Seidman, author of How: Why HOW We Do Anything Means Everything.")
References
Done .
spintendo
22:13, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
I have a WP:COI as a paid consultant to Dov Seidman.
I am working on researching the missing citations. I didn't create this article.
1) Career Section.
Replacement text: "Seidman's early career included stints at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, Steptoe & Johnson, Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees."
Rationale: The first two sentences don't reflect what the sources says. The source only says Seidman's legal experience includes work at various law firms. It does not specify these were after law school. (In fact, I know from asking the subject that most occurred during law school, though that's not sourced, so can't be included.)
2) Career Section:
Text to remove: "Seidman was a member of the RAND Institute for Civil Justice Board of Overseers." This is a non-profit board, not part of his career.
3) Text to Add: In Section "LRN", new paragraph three:
Rationale: Right now, the LRN section doesn't reflect what he's been doing with his career at LRN the past 15 years.
4) Text to add in "LRN" sub-section
In the wake of ethical issues affecting the NFL, Seidman was hired by the NFL commissioner to speak to its owners and head coaches in 2014, advocating that the NFL should create a culture where tolerance and respect were normal expectation. [2]
Seidman was also invited to Vatican City to speak about the moral imperative of global leadership. [3]
5) Text to remove: Legal Battle section. The follow text is unsourced but also not needed to understand the legal battle. It strays from the case and the BLP.
Chobani, the yogurt company founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant began an ad campaign in 2014 centered on the phrase "how matters," emphasizing that there are many types and brands of yogurt but that how it is made makes all the difference in the world.[citation needed]
6) Text to remove:
"...adding that the company was no longer working with Droga5."
Rationale: Seem extraneous to a BLP or the lawsuit.
7) Text to add: Legal battle section:
In March 2016, Seidman filed an additional lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How. According to the complaint, WME acquired 49 percent of Chobani's ad agency, Droga5, in 2013, and later actively encouraged Droga5 to use Seidman's trademarked intellectual property. [4]
Rationale: without the second lawsuit explained, the settlement in the WME doesn't make sense. That said, I am searching for the citation needed that this lawsuit was indeed settled. The source for the next sentence does not mention WME being settled, but links to a press release that discusses the settlement. I don't think that's good enough but we could add it for now. I am working on finding a non-primary source.
Many thanks!
BC1278 ( talk) 23:17, 27 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278
References
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was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request. Also note areas where additional clarification was requested and/or changes were required before implementation could occur. When this is ready to be provided to the reviewer, kindly open a new edit request. Thank you! .
spintendo
04:42, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
Seidman's early career included stints at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, Steptoe & Johnson, Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
Unable to implement. [note 1]
___________
Seidman was a member of the RAND Institute for Civil Justice Board of Overseers.
Approved. [note 2]
___________
Seidman eventually shifted the company direction toward ethics and regulatory compliance, as well as education and consulting in corporate culture, corporate governance and leadership.
Unable to implement. [note 3]
___________
He positioned LRN to reflect the argument in his book, How (book), that the most sustainable businesses are also the most moral.
Not approved. [note 4]
___________
In the wake of ethical issues affecting theNFL, Seidman was hired by the NFL commissioner to speak to its owners and head coaches in 2014, advocating that the NFL should create a culture where tolerance and respect were normal expectation.
Approved.
___________
Seidman was also invited to Vatican City to speak about the moral imperative of global leadership.
Unable to implement. [note 5]
___________
Text to remove: Legal Battle section. The follow text is unsourced but also not needed to understand the legal battle. It strays from the case and the BLP. Chobani, the yogurt company founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant began an ad campaign in 2014 centered on the phrase "how matters," emphasizing that there are many types and brands of yogurt but that how it is made makes all the difference in the world.[citation needed]
? Clarification needed. [note 6]
___________
Text to remove: "...adding that the company was no longer working with Droga5." Rationale: Seem extraneous to a BLP or the lawsuit.
Approved. [note 7]
___________
Text to add: Legal battle section: In March 2016, Seidman filed an additional lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How. According to the complaint, WME acquired 49 percent of Chobani's ad agency, Droga5, in 2013, and later actively encouraged Droga5 to use Seidman's trademarked intellectual property.
Not approved. [note 8]
___________
- ^ This portion of your request could not be implemented because the claims are missing sourced references. Please provide references for these particular claims to be inserted into the article.
- ^ This text was removed as being insufficiently paraphrased from the source material.
- ^ This portion of your request could not be implemented because the sentence contains a partial reference tag which is unconnected to a full reference citation. Please provide the full reference tag which accompanies this source for the claim to be placed into the article.
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- ^ In the paragraph where this text exists, the preceding sentence to the one you've asked to be deleted is placed in quotations. However, the sentence beginning with "Adding that the company.." is not placed in quotations — thus it was removed for being insufficiently paraphrased from the source material.
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@ Spintendo:
Thanks again for helping on this. Here is some of the missing info and clarifications requested by you.
1. In Careers, this is the exact quote from the Bloomberg source:
"Mr. Seidman's legal experience includes work at O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, and Steptoe & Johnson, as well as for the Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees."
The editor who wrote this must have presumed incorrectly that legal experience can only be gained after law school, rather than also including summer associate jobs during law school, plus other externships during school.
Proposed delete:
"Upon graduating law school in 1992, Seidman first went to work at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers. He then spent time at different firms, including Arnold & Porter and Steptoe & Johnson. He also served in the Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees." [1]
I found another source for pre-LRN that simplifies the matter, allowing us to delete the entire list of short-term jobs. The source makes clear the sequence of the one job after law school, followed by the founding of LRN. Proposed new text:
"After law school, Seidman joined the law firm O'Melveny & Myers and left in December 1992 to raise money for a company that would become LRN. [2] "
2. Proposed new text in LRN: "Seidman eventually shifted the company direction toward ethics and regulatory compliance, [3] [2] as well as education and consulting in corporate culture, corporate governance and leadership." [4]
Note: I could not find an online copy of the Fortune story, from 2002, cited above. But I have a PDF of it and I think it would be available in a commercial periodical database. I could also email it or paste in the full text here. I added a tier-two source that covers the same ground and it is online. I've placed it as s second citation.
