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Archive 1 |
Tony Iommi's solo project is very much doom metal, but unfortunately the page about him contains the brief blip about his solo stuff. I don't really think the pages should be merged, but just wondered what everybody else thought? I mean, there's plenty of band info and history, and it just gets jumbled into his page atop all the Black Sabbath stuff. Vegetaman 11:05, 15 August 2006 (CST)
It was minimal, but I believe that Black Sabbath's Master of Reality was what spawned a lot of doom metal bands. The detuned guitar and the more midpaced or slower riffs. If I added it in error, I apologize, but I recall reading from awhile back that several artists seem to share this opinion (though I can't seem to find those sources at the moment). Vegetaman 10:30, 15 August 2006 (CST)
Sorry, I know this is pedantic, but I added a couple of things. Firstly, a bit on Stephen O'Malley's influence on drone - this is something of an understatement actually, as it was O'Malley who arguably created drone when he invented the didgeridoo around 2000 years ago(LOL!) with either Burning Witch or Sunn O))) (depending on who you ask), and there has not been a notable drone(LOL!) band since that he hasn't in some way been involved with. He's the godfather of the (sub)genre really.
<img src=" http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/O%29%29%29rly.jpg">
Secondly, I added sludge doom to the "Stylistic Divisions..." section. Whether or not it can be classified as doom metal is a highly contentious issue, but doom-metal.com lists it as so, and reviews albums by sludge bands, so I'm going with it.
Lastly, a small touch: I removed Esoteric from the "Psychedelic Doom" subsection on account of them being more funeral doom in terms of song length and lyrical content, and due to their apparent hatred of the world and everything in it. I can see why they were down as psychedelic doom though; their songs are very "spacey", and the band members openly admit to taking psychotropics listening to their own music, but I don't feel you can have them next to the "groove" of Electric Wizard, Grand Magus, etc. -- Viro
While Carlson arguably created drone(LOL!) with Earth, I feel O'Malley has done more to give the subgenre real credibility(LOL!). I mean, without him, the subgenre wouldn't exist. There would just be Earth, putting out these crazy "one-of-a-kind" records(LOL!). Anderson and Dahlquist deserve credit too, but I was hardly making a list for Chrissakes. And Burning Witch might well be considered proto-drone, but they do sound very, very similar to Khanate, who most would not dispute as drone. Viro 18:37, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Is the band named Cemetary or Cemetery? -- Zoe
Look at this: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_Of_Winter
Never heard of them, and metal-archives doesn't list them either. I'm reluctant to remove it though because the other bands added at the same time were all fine. Can anybody shed any light?
I just rewrote the whole thing, in an attempt to make it more complete. I removed the band list, but instead have given a number of typical examples for each style within the doom metal genre. I think this should be fairly complete now when it comes to the essentials. (written by me, Joost, somewhere in January 2005)
i delete this because stoner doom is not a genere stoner and doom are 2 generes, please fu manchu is a stoner band stoner is more influenced by Rock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.31.142.13 ( talk) 07:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
"Stoner doom" seems to be the same thing as Stoner metal, considering that the bands named in this section occur in the list on Stoner metal. On the other hand, that page says "There also are similarities to doom metal, but most aficionados consider the two genres distinct." Which is accurate? -- Hex 20:53, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Stoner Metal bands hasn't only influences from Doom Metal, so we could distinct Stoner Metal from Stoner/Doom.
Besides, these two genres show psychodelic elements in their works but Stoner rock/metal bands is strongly linked with the "desert rock/metal" scene of early 90's in a Grunge's America.
