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This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Opera, a group writing and editing Wikipedia articles on operas, opera terminology, opera composers and librettists, singers, designers, directors and managers, companies and houses, publications and recordings. The project discussion page is a place to talk about issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!OperaWikipedia:WikiProject OperaTemplate:WikiProject OperaOpera articles
A fact from Doktor Johannes Faust appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 June 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Not a full review, just a comment: do we need to squeeze three facts into this one hook? To me, as someone who is not remotely interested in opera, the best hook here would end after "based on a puppet play about the Faust topic" – we don't need to lengthen the hook with unnecessary details. As a casual reader, I don't really care where or when it premiered, and I especially don't care who the director was. But an opera based on a puppet play? That's interesting. I would click to read more. I know you like long hooks, Gerda, but this one would be great if it were shorter.
97198 (
talk)
13:42, 19 May 2020 (UTC)reply
So you would miss two things I found much more interesting: that it was one of the successes under the Nazi regime (which possibly wanted puppet play rather the
Goethe's literature), and that Felsenstein, known worldwide for his later socialist stagings in East Berlin's
Komische Oper Berlin (1947 to 1975), was part of such a thing. I did not know that! As your preferred fact is at the beginning, I see nothing wrong presenting something which may fascinate others also. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
14:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC)reply
If you believe more than 1% of DYK's audience will recognise his name, make that connection, and find it fascinating – I think you may be disappointed.
97198 (
talk)
13:40, 22 May 2020 (UTC)reply
It becomes less hooky when you add extra waffle, is the issue. And it could leave the audience confused. This is another one where there are clearly lots and lots of interesting facets, but an overwhelming majority of people know nothing about opera to appreciate them. Are you willing to propose another hook, Gerda? I'll happily review it then :)
Kingsif (
talk)
00:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Just a comment, but I think
User:97198's advice is sound and strongly recommend
User:Gerda Arendt to heed. Mentioning the director's name without context will go over the heads of almost all readers. It would be different in the body of an article, but on the front page of Wikipedia we
can't assume any background knowledge beyond basic English. Too many relative clauses makes for a clunky sentence. That an opera was premiered by an opera company is not a surprising fact, though it is worth mentioning. The connection to a puppet play is the most surprising fact to a lay reader. So the grammar of the hook should swap what it highlights as the main fact and what it considers incidental. I'd greatly prefer
The current phrasing hides the hooky fact, though, treating the puppet show like a side note to the fact it premiered. And a premiere merely happening is not hooky.
Kingsif (
talk)
17:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I reviewed
Template:Did you know nominations/Julian Wylie. I am not sure that being based on a medieval puppet play (not show) is hooky, while a premiere in Nazi Germany seems more exciting to me, but am too tired to fight.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Opera, a group writing and editing Wikipedia articles on operas, opera terminology, opera composers and librettists, singers, designers, directors and managers, companies and houses, publications and recordings. The project discussion page is a place to talk about issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!OperaWikipedia:WikiProject OperaTemplate:WikiProject OperaOpera articles
A fact from Doktor Johannes Faust appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 June 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Not a full review, just a comment: do we need to squeeze three facts into this one hook? To me, as someone who is not remotely interested in opera, the best hook here would end after "based on a puppet play about the Faust topic" – we don't need to lengthen the hook with unnecessary details. As a casual reader, I don't really care where or when it premiered, and I especially don't care who the director was. But an opera based on a puppet play? That's interesting. I would click to read more. I know you like long hooks, Gerda, but this one would be great if it were shorter.
97198 (
talk)
13:42, 19 May 2020 (UTC)reply
So you would miss two things I found much more interesting: that it was one of the successes under the Nazi regime (which possibly wanted puppet play rather the
Goethe's literature), and that Felsenstein, known worldwide for his later socialist stagings in East Berlin's
Komische Oper Berlin (1947 to 1975), was part of such a thing. I did not know that! As your preferred fact is at the beginning, I see nothing wrong presenting something which may fascinate others also. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
14:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC)reply
If you believe more than 1% of DYK's audience will recognise his name, make that connection, and find it fascinating – I think you may be disappointed.
97198 (
talk)
13:40, 22 May 2020 (UTC)reply
It becomes less hooky when you add extra waffle, is the issue. And it could leave the audience confused. This is another one where there are clearly lots and lots of interesting facets, but an overwhelming majority of people know nothing about opera to appreciate them. Are you willing to propose another hook, Gerda? I'll happily review it then :)
Kingsif (
talk)
00:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Just a comment, but I think
User:97198's advice is sound and strongly recommend
User:Gerda Arendt to heed. Mentioning the director's name without context will go over the heads of almost all readers. It would be different in the body of an article, but on the front page of Wikipedia we
can't assume any background knowledge beyond basic English. Too many relative clauses makes for a clunky sentence. That an opera was premiered by an opera company is not a surprising fact, though it is worth mentioning. The connection to a puppet play is the most surprising fact to a lay reader. So the grammar of the hook should swap what it highlights as the main fact and what it considers incidental. I'd greatly prefer
The current phrasing hides the hooky fact, though, treating the puppet show like a side note to the fact it premiered. And a premiere merely happening is not hooky.
Kingsif (
talk)
17:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I reviewed
Template:Did you know nominations/Julian Wylie. I am not sure that being based on a medieval puppet play (not show) is hooky, while a premiere in Nazi Germany seems more exciting to me, but am too tired to fight.