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Thank you again to Malke 2010 and Bzuk for vastly improving this article. It really looks professional now!
2. The article should probably be moved to "Don R. Berlin". That's how he's named in his NYT obit and that's how he signed his correspondence when he was chief engineer at Curtiss-Wright and how he's referred to by a C-W test pilot in this 1939 Saturday Evening Post article. (Find another example here from 1962 when he was an exec at Boeing Vertol !).
3. I don't have full access to the NYT obit (I'm a cheapskate), but it probably has info the article needs like DOB and POB (the college yearbook only said he was "from" Brook, Ind., not necessarily born there). He also has a bio at ANB online which I don't have access to either.
4. I cannot understand why he is not enshrined in the National Aviation Hall of Fame, though the Wayne Johnson piece mentions he's been nominated. Did the problems with the Curtiss Helldiver leave a bad taste in too many mouths? His P-40 alone, imho, is a greater contribution than that of astronauts and other enshrinees I've never heard of (though I'd stipulate that my opinion is not an expert opinion).
Onward and upward. -- 108.45.72.196 ( talk) 00:32, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
My contention is that the definition of sobriquet states: "a descriptive name or epithet : nickname, also: a humorous epithet, assumed name, or nickname." I concede that many dictionary definitions do define it as simply a person's nickname. The wikipedia article uses the term more broadly. In the case of this article, the "Berlin hairlift" is a joke based on the use of the colloquial name for the blockade and airlift, "The Berlin Airlift", as opposed to a more formal or official teminology or title. FWiW Bzuk ( talk) 00:13, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Bzuk, can you do a thorough review of this image so we can be sure who's in it and when it was taken? First we thought Berlin was the man in the dark suit in the middle; now, I don't think Berlin is in the photo at all. One reason: Berlin was a very tall man, as you can see from the photo of him getting the cert from the FAA guy, standing in front of the helicopter in 1962. In our "Curtiss execs" image, however, he's the shortest of the four! Unlikely it's him. I put Herbert O. Fisher in the caption, redlinked, because I think he deserves his own article—he's the only civilian pilot to ever receive the USAAF’s Air Medal—and in his leather flying helmet and goggles he looks like John Belushi! Fisher is pointing to Curtiss's 15,000th fighter (not just P-40's but all fighters), decorated with decals of all 28 countries that were flying the plane. The 15,000th came off the Buffalo assembly-line on Wednesday, November 22, 1944 (the press release doesn't give the year but in 1944, Nov. 22 fell on a Wednesday). -- 108.45.72.196 ( talk) 17:05, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Here's the evidence that confirms that the man pointing is Herb Fisher: P-47 Thunderbolt Pilots Association: Herbert O. Fisher. Herb needs his own article. -- 108.45.72.196 ( talk) 03:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
IMHO, there is enough to do an article on Herb Fisher. FWiW Bzuk ( talk) 19:53, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Check out this photo of vice-president and general manager of the Curtiss Aeroplane Division of the Curtiss-Wright Corporation, Burdette S. Wright. He looks much like Fisher but would likely be the man in a photo of Curtiss company executives. See: 1940 Photo source. FWiW Bzuk ( talk) 19:28, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
This article contains serious errors in design attribution. Don Berlin was a great aircraft designer but this article attributes him with the design of several aircraft which he had little or nothing to do with the creation of. Following the Fischer XP-75 and XP-75A disasters Don Berlin did continue in the airplane industry. He did have significant administrative talents and influence. It is, however, wrong to attribute him with being responsible for the designs of the F3H, XF-88, and XF-85 as well as helicopters deigned by Piasecki. The project engineer on the XF-88 was Edward M. "Bud" Flesh who was assisted by Herman Barkey. Herman Barkey was responsible for the XF-85, and F3H, as well as the F-101 and F4H. Piasecki Helicopter Corporation was a classic example of a talented engineer who was overwhelmed by the growth of his creation into a significant business which required essential administrative and financial abilities which the great and innovative helicopter designer lacked. After he was deposed, for sound business reasons, Frank Piasecki want on to found Piasecki Aircraft which created a number of interesting aircraft from the Piasecki VZ-8 Airgeep to the Piasecki Turais air launched UAV. Frank Paisecki died in 2008.
Perhaps the original creator of this article would desire to make the necessary changes.