I added a stub on Confessor but they threaten to delete it because they are "non notable". I'm no fan of them (or doom fan), and it's no big deal to me, but if anyone of you would like to shed some light on the band, then I guess it could be nice. -- KFD 18:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
The article currently contains:
under traditional doom;
under death/doom
under stoner doom. This seems to be phrased rather badly. Any suggestions on how to solve this? Do we need to include these as 'significant borderline cases' at all? Joost 01:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
And how about this? Personally I find this rather far-fetched, and even though this may be an interesting observation by whoever wrote this, to my knowledge there is no such thing as "the four 'waves' of doom metal", which is generally accepted among doom metal fans. Keep or delete? Joost 01:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
If sources can be cited, then it will be included, if not, then they wont be. Ley Shade 10:13, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
This also sounds rather dubious to me. Count Raven are Swedish but are listed as a band that emerged in the West Yorkshire region. Furthermore, Solstice's first demo is from 1992, and Mourn's first demo from 1993 (according to doom-metal.com). Did really any of these bands emerge in the West Yorkshire region in the mid/late 1980s at all? Joost 01:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Stephen O Malley has plenty to do with the genre from 2000 up. Until then, Drone Doom was perfectly fine.
Drone metal and doom metal are hardly the same thing. Why the redirect? -- GreatCthulhu 03:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't know that if that matters but enciclopedia metallum don't consider doom metal as a metal sub-genre, only bands that are side-projects of others metal band or a borderline doom metal band are listed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
201.8.163.51 (
talk)
01:53, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Some bands have also combined elements of black metal with doom metal. By doing this they have created a new subgenre, which could be named Black/Doom by analogy with Death/Doom. Bands like Agalloch, Woods Of Ypres and even some suicidal black metal bands like Forgotten Tomb, Shining and Silencer could be mentioned.
Could Amebix be an early example of Doom Metal?
Am I the only person who finds this article spurious, pretentious and useless. There is not one citation in the whole article and looks like original research most of the time. What next? Happy pop? Old Metal? Harder rock? Blach! Candy 17:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I think that's a ridiculous claim. Anyone moderately versed in heavy metal music would be able to differentiate doom metal as distinct from other genres. It's a term that has been used to refer to bands such as Candlemass and Trouble since long before the many offshoots of the style developed, and remains in common usage. A search for "doom metal" on any given popular search site will yield over one million results, and there are scores of bands that identify themselves with the genre. I will agree, however, that the article does lack citations, but this is easily rectified. Ceeker 12:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Ask any metalhead and he'll confirm the existence of doom metal. And how can you not have "original research" when categorizing music like this? It's not like metal is one giant scientific field. What's next? Punk rock? Feh! Dysfunktion 06:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Candy, your obviosuly not into the emtal underground. Go lsiten to slipknot and leave metal to the metalheads. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.115.27.145 ( talk) 02:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Didn't Trouble always deny that they were a Christian band? Nick227 20:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
While I have heard doom metal with folk influences, folk doom in definitely not a subgenre. Any music called folk doom can easily be paired into another catagory of doom metal
Two bands come to mind: Wyrd which is a mixture of Black and Folk Metal but their newer works went a more Doomish sounding way. Agalloch sounds like a Mixture of Progressive Folk with a minor Doomish influence. Other than that I agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.27.7 ( talk) 08:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
gothic/doom seems to be missing at all. it states clearly that gothic metal is not doom metal, but it forgets the crossover gothic/doom. one could argue that gothic/doom isnt truely doom, but that can be said about every other /doom genre as well. and certainly draconian is /doom. it needs be mentioned· Lygophile has spoken 16:56, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
It's included in article about gothic metal. Nothingagainst 20:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
The assumption is that too few bands end up being purely Gothic Doom enough to satisfy the reasonable purists, I would say. Many other bands would fit much better somewhere else. There are such examples of the style like Left Hand Solution (borderline, but still) and Avrigus, off the top of my head, but just because there are bands in the style at all doesn't automatically justify making a category (humppa metal, anyone?). -- Ruinistis 07:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm up to remove this from Genre misconceptions section:
"The opposite also frequently happens - bands like My dying bride and Opeth are frequently called Death metal bands, when they have far more in common with Doom metal and even Black metal, which is arguably as influental upon modern Doom metal as death metal, possibly more influental. Many think that any bands with growled vocals belong in the death metal category, but death metal is typically very fast, or melodic if it is meodic death metal, and usually features lyrics of gore, death and satanism, whereas doom metal is notably more atmospheric and slower than death metal, and often has lyrics based around either depression, religion and sexuality (the more gothic end of the doom metal spectrum), or based around witchcraft, paganism, pshychadelia and drugs (the more stoner metal end of the spectrum.)"
