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How would you describe the extremely common usage "I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't rain today", where the speaker actually means that he or she would not be surprised if it did rain? It seems to me to be a form of double negative (or at any rate of the addition of an unnecessary negative). Any ideas? -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) ( talk) 14:05, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
I don’t think so. In litotes the two negatives cancel each other out. Here one of them is meant and the other one is redundant. — Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) ( talk) 11:50, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
A double negative is a construction occurring when two forms of grammatical negation are used in the same clause, so as to exclude compound sentences, such as: "I didn't tell her that I've never been to Canada" or "Nobody could foresee that so many guests will be unwell", which clearly do not contain double negatives. — kashmīrī TALK 15:15, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
A double negative is syntax including two forms of grammatical negation that apply to the same referent, resulting in an affirmation of the referent. It goes beyond just clauses and can apply, off the top of my head, to predicate verbs ("That can't not work) and to a ADJP (e.g. "She's not unwell"). -- Kent Dominic·(talk) 15:35, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Sirmylesnagopaleentheda: In informal standard spoken English, a negative verb (without a negative meaning) is sometimes used after expressions of doubt or uncertainty, I wonder whether I oughtn't to go and see a doctor - I'm feeling a bit funny. -- Backinstadiums ( talk) 18:20, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
I sense there is a high degree of confusion. The article is not about cases when a negated verb construct is used to express affirmation; nor about cases where a main clause contains a single negation of a subordinate clause that also happens to to be worded in a negated manner. For me, the concept of double negative refers strictly to the phenomenon when a single clause contains two (or more) negations with respect to the same referent: Je ne sais pas, Я ничего не знаю, You don't know nothin' [1]. — kashmīrī TALK 15:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
The article describes the example sentence as having the verb "to doubt", but it doesn't. The word "doubt" here is being used as a noun.
Were it a verb, it'd be the "I have (never) not doubted..."
This completely breaks at least 2-3 paragraphs of the article. 2600:1004:B0B2:5D87:3445:9CE0:B615:D0CD ( talk) 16:40, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
It seems to me that an expression like “can’t not” is awkward, in any register of English, in contrast with “cannot but”. To me, “cannot but” is a double negative which is unambiguously a strong positive. TomS TDotO ( talk) 11:07, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
I'm not a linguist, but none of the existing categories seem to describe these double negatives that are pretty common in informal American English (although I am not sure whether they're part of Standard English.) To my ear, they're not uniformly intensifying (in the case of adding "I don't think" to an already negative assertion I would argue it actually softens it.) Is there a word for them? Are they part of a particular variety of English? Are they worth mentioning in the article? 2003:FC:D71D:E9B8:1C99:148A:B611:D0E1 ( talk) 06:08, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
This article uses "doubled negatives" instead of "double negative" three times. Which is correct? Ex in the intro: "In some languages, double negatives cancel one another and produce an affirmative; in other languages, doubled negatives intensify the negation." Should it actually be "...double negatives intensify the negation?" Is this a typo or was it intentional? DivineReality ( talk) 09:31, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
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Double negative article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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How would you describe the extremely common usage "I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't rain today", where the speaker actually means that he or she would not be surprised if it did rain? It seems to me to be a form of double negative (or at any rate of the addition of an unnecessary negative). Any ideas? -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) ( talk) 14:05, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
I don’t think so. In litotes the two negatives cancel each other out. Here one of them is meant and the other one is redundant. — Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) ( talk) 11:50, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
A double negative is a construction occurring when two forms of grammatical negation are used in the same clause, so as to exclude compound sentences, such as: "I didn't tell her that I've never been to Canada" or "Nobody could foresee that so many guests will be unwell", which clearly do not contain double negatives. — kashmīrī TALK 15:15, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
A double negative is syntax including two forms of grammatical negation that apply to the same referent, resulting in an affirmation of the referent. It goes beyond just clauses and can apply, off the top of my head, to predicate verbs ("That can't not work) and to a ADJP (e.g. "She's not unwell"). -- Kent Dominic·(talk) 15:35, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Sirmylesnagopaleentheda: In informal standard spoken English, a negative verb (without a negative meaning) is sometimes used after expressions of doubt or uncertainty, I wonder whether I oughtn't to go and see a doctor - I'm feeling a bit funny. -- Backinstadiums ( talk) 18:20, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
I sense there is a high degree of confusion. The article is not about cases when a negated verb construct is used to express affirmation; nor about cases where a main clause contains a single negation of a subordinate clause that also happens to to be worded in a negated manner. For me, the concept of double negative refers strictly to the phenomenon when a single clause contains two (or more) negations with respect to the same referent: Je ne sais pas, Я ничего не знаю, You don't know nothin' [1]. — kashmīrī TALK 15:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
The article describes the example sentence as having the verb "to doubt", but it doesn't. The word "doubt" here is being used as a noun.
Were it a verb, it'd be the "I have (never) not doubted..."
This completely breaks at least 2-3 paragraphs of the article. 2600:1004:B0B2:5D87:3445:9CE0:B615:D0CD ( talk) 16:40, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
It seems to me that an expression like “can’t not” is awkward, in any register of English, in contrast with “cannot but”. To me, “cannot but” is a double negative which is unambiguously a strong positive. TomS TDotO ( talk) 11:07, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
I'm not a linguist, but none of the existing categories seem to describe these double negatives that are pretty common in informal American English (although I am not sure whether they're part of Standard English.) To my ear, they're not uniformly intensifying (in the case of adding "I don't think" to an already negative assertion I would argue it actually softens it.) Is there a word for them? Are they part of a particular variety of English? Are they worth mentioning in the article? 2003:FC:D71D:E9B8:1C99:148A:B611:D0E1 ( talk) 06:08, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
This article uses "doubled negatives" instead of "double negative" three times. Which is correct? Ex in the intro: "In some languages, double negatives cancel one another and produce an affirmative; in other languages, doubled negatives intensify the negation." Should it actually be "...double negatives intensify the negation?" Is this a typo or was it intentional? DivineReality ( talk) 09:31, 31 October 2023 (UTC)