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Isn't this more descriptive of a US/Canadian(?) PhD? Part 1 coursework, part 2 research? A quick read through the conditions in other countries below shows that most of them appear to require a bachelors with honours/masters or equivalent (e.g. mature students) _before_ starting a PhD? dmcg026 00:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
"Medical schools may offer research Ph.D. degrees in conjunction with their M.D. programs, although an M.D. by itself is frequently enough to teach medicine."
Should be polished - perhaps elaborate on MD/PhD programs? An MD is always "enough" to practice medicine. Maybe mention the advantages of earning a research oriented PhD in conjunction with earning an MD.
In the modern world, it indicates an individual who went back to school because they were unable to get a real job. Typical PhDs do not like this pointed out in public, and tend to edit out comments such as this one.
Omitted the above. :-)))
(My Ph.D. was awarded only after I was sufficiently motivated, by Jimbo, to finish the dissertation; my finishing was a condition of my employment and got me a raise. So there!)
Hey, all the above being said, the article should probably contain some information about the notion of the perpetual student and the envy and contempt of overeducated people on the part of some other people, such as the person who wrote the above. The page should also probably be located on Doctor of Philosophy. -- Larry Sanger, Ph.D.
Mention should perhaps also be made of the contempt of undereducated people on the part of some Ph.D's ! ;-) -- Seb
Ahem -- I worked "real jobs" and taught while working on my PhD. I've worked in Telecom, dotcoms,and regulatory jobs, as well as food service and other crap money jobs. i have a PhD because it's a prerequisite for teaching at a university level and pretty useful for competing to teach at community colleges. Many of the people I went to grad school with also have similar real world experience. I suggest that the person above may not know his ass from his elbow, and my need anal-cranial separation therapy... JHK
Ph.D's don't exist just in english speaking countries - it's used all over the world. Local variants are commonly translated to Ph.D when they are comparable with the international convention. I didn't change the article because I didn't know how to refrase it properly. -- Tbackstr
I think in other countries they are usually just called "Doctor", abbreviated as Dr., or "Doctor of medicine", "Doctor of natural sciences" etc. The general use of the Philosophy label is only used in English speaking countries I believe. By the way, do engineers get a Ph.D.? --AxelBoldt (Yes engineers can get a PhD Drkirkby 10:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC))
I know that with some luck I'm going to get my Ph.D or D.Sc. (Doctor of Science) in a few years in a non-english speaking country ( Finland). However, the question of which one I'll get, Ph.D. or D.Sc., is still a bit diffuse for me, since I'm an engineer. Tbackstr In England at least, one gets a PhD for a fairily narrow bit single research. Althought highly desirable to do so, it is not actually necessary in England at least to publish any scientific papers as part of a PhD. The DSc in comparision requires the publication of a large number of papers Drkirkby 10:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Since you're a Wikipedian the following doesn't apply to you.....
Would it be worth splitting the information up into more regional sections? A lot of the current stuff is slightly inaccurate when applied to the UK, for instance. cferrero Yes, I felt that too. For example the bit "...in others such as engineering or geology, a doctoral degree is considered desirable but not essential for employment. " Actually, in many cases in England being a Chartered Engineer is more desirable for employment than a PhD. Drkirkby 10:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps. Also to be considered is that grad student and this article have a lot of overlap in content (although not authorship) and should perhaps be reworked concurrently? -- zandperl 02:12, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I am reminded of the student who after getting his "Permanent Head Damage" announced to his professor he was starting work on a second Phd. When asked why, he replied "Any idiot can get just one Phd"!
I added a description here yesterday on the procedure of a Swedish doctoral disputation. Today somebody added "and Egypt" to this text. It is quite possible that Egyptian universities have the practice of a public defense, but is really the procedure and terminology identical? Unless this can be corroborated, I will remove Egypt from the present context. / up◦land 11:46, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I moved this from the PhD page proper, thinking it was more proper to the talk page: "This article failed to explain in layman's language the difference between a PhD by Research and one where it involves a lot of course work In the US, it is PhD by rigid coursework and research for dissertation; in Germany, Japan and Canada is it by rigid PhD by research with chosen coursework??? PLease it will be nice if you can work on this." --(moved by) EuropracBHIT 03:51, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC).
after reading all the negative I am shocked! I am holdin a Ph.D d. Master in Indust. Psych. and it took a long time hard work and I am not sorry for it! So anyone who wants to go for it...you do need a brain ;-)))) not just words! [Comment at 19:56, 1 Jun 2005 by User:217.185.243.9 ]
The article currently says this:
"Philosophy was, however, considered the lowest of the faculties, and the Ph.D. died out in many universities".
Can anyone prove this? If the article is referring to philosophy prior to the Enlightenment then it is surely mistaken as all educated "philosophers" prior to this time were also working in the natural sciences and the arts; think of the ancient athenians who contributed to several fields of knowledge and likewise so did many of the Enlightenment theorists (such as Rousseau who wrote novels, studied nature and wrote political philosophy; or Francis Bacon who amongst other things wrote novels, painted and contributed toward science. So, that sentence: "Philosophy was, however, considered the lowest of the faculties, and the Ph.D. died out in many universities". It is plainly wrong. It is impossible to prove. Consequently, I will remove it.-- CJ 1 July 2005 09:37 (UTC)
I feel that this article could do with a bit more one how one might go about applying for and carrying out a Ph.D. — Chameleon 13:39, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
That's a great idea, but based on the above discussion (esp. by cferrero), I have a feeling that the processes may well be country- and course-specific. In Australia, the principal pre-requisite is a Bachelor degree.... having said that, the paradox was started a few years ago when the combined MD/PhD course was introduced, permitting students straight out of high school to apply for this course.
Perhaps we can start to discuss how one goes about obtaining their particular doctorates in their countries? Steph, 25 January 2006
The external links are, entirely, inappropriate. There is a references section and if these links are not actually cited or citable for this article, they are here merely to attrack clicks. Therefore, they are spam. - James Howard ( talk/ web) 14:51, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
It seems rather ludicrous to actually use this type of designation. Although I can understand intellectually why one would want to do so, it seems disingenuous since probably the most important parts of the PHD is the dissertation. I would suggest then that we could use the designation; PHD(ABE), All But Education.