I think this is really unneeded, out of context and too much based on subjective opinion. Nothingagainst 20:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't feel miserable when listening to Doom Metal, it seems to be a rather short sighted statement that doom metal "invokes an air of darkness misery and despair", darkness doesn't equal despair, many people revel in darkness but are very happy. Feyre 15:45, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Is Pantera`s FLOODS a doom metal track ? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
172.158.231.3 (
talk)
14:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Heaviness has no absolute definition in the context of metal, making the above statement subjective. You might say that doom metal bands typically use lower tunings than other metal genres--which I believe is true--resulting in a perceivably "heavier" sound. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.67.101.37 ( talk) 22:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I was fascinated to see Into The Void as an early example here, shouldn't Electric Funeral be a prime example if any Sabbath material? Just a thought. Revrant ( talk) 03:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Any better sources than urban dictionary? Actually, most of the funeral doom section seems to be in need of good sources as a whole. I can't seem to find any reputable ones to replace with or back up any of the previous statements though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.38.136 ( talk) 00:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Why info about 'Voj' was deleted? It was the one of the first bands played funeral doom and first Soviet funeral doom metal act. Their first demo was released in 1989: http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=124385
Skepticism and others funeral metal bands formed in 1991 and later. 89.163.66.103 ( talk) 08:22, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me the connection between Corrupted and the Funeral Doom subgenre ? Should it be in Sludge instead ? The band's article doesnMt even mention funeral tendencies. zubrowka74 18:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
The article presents Doom Metal the genre as being the Black Sabbath/St. Vitus/Candlemass style and treats everything else as a derivative sub genre. This is misleading because the vast majority of Doom Metal today is of the Death/Doom variety, and that defines the sound of the genre more than anything else. The article should make a distinction between Doom Metal characteristics (slowness, long songs, crushing/depressive mood), and the various incarnations along the years. The Heavy Metal derived version was a sort of 1st wave. Death Doom is arguably the second wave. -- EpsilonVector ( talk) 11:43, 2 October 2011 (UTC)EpsilonVector
Shouldn't someone add at least a short bit about the Maryland/DC Doom scene? It has been a big influence on a lot of bands, and does have its own sound and attitude. Bands like The Obsessed, Wretched, Iron Man, Internal Void, and Revelation sound very different than bands like Reverend Bizarre, Candlemass, Down, and Eyehategod. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.134.167.13 ( talk) 04:34, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
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I'D argue It's even older than that. Screamin' Jay Hawkins specially with I Put A Spell On You and Voodoo are primal earlier examples that show both Doom AND primitive Black Metal.Also how the opening riff from Iron Man (song) s not noted at the too under Black Sabbath is beyond comprehension. Lostinlodos ( talk) 17:01, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
— What's the point? Screamin' Jay Hawkins and The Beatles don't have anything in common even with hard rock, let alone doom metal. Nothingagainst ( talk) 13:24, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
The article wrote: The Beatles' 1969 song " I Want You (She's So Heavy)" is sometimes considered to be the first ever work of doom rock/metal. [1] [2]
References
The reference to the Classic Rock Magazine is without any supporting text, and Allmusic refers to a part of the song about which is said: Also, this song may have inadvertently started doom metal. Sorry, this is to be taken with many grains of salt and does not figure as a reputable source for the claim. -- Zz ( talk) 18:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
— It's totally irrelevant. We are talking here about underground heavy metal genre, mainstream magazines such Classic Rock shouldn't be considered as a valid source at all. And use some common sense: The Beatles weren't even a hard rock band, so they have nothing to do with doom metal. If few notes in minor scale or whatever PART of some song should be considered as "first doom" then we can include some classical music composers or medieval folk music here as "first doom". So what's the point in that? Please keep this article decent. I'm removing the line about The Beatles. Nothingagainst ( talk) 13:38, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
Having reviewed the Guitar World source [1], I concur that the sourcing for this statement is weak; and inclusion in the lead section is WP:UNDUE. Per WP:ONUS, verifiability does not guarantee inclusion. I am removing the sentence from the lead, pending resolution here. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 21:08, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
the burden of proof is on the contributor making the claim. The Classic Rock reference is incomplete; and does not allow the reader to verify the information. The source was still, however, factored into the reasoning above: - One source, of unknown quality, does not provide sufficient support for inclusion of this claim in the lead section of the article. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 19:31, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