3. Text to insert.
"Seidman spoke about the moral imperative of global leadership at a Fortune Magazine conference for 100 CEOs held in Vatican City. [5]
Note: I replaced the video citation with an article citation.
4. Proposed text to delete: Legal battle section.
Chobani, the yogurt company founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant began an ad campaign in 2014 centered on the phrase "how matters," emphasizing that there are many types and brands of yogurt but that how it is made makes all the difference in the world. citation needed
In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, New York City based Droga5, for allegedly violating his trademarks of the word "how" in relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere. [6] Both Chobani and Droga5 rebuffed the suit by claiming they had never even heard of Seidman and that the terms in question are too broad to reasonably consider as trademarked. [7]
Proposed replacement text to add:
In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, Droga5, for allegedly violating his trademarks of the word "how" in relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere [8] after Chobani ran a 2014 advertising campaign around the theme ""How Matters." [9] Both Chobani and Droga5 rebuffed the suit by claiming they had never even heard of Seidman and that the terms in question are too broad to reasonably consider as trademarked. [7]
5. Proposed text to add: in Legal section after "....nothing to do with the pending litigation."
In March 2016, Seidman and LRN filed an additional lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How. The complaint alleges that in 2013 WME acquired 49 percent of Chobani's ad agency, Droga5. It further alleges that WME "actively encouraged" Droga5 to use Seidman's intellectual property related to How. [10]
Many thanks!
- BC1278 ( talk) 20:39, 28 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278
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The numbers below correspond to the numbers from your request.
Additionally, the Jewish Journal source was deprecated. That source covered 4 reference notes. In each instance the information was either retained or removed:
. spintendo 01:24, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
@ Spintendo: Thanks for the edits. I understand your point about how the early company description and even the later transformation are written so they are too much in tone as LRN promotion. But there are good articles that describes how he came up with the idea for the original LRN, raised the money himself, and then eventually had the ideas to change the company direction, which changed his career. I have tried to write it so it is more about him, and not an RN promo,but still lets us cover the major event of his career for past 30 years. This is the paragraph about what he's been up to for most of his career, other than writing the book and columns and suing people! How's this?
Insert Text in Career Section as new second paragraph:
Seidman came up with the idea for LRN after he was assigned the task of researching case law for O'Melveny & Meyers clients. Seidman said it didn't make sense that an inexperienced lawyer like him would spend days doing research when an expert could answer the relevant questions in minutes. So he pitched the general counsel at MCI on the idea of a network of legal experts who would work more cost-effectively for the company. He received a letter pledging a $500,000 contract. [1] With that letter in hand as proof of concept, [1] he raised $2 million from 45 different people. [2] After several years, Seidman decided that instead of just "putting out fires" with legal research, he could "fireproof" companies by offering them internet tools to educate employees about legal and business ethics. [3] Seidman eventually applied his training as a moral philosopher to his business, becoming an advisor on ethical behavior to Fortune 500 companies, which became the foundation for his 2007 book, How. [4] - BC1278 ( talk) 18:22, 31 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278
References
Question: Was the lawsuit filed against Chobani and WME filed as Mr. Seidman vs. those entities? Or were they filed in the name of LRN? Because, like the information in this proposal, if it deals with LRN, then that is where the information should reside. I understand that Mr. Seidman's identity is a key part of his brand, but if the lawsuit involves the company, I don't see why those lawsuits are mentioned here with anything more than a sentence. .
spintendo
19:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Edit request above, in this sub-section, is a separate issue.
"Seidman eventually applied his training as a moral philosopher to his business"if by his business it is referring to LRN, then this information would be better placed in the LRN article.
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
One again, thank you for taking the time to consider these requests!
Preamble: I'm struggling a bit here to have a brief synopsis of his 30-year career at LRN, without stepping into the LRN article. I've worked on other company founder articles before and usually there's a little wiggle room for overlap with the company article. A company description and a short founding story are commmon if you look at say, Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Evan Ryan, Travis Kalanick. These all have a small bit of overlap with the articles about the companies they founded because otherwise, the bios would be incomplete as stand-alone articles. But too much overlap is bad, I know.
How about this:
1. In Career, sentence one, insert these underlined words at the end of "After law school, Seidman joined the law firm O'Melveny & Myers and left in December 1992 to launch LRN, originally a legal research company, which evolved into an education and consulting company for corporate ethics, regulatory compliance and corporate governance. [1] [2]
2. Insert new sentence two in Career Section:
" American Lawyer magazine featured Seidman in a 1995 feature story called "Should You be Afraid of This Man?" because of concerns in the legal industry that with his company, which was not a law firm, he would undercut law firms by charging substantially less for legal research. [3]
Comment about the proposed sentence above: this idea that legal research should not be done fresh each time for each client, but instead could be done by a central bank of experts (sometimes just re-using the same research) was a big enough idea at the time that American Lawyer magazine (a trade bible for lawyers) put him on the cover with the headline, "Should You Be Afraid of This Man?" [3] Seidman invented the idea of legal outsourcing to non-law firms - which is a multi-billion dollar industry today. The model was entirely novel when he started LRN.
3. Insert new sentence three in Career section (after proposed new American Lawyer sentence):
"After several years, Seidman decided that instead of just addressing urgent problems with legal research, he could protect companies for the long term by offering them internet tools to educate employees about legal and business ethics. [4]"
Comment: I have removed the slang language, as requested. I think that's all that was requested to fix this.
4. Comment: No need for me to repeat the founding story again. But I'd ask you look at the links above to the BLPs of these prominent entrepreneurs, or any other you can think of. I think you'll find they mostly include the founding story and at least a description of the company services. In which case, some condensed version of sentences 1 to 5 from the previous request might be included. I can shorten it but am not going to bother unless you think it's a good idea.