For better or worse, it's commonplace. If one look in job ads for faculty members one sees "PhD, or ABD expected to finish by August" (or similar language) in a great many ads. However, when I see someone sign a letter with something like PhD (ABD), and it's clear that they left school decades ago and have no intention of ever finishing, I wonder who they think they're impressing. Being ABD is little different from having a M.S., it seems to me. JJL 20:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Hello all. I was just reviewing the article about Jan Hendrik Schön, and his scandal involving his post-doctoral work. As far as I know, this is the first time someone has been deprived of their degree of Doctor of Philosophy due to scandals unrelated to their work as a graduate student. At any rate, does anyone have any comment about adding a section on revoked PhDs? - Steph (yes, PhD), 25 January 2006
Boston U. considered doing this for Martin Luther King, Jr.'s doctorate based on charges of plagiarism, but decided against it: Martin Luther King, Jr. authorship issues. But, revoking a Ph.D. is so rare that I don't think it needs a special section--if anything, it should be under degrees in general, not doctoral degrees in particular. JJL 16:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Does someone know the difference between the term "Ph.D. student" and "Ph.D. candidate"? Is there a difference? I'm asking this, because i don't know which term to write on my webpage. I have not undertake the first year quals yet. Thanks for any comments! 66.36.152.79 01:17, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
It probably varies by school; where I am, if you're enrolled in a PhD programme, you're either/both a PhD student and a PhD candidate. Exploding Boy 03:10, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
It is possible to be awarded a "PhD with distinction" in Australia. Is this different grading of the degree conferred in other countries? Steph, 14 Feb 2005.
There are no "grades" of PhD in the UK/Australia/NZ - simple pass/fail (although Masters degrees may be awarded as a half-fail) - but in Europe "cum laude" etc. can be found frequently (e.g. Germany, Netherlands, Hungary, Spain) dmcg026 00:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
While there are no "grades" of Ph.D. in the UK, having the examiners accept the thesis without requiring any corrections is viewed -- unofficially -- as a particular honor. (Most successful candidates have their theses accepted subject to their making some minor corrections.)
How about some content like the way that Ph.D. requirements, etc. vary from country to country and also (if possible) how many Ph.D.s each country has. I hear india has the most. savidan (talk) (e@) 19:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
15 years? That is almost unheard of as far as I can tell. In my field 5-7 is the norm, and my friends in other fields report similar times. 10 years is very long in almost any program (in the US, anyway). In fact, at my school (and at least two other US schools that I've checked) there is an absolute 10-year time limit. If you (or anyone else) knows of some sort of empirical data to support any of this, let me know. - Nick talk 05:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC) There was a Prof at University College London who told me his part-time PhD took 14 years. He was not the mosy dynamic person I ever knew it must be said. No idea where he got the PhD from. Note I did not write the bit about the 15 years, so my knowing of someone taking 14 years is a bit more evidence that they can take a long time.
How many pages would a sci/math dissertation typically amount to? Or can a dissertation be really short just as long as the ideas presented are impressive/unique?
There are separate articles for Doctor of Philosophy and Doctorate. Neither article explains the difference. There is a section in Thesis on oral defenses, yet this article also contains a large section on the same topic. Exploding Boy 04:30, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
In several wikipedia articles I've been watching, I've started to notice that international differences are causing articles to become confusing. This is one of those articles. In the US, a PhD means one thing. In the UK, it has other meanings and requirements. In Australia, yet another meaning. Every english speaking country (that would be using the EN version of wikipedia) has a different take on exactly what "doctor of philosophy" is. As such, I suggest that this article be re-written so that it is sectioned by country. Much of the info in this article is interesting, but irrelevant to people in other countries. For example, there is a very common 10-year limit in the US for finishing a PhD. I believe americans would want to know that, and that europeans would want to know that PhDs can take much longer in their academic system. Rather than stating a vague "it can take between 4-15 years to finish a PhD," I think the readers would be better served by seeing sections that pertain to their countries, and reading information that is more specfic. Those readers who are interested in a broader perspective will certainly read the other sections. Thoughts? - Nick talk 06:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Why does this page include discussion of PhD programs other than philosophy? It seems like only the introductory section ought to be present in this article; the rest should be relegated to a general PhD article that this one could link to.
(:lol. Badgerpatrol 23:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC))
"In the British-patterned universities, the Ph.D. program is much shorter because the coursework component is assigned to the masters' and bachelors' degrees, and the Ph.D. course is concerned purely with research for a thesis."
This makes it sound like it's a given that a PhD student might will have done both a undergraduate and post-graduate qualification. While for the funding bodies this is the accepted model, many mature (and self-funders) students will undertake a Phd without doing a Masters'.
That was me above - the article is a bit of a mess and frankly I'm not sure it can be saved in it's current form. It's such a mish-mash of different systems that anyone reading it is likely to get entirely confused about which country does what.
-- Charlesknight 08:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
In that case, I agree. The bulk of the article needs dividing by region. In Canada, being accepted to a PhD program implies completion of a related Master's degree, or, in exceptional cases, an Honours BA (which is different from a BA Hons in the UK, as far as I know). In addition, there is a requirement for some coursework, and for completion of comprehensive examinations in addition to the thesis defence (viva). Exploding Boy 15:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
In the UK, it's still pretty much the model that the thesis is the start, middle and the end of it. No classes or examination (some universities have a process where you provide a progress update at the end of the first year but it's pretty much it). To confuse matters further - many are now adopting a model where instead of producing a thesis - the student will produce four inter-relating research papers and those are classified as the thesis.
-- Charlesknight 16:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Well I've reorganised the page to bring it more in line with the Graduate school article, so feel free to get in there and clarify. Exploding Boy 16:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I have deleted totally the following and I will explain why here.
In the British-patterned universities, the Ph.D. program is much shorter because the coursework component is assigned to the masters' and bachelors' degrees, and the Ph.D. course is concerned purely with research for a thesis. The target time is nominally three years, but some students finish earlier, and many take a few years longer. The actual time depends strongly on the discipline being studied.
This is rubbish for the reasons already discussed - while the funding councils are moving towards a model where they want applications to apply for Masters' funding and Ph.D. funding at the same time, there is no "assignment" of coursework to the masters' - it's not actually a requirement to do a masters' before a Ph.D.
British-style bachelors' degrees do not usually require a broad liberal arts and sciences general education component and students are therefore free to concentrate solely on their chosen discipline. The bachelors' degree, if conferred with a high level of 'honours' (i.e. excellent grades), can allow admission to a Ph.D. program without having to first write a masters' thesis. This route is only possible if the university offers an 'honours year' in the field of study, though this is becoming increasingly common due to the greater funding that universities receive for enrolling doctoral students.
This is complete rubbish from start to finish. I have never heard of a british university having a "honours year" - virtually every degree awarded now in the UK has honours attached to it. In theory you can just walk after completing all of your modules and just get (for example) a BA but in practice everyone does their final assignment/project/disseration and gets their honours. The "honours" bit is no indication of excellent grades - you can get a 2:2 and still graduate with a BA(Hons)!