— Printed media is only valued over internet sources, but is reliable only when is related to the subject. The problem is that these articles provided here as a sources are not related to the subject. For GitarWorld article is already noticed that it's not genuine research of the doom metal genre, but a list made mainly for entertainment purposes and even about some different subject. Printed or not, but in reality it's just a vague opinion of one person, who's knowledge about doom metal could be questioned, because his article isn't research about doom metal. That being said, the article cannot be taken as a reliable source to support the claim. For Classic Rock magazine, we don't have any text presented to review it, so it cannot be taken as a source. As already suggested, the sentence about The Beatles should be at least removed from the lead section of the page, because there's not enough support. Nothingagainst ( talk) 15:15, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Doom Metal is not a form of Extreme Metal. It is often very close to traditional Heavy Metal and differs very much from Extreme Metal forms like Thrash, Death or Black Metal. Of course there are crossover forms between those genres and Doom Metal, but that is a different story. -- 79.201.111.173 ( talk) 20:05, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
I would say that it depends on the doom metal band and/or the doom metal subgenre. The origins of doom death, for instance, are quite close to death metal; while traditional doom is very far away from it. Inesbc2001 ( talk) 15:52, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
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I recently removed the sections for traditional doom and epic doom, stating "Wholly original research. Neither of the two (weak) citations prove the existence of these genres". User:ABC paulista has re-added them, saying, "Aside from the OR, we have here some good sources. Let's try to find something before removing all. Besides, some sections are in worse condition than these". As per WP:BRD, I'd like it if we could discuss what to do with these sections. We both agree there is a lot of original research for these two sections, but it seems that we disagree with the citations. There are currently five sources between these two sections, so I'll go through each one.
The first does seem to imply that traditional doom has certain influences from 70s metal, while the second does not mention "traditional doom" anywhere in the article. It does, however, say that Reverend Bizarre is a "modern classic" in the genre, but it is original research to attribute the genre "traditional doom" to it. So, we really only have one citation for this section which uses the phrase "traditional English doom Metal". I don't think one single citation with a vague description of what traditional doom is qualifies as due WP:WEIGHT. Dedicating a whole section to what seems to be more of an adjectival description of doom rather than a subgenre of its own seems a bit weak.
The epic doom section now has three sources. While I'd say the same about the first source as I did about traditional doom, that a passing mention isn't WP:WEIGHTy enough, I'm willing to concede that the second source is much better, and perhaps justifies the existence of this subgenre. While I still have qualms that it probably isn't enough, I feel that we can at least improve the sourcing on this later. I do, however, have a problem with the third source, as it does not state the existence of this genre, but instead uses the word "epic" as adjectival description ("... combined massive riffs and dark melodies into songs of epic proportions"). I don't think that this is enough, especially as the Candlemass article, as well as the Epicus Doomicus Metallicus article only use the genre "doom metal" and not "epic doom". — Richard BB 07:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
Simply because there are reliable sources that support such. I don't know if you are aware, but it's very hard to find credible sources that discuss metal in a technical and stylistic way, so we cannot be too strict on the sourcing to avoid being too shallow on the subjects. About the sources, the Traditional Doom subsection has 3, what is more than, lets say, 90% of the metal genres cited in whole wikipedia, and the book Black Sabbath and Philosophy: Mastering Reality is certainly a top 20 best source for a metal subgenre we have here, at least. But, if you are really going to pick on this sourcing, I stonrgly recommend you making a full revolution on the whole Music Porject. I'm sure you'd be really "astonished" with some stuff that you'd find on the Electronic music project. ABC paulista ( talk) 22:22, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Tony Iommi's solo project is very much doom metal, but unfortunately the page about him contains the brief blip about his solo stuff. I don't really think the pages should be merged, but just wondered what everybody else thought? I mean, there's plenty of band info and history, and it just gets jumbled into his page atop all the Black Sabbath stuff. Vegetaman 11:05, 15 August 2006 (CST)
It was minimal, but I believe that Black Sabbath's Master of Reality was what spawned a lot of doom metal bands. The detuned guitar and the more midpaced or slower riffs. If I added it in error, I apologize, but I recall reading from awhile back that several artists seem to share this opinion (though I can't seem to find those sources at the moment). Vegetaman 10:30, 15 August 2006 (CST)
Sorry, I know this is pedantic, but I added a couple of things. Firstly, a bit on Stephen O'Malley's influence on drone - this is something of an understatement actually, as it was O'Malley who arguably created drone when he invented the didgeridoo around 2000 years ago(LOL!) with either Burning Witch or Sunn O))) (depending on who you ask), and there has not been a notable drone(LOL!) band since that he hasn't in some way been involved with. He's the godfather of the (sub)genre really.