5. Comment: As per the comment about the relevance of the legal case, do you want me to propose maybe a two or three sentence version of the legal battle? Something shorter? It's arguably WP:Undue at that length because it takes up so much space compared to say, LRN, the company's he's been running the past 30 years. (On the other hand, the legal matter was on the front page of the New York Times and covered widely -it's why some editor unconnected to Seidman originally created the article.)
Thanks BC1278 ( talk) 03:51, 1 June 2018 (UTC)BC1278
References
Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request.
spintendo
05:17, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
In Career, sentence one, insert these underlined words at the end of "After law school, Seidman joined the law firm O'Melveny & Myers and left in December 1992 to launch LRN, originally a legal research company, which evolved into an education and consulting company for corporate ethics, regulatory compliance and corporate governance.
Not approved. [note 1]
___________
Insert new sentence two in Career Section: "American Lawyer magazine featured Seidman in a 1995 feature story called "Should You be Afraid of This Man?" because of concerns in the legal industry that with his company, which was not a law firm, he would undercut law firms by charging substantially less for legal research.
Not approved. [note 2]
___________
Insert new sentence three in Career section (after proposed new American Lawyer sentence): "After several years, Seidman decided that instead of just addressing urgent problems with legal research, he could protect companies for the long term by offering them internet tools to educate employees about legal and business ethics.
Not approved. [note 3]
___________
As per the comment about the relevance of the legal case, do you want me to propose maybe a two or three sentence version of the legal battle? Something shorter?
No action taken. [note 4]
___________
- ^ This information concerns LRN. The WikiLink to LRN serves as a gateway for the reader to enhance their understanding of topics related to LRN, such as its evolution as a company. The argument used here for inclusion of this information is similar to WP:OSE, in that these short founding stories are common to other articles like Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Evan Ryan, and Travis Kalanick.
- ^ The subject mentioned in this sentence is the legal profession (e.g., "...because of concerns in the legal industry..."), and as such, would be germane as a topic for that article, rather than this one.
- ^ The inclusion of this part of the edit request originates from the desire to include the subject's beliefs on issues facing the legal industry, as well as the overall need for existing companies to avail themselves of decision making which is founded upon precepts centered around ethical behaviors and relationships. The belief which spurs this section of the edit request is that the article does not adequately express the subject's ideas or does not adequately identify them as originating from the subject of the article. The problem with that belief is that it overlooks the already existing examples where these ideas are expressed, as well as the accompanying qualifications which recount the views as originating from Mr. Seidman. These examples include (a) the Career section, where the subject's testimony offered to the US Sentencing Commission is recounted as the subject discussing the development of "ethical cultures instead of ‘check-the-box’, compliance-only approaches"; (b) the description of the subject being hired by the NFL, which is accompanied by the subject and the NFL's reasons for that hiring, which was to "create a culture where tolerance and respect were normal expectations."; (c) the Author section which delineates the main ideas of the book written by the subject exploring "topics such as how trust and reputation are critical to prospering in business and how modifying ones actions and decisions can make the road to success easier to navigate"; (d) the Awards section which mentions the subject as receiving an award based upon the subject's superior "analysis of ethical issues"; and (e) the subject's visit to the Holy See for a discussion centered upon issues surrounding "global leadership". With all of these examples, the article seems to accomplish a sufficient job of communicating the basic thoughts and ideas which motivate the subject and his noble work, ideas which are ultimately expressed across three separate Wikipedia articles: Dov Seidman, How (book) and LRN (company). In my view, additional descriptions of these ideas only serve to skirt the boundaries of WP:SOAPBOX and WP:NOTOPINION, and should therefore be discouraged.
- ^ The number of sentences in the article which cover the subject's two lawsuits are 7 sentences, or 19.44% of the article's total number.
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Just following up to make sure that there wasn't anything that needed to be done with the WMA lawsuit info? I hadn't heard back. Please advise, thnx. spintendo 19:01, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
1. @ DGG: and @ Spintendo: As these two editors have suggested that the Legal Dispute suggestion might take up too much of the article by weight, despite all the press about it, I'd suggest the following:
Legal dispute
In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, Droga5, for violating his trademarks of the word "how" in relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere [1] after Chobani ran a 2014 advertising campaign around the theme "How Matters." [2] [3] In 2017, Seidman settled the lawsuit out of court after Chobani withdrew its application for a trademark for "How Matters." [4]
2. Re the template above the article, it's now resolved, and I'd request it be removed. If Legal Dispute is shortened, there is now a citation for every statement in the article. Even if it's not changed, there's only one missing citation. And lots of specific categories have been added.
3. In the lead, please remove "attorney." The source does not support that Seidman is a practicing attorney and this is also not something Seidman is known for.
Thanks BC1278 ( talk) 18:48, 13 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278
References
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"I'd suggest the following.."). The addition of text on a subject identical to the subject of Chobani served to imply that this text was to be removed and replaced in circumstances where the COI editor has forgotten to make a specific verbatim request to remove it (i.e., "Please delete the entire paragraph starting with...", for example.)
"I'd suggest the following.."does not explicitly suggest anything to be removed from the 'Legal disputes' section beyond what was replaced regarding Chobani.
"If Legal Dispute is shortened, there is now a citation for every statement in the article."That section cannot be shortened any further because you haven't specified how it should be shortened by describing the verbatim text to be removed.
"I'd suggest the following.."says nothing about the William Morris lawsuits. What shall be done with this paragraph (on which the remaining maint. template hinges)? May I remove it in its entirety? Please advise.
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi,
Since the article is now fully sourced, can someone remove the missing citation flag box from the top of the article? Many thanks! BC1278 ( talk) 18:48, 27 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278
I've highlighted in the Awards section where issues still remain. Regards, spintendo 11:39, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Spintendo: Sorry I missed that. I have now added the citations. Thanks! BC1278 ( talk) 19:12, 30 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278
spintendo 23:33, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Request that in the lead paragraph, the description of the company that the subject of the article founded and leads, LRN, is edited to be slightly longer because there is no discussion of what he does at the company in the Career section.