-- Charlesknight 16:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I'll take a stab when I get back - X-men 3 calls :)
-- Charlesknight 16:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
The honours year refers to old practice when everyone started an ordinary degree and only some did an an additional yearto get an honours degree. Now everyone does the honours degree course. RalphHinton 12:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This article has gone through quite a few permutations in the past year. But it seems that the result has been left rather thin on US-specific info. I mean, only two sentences on TA/RA funding? It's sad to see we've actually LOST good information from this article.
Also, in response to the commenter below, regarding the PhD(ABD) designation, I can understand why someone would find it objectionable for someone else to use the designation. I understand, but think that the objection to using it is kind of irrelevant for inclusion in the Wiki. The fact is, people DO use it. Google for PhD (ABD) and you'll find hundreds of attestations. It's quite freequently encountered on applications when grad students apply for jobs before they finish their degree. Given the fact that it's in regular usage, it seems to me that it would useful to explain what it means.
An early draft of this article had a short explanation, along the lines of:
"PhD (ABD)" is not a formal degree, but an occasionally used shorthand for "All But Dissertation". It is an informal designation that the student has completed all doctoral coursework, cumulative and/or qualifying examinations, research proposal and screenings, if required, and has been admitted to formal Candidacy for the PhD, with only the completion of the Dissertation remaining before earning the degree.
It seems to me a brief explanation like that would place it in its proper context, providing information to the reader, while making it clear that it's not a degree, which seems to be crux of some of the objection to using it.
In the article, I wrote that some US Ph.D. programs can have as low as a 1-2% acceptance rate. I do not know the average acceptance rate (if anyone does know, please add it to the article), but I do know that in my area (psychology), a 1-2% acceptance rate is low, but does happen. Somewhere I have a guide to graduate study in psychology published by the American Psychological Association, and I do know that some schools' clinical psychology programs admit 4-6 people from a pool of almost 300. In my program (social psychology at Arizona State University) we admit 2-5 people from a pool of ~125 applicants. I do recognize, however, that many programs are not as competitive (other psychology programs in our department admit 2-3 people but only have about 20 applicants). Also, many people apply to multiple schools, so the odds that any one individual will be admitted to at least one program is fairly high. - Nick talk 01:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I feel this article should discuss Honorary Ph. D. s and the people who generally recieve them.-- Trick man01 05:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Phd had been widely used in popular culture, particulary in the US, for the adrivated term pretty huge dick. This usage has been seen in the sitcom Friends and on Scrubs. Think outside the box 15:51, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Translating the names of non-English doctor's degres as a Ph.D. is plainly wrong IMHO. I agree that a French title of "Docteur" or any German "Doktor" title are equivalent in academic standing to an Anglo-American Ph.D, but the specific designation "Doctor of Philosophy" is simply not used in non-English speaking countries, or rather is used only in a narrow set of fields. In Germany for example, one can get a Dr.phil. degree in certain humanities special(i)ties, while in other areas, different titles (e.g. Dr.-Ing., Dr.rer.nat., Dr.rer.pol., Dr.med., etc...) are used instead and should be translated accordingly . A comparative description of doctoral programs worldwide belongs in the Doctorate article, but not in this particular article, which should be about the Anglo-American Doctor of Philosophy only and the different requirements to obtain it in the US, the UK, Canada, Australia, etc. I have accordingly removed all references to Brazil in the PhD article and moved them to the Doctorate article. The same should be done with references to doctorates in France. . Mbruno 12:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC) ~
It is not true that all PhD program(me)s in the UK require no formal coursework. In the Cambridge engineering department for example, first-year PhD students are required to take classes (at least two 16-lecture modules from Part II-B of the engineering tripos or advanced graduate reading clubs) and pass the respective written examinations for the modules taken with satisfactory marks. They are also expected to attend research skills classes and submit a first-year research report that is similar in nature to the thesis proposal in the U.S and must contain a review of the literature, identification of the problem to be addressed, and timetables/methodology for the completion of the research. At the end of the first year, there is a formal assessment of the student´s performance based on his/her results on the written exams and the first-year report. The assessment normally involves also a formal progress meeting with the student's supervisor and a second faculty member. Depending on the assessment, the student is allowed to register as a PhD candidate, or alternatively is recommended for enrol(l)ment in a research master's degree course (MSc). or asked to leave the university (normally with a certificate of postgraduate studies or a lower MPhil degree). The normal time for completion of a PhD dissertation, at least in Cambridge engineering, is 4 years, including the previously described first probationary year. That is slightly longer BTW than in other disciplines, where no coursework is required and most students write the dissertation in 3 years only. Source: [2] 200.177.48.218 09:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
IMO, the bit about Ivy League is unnecessary and--perhaps--incorrect. In my field, almost every research institution (there are about 200) in the U.S. provides financial support in the form of waivers and stipends. Furthermore, I can imagine -some- fields of study at Harvard which do not typically provide financial support.
I'm hesitant to change this myself, since I'm not 100% sure about the Ivy Leagues' funding policies. Please chime in and edit the article accordingly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.61.82.140 ( talk) 14:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC).
This page has been hacked. If you look on the page, you'll see the phrase "In most HELLO MY NAME IS BOB typically consist of..." in the second paragraph.
I tried to fix this in the "edit" section, but the original wording still appears there.
Very odd, and probably should be fixed by someone who knows what's going on.