<img src=" http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/O%29%29%29rly.jpg">
Secondly, I added sludge doom to the "Stylistic Divisions..." section. Whether or not it can be classified as doom metal is a highly contentious issue, but doom-metal.com lists it as so, and reviews albums by sludge bands, so I'm going with it.
Lastly, a small touch: I removed Esoteric from the "Psychedelic Doom" subsection on account of them being more funeral doom in terms of song length and lyrical content, and due to their apparent hatred of the world and everything in it. I can see why they were down as psychedelic doom though; their songs are very "spacey", and the band members openly admit to taking psychotropics listening to their own music, but I don't feel you can have them next to the "groove" of Electric Wizard, Grand Magus, etc. -- Viro
While Carlson arguably created drone(LOL!) with Earth, I feel O'Malley has done more to give the subgenre real credibility(LOL!). I mean, without him, the subgenre wouldn't exist. There would just be Earth, putting out these crazy "one-of-a-kind" records(LOL!). Anderson and Dahlquist deserve credit too, but I was hardly making a list for Chrissakes. And Burning Witch might well be considered proto-drone, but they do sound very, very similar to Khanate, who most would not dispute as drone. Viro 18:37, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Is the band named Cemetary or Cemetery? -- Zoe
Look at this: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_Of_Winter
Never heard of them, and metal-archives doesn't list them either. I'm reluctant to remove it though because the other bands added at the same time were all fine. Can anybody shed any light?
I just rewrote the whole thing, in an attempt to make it more complete. I removed the band list, but instead have given a number of typical examples for each style within the doom metal genre. I think this should be fairly complete now when it comes to the essentials. (written by me, Joost, somewhere in January 2005)
i delete this because stoner doom is not a genere stoner and doom are 2 generes, please fu manchu is a stoner band stoner is more influenced by Rock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.31.142.13 ( talk) 07:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
"Stoner doom" seems to be the same thing as Stoner metal, considering that the bands named in this section occur in the list on Stoner metal. On the other hand, that page says "There also are similarities to doom metal, but most aficionados consider the two genres distinct." Which is accurate? -- Hex 20:53, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Stoner Metal bands hasn't only influences from Doom Metal, so we could distinct Stoner Metal from Stoner/Doom.
Besides, these two genres show psychodelic elements in their works but Stoner rock/metal bands is strongly linked with the "desert rock/metal" scene of early 90's in a Grunge's America.