Remove from second sentence of paragraph one: "... an ethics and compliance management firm."
Insert instead: "....which provides advising and education on ethics, regulatory compliance, and corporate culture to other organizations. [1]
BC1278 ( talk) 16:37, 15 August 2018 (UTC)BC1278
The source initially describes LRN as an "ethics and compliance business"
. Any changes made in the approach to ethics and compliance, and how to achieve those two things notwithstanding, these still remain its core purposes, if I'm not mistaken.
spintendo
19:20, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
References
WikiLinked context provided Knowing the article's fondness for WikiLinks, these 2 newer ones in the lead section covering ethics and compliance ought to serve our needs. Let me know if they don't work out.
spintendo
20:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I would like to suggest several changes that I think would improve the article. Since I have a WP:COI, I am posting my suggestions on the Talk page for others to review and edit. I have tried to adhere to all Wikipedia policies on neutrality WP:NPOV, non-promotional material, reliable sourcing, etc. and if I haven’t managed that below, I’d very much like to discuss your ideas for addressing any potential issues. In general, I believe these changes improve the page because they provide more context around the subject therefore making the entry better for the reader. These changes also provide a corrections to factual mistakes which is integral to the success of the Wikipedia project.
1.- I suggest adding the following to the last sentence of the section ‘Early Life’ to give more context around Seidman’s dyslexia:
Seidman’s dyslexia is the subject of a case study in the book The Dyslexic Advantage [1]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
2. I recommend adding the following to the LRN section of the page to provide more context around Seidman’s direction of the company’s activities: Seidman testified before the U.S. Sentencing Commission about the need for companies to develop ethical cultures instead of ‘check-the-box’, compliance-only approaches, and his testimony helped shaped the amendments to the Federal Sentencing Guidelines [2]
LRN has a flat reporting structure which emphasizes "collaborative management." A New York Times column described the company as moving toward self-governance with staff reporting to the company mission instead of having formal titles. [3] Lastly, given that the source is more than a decade old I believe the article should omit the last sentence in this section. As a privately held company LRN does not disclose it's revenue, so it might be confusing to the reader.
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
3. I suggest the following changes to the first paragraph of the "Best-Selling Author" section to provide more context around the influence of Dov and his book:
Seidman wrote a book entitled: How: Why HOW We Do Anything Means Everything... in Business (and in Life), published in September 2007. In 2011, How: Why HOW We Do Anything Means Everything an expanded edition was published. The expanded edition contains a foreword written by former United States President Bill Clinton. Divided into four parts, it covers the topics such as how trust and reputation are critical to prospering in business and how modifying ones actions and decisions can make the road to success easier to navigate. The second edition of his book became a New York Times Best Seller. [4]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
4. I suggest adding a section called “Awards and Honors” above “Personal Life” to include the following: Seidman gave the commencement address at UCLA college of Letters and Science in 2002. [5] He was given the Jurisprudence Award by the Anti-Defamation League in 2003. [6] In 2008, the Economic Times named Seidman one of the Top 60 Global Thinkers of the Last Decade. [7] Since 2008, Seidman and LRN have been the corporate partner of The Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity’s Prize in Ethics Essay Contest, an annual competition for students to analyze ethical issues. [8]
In 2009, Seidman was awarded an honorary degree of Doctor of Human Letters by the Hebrew Union College – Jewish Institute of Religion [9] Seidman was a keynote address speaker the United Nations Global Compact in 2015. [10]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
5. I suggest creating a new subtopic under the “Best-Selling Author” section called ‘Columnist’ and including the following:
Seidman is a columnist for DealBook in the New York Times; the digital Wall Street Journal [11], Forbes [12], and The Huffington Post. [13]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
6. I suggest changes to the ‘Legal Battle’ subtopic under the section 'Best-Selling author'. This is a correction that I believe would provide further context around Seidman's book and make the meaning of the paragraph easier to follow. I suggest modifying the second sentence of the first paragraph to read:
The first sentence of his book is: “this is a HOW book, not a how-to book,” and Seidman uses the tag line “how matters” when providing his insight into success in business [14]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
7. I suggest a change to the third paragraph of the ‘Legal Battle’ subtopic under the ‘Best-selling author’ without this context, the lawsuit can’t be fully understood:
In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, New York City based Droga5, for allegedly violating his trademarks of the word ‘how’. In relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere. [15]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
9. I propose adding a section titled External “Links” to the bottom and linking the following sites to help readers better understand the article LRN [16]
HOW is the Answer [17] The HOW Column - Forbes [18]
![]() | An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes. |
Sfreidlin ( talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin
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Moved edit request by User:BC1278 to the article's talk page. VB00 ( talk) 16:40, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. The reviewer would like to request the editor with a COI attempt to discuss with editors engaged in the subject-area first. |
Hi,
I have a number of improvements, updates and corrections recommended for this article, which I'd like to try to bring up from its current stub class to a C or even B. Given the range of sourcing (academic, books, journalism) and diversity of the bio across business, philosophy and law, an improved article should be an achievable goal.
I am a frequent Wikipedia editor but I have a paid consulting relationship with the subject of this article, so I wish to fully comply with WP: COI requiring this disclosure and independent review and approval of all suggested edits. FYI, this article was created by an editor unrelated to Seidman, who read about him in a front page article on the New York Times. He contacted Seidman to ask for a photo to accompany the article.
I am listing the suggestions below, individually, which I think make progress toward more encyclopedic use of language and accuracy. Since the suggestions are extensive, I also created an update draft for the article at: /info/en/?search=User:BC1278/DovSeidman#LRN
Proposed edit
|
---|
Lead -add "and the author of How" to the lead. This is probably why he's best known and there's now a Wikipedia article about "How" to link to. Education -delete "mere" to characterize "970", his score on the SATs. "Mere" isn't NPOV. Career -change wording of first sentence so it does not state all these jobs occurred after law school, which the source does not say (and isn't true. Some were during law school).
