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This SOUNDS like a horrid incident, but this is probably not the whole story. All we see is Mr. Vance's side of the story. What is the "official" response to this? Aynoneemoos 16:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC) Skeptikal
I don't buy it. I've spoken with a guard from Camp Cropper who had dismissed 6 other guards for even the slightest of incidents against prisoners, none of which were, or even came close, to "sleep drepivation" techniques...
-LTC
This whole article is absolute claptrap. People who actually know what went on there are not allowed to speak about it for security reasons. Vance is taking advantage of this fact to make himself into a hero and to line his own pockets. Sincerely - Someone who knows. HealthySkepticism 22:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
The government depends on secrets, and when people step outside and start to expose the corruption their witnessing and talk about the secrets their supposed to keep, the government can and has proved they will destroy you.
This is not true. The Northern District Courts of Illinois where the Case was filed, is probably going to issue an order for discovery. When that happens everyone involved in this case will be known. I've seen copies of the complaint and they already know the names of a lot of people, who are going to testify. Also, I think people keep forgeting that he was an informant for the FBI, so those people that got informed on are going to have answer a lot of questions, then those people will break and inform on others, like dominos it will keep going.-- WriteisRight 03:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
April 26, 2007.
William H. Steele the commander of
Camp Cropper has been charged with "Aiding The Enemy", Having sexual relations fraternizing with a detainees daughter, mishandling classified material, disobeying orders, mishandling government funds.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/26/world/middleeast/26cropper.html
While I believe in a healthy skepticism, the fact remains that an American citizen was detained by the military for 97 days without any kind of due process. How much further his rights were violated remains to be seen but his Constitutionally guaranteed rights were utterly disregarded. Add to that the fact that within 3 weeks the military was informed that he was an FBI informant and even the healthiest of skepticism has to consider the possibility that something dodgy has occurred. Before anyone can remind me that a war is in progress and civil liberties are, thus, duly suspended, let me remind you all: if we are fighting for freedom we shan't find it by denying it to anyone convenient. Concerned06 ( talk) 14:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
This sounds like the military's standard procedure to completely Overreact, when faced with a any problem. They found out that Mr. Vance was a informant for the FBI, and went nuts. Military records which are availible to all visitors to the ACLU website shows that the military has an extreme distrust of any agency of federal law enforcement. They detain his guy for no reason, except to find out what he has been telling them and when they fealt that all their questions have been answered, they let him go. What really concerns me, is the methods they used in order to get those answers, they completely suspended the rule of law in this instance. The prisoners in Cuba had more rights than the ones Mr. vance was given, which is completely against the mission in Iraq, which is to bring freedom to Iraq. We certainly can't lead by example in this instance. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
75.3.143.112 (
talk) 22:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
So the previous opinion was "vacated?" Do we have a reference? Does the general non-JD-holding public know what "en banc" and "vacated" means? Please repair. 66.220.111.155 ( talk) 02:02, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
More specifically, on Talk:Donald_Rumsfeld#Resources_..._regarding_Donald_Vance_and_Nathan_Ertel ... 99.19.47.119 ( talk) 06:32, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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This SOUNDS like a horrid incident, but this is probably not the whole story. All we see is Mr. Vance's side of the story. What is the "official" response to this? Aynoneemoos 16:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC) Skeptikal
I don't buy it. I've spoken with a guard from Camp Cropper who had dismissed 6 other guards for even the slightest of incidents against prisoners, none of which were, or even came close, to "sleep drepivation" techniques...
-LTC
This whole article is absolute claptrap. People who actually know what went on there are not allowed to speak about it for security reasons. Vance is taking advantage of this fact to make himself into a hero and to line his own pockets. Sincerely - Someone who knows. HealthySkepticism 22:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
The government depends on secrets, and when people step outside and start to expose the corruption their witnessing and talk about the secrets their supposed to keep, the government can and has proved they will destroy you.
This is not true. The Northern District Courts of Illinois where the Case was filed, is probably going to issue an order for discovery. When that happens everyone involved in this case will be known. I've seen copies of the complaint and they already know the names of a lot of people, who are going to testify. Also, I think people keep forgeting that he was an informant for the FBI, so those people that got informed on are going to have answer a lot of questions, then those people will break and inform on others, like dominos it will keep going.-- WriteisRight 03:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
April 26, 2007.
William H. Steele the commander of
Camp Cropper has been charged with "Aiding The Enemy", Having sexual relations fraternizing with a detainees daughter, mishandling classified material, disobeying orders, mishandling government funds.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/26/world/middleeast/26cropper.html
While I believe in a healthy skepticism, the fact remains that an American citizen was detained by the military for 97 days without any kind of due process. How much further his rights were violated remains to be seen but his Constitutionally guaranteed rights were utterly disregarded. Add to that the fact that within 3 weeks the military was informed that he was an FBI informant and even the healthiest of skepticism has to consider the possibility that something dodgy has occurred. Before anyone can remind me that a war is in progress and civil liberties are, thus, duly suspended, let me remind you all: if we are fighting for freedom we shan't find it by denying it to anyone convenient. Concerned06 ( talk) 14:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
This sounds like the military's standard procedure to completely Overreact, when faced with a any problem. They found out that Mr. Vance was a informant for the FBI, and went nuts. Military records which are availible to all visitors to the ACLU website shows that the military has an extreme distrust of any agency of federal law enforcement. They detain his guy for no reason, except to find out what he has been telling them and when they fealt that all their questions have been answered, they let him go. What really concerns me, is the methods they used in order to get those answers, they completely suspended the rule of law in this instance. The prisoners in Cuba had more rights than the ones Mr. vance was given, which is completely against the mission in Iraq, which is to bring freedom to Iraq. We certainly can't lead by example in this instance. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
75.3.143.112 (
talk) 22:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
So the previous opinion was "vacated?" Do we have a reference? Does the general non-JD-holding public know what "en banc" and "vacated" means? Please repair. 66.220.111.155 ( talk) 02:02, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
More specifically, on Talk:Donald_Rumsfeld#Resources_..._regarding_Donald_Vance_and_Nathan_Ertel ... 99.19.47.119 ( talk) 06:32, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Donald Vance. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:02, 12 September 2017 (UTC)