I added a stub on Confessor but they threaten to delete it because they are "non notable". I'm no fan of them (or doom fan), and it's no big deal to me, but if anyone of you would like to shed some light on the band, then I guess it could be nice. -- KFD 18:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
The article currently contains:
under traditional doom;
under death/doom
under stoner doom. This seems to be phrased rather badly. Any suggestions on how to solve this? Do we need to include these as 'significant borderline cases' at all? Joost 01:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
And how about this? Personally I find this rather far-fetched, and even though this may be an interesting observation by whoever wrote this, to my knowledge there is no such thing as "the four 'waves' of doom metal", which is generally accepted among doom metal fans. Keep or delete? Joost 01:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
If sources can be cited, then it will be included, if not, then they wont be. Ley Shade 10:13, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
This also sounds rather dubious to me. Count Raven are Swedish but are listed as a band that emerged in the West Yorkshire region. Furthermore, Solstice's first demo is from 1992, and Mourn's first demo from 1993 (according to doom-metal.com). Did really any of these bands emerge in the West Yorkshire region in the mid/late 1980s at all? Joost 01:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Stephen O Malley has plenty to do with the genre from 2000 up. Until then, Drone Doom was perfectly fine.
Drone metal and doom metal are hardly the same thing. Why the redirect? -- GreatCthulhu 03:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't know that if that matters but enciclopedia metallum don't consider doom metal as a metal sub-genre, only bands that are side-projects of others metal band or a borderline doom metal band are listed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
201.8.163.51 (
talk)
01:53, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Some bands have also combined elements of black metal with doom metal. By doing this they have created a new subgenre, which could be named Black/Doom by analogy with Death/Doom. Bands like Agalloch, Woods Of Ypres and even some suicidal black metal bands like Forgotten Tomb, Shining and Silencer could be mentioned.
Could Amebix be an early example of Doom Metal?
Am I the only person who finds this article spurious, pretentious and useless. There is not one citation in the whole article and looks like original research most of the time. What next? Happy pop? Old Metal? Harder rock? Blach! Candy 17:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I think that's a ridiculous claim. Anyone moderately versed in heavy metal music would be able to differentiate doom metal as distinct from other genres. It's a term that has been used to refer to bands such as Candlemass and Trouble since long before the many offshoots of the style developed, and remains in common usage. A search for "doom metal" on any given popular search site will yield over one million results, and there are scores of bands that identify themselves with the genre. I will agree, however, that the article does lack citations, but this is easily rectified. Ceeker 12:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Ask any metalhead and he'll confirm the existence of doom metal. And how can you not have "original research" when categorizing music like this? It's not like metal is one giant scientific field. What's next? Punk rock? Feh! Dysfunktion 06:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Candy, your obviosuly not into the emtal underground. Go lsiten to slipknot and leave metal to the metalheads. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.115.27.145 ( talk) 02:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Didn't Trouble always deny that they were a Christian band? Nick227 20:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
While I have heard doom metal with folk influences, folk doom in definitely not a subgenre. Any music called folk doom can easily be paired into another catagory of doom metal
Two bands come to mind: Wyrd which is a mixture of Black and Folk Metal but their newer works went a more Doomish sounding way. Agalloch sounds like a Mixture of Progressive Folk with a minor Doomish influence. Other than that I agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.27.7 ( talk) 08:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
gothic/doom seems to be missing at all. it states clearly that gothic metal is not doom metal, but it forgets the crossover gothic/doom. one could argue that gothic/doom isnt truely doom, but that can be said about every other /doom genre as well. and certainly draconian is /doom. it needs be mentioned· Lygophile has spoken 16:56, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
It's included in article about gothic metal. Nothingagainst 20:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
The assumption is that too few bands end up being purely Gothic Doom enough to satisfy the reasonable purists, I would say. Many other bands would fit much better somewhere else. There are such examples of the style like Left Hand Solution (borderline, but still) and Avrigus, off the top of my head, but just because there are bands in the style at all doesn't automatically justify making a category (humppa metal, anyone?). -- Ruinistis 07:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm up to remove this from Genre misconceptions section:
"The opposite also frequently happens - bands like My dying bride and Opeth are frequently called Death metal bands, when they have far more in common with Doom metal and even Black metal, which is arguably as influental upon modern Doom metal as death metal, possibly more influental. Many think that any bands with growled vocals belong in the death metal category, but death metal is typically very fast, or melodic if it is meodic death metal, and usually features lyrics of gore, death and satanism, whereas doom metal is notably more atmospheric and slower than death metal, and often has lyrics based around either depression, religion and sexuality (the more gothic end of the doom metal spectrum), or based around witchcraft, paganism, pshychadelia and drugs (the more stoner metal end of the spectrum.)"