-moved the sentence about the RAND corp. directorship from here to "Awards and Honors" section. It's out of sequence here by decades. LRN I'd like to suggest adding some additional statements from major articles about Seidman. He was able to pre-sell a $500,000 contract to MCI based on the idea. [2] He raised $2 million from 42 investors to launch the company. [3]
Suggest including the following sentence because it shows the evolution of Seidman's thinking over the next 20 years, the related evolution of LRN, and because it was the subject of an article in a major business periodical:
Suggest re-orienting the language in the following sentence toward Seidman himself, as per the source (a column in the NY Times by Seidman):
Best selling author Suggest adding this sentence which encapsulates the subject matter of the book:
Columnist Suggest adding summary of article from Harvard Business Review:
Legal battle This section can be tightened up and also need a very important clarification. The first sentence strikes me as having a NPOV problem, as "catchy phrase" is an characterization that seems to somewhat trivialize the "How" concepts. In any case, the sentence doesn't add any information and I think it can safely be cut.
Suggest cutting... "founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant" as off topic and superfluous. Most importantly, please add this sentence, immediately following "how it is made makes all the difference in the world" to clarify what the dispute is about. Support for the sentence is in the same source:
Awards and honors Suggest adding keynote address before the NFL Owners Seidman was selected as the keynote speaker before the NFL owners in 2014, advocating that the NFL create a culture of high expectations, where tolerance and respect are the norm. [8] Suggest adding address at Fortune Time Conference in Vatican City attended by the Pope: Seidman addressed the Fortune-Time Global Forum at Vatican City about the moral imperative of global leadership. [9] -- |
References
![]() | Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. Please see the reply quote box below for additional information about your request. |
I have a WP: COI as a paid consultant to LRN.
Could you consider the following changes:
1) Legal Battle section. Last paragraph refers to Seidman as Dov. Wikipedia style is to not refer to subjects by their first name.
2) Lead. Suggest adding to the second sentence: "and the author of, How (book)." This is why he's best known. There is a separate article about the book that explains its significance; hyper-link herein.
3) Education section. In sentence four, suggest deleting "mere" to characterize "970", his score on the SATs. "Mere" isn't NPOV.
BC1278 ( talk) 16:15, 21 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278
Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request. Also note areas where additional clarification was requested. When this is ready to be provided to the reviewer, please change the edit request template to read from ans=yes to ans=no. Thank you!
.
spintendo
18:21, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Legal Battle section. Last paragraph refers to Seidman as Dov. Wikipedia style is to not refer to subjects by their first name.
Approved.
___________
Lead. Suggest adding to the second sentence: "and the author of, How (book). This is why he's best known. There is a separate article about the book that explains its significance; hyper-link herein.
Approved.
___________
Education section. In sentence four, suggest deleting "mere" to characterize "970", his score on the SATs. "Mere" isn't NPOV.
Approved. [note 1]
___________
- ^ The information in this part of the proposal was converted to a partial quote. The intent of the information being conveyed in this section was that the score of 970 received by the subject was a poor quality score, in his words, "Pathetic." Rather than repeating the use of that word however, the portion of the quotation where the subject claims that the score affected their chances at University was inserted as a partial quote instead, in order to more appropriately convey the intent and spirit of the speaker of the quote. That intent being, that his score of 970 was not good. The way the sentence was structured before this change, coupled with a reader's unfamiliarity with the scoring system of an SAT, might lead to the assignment of attributes for a score of 970 which are counterfactual.
3. I just checked the source and the reference for the SAT score is the same as the source at end of the paragraph, which has no intervening citations.
[1]
4. Here are a few reliable sources that show Seidman is known as the author of How. I could provide many others. [2]("The author, Dov Seidman, is in the business of helping companies create more ethical cultures. He has distilled that business to a single three-letter word: how. President Bill Clinton wrote the foreword to his book, “How: Why How We Do Anything Means Everything.” (“This is a HOW book, not a how-to book,” it begins.)"), [3]("Dov Seidman, the author of the book “How” whose company LRN advises C.E.O.’s on leadership, has long argued that “nothing inspires people more than the truth.”), [4] ("In past years, the keynote address for the NFL meetings has been delivered by Bill Clinton and Condeleezza Rice. This year, Goodell chose Dov Seidman, author of How: Why HOW We Do Anything Means Everything.")
References
Done .
spintendo
22:13, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
I have a WP:COI as a paid consultant to Dov Seidman.
I am working on researching the missing citations. I didn't create this article.
1) Career Section.
Replacement text: "Seidman's early career included stints at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, Steptoe & Johnson, Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees."
Rationale: The first two sentences don't reflect what the sources says. The source only says Seidman's legal experience includes work at various law firms. It does not specify these were after law school. (In fact, I know from asking the subject that most occurred during law school, though that's not sourced, so can't be included.)
2) Career Section:
Text to remove: "Seidman was a member of the RAND Institute for Civil Justice Board of Overseers." This is a non-profit board, not part of his career.
3) Text to Add: In Section "LRN", new paragraph three:
Rationale: Right now, the LRN section doesn't reflect what he's been doing with his career at LRN the past 15 years.
4) Text to add in "LRN" sub-section
In the wake of ethical issues affecting the NFL, Seidman was hired by the NFL commissioner to speak to its owners and head coaches in 2014, advocating that the NFL should create a culture where tolerance and respect were normal expectation. [2]
Seidman was also invited to Vatican City to speak about the moral imperative of global leadership. [3]
5) Text to remove: Legal Battle section. The follow text is unsourced but also not needed to understand the legal battle. It strays from the case and the BLP.
Chobani, the yogurt company founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant began an ad campaign in 2014 centered on the phrase "how matters," emphasizing that there are many types and brands of yogurt but that how it is made makes all the difference in the world.[citation needed]
6) Text to remove:
"...adding that the company was no longer working with Droga5."