216.106.8.195 21:10, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Schwnj has arbitrarily reverted my changes which reflect history and worldwide positions. They may have needed more work and we can talk about it, but not deleted arbitrarily. RalphHinton 13:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
(UTC)
Thanks everyone, I just wanted to not start an edit war. I agree I was worried by the anonymous users changes. It would have helped if edit comments had been entered. Sorry if I implicated Schwnj/Nick too much. I should have put my additions in lower sections and I will continue trying to do this. RalphHinton 13:42, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I tried to tidy the references section a little tonight, adding the publication date for the text "How to Get a Ph.D." by Phillips and Pugh, and giving this source its ISBN. I have also added a reference to an article by Dinham and Scott (2001) that appeared in the "Journal of Further and Higher Education" that is relevant to this subject. Please note that the ISSN which I gave for this journal is only for the printed form; it has a different ISSN in its online version. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 20:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I have proposed that PhD Candidate be merged into this article. Is there any objections? -- Kannie | talk 03:01, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
I am a PhD student in the UK and have always read that 'PhD' is an informal abbreviation but every candidate should know that 'Ph.D.' is the correct form for formal uses. The British/American distinction seems overly simplified if not plain wrong. 82.42.207.235 ( talk) 17:10, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Should these be included in some way? [3] which is a diploma mill [4] but some unexpected people have their 'degrees'.-- Doug Weller ( talk) 10:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
The section in this this article "Training for Supervisors" seems to be a bit off topic. What does everyone think about it? Keep, shorten, remove? - Nick talk 22:06, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
As the person who created this section, you may be interested to know my thoughts. You may notice, if you look at the history of these Discussion pages, I raised the need for the article to cover training for Ph.D. supervision. However, if you feel that this is not the focal point of the article covered here, perhaps a new article "Doctoral supervision" (or words to that effect) could be created. The section as it appears here could then be shortened, and be preceded by a sub-heading saying "Main article: Doctoral supervision". Alternatively, this could go in an existing article in Wikipedia on a topic to do with higher education. I really think that the section belongs in Wikipedia somewhere - the question which is now opened to discussion is "Where"? ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 22:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
RemoveThe section doesn't seem to fit. How many Universities actually require mentors to be trained? Is this a universally accepted practice or only limited to a few universities? Is this thought just the opinion of a few authors? Demantos ( talk) 15:29, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I say remove also. This is really an off topic section. A link, say in a "see also" section, to an appropriate article would not be out of place. -- C S ( talk) 11:57, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
This message is to the anonymous editor adding the info about PhD students being slaves, etc. Please note that one of the major rules of Wikipedia is it's Neutral Point of View policy. This means that everything must be written in a neutral tone. The language you added is far from neutral and reflects a clear opinion on your part, for example:
In addition, some of the things you mention are patently incorrect. For example:
Overall, your additions demonstrate a clear POV. I think it would be useful to include some things about jobs and funding, but the things you wrote simply won't do. I think you should rewrite them in the most objective, neutral way possible and add them to the appropriate country section, also taking into account the differences among programs, schools, and fields of study. Until then, your additions will continue to be reverted by the various editors of wikipedia (and a few automated scripts that will prevent multiple reversions). - Nick talk 04:05, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
The article has been semi-protected for a week. Please use the talk page to discuss contentious edits. Spartaz Humbug! 06:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Although philosophia has classical Greek origins, the abbreviation PhD is short for the Latin philosophiae doctor, because Latin was the language used by the mediaeval scholars, and by the older universities (eg Oxford, Cambridge, etc) in the names of their degrees (eg magister in artibus, doctor divinitatis). I'll modify Greek → Latin in the opening sentence of this article if nobody has any objections. -- Nicholas Jackson ( talk) 09:34, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
I was under the impression that it really stood for Post-honoris Doctor
The article currently says, completion of a Ph.D. program usually takes four to eight years of study after the Bachelor's Degree for the United States. According to the NSF's 2006 report on U.S. doctorates, the figures are rather higher. Counting only registered semesters (e.g. not counting a year taken off to work as part of the time), the median is a little over 7 years for science and engineering, and just over 8 years for the humanities. That's the median, so half take longer. If you count total elapsed time from entering a PhD program to graduating ( wall clock time, as we say in CS), the medians are much higher: 9 years for science & engineering, and 15 years for the humanities. -- Delirium ( talk) 10:57, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
The Juris Doctor is a Harvard degree developed in the 20th century. Please correct the History part that establishes that the JD was an award before the 20th century —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.45.37.175 ( talk) 22:23, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
In the history section is says: "From the United States the degree spread to Canada in 1900, and then to the United Kingdom in 1917.[5] This displaced the existing Doctor of Philosophy degree in some universities." This suggest there is a distinction between 'the degree' and 'Doctor of Philosophy degree', but no distinction has been made. (The article is a disambiguation of 'D.Phil.') I would suggest modifying that line to: "From the United States the title Ph.D. spread to Canada in 1900, and then to the United Kingdom in 1917." Quantum liam ( talk) 11:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm in two minds about mentioning the German abbreviation Dr.Phil. On the one hand, I feel it maybe should be included as it's the correct abbreviation for the German degree of Doctor of Philosophy, and since this article does have a section about German practice (which currently does list the Dr.Phil. abbreviation) perhaps it should also be ok to mention Dr.Phil. at the beginning of the article. (Also, I understand there's an American television personality called Dr Phil, and from time to time someone thinks it's funny to include a reference to him. Included a proprly-cited reference to the genuine abbreviation Dr.Phil. might stop this happening in future.) On the other hand, I don't feel anywhere near strongly about it to get into a prolonged or heated argument, so if other people have good reasons why it should be omitted then I'm entirely happy to go along with them. I'll tentatively restore it, pending further discussion, but won't push the point if anyone wants to revert. -- Nicholas Jackson ( talk) 11:51, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
what's up with the Value and criticisms section? I see criticisms but practically nothing about value, it is currently written as if doing a PhD will ruin your life, but i'm sure it has some value. some ideas:
- -- Hypo Mix ( talk) 05:28, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I trimmed it some more and started with the value. The point of a PhD is rarely the financial return to the student, so it seemed inappropriate to begin with this. I think the section is a much better representation than when it started with a much wider set of references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chogg ( talk • contribs) 00:39, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
i think that image should be removed because it does not show PhD students, it show batch. or at highest masters student.... makes it looks like hundreds of people get PhD every graduation ceremony. agree? -- Hypo Mix ( talk) 03:36, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Actually just realized the section has been changed since i first comment on it, take my last comment with a grain of salt.-- Hypo Mix ( talk) 01:05, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
As well as all this, the realisation that 'pre-2000 data' is perhaps pretty close to being out of date makes me feel old! Benson85 ( talk) 23:29, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
Found this article http://mobile.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/08/what_is_the_value_of_a_science_phd_is_graduate_school_worth_the_effort_.html It is a good summery of the benefits of a PhD. I'll dump it here for now. -- Hypo Mix ( talk) 12:58, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
It's confusing to have Doctorate and PhD, I would be inclined to merge them. If merging is not appropriate, I would still consider some partial merging, as for instance both articles maintain a list of the use in each country... but many of those uses are copied from one another, having to maintain two descriptions of the same thing (see for instance the Spain section in both articles, where one is more updated than the other). -- Samer.hc ( talk) 14:37, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
The article lacks of information about the funding given by public organizations (CONICET, ANPCYT, public universities) to the students, which permits full dedication to them. The amount of funding during the last years ("Kirchnerists" governments) was significatively increased respect to the amount given by previous administrations, at the point that the number of phd students funded by the State increased by the factor of 2-3 in a few years (and this is one of the major items when the government wants to praise itself). This also is a matter of debate in the present times, given that the amount of funding has rached a plateau, and as a consequence, a lot of applicants (who growed the hope of being employed as phd students when graduated) are being rejected in the recent applications (2011 and 2012). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.135.31.242 ( talk) 22:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Isn't this more descriptive of a US/Canadian(?) PhD? Part 1 coursework, part 2 research? A quick read through the conditions in other countries below shows that most of them appear to require a bachelors with honours/masters or equivalent (e.g. mature students) _before_ starting a PhD? dmcg026 00:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
"Medical schools may offer research Ph.D. degrees in conjunction with their M.D. programs, although an M.D. by itself is frequently enough to teach medicine."