I think this is really unneeded, out of context and too much based on subjective opinion. Nothingagainst 20:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't feel miserable when listening to Doom Metal, it seems to be a rather short sighted statement that doom metal "invokes an air of darkness misery and despair", darkness doesn't equal despair, many people revel in darkness but are very happy. Feyre 15:45, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Is Pantera`s FLOODS a doom metal track ? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
172.158.231.3 (
talk)
14:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Heaviness has no absolute definition in the context of metal, making the above statement subjective. You might say that doom metal bands typically use lower tunings than other metal genres--which I believe is true--resulting in a perceivably "heavier" sound. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.67.101.37 ( talk) 22:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I was fascinated to see Into The Void as an early example here, shouldn't Electric Funeral be a prime example if any Sabbath material? Just a thought. Revrant ( talk) 03:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Any better sources than urban dictionary? Actually, most of the funeral doom section seems to be in need of good sources as a whole. I can't seem to find any reputable ones to replace with or back up any of the previous statements though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.38.136 ( talk) 00:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Why info about 'Voj' was deleted? It was the one of the first bands played funeral doom and first Soviet funeral doom metal act. Their first demo was released in 1989: http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=124385
Skepticism and others funeral metal bands formed in 1991 and later. 89.163.66.103 ( talk) 08:22, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me the connection between Corrupted and the Funeral Doom subgenre ? Should it be in Sludge instead ? The band's article doesnMt even mention funeral tendencies. zubrowka74 18:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
The article presents Doom Metal the genre as being the Black Sabbath/St. Vitus/Candlemass style and treats everything else as a derivative sub genre. This is misleading because the vast majority of Doom Metal today is of the Death/Doom variety, and that defines the sound of the genre more than anything else. The article should make a distinction between Doom Metal characteristics (slowness, long songs, crushing/depressive mood), and the various incarnations along the years. The Heavy Metal derived version was a sort of 1st wave. Death Doom is arguably the second wave. -- EpsilonVector ( talk) 11:43, 2 October 2011 (UTC)EpsilonVector
Shouldn't someone add at least a short bit about the Maryland/DC Doom scene? It has been a big influence on a lot of bands, and does have its own sound and attitude. Bands like The Obsessed, Wretched, Iron Man, Internal Void, and Revelation sound very different than bands like Reverend Bizarre, Candlemass, Down, and Eyehategod. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.134.167.13 ( talk) 04:34, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
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I'D argue It's even older than that. Screamin' Jay Hawkins specially with I Put A Spell On You and Voodoo are primal earlier examples that show both Doom AND primitive Black Metal.Also how the opening riff from Iron Man (song) s not noted at the too under Black Sabbath is beyond comprehension. Lostinlodos ( talk) 17:01, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
— What's the point? Screamin' Jay Hawkins and The Beatles don't have anything in common even with hard rock, let alone doom metal. Nothingagainst ( talk) 13:24, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
The article wrote: The Beatles' 1969 song " I Want You (She's So Heavy)" is sometimes considered to be the first ever work of doom rock/metal. [1] [2]
References
The reference to the Classic Rock Magazine is without any supporting text, and Allmusic refers to a part of the song about which is said: Also, this song may have inadvertently started doom metal. Sorry, this is to be taken with many grains of salt and does not figure as a reputable source for the claim. -- Zz ( talk) 18:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
— It's totally irrelevant. We are talking here about underground heavy metal genre, mainstream magazines such Classic Rock shouldn't be considered as a valid source at all. And use some common sense: The Beatles weren't even a hard rock band, so they have nothing to do with doom metal. If few notes in minor scale or whatever PART of some song should be considered as "first doom" then we can include some classical music composers or medieval folk music here as "first doom". So what's the point in that? Please keep this article decent. I'm removing the line about The Beatles. Nothingagainst ( talk) 13:38, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
Having reviewed the Guitar World source [1], I concur that the sourcing for this statement is weak; and inclusion in the lead section is WP:UNDUE. Per WP:ONUS, verifiability does not guarantee inclusion. I am removing the sentence from the lead, pending resolution here. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 21:08, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