Rationale: Seem extraneous to a BLP or the lawsuit.
7) Text to add: Legal battle section:
In March 2016, Seidman filed an additional lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How. According to the complaint, WME acquired 49 percent of Chobani's ad agency, Droga5, in 2013, and later actively encouraged Droga5 to use Seidman's trademarked intellectual property. [4]
Rationale: without the second lawsuit explained, the settlement in the WME doesn't make sense. That said, I am searching for the citation needed that this lawsuit was indeed settled. The source for the next sentence does not mention WME being settled, but links to a press release that discusses the settlement. I don't think that's good enough but we could add it for now. I am working on finding a non-primary source.
Many thanks!
BC1278 ( talk) 23:17, 27 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278
References
strategy
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request. Also note areas where additional clarification was requested and/or changes were required before implementation could occur. When this is ready to be provided to the reviewer, kindly open a new edit request. Thank you! .
spintendo
04:42, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
Seidman's early career included stints at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, Steptoe & Johnson, Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
Unable to implement. [note 1]
___________
Seidman was a member of the RAND Institute for Civil Justice Board of Overseers.
Approved. [note 2]
___________
Seidman eventually shifted the company direction toward ethics and regulatory compliance, as well as education and consulting in corporate culture, corporate governance and leadership.
Unable to implement. [note 3]
___________
He positioned LRN to reflect the argument in his book, How (book), that the most sustainable businesses are also the most moral.
Not approved. [note 4]
___________
In the wake of ethical issues affecting theNFL, Seidman was hired by the NFL commissioner to speak to its owners and head coaches in 2014, advocating that the NFL should create a culture where tolerance and respect were normal expectation.
Approved.
___________
Seidman was also invited to Vatican City to speak about the moral imperative of global leadership.
Unable to implement. [note 5]
___________
Text to remove: Legal Battle section. The follow text is unsourced but also not needed to understand the legal battle. It strays from the case and the BLP. Chobani, the yogurt company founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant began an ad campaign in 2014 centered on the phrase "how matters," emphasizing that there are many types and brands of yogurt but that how it is made makes all the difference in the world.[citation needed]
? Clarification needed. [note 6]
___________
Text to remove: "...adding that the company was no longer working with Droga5." Rationale: Seem extraneous to a BLP or the lawsuit.
Approved. [note 7]
___________
Text to add: Legal battle section: In March 2016, Seidman filed an additional lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How. According to the complaint, WME acquired 49 percent of Chobani's ad agency, Droga5, in 2013, and later actively encouraged Droga5 to use Seidman's trademarked intellectual property.
Not approved. [note 8]
___________
- ^ This portion of your request could not be implemented because the claims are missing sourced references. Please provide references for these particular claims to be inserted into the article.
- ^ This text was removed as being insufficiently paraphrased from the source material.
- ^ This portion of your request could not be implemented because the sentence contains a partial reference tag which is unconnected to a full reference citation. Please provide the full reference tag which accompanies this source for the claim to be placed into the article.
- ^ The specific organizational changes brought forth in these companies may be briefly described, but mentioning them as originating from the subject's book is promotional.
- ^ This portion of your request could not be implemented because the reference given for this source is a video, yet the citation template selected was Cite news. Please use the Cite AV media template and include the time index that the statement is mentioned.
- ^ It is not clear what changes you want made to this section of the text. It strays from the case and the BLP in particular is not understood. Please clarify which text is to be placed into the article and which text is reasoning for the change. The proposed paragraph from your request as it's now written does not delineate this difference.
- ^ In the paragraph where this text exists, the preceding sentence to the one you've asked to be deleted is placed in quotations. However, the sentence beginning with "Adding that the company.." is not placed in quotations — thus it was removed for being insufficiently paraphrased from the source material.
- ^ Portions of this text are insufficiently paraphrased from the source material. This information should either be placed in quotations or re-phrased in your own words.
@ Spintendo:
Thanks again for helping on this. Here is some of the missing info and clarifications requested by you.
1. In Careers, this is the exact quote from the Bloomberg source:
"Mr. Seidman's legal experience includes work at O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, and Steptoe & Johnson, as well as for the Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees."
The editor who wrote this must have presumed incorrectly that legal experience can only be gained after law school, rather than also including summer associate jobs during law school, plus other externships during school.
Proposed delete:
"Upon graduating law school in 1992, Seidman first went to work at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers. He then spent time at different firms, including Arnold & Porter and Steptoe & Johnson. He also served in the Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees." [1]
I found another source for pre-LRN that simplifies the matter, allowing us to delete the entire list of short-term jobs. The source makes clear the sequence of the one job after law school, followed by the founding of LRN. Proposed new text:
"After law school, Seidman joined the law firm O'Melveny & Myers and left in December 1992 to raise money for a company that would become LRN. [2] "
2. Proposed new text in LRN: "Seidman eventually shifted the company direction toward ethics and regulatory compliance, [3] [2] as well as education and consulting in corporate culture, corporate governance and leadership." [4]
Note: I could not find an online copy of the Fortune story, from 2002, cited above. But I have a PDF of it and I think it would be available in a commercial periodical database. I could also email it or paste in the full text here. I added a tier-two source that covers the same ground and it is online. I've placed it as s second citation.
3. Text to insert.
"Seidman spoke about the moral imperative of global leadership at a Fortune Magazine conference for 100 CEOs held in Vatican City. [5]
Note: I replaced the video citation with an article citation.