Should be polished - perhaps elaborate on MD/PhD programs? An MD is always "enough" to practice medicine. Maybe mention the advantages of earning a research oriented PhD in conjunction with earning an MD.
In the modern world, it indicates an individual who went back to school because they were unable to get a real job. Typical PhDs do not like this pointed out in public, and tend to edit out comments such as this one.
Omitted the above. :-)))
(My Ph.D. was awarded only after I was sufficiently motivated, by Jimbo, to finish the dissertation; my finishing was a condition of my employment and got me a raise. So there!)
Hey, all the above being said, the article should probably contain some information about the notion of the perpetual student and the envy and contempt of overeducated people on the part of some other people, such as the person who wrote the above. The page should also probably be located on Doctor of Philosophy. -- Larry Sanger, Ph.D.
Mention should perhaps also be made of the contempt of undereducated people on the part of some Ph.D's ! ;-) -- Seb
Ahem -- I worked "real jobs" and taught while working on my PhD. I've worked in Telecom, dotcoms,and regulatory jobs, as well as food service and other crap money jobs. i have a PhD because it's a prerequisite for teaching at a university level and pretty useful for competing to teach at community colleges. Many of the people I went to grad school with also have similar real world experience. I suggest that the person above may not know his ass from his elbow, and my need anal-cranial separation therapy... JHK
Ph.D's don't exist just in english speaking countries - it's used all over the world. Local variants are commonly translated to Ph.D when they are comparable with the international convention. I didn't change the article because I didn't know how to refrase it properly. -- Tbackstr
I think in other countries they are usually just called "Doctor", abbreviated as Dr., or "Doctor of medicine", "Doctor of natural sciences" etc. The general use of the Philosophy label is only used in English speaking countries I believe. By the way, do engineers get a Ph.D.? --AxelBoldt (Yes engineers can get a PhD Drkirkby 10:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC))
I know that with some luck I'm going to get my Ph.D or D.Sc. (Doctor of Science) in a few years in a non-english speaking country ( Finland). However, the question of which one I'll get, Ph.D. or D.Sc., is still a bit diffuse for me, since I'm an engineer. Tbackstr In England at least, one gets a PhD for a fairily narrow bit single research. Althought highly desirable to do so, it is not actually necessary in England at least to publish any scientific papers as part of a PhD. The DSc in comparision requires the publication of a large number of papers Drkirkby 10:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Since you're a Wikipedian the following doesn't apply to you.....
Would it be worth splitting the information up into more regional sections? A lot of the current stuff is slightly inaccurate when applied to the UK, for instance. cferrero Yes, I felt that too. For example the bit "...in others such as engineering or geology, a doctoral degree is considered desirable but not essential for employment. " Actually, in many cases in England being a Chartered Engineer is more desirable for employment than a PhD. Drkirkby 10:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps. Also to be considered is that grad student and this article have a lot of overlap in content (although not authorship) and should perhaps be reworked concurrently? -- zandperl 02:12, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I am reminded of the student who after getting his "Permanent Head Damage" announced to his professor he was starting work on a second Phd. When asked why, he replied "Any idiot can get just one Phd"!
I added a description here yesterday on the procedure of a Swedish doctoral disputation. Today somebody added "and Egypt" to this text. It is quite possible that Egyptian universities have the practice of a public defense, but is really the procedure and terminology identical? Unless this can be corroborated, I will remove Egypt from the present context. / up◦land 11:46, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I moved this from the PhD page proper, thinking it was more proper to the talk page: "This article failed to explain in layman's language the difference between a PhD by Research and one where it involves a lot of course work In the US, it is PhD by rigid coursework and research for dissertation; in Germany, Japan and Canada is it by rigid PhD by research with chosen coursework??? PLease it will be nice if you can work on this." --(moved by) EuropracBHIT 03:51, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC).
after reading all the negative I am shocked! I am holdin a Ph.D d. Master in Indust. Psych. and it took a long time hard work and I am not sorry for it! So anyone who wants to go for it...you do need a brain ;-)))) not just words! [Comment at 19:56, 1 Jun 2005 by User:217.185.243.9 ]
The article currently says this:
"Philosophy was, however, considered the lowest of the faculties, and the Ph.D. died out in many universities".
Can anyone prove this? If the article is referring to philosophy prior to the Enlightenment then it is surely mistaken as all educated "philosophers" prior to this time were also working in the natural sciences and the arts; think of the ancient athenians who contributed to several fields of knowledge and likewise so did many of the Enlightenment theorists (such as Rousseau who wrote novels, studied nature and wrote political philosophy; or Francis Bacon who amongst other things wrote novels, painted and contributed toward science. So, that sentence: "Philosophy was, however, considered the lowest of the faculties, and the Ph.D. died out in many universities". It is plainly wrong. It is impossible to prove. Consequently, I will remove it.-- CJ 1 July 2005 09:37 (UTC)
I feel that this article could do with a bit more one how one might go about applying for and carrying out a Ph.D. — Chameleon 13:39, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
That's a great idea, but based on the above discussion (esp. by cferrero), I have a feeling that the processes may well be country- and course-specific. In Australia, the principal pre-requisite is a Bachelor degree.... having said that, the paradox was started a few years ago when the combined MD/PhD course was introduced, permitting students straight out of high school to apply for this course.
Perhaps we can start to discuss how one goes about obtaining their particular doctorates in their countries? Steph, 25 January 2006
The external links are, entirely, inappropriate. There is a references section and if these links are not actually cited or citable for this article, they are here merely to attrack clicks. Therefore, they are spam. - James Howard ( talk/ web) 14:51, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
It seems rather ludicrous to actually use this type of designation. Although I can understand intellectually why one would want to do so, it seems disingenuous since probably the most important parts of the PHD is the dissertation. I would suggest then that we could use the designation; PHD(ABE), All But Education.