the burden of proof is on the contributor making the claim. The Classic Rock reference is incomplete; and does not allow the reader to verify the information. The source was still, however, factored into the reasoning above: - One source, of unknown quality, does not provide sufficient support for inclusion of this claim in the lead section of the article. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 19:31, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
— Printed media is only valued over internet sources, but is reliable only when is related to the subject. The problem is that these articles provided here as a sources are not related to the subject. For GitarWorld article is already noticed that it's not genuine research of the doom metal genre, but a list made mainly for entertainment purposes and even about some different subject. Printed or not, but in reality it's just a vague opinion of one person, who's knowledge about doom metal could be questioned, because his article isn't research about doom metal. That being said, the article cannot be taken as a reliable source to support the claim. For Classic Rock magazine, we don't have any text presented to review it, so it cannot be taken as a source. As already suggested, the sentence about The Beatles should be at least removed from the lead section of the page, because there's not enough support. Nothingagainst ( talk) 15:15, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Doom Metal is not a form of Extreme Metal. It is often very close to traditional Heavy Metal and differs very much from Extreme Metal forms like Thrash, Death or Black Metal. Of course there are crossover forms between those genres and Doom Metal, but that is a different story. -- 79.201.111.173 ( talk) 20:05, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
I would say that it depends on the doom metal band and/or the doom metal subgenre. The origins of doom death, for instance, are quite close to death metal; while traditional doom is very far away from it. Inesbc2001 ( talk) 15:52, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
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I recently removed the sections for traditional doom and epic doom, stating "Wholly original research. Neither of the two (weak) citations prove the existence of these genres". User:ABC paulista has re-added them, saying, "Aside from the OR, we have here some good sources. Let's try to find something before removing all. Besides, some sections are in worse condition than these". As per WP:BRD, I'd like it if we could discuss what to do with these sections. We both agree there is a lot of original research for these two sections, but it seems that we disagree with the citations. There are currently five sources between these two sections, so I'll go through each one.
The first does seem to imply that traditional doom has certain influences from 70s metal, while the second does not mention "traditional doom" anywhere in the article. It does, however, say that Reverend Bizarre is a "modern classic" in the genre, but it is original research to attribute the genre "traditional doom" to it. So, we really only have one citation for this section which uses the phrase "traditional English doom Metal". I don't think one single citation with a vague description of what traditional doom is qualifies as due WP:WEIGHT. Dedicating a whole section to what seems to be more of an adjectival description of doom rather than a subgenre of its own seems a bit weak.
The epic doom section now has three sources. While I'd say the same about the first source as I did about traditional doom, that a passing mention isn't WP:WEIGHTy enough, I'm willing to concede that the second source is much better, and perhaps justifies the existence of this subgenre. While I still have qualms that it probably isn't enough, I feel that we can at least improve the sourcing on this later. I do, however, have a problem with the third source, as it does not state the existence of this genre, but instead uses the word "epic" as adjectival description ("... combined massive riffs and dark melodies into songs of epic proportions"). I don't think that this is enough, especially as the Candlemass article, as well as the Epicus Doomicus Metallicus article only use the genre "doom metal" and not "epic doom". — Richard BB 07:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
Simply because there are reliable sources that support such. I don't know if you are aware, but it's very hard to find credible sources that discuss metal in a technical and stylistic way, so we cannot be too strict on the sourcing to avoid being too shallow on the subjects. About the sources, the Traditional Doom subsection has 3, what is more than, lets say, 90% of the metal genres cited in whole wikipedia, and the book Black Sabbath and Philosophy: Mastering Reality is certainly a top 20 best source for a metal subgenre we have here, at least. But, if you are really going to pick on this sourcing, I stonrgly recommend you making a full revolution on the whole Music Porject. I'm sure you'd be really "astonished" with some stuff that you'd find on the Electronic music project. ABC paulista ( talk) 22:22, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
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