4. Proposed text to delete: Legal battle section.
Chobani, the yogurt company founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant began an ad campaign in 2014 centered on the phrase "how matters," emphasizing that there are many types and brands of yogurt but that how it is made makes all the difference in the world. citation needed
In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, New York City based Droga5, for allegedly violating his trademarks of the word "how" in relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere. [6] Both Chobani and Droga5 rebuffed the suit by claiming they had never even heard of Seidman and that the terms in question are too broad to reasonably consider as trademarked. [7]
Proposed replacement text to add:
In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, Droga5, for allegedly violating his trademarks of the word "how" in relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere [8] after Chobani ran a 2014 advertising campaign around the theme ""How Matters." [9] Both Chobani and Droga5 rebuffed the suit by claiming they had never even heard of Seidman and that the terms in question are too broad to reasonably consider as trademarked. [7]
5. Proposed text to add: in Legal section after "....nothing to do with the pending litigation."
In March 2016, Seidman and LRN filed an additional lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How. The complaint alleges that in 2013 WME acquired 49 percent of Chobani's ad agency, Droga5. It further alleges that WME "actively encouraged" Droga5 to use Seidman's intellectual property related to How. [10]
Many thanks!
- BC1278 ( talk) 20:39, 28 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278
References
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Partially implemented
The numbers below correspond to the numbers from your request.
Additionally, the Jewish Journal source was deprecated. That source covered 4 reference notes. In each instance the information was either retained or removed:
. spintendo 01:24, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
@ Spintendo: Thanks for the edits. I understand your point about how the early company description and even the later transformation are written so they are too much in tone as LRN promotion. But there are good articles that describes how he came up with the idea for the original LRN, raised the money himself, and then eventually had the ideas to change the company direction, which changed his career. I have tried to write it so it is more about him, and not an RN promo,but still lets us cover the major event of his career for past 30 years. This is the paragraph about what he's been up to for most of his career, other than writing the book and columns and suing people! How's this?
Insert Text in Career Section as new second paragraph:
Seidman came up with the idea for LRN after he was assigned the task of researching case law for O'Melveny & Meyers clients. Seidman said it didn't make sense that an inexperienced lawyer like him would spend days doing research when an expert could answer the relevant questions in minutes. So he pitched the general counsel at MCI on the idea of a network of legal experts who would work more cost-effectively for the company. He received a letter pledging a $500,000 contract. [1] With that letter in hand as proof of concept, [1] he raised $2 million from 45 different people. [2] After several years, Seidman decided that instead of just "putting out fires" with legal research, he could "fireproof" companies by offering them internet tools to educate employees about legal and business ethics. [3] Seidman eventually applied his training as a moral philosopher to his business, becoming an advisor on ethical behavior to Fortune 500 companies, which became the foundation for his 2007 book, How. [4] - BC1278 ( talk) 18:22, 31 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278
References
Question: Was the lawsuit filed against Chobani and WME filed as Mr. Seidman vs. those entities? Or were they filed in the name of LRN? Because, like the information in this proposal, if it deals with LRN, then that is where the information should reside. I understand that Mr. Seidman's identity is a key part of his brand, but if the lawsuit involves the company, I don't see why those lawsuits are mentioned here with anything more than a sentence. .
spintendo
19:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Edit request above, in this sub-section, is a separate issue.
"Seidman eventually applied his training as a moral philosopher to his business"if by his business it is referring to LRN, then this information would be better placed in the LRN article.
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One again, thank you for taking the time to consider these requests!
Preamble: I'm struggling a bit here to have a brief synopsis of his 30-year career at LRN, without stepping into the LRN article. I've worked on other company founder articles before and usually there's a little wiggle room for overlap with the company article. A company description and a short founding story are commmon if you look at say, Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Evan Ryan, Travis Kalanick. These all have a small bit of overlap with the articles about the companies they founded because otherwise, the bios would be incomplete as stand-alone articles. But too much overlap is bad, I know.
How about this:
1. In Career, sentence one, insert these underlined words at the end of "After law school, Seidman joined the law firm O'Melveny & Myers and left in December 1992 to launch LRN, originally a legal research company, which evolved into an education and consulting company for corporate ethics, regulatory compliance and corporate governance. [1] [2]
2. Insert new sentence two in Career Section:
" American Lawyer magazine featured Seidman in a 1995 feature story called "Should You be Afraid of This Man?" because of concerns in the legal industry that with his company, which was not a law firm, he would undercut law firms by charging substantially less for legal research. [3]
Comment about the proposed sentence above: this idea that legal research should not be done fresh each time for each client, but instead could be done by a central bank of experts (sometimes just re-using the same research) was a big enough idea at the time that American Lawyer magazine (a trade bible for lawyers) put him on the cover with the headline, "Should You Be Afraid of This Man?" [3] Seidman invented the idea of legal outsourcing to non-law firms - which is a multi-billion dollar industry today. The model was entirely novel when he started LRN.
3. Insert new sentence three in Career section (after proposed new American Lawyer sentence):
"After several years, Seidman decided that instead of just addressing urgent problems with legal research, he could protect companies for the long term by offering them internet tools to educate employees about legal and business ethics. [4]"
Comment: I have removed the slang language, as requested. I think that's all that was requested to fix this.
4. Comment: No need for me to repeat the founding story again. But I'd ask you look at the links above to the BLPs of these prominent entrepreneurs, or any other you can think of. I think you'll find they mostly include the founding story and at least a description of the company services. In which case, some condensed version of sentences 1 to 5 from the previous request might be included. I can shorten it but am not going to bother unless you think it's a good idea.
5. Comment: As per the comment about the relevance of the legal case, do you want me to propose maybe a two or three sentence version of the legal battle? Something shorter? It's arguably WP:Undue at that length because it takes up so much space compared to say, LRN, the company's he's been running the past 30 years. (On the other hand, the legal matter was on the front page of the New York Times and covered widely -it's why some editor unconnected to Seidman originally created the article.)
Thanks BC1278 ( talk) 03:51, 1 June 2018 (UTC)BC1278
References
Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request.
spintendo
05:17, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
In Career, sentence one, insert these underlined words at the end of "After law school, Seidman joined the law firm O'Melveny & Myers and left in December 1992 to launch LRN, originally a legal research company, which evolved into an education and consulting company for corporate ethics, regulatory compliance and corporate governance.