For better or worse, it's commonplace. If one look in job ads for faculty members one sees "PhD, or ABD expected to finish by August" (or similar language) in a great many ads. However, when I see someone sign a letter with something like PhD (ABD), and it's clear that they left school decades ago and have no intention of ever finishing, I wonder who they think they're impressing. Being ABD is little different from having a M.S., it seems to me. JJL 20:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Hello all. I was just reviewing the article about Jan Hendrik Schön, and his scandal involving his post-doctoral work. As far as I know, this is the first time someone has been deprived of their degree of Doctor of Philosophy due to scandals unrelated to their work as a graduate student. At any rate, does anyone have any comment about adding a section on revoked PhDs? - Steph (yes, PhD), 25 January 2006
Boston U. considered doing this for Martin Luther King, Jr.'s doctorate based on charges of plagiarism, but decided against it: Martin Luther King, Jr. authorship issues. But, revoking a Ph.D. is so rare that I don't think it needs a special section--if anything, it should be under degrees in general, not doctoral degrees in particular. JJL 16:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Does someone know the difference between the term "Ph.D. student" and "Ph.D. candidate"? Is there a difference? I'm asking this, because i don't know which term to write on my webpage. I have not undertake the first year quals yet. Thanks for any comments! 66.36.152.79 01:17, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
It probably varies by school; where I am, if you're enrolled in a PhD programme, you're either/both a PhD student and a PhD candidate. Exploding Boy 03:10, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
It is possible to be awarded a "PhD with distinction" in Australia. Is this different grading of the degree conferred in other countries? Steph, 14 Feb 2005.
There are no "grades" of PhD in the UK/Australia/NZ - simple pass/fail (although Masters degrees may be awarded as a half-fail) - but in Europe "cum laude" etc. can be found frequently (e.g. Germany, Netherlands, Hungary, Spain) dmcg026 00:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
While there are no "grades" of Ph.D. in the UK, having the examiners accept the thesis without requiring any corrections is viewed -- unofficially -- as a particular honor. (Most successful candidates have their theses accepted subject to their making some minor corrections.)
How about some content like the way that Ph.D. requirements, etc. vary from country to country and also (if possible) how many Ph.D.s each country has. I hear india has the most. savidan (talk) (e@) 19:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
15 years? That is almost unheard of as far as I can tell. In my field 5-7 is the norm, and my friends in other fields report similar times. 10 years is very long in almost any program (in the US, anyway). In fact, at my school (and at least two other US schools that I've checked) there is an absolute 10-year time limit. If you (or anyone else) knows of some sort of empirical data to support any of this, let me know. - Nick talk 05:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC) There was a Prof at University College London who told me his part-time PhD took 14 years. He was not the mosy dynamic person I ever knew it must be said. No idea where he got the PhD from. Note I did not write the bit about the 15 years, so my knowing of someone taking 14 years is a bit more evidence that they can take a long time.
How many pages would a sci/math dissertation typically amount to? Or can a dissertation be really short just as long as the ideas presented are impressive/unique?
There are separate articles for Doctor of Philosophy and Doctorate. Neither article explains the difference. There is a section in Thesis on oral defenses, yet this article also contains a large section on the same topic. Exploding Boy 04:30, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
In several wikipedia articles I've been watching, I've started to notice that international differences are causing articles to become confusing. This is one of those articles. In the US, a PhD means one thing. In the UK, it has other meanings and requirements. In Australia, yet another meaning. Every english speaking country (that would be using the EN version of wikipedia) has a different take on exactly what "doctor of philosophy" is. As such, I suggest that this article be re-written so that it is sectioned by country. Much of the info in this article is interesting, but irrelevant to people in other countries. For example, there is a very common 10-year limit in the US for finishing a PhD. I believe americans would want to know that, and that europeans would want to know that PhDs can take much longer in their academic system. Rather than stating a vague "it can take between 4-15 years to finish a PhD," I think the readers would be better served by seeing sections that pertain to their countries, and reading information that is more specfic. Those readers who are interested in a broader perspective will certainly read the other sections. Thoughts? - Nick talk 06:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Why does this page include discussion of PhD programs other than philosophy? It seems like only the introductory section ought to be present in this article; the rest should be relegated to a general PhD article that this one could link to.
(:lol. Badgerpatrol 23:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC))
"In the British-patterned universities, the Ph.D. program is much shorter because the coursework component is assigned to the masters' and bachelors' degrees, and the Ph.D. course is concerned purely with research for a thesis."
This makes it sound like it's a given that a PhD student might will have done both a undergraduate and post-graduate qualification. While for the funding bodies this is the accepted model, many mature (and self-funders) students will undertake a Phd without doing a Masters'.
That was me above - the article is a bit of a mess and frankly I'm not sure it can be saved in it's current form. It's such a mish-mash of different systems that anyone reading it is likely to get entirely confused about which country does what.
-- Charlesknight 08:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
In that case, I agree. The bulk of the article needs dividing by region. In Canada, being accepted to a PhD program implies completion of a related Master's degree, or, in exceptional cases, an Honours BA (which is different from a BA Hons in the UK, as far as I know). In addition, there is a requirement for some coursework, and for completion of comprehensive examinations in addition to the thesis defence (viva). Exploding Boy 15:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
In the UK, it's still pretty much the model that the thesis is the start, middle and the end of it. No classes or examination (some universities have a process where you provide a progress update at the end of the first year but it's pretty much it). To confuse matters further - many are now adopting a model where instead of producing a thesis - the student will produce four inter-relating research papers and those are classified as the thesis.
-- Charlesknight 16:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Well I've reorganised the page to bring it more in line with the Graduate school article, so feel free to get in there and clarify. Exploding Boy 16:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I have deleted totally the following and I will explain why here.
In the British-patterned universities, the Ph.D. program is much shorter because the coursework component is assigned to the masters' and bachelors' degrees, and the Ph.D. course is concerned purely with research for a thesis. The target time is nominally three years, but some students finish earlier, and many take a few years longer. The actual time depends strongly on the discipline being studied.
This is rubbish for the reasons already discussed - while the funding councils are moving towards a model where they want applications to apply for Masters' funding and Ph.D. funding at the same time, there is no "assignment" of coursework to the masters' - it's not actually a requirement to do a masters' before a Ph.D.
British-style bachelors' degrees do not usually require a broad liberal arts and sciences general education component and students are therefore free to concentrate solely on their chosen discipline. The bachelors' degree, if conferred with a high level of 'honours' (i.e. excellent grades), can allow admission to a Ph.D. program without having to first write a masters' thesis. This route is only possible if the university offers an 'honours year' in the field of study, though this is becoming increasingly common due to the greater funding that universities receive for enrolling doctoral students.
This is complete rubbish from start to finish. I have never heard of a british university having a "honours year" - virtually every degree awarded now in the UK has honours attached to it. In theory you can just walk after completing all of your modules and just get (for example) a BA but in practice everyone does their final assignment/project/disseration and gets their honours. The "honours" bit is no indication of excellent grades - you can get a 2:2 and still graduate with a BA(Hons)!
-- Charlesknight 16:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I'll take a stab when I get back - X-men 3 calls :)
-- Charlesknight 16:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
The honours year refers to old practice when everyone started an ordinary degree and only some did an an additional yearto get an honours degree. Now everyone does the honours degree course. RalphHinton 12:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This article has gone through quite a few permutations in the past year. But it seems that the result has been left rather thin on US-specific info. I mean, only two sentences on TA/RA funding? It's sad to see we've actually LOST good information from this article.
Also, in response to the commenter below, regarding the PhD(ABD) designation, I can understand why someone would find it objectionable for someone else to use the designation. I understand, but think that the objection to using it is kind of irrelevant for inclusion in the Wiki. The fact is, people DO use it. Google for PhD (ABD) and you'll find hundreds of attestations. It's quite freequently encountered on applications when grad students apply for jobs before they finish their degree. Given the fact that it's in regular usage, it seems to me that it would useful to explain what it means.
An early draft of this article had a short explanation, along the lines of:
"PhD (ABD)" is not a formal degree, but an occasionally used shorthand for "All But Dissertation". It is an informal designation that the student has completed all doctoral coursework, cumulative and/or qualifying examinations, research proposal and screenings, if required, and has been admitted to formal Candidacy for the PhD, with only the completion of the Dissertation remaining before earning the degree.
It seems to me a brief explanation like that would place it in its proper context, providing information to the reader, while making it clear that it's not a degree, which seems to be crux of some of the objection to using it.
In the article, I wrote that some US Ph.D. programs can have as low as a 1-2% acceptance rate. I do not know the average acceptance rate (if anyone does know, please add it to the article), but I do know that in my area (psychology), a 1-2% acceptance rate is low, but does happen. Somewhere I have a guide to graduate study in psychology published by the American Psychological Association, and I do know that some schools' clinical psychology programs admit 4-6 people from a pool of almost 300. In my program (social psychology at Arizona State University) we admit 2-5 people from a pool of ~125 applicants. I do recognize, however, that many programs are not as competitive (other psychology programs in our department admit 2-3 people but only have about 20 applicants). Also, many people apply to multiple schools, so the odds that any one individual will be admitted to at least one program is fairly high. - Nick talk 01:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I feel this article should discuss Honorary Ph. D. s and the people who generally recieve them.-- Trick man01 05:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Phd had been widely used in popular culture, particulary in the US, for the adrivated term pretty huge dick. This usage has been seen in the sitcom Friends and on Scrubs. Think outside the box 15:51, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Translating the names of non-English doctor's degres as a Ph.D. is plainly wrong IMHO. I agree that a French title of "Docteur" or any German "Doktor" title are equivalent in academic standing to an Anglo-American Ph.D, but the specific designation "Doctor of Philosophy" is simply not used in non-English speaking countries, or rather is used only in a narrow set of fields. In Germany for example, one can get a Dr.phil. degree in certain humanities special(i)ties, while in other areas, different titles (e.g. Dr.-Ing., Dr.rer.nat., Dr.rer.pol., Dr.med., etc...) are used instead and should be translated accordingly . A comparative description of doctoral programs worldwide belongs in the Doctorate article, but not in this particular article, which should be about the Anglo-American Doctor of Philosophy only and the different requirements to obtain it in the US, the UK, Canada, Australia, etc. I have accordingly removed all references to Brazil in the PhD article and moved them to the Doctorate article. The same should be done with references to doctorates in France. . Mbruno 12:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC) ~
It is not true that all PhD program(me)s in the UK require no formal coursework. In the Cambridge engineering department for example, first-year PhD students are required to take classes (at least two 16-lecture modules from Part II-B of the engineering tripos or advanced graduate reading clubs) and pass the respective written examinations for the modules taken with satisfactory marks. They are also expected to attend research skills classes and submit a first-year research report that is similar in nature to the thesis proposal in the U.S and must contain a review of the literature, identification of the problem to be addressed, and timetables/methodology for the completion of the research. At the end of the first year, there is a formal assessment of the student´s performance based on his/her results on the written exams and the first-year report. The assessment normally involves also a formal progress meeting with the student's supervisor and a second faculty member. Depending on the assessment, the student is allowed to register as a PhD candidate, or alternatively is recommended for enrol(l)ment in a research master's degree course (MSc). or asked to leave the university (normally with a certificate of postgraduate studies or a lower MPhil degree). The normal time for completion of a PhD dissertation, at least in Cambridge engineering, is 4 years, including the previously described first probationary year. That is slightly longer BTW than in other disciplines, where no coursework is required and most students write the dissertation in 3 years only. Source: [2] 200.177.48.218 09:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
IMO, the bit about Ivy League is unnecessary and--perhaps--incorrect. In my field, almost every research institution (there are about 200) in the U.S. provides financial support in the form of waivers and stipends. Furthermore, I can imagine -some- fields of study at Harvard which do not typically provide financial support.
I'm hesitant to change this myself, since I'm not 100% sure about the Ivy Leagues' funding policies. Please chime in and edit the article accordingly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.61.82.140 ( talk) 14:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC).
This page has been hacked. If you look on the page, you'll see the phrase "In most HELLO MY NAME IS BOB typically consist of..." in the second paragraph.
I tried to fix this in the "edit" section, but the original wording still appears there.
Very odd, and probably should be fixed by someone who knows what's going on.