Mark Lincoln ( talk) 18:27, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Don R. Berlin article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Thank you again to Malke 2010 and Bzuk for vastly improving this article. It really looks professional now!
2. The article should probably be moved to "Don R. Berlin". That's how he's named in his NYT obit and that's how he signed his correspondence when he was chief engineer at Curtiss-Wright and how he's referred to by a C-W test pilot in this 1939 Saturday Evening Post article. (Find another example here from 1962 when he was an exec at Boeing Vertol !).
3. I don't have full access to the NYT obit (I'm a cheapskate), but it probably has info the article needs like DOB and POB (the college yearbook only said he was "from" Brook, Ind., not necessarily born there). He also has a bio at ANB online which I don't have access to either.
4. I cannot understand why he is not enshrined in the National Aviation Hall of Fame, though the Wayne Johnson piece mentions he's been nominated. Did the problems with the Curtiss Helldiver leave a bad taste in too many mouths? His P-40 alone, imho, is a greater contribution than that of astronauts and other enshrinees I've never heard of (though I'd stipulate that my opinion is not an expert opinion).
Onward and upward. -- 108.45.72.196 ( talk) 00:32, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
My contention is that the definition of sobriquet states: "a descriptive name or epithet : nickname, also: a humorous epithet, assumed name, or nickname." I concede that many dictionary definitions do define it as simply a person's nickname. The wikipedia article uses the term more broadly. In the case of this article, the "Berlin hairlift" is a joke based on the use of the colloquial name for the blockade and airlift, "The Berlin Airlift", as opposed to a more formal or official teminology or title. FWiW Bzuk ( talk) 00:13, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Bzuk, can you do a thorough review of this image so we can be sure who's in it and when it was taken? First we thought Berlin was the man in the dark suit in the middle; now, I don't think Berlin is in the photo at all. One reason: Berlin was a very tall man, as you can see from the photo of him getting the cert from the FAA guy, standing in front of the helicopter in 1962. In our "Curtiss execs" image, however, he's the shortest of the four! Unlikely it's him. I put Herbert O. Fisher in the caption, redlinked, because I think he deserves his own article—he's the only civilian pilot to ever receive the USAAF’s Air Medal—and in his leather flying helmet and goggles he looks like John Belushi! Fisher is pointing to Curtiss's 15,000th fighter (not just P-40's but all fighters), decorated with decals of all 28 countries that were flying the plane. The 15,000th came off the Buffalo assembly-line on Wednesday, November 22, 1944 (the press release doesn't give the year but in 1944, Nov. 22 fell on a Wednesday). -- 108.45.72.196 ( talk) 17:05, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Here's the evidence that confirms that the man pointing is Herb Fisher: P-47 Thunderbolt Pilots Association: Herbert O. Fisher. Herb needs his own article. -- 108.45.72.196 ( talk) 03:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
IMHO, there is enough to do an article on Herb Fisher. FWiW Bzuk ( talk) 19:53, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Check out this photo of vice-president and general manager of the Curtiss Aeroplane Division of the Curtiss-Wright Corporation, Burdette S. Wright. He looks much like Fisher but would likely be the man in a photo of Curtiss company executives. See: 1940 Photo source. FWiW Bzuk ( talk) 19:28, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
This article contains serious errors in design attribution. Don Berlin was a great aircraft designer but this article attributes him with the design of several aircraft which he had little or nothing to do with the creation of. Following the Fischer XP-75 and XP-75A disasters Don Berlin did continue in the airplane industry. He did have significant administrative talents and influence. It is, however, wrong to attribute him with being responsible for the designs of the F3H, XF-88, and XF-85 as well as helicopters deigned by Piasecki. The project engineer on the XF-88 was Edward M. "Bud" Flesh who was assisted by Herman Barkey. Herman Barkey was responsible for the XF-85, and F3H, as well as the F-101 and F4H. Piasecki Helicopter Corporation was a classic example of a talented engineer who was overwhelmed by the growth of his creation into a significant business which required essential administrative and financial abilities which the great and innovative helicopter designer lacked. After he was deposed, for sound business reasons, Frank Piasecki want on to found Piasecki Aircraft which created a number of interesting aircraft from the Piasecki VZ-8 Airgeep to the Piasecki Turais air launched UAV. Frank Paisecki died in 2008.
Perhaps the original creator of this article would desire to make the necessary changes.
Mark Lincoln ( talk) 18:27, 5 May 2024 (UTC)