Not approved. [note 1]
___________
Insert new sentence two in Career Section: "American Lawyer magazine featured Seidman in a 1995 feature story called "Should You be Afraid of This Man?" because of concerns in the legal industry that with his company, which was not a law firm, he would undercut law firms by charging substantially less for legal research.
Not approved. [note 2]
___________
Insert new sentence three in Career section (after proposed new American Lawyer sentence): "After several years, Seidman decided that instead of just addressing urgent problems with legal research, he could protect companies for the long term by offering them internet tools to educate employees about legal and business ethics.
Not approved. [note 3]
___________
As per the comment about the relevance of the legal case, do you want me to propose maybe a two or three sentence version of the legal battle? Something shorter?
No action taken. [note 4]
___________
- ^ This information concerns LRN. The WikiLink to LRN serves as a gateway for the reader to enhance their understanding of topics related to LRN, such as its evolution as a company. The argument used here for inclusion of this information is similar to WP:OSE, in that these short founding stories are common to other articles like Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Evan Ryan, and Travis Kalanick.
- ^ The subject mentioned in this sentence is the legal profession (e.g., "...because of concerns in the legal industry..."), and as such, would be germane as a topic for that article, rather than this one.
- ^ The inclusion of this part of the edit request originates from the desire to include the subject's beliefs on issues facing the legal industry, as well as the overall need for existing companies to avail themselves of decision making which is founded upon precepts centered around ethical behaviors and relationships. The belief which spurs this section of the edit request is that the article does not adequately express the subject's ideas or does not adequately identify them as originating from the subject of the article. The problem with that belief is that it overlooks the already existing examples where these ideas are expressed, as well as the accompanying qualifications which recount the views as originating from Mr. Seidman. These examples include (a) the Career section, where the subject's testimony offered to the US Sentencing Commission is recounted as the subject discussing the development of "ethical cultures instead of ‘check-the-box’, compliance-only approaches"; (b) the description of the subject being hired by the NFL, which is accompanied by the subject and the NFL's reasons for that hiring, which was to "create a culture where tolerance and respect were normal expectations."; (c) the Author section which delineates the main ideas of the book written by the subject exploring "topics such as how trust and reputation are critical to prospering in business and how modifying ones actions and decisions can make the road to success easier to navigate"; (d) the Awards section which mentions the subject as receiving an award based upon the subject's superior "analysis of ethical issues"; and (e) the subject's visit to the Holy See for a discussion centered upon issues surrounding "global leadership". With all of these examples, the article seems to accomplish a sufficient job of communicating the basic thoughts and ideas which motivate the subject and his noble work, ideas which are ultimately expressed across three separate Wikipedia articles: Dov Seidman, How (book) and LRN (company). In my view, additional descriptions of these ideas only serve to skirt the boundaries of WP:SOAPBOX and WP:NOTOPINION, and should therefore be discouraged.
- ^ The number of sentences in the article which cover the subject's two lawsuits are 7 sentences, or 19.44% of the article's total number.
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Just following up to make sure that there wasn't anything that needed to be done with the WMA lawsuit info? I hadn't heard back. Please advise, thnx. spintendo 19:01, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
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1. @ DGG: and @ Spintendo: As these two editors have suggested that the Legal Dispute suggestion might take up too much of the article by weight, despite all the press about it, I'd suggest the following:
Legal dispute
In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, Droga5, for violating his trademarks of the word "how" in relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere [1] after Chobani ran a 2014 advertising campaign around the theme "How Matters." [2] [3] In 2017, Seidman settled the lawsuit out of court after Chobani withdrew its application for a trademark for "How Matters." [4]
2. Re the template above the article, it's now resolved, and I'd request it be removed. If Legal Dispute is shortened, there is now a citation for every statement in the article. Even if it's not changed, there's only one missing citation. And lots of specific categories have been added.
3. In the lead, please remove "attorney." The source does not support that Seidman is a practicing attorney and this is also not something Seidman is known for.
Thanks BC1278 ( talk) 18:48, 13 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278
References
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cite news}}
: CS1 maint: others (
link)
"I'd suggest the following.."). The addition of text on a subject identical to the subject of Chobani served to imply that this text was to be removed and replaced in circumstances where the COI editor has forgotten to make a specific verbatim request to remove it (i.e., "Please delete the entire paragraph starting with...", for example.)
"I'd suggest the following.."does not explicitly suggest anything to be removed from the 'Legal disputes' section beyond what was replaced regarding Chobani.
"If Legal Dispute is shortened, there is now a citation for every statement in the article."That section cannot be shortened any further because you haven't specified how it should be shortened by describing the verbatim text to be removed.
"I'd suggest the following.."says nothing about the William Morris lawsuits. What shall be done with this paragraph (on which the remaining maint. template hinges)? May I remove it in its entirety? Please advise.
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi,
Since the article is now fully sourced, can someone remove the missing citation flag box from the top of the article? Many thanks! BC1278 ( talk) 18:48, 27 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278
I've highlighted in the Awards section where issues still remain. Regards, spintendo 11:39, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Spintendo: Sorry I missed that. I have now added the citations. Thanks! BC1278 ( talk) 19:12, 30 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278
spintendo 23:33, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Request that in the lead paragraph, the description of the company that the subject of the article founded and leads, LRN, is edited to be slightly longer because there is no discussion of what he does at the company in the Career section.
Remove from second sentence of paragraph one: "... an ethics and compliance management firm."
Insert instead: "....which provides advising and education on ethics, regulatory compliance, and corporate culture to other organizations. [1]
BC1278 ( talk) 16:37, 15 August 2018 (UTC)BC1278
The source initially describes LRN as an "ethics and compliance business"
. Any changes made in the approach to ethics and compliance, and how to achieve those two things notwithstanding, these still remain its core purposes, if I'm not mistaken.
spintendo
19:20, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
References
WikiLinked context provided Knowing the article's fondness for WikiLinks, these 2 newer ones in the lead section covering ethics and compliance ought to serve our needs. Let me know if they don't work out.
spintendo
20:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)