216.106.8.195 21:10, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Schwnj has arbitrarily reverted my changes which reflect history and worldwide positions. They may have needed more work and we can talk about it, but not deleted arbitrarily. RalphHinton 13:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
(UTC)
Thanks everyone, I just wanted to not start an edit war. I agree I was worried by the anonymous users changes. It would have helped if edit comments had been entered. Sorry if I implicated Schwnj/Nick too much. I should have put my additions in lower sections and I will continue trying to do this. RalphHinton 13:42, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I tried to tidy the references section a little tonight, adding the publication date for the text "How to Get a Ph.D." by Phillips and Pugh, and giving this source its ISBN. I have also added a reference to an article by Dinham and Scott (2001) that appeared in the "Journal of Further and Higher Education" that is relevant to this subject. Please note that the ISSN which I gave for this journal is only for the printed form; it has a different ISSN in its online version. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 20:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I have proposed that PhD Candidate be merged into this article. Is there any objections? -- Kannie | talk 03:01, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
I am a PhD student in the UK and have always read that 'PhD' is an informal abbreviation but every candidate should know that 'Ph.D.' is the correct form for formal uses. The British/American distinction seems overly simplified if not plain wrong. 82.42.207.235 ( talk) 17:10, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Should these be included in some way? [3] which is a diploma mill [4] but some unexpected people have their 'degrees'.-- Doug Weller ( talk) 10:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
The section in this this article "Training for Supervisors" seems to be a bit off topic. What does everyone think about it? Keep, shorten, remove? - Nick talk 22:06, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
As the person who created this section, you may be interested to know my thoughts. You may notice, if you look at the history of these Discussion pages, I raised the need for the article to cover training for Ph.D. supervision. However, if you feel that this is not the focal point of the article covered here, perhaps a new article "Doctoral supervision" (or words to that effect) could be created. The section as it appears here could then be shortened, and be preceded by a sub-heading saying "Main article: Doctoral supervision". Alternatively, this could go in an existing article in Wikipedia on a topic to do with higher education. I really think that the section belongs in Wikipedia somewhere - the question which is now opened to discussion is "Where"? ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 22:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
RemoveThe section doesn't seem to fit. How many Universities actually require mentors to be trained? Is this a universally accepted practice or only limited to a few universities? Is this thought just the opinion of a few authors? Demantos ( talk) 15:29, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I say remove also. This is really an off topic section. A link, say in a "see also" section, to an appropriate article would not be out of place. -- C S ( talk) 11:57, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
This message is to the anonymous editor adding the info about PhD students being slaves, etc. Please note that one of the major rules of Wikipedia is it's Neutral Point of View policy. This means that everything must be written in a neutral tone. The language you added is far from neutral and reflects a clear opinion on your part, for example:
In addition, some of the things you mention are patently incorrect. For example:
Overall, your additions demonstrate a clear POV. I think it would be useful to include some things about jobs and funding, but the things you wrote simply won't do. I think you should rewrite them in the most objective, neutral way possible and add them to the appropriate country section, also taking into account the differences among programs, schools, and fields of study. Until then, your additions will continue to be reverted by the various editors of wikipedia (and a few automated scripts that will prevent multiple reversions). - Nick talk 04:05, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
The article has been semi-protected for a week. Please use the talk page to discuss contentious edits. Spartaz Humbug! 06:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Although philosophia has classical Greek origins, the abbreviation PhD is short for the Latin philosophiae doctor, because Latin was the language used by the mediaeval scholars, and by the older universities (eg Oxford, Cambridge, etc) in the names of their degrees (eg magister in artibus, doctor divinitatis). I'll modify Greek → Latin in the opening sentence of this article if nobody has any objections. -- Nicholas Jackson ( talk) 09:34, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
I was under the impression that it really stood for Post-honoris Doctor
The article currently says, completion of a Ph.D. program usually takes four to eight years of study after the Bachelor's Degree for the United States. According to the NSF's 2006 report on U.S. doctorates, the figures are rather higher. Counting only registered semesters (e.g. not counting a year taken off to work as part of the time), the median is a little over 7 years for science and engineering, and just over 8 years for the humanities. That's the median, so half take longer. If you count total elapsed time from entering a PhD program to graduating ( wall clock time, as we say in CS), the medians are much higher: 9 years for science & engineering, and 15 years for the humanities. -- Delirium ( talk) 10:57, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
The Juris Doctor is a Harvard degree developed in the 20th century. Please correct the History part that establishes that the JD was an award before the 20th century —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.45.37.175 ( talk) 22:23, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
In the history section is says: "From the United States the degree spread to Canada in 1900, and then to the United Kingdom in 1917.[5] This displaced the existing Doctor of Philosophy degree in some universities." This suggest there is a distinction between 'the degree' and 'Doctor of Philosophy degree', but no distinction has been made. (The article is a disambiguation of 'D.Phil.') I would suggest modifying that line to: "From the United States the title Ph.D. spread to Canada in 1900, and then to the United Kingdom in 1917." Quantum liam ( talk) 11:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm in two minds about mentioning the German abbreviation Dr.Phil. On the one hand, I feel it maybe should be included as it's the correct abbreviation for the German degree of Doctor of Philosophy, and since this article does have a section about German practice (which currently does list the Dr.Phil. abbreviation) perhaps it should also be ok to mention Dr.Phil. at the beginning of the article. (Also, I understand there's an American television personality called Dr Phil, and from time to time someone thinks it's funny to include a reference to him. Included a proprly-cited reference to the genuine abbreviation Dr.Phil. might stop this happening in future.) On the other hand, I don't feel anywhere near strongly about it to get into a prolonged or heated argument, so if other people have good reasons why it should be omitted then I'm entirely happy to go along with them. I'll tentatively restore it, pending further discussion, but won't push the point if anyone wants to revert. -- Nicholas Jackson ( talk) 11:51, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
what's up with the Value and criticisms section? I see criticisms but practically nothing about value, it is currently written as if doing a PhD will ruin your life, but i'm sure it has some value. some ideas:
- -- Hypo Mix ( talk) 05:28, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I trimmed it some more and started with the value. The point of a PhD is rarely the financial return to the student, so it seemed inappropriate to begin with this. I think the section is a much better representation than when it started with a much wider set of references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chogg ( talk • contribs) 00:39, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
i think that image should be removed because it does not show PhD students, it show batch. or at highest masters student.... makes it looks like hundreds of people get PhD every graduation ceremony. agree? -- Hypo Mix ( talk) 03:36, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Actually just realized the section has been changed since i first comment on it, take my last comment with a grain of salt.-- Hypo Mix ( talk) 01:05, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
As well as all this, the realisation that 'pre-2000 data' is perhaps pretty close to being out of date makes me feel old! Benson85 ( talk) 23:29, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
Found this article http://mobile.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/08/what_is_the_value_of_a_science_phd_is_graduate_school_worth_the_effort_.html It is a good summery of the benefits of a PhD. I'll dump it here for now. -- Hypo Mix ( talk) 12:58, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
It's confusing to have Doctorate and PhD, I would be inclined to merge them. If merging is not appropriate, I would still consider some partial merging, as for instance both articles maintain a list of the use in each country... but many of those uses are copied from one another, having to maintain two descriptions of the same thing (see for instance the Spain section in both articles, where one is more updated than the other). -- Samer.hc ( talk) 14:37, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
The article lacks of information about the funding given by public organizations (CONICET, ANPCYT, public universities) to the students, which permits full dedication to them. The amount of funding during the last years ("Kirchnerists" governments) was significatively increased respect to the amount given by previous administrations, at the point that the number of phd students funded by the State increased by the factor of 2-3 in a few years (and this is one of the major items when the government wants to praise itself). This also is a matter of debate in the present times, given that the amount of funding has rached a plateau, and as a consequence, a lot of applicants (who growed the hope of being employed as phd students when graduated) are being rejected in the recent applications (2011 and 2012). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.135.31.242 ( talk) 22